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Photo shows New Jersey students playing "Jews vs. Nazis" drinking game
- Thread starter Aomber
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metalslimer
Member
Considering their age I don't think exposing them and ruining the rest of their lives is appropriate. They should definitely face some consequence but I'm never really in favor of shaming underage kids at least for non violent actions.
When I grew up here in Germany, there were some kids who told tasteless jokes about Jews. I remember those kids being a bunch of assholes in general. They crossed boundaries on a daily basis, not just when it came to this specific thing. However, none of them grew up to be a Nazi. Quite the opposite in many cases.
So while I agree that kids should feel the consequences for their actions, and while I think that some embarrassment on social media is deserved—so long as no identities are made public or any other long-lasting consequences are caused—, I am sure that most or none of them are actually anti-semitic. Making them watch footage of concentration camps is probably enough to make most of them find this game less funny.
Wag
Member
Have them watch the movie. The Nazi's were nice enough to document their atrocities on film.
Ok fine fair enough. But much like the way people think of Muslims, the actions end up usually targeting people that look a certain way, and not just because of what they may worship. In the end, and in America, I'm not sure most people think much different about the term and how it applies to people.
gutter_trash
Banned
if they are under 18, I am against exposing them.
it's the Canadian inside of me with the Youth Protection Act in mind.
Minors should not be exposed for doing dumb shit because... they are minors
what is the solution? Not allow minors to have Social Media accounts
+minors should not be allowed to drink. penalize the stores who sold them the alcohol or the parents that gave them the booze
it's the Canadian inside of me with the Youth Protection Act in mind.
Minors should not be exposed for doing dumb shit because... they are minors
what is the solution? Not allow minors to have Social Media accounts
+minors should not be allowed to drink. penalize the stores who sold them the alcohol or the parents that gave them the booze
Already Torn
Banned
King Tubby
Member
I really doubt that finding out just how bad the Holocaust really was is going to change anything. The very awfulness of the Holocaust is exactly where the humor is derived from. It's a shared knowledge of basically The Worst Thing That Ever Happened and the "fun" comes from the shock of being so irreverent towards it and going so far into the realm of poor taste.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Being facetious and all but you do know that Wehrmacht soldiers weren't necessarily nazis. There was a fair share among them but their leaders didn't particularly care if the 16+ yos they enlisted and send to their deaths were sympathizers or not. On the contrary speaking up against the regime usually earned you an express ticket to the frontline.
Happened to my grandfather.
Mechanized
Member
Stupid kids do stupid shit - current day Internet mob justice solution: ruin their lives forever!
Good thing the Internet wasn't around for some of the stupid shit we said and did as kids. Jesus.
Good thing the Internet wasn't around for some of the stupid shit we said and did as kids. Jesus.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Don't get me wrong, the Jew vs Nazi aspect to this story isn't good either. I just feel that all the social media attention this story is/will be getting sorta glosses over the actual crime committed.
It might also be a difference between our countries. I'm sure most of these kids have grown up watching stuff like Family Guy and the like which have tons of Holocaust, Nazi and Jew jokes. If you grew up with that and no real knowledge of the Holocaust, I could see why these kids thought this would be funny or something equally messed up.
Or maybe these kids are just little shits. Who knows
You don't know that. Being called out for their shit and seeing some of the atrocities through video or through stories and what have you, just might leave an impression. I don't care for the "let's not even try" attitude. People can change.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Is it a right of passage for white kids to immerse themselves in stuff like this? I don't recall anyone doing anything of this sort when I was about to graduate from high school, but a lot of posters act like this is common practice, or that it isn't disconcerting as hell that people are reaching legal age and thinking this stuff is all good
Even if they don't realize the more subtle effects of perpetuating shit like this, surely they have to know how dumb it is to do it in this day and age, right?
Even if they don't realize the more subtle effects of perpetuating shit like this, surely they have to know how dumb it is to do it in this day and age, right?
Strangelove77
Member
I wasn't either, but I knew one or two. I think the odds are pretty high that everyone here when they were kids or even as adults knew a racist who said racist things either in a hateful or playful way(which I find no differences in). Whether it was a family member, coworker, friend or friend of a friend. Racism is inescapable and I'm not the type to think that such a huge problem will ever disappear or can be lessened. It's a part of life. A shitty part, like a ton of other parts of life that just plain suck but we must all go through.
I mostly stick up for the individual. If someone is being threatened, harassed or picked on I'll be there to help any way I can. But I can't do anything about a photograph. I get nothing by being outraged and/or saying things on a website to condemn it. I mean, it's nice and people will like me a bit more I suppose, but those things don't matter to me. I don't like to front.
Plus, people change. I'm not into punishing as much as I am into believing that something a teenager or young adult expressed can change. And I have that belief because I've lived it and I've seen. I'm not anywhere close to who I used to be at 18. I'm unrecognizable. That shit happens.
It seems like people like finding any reason to punish or humiliate others. I'm not. That I think is the difference between those who are angry about this and those who aren't. I like to pick my fights.
And in case it matters - I'm not white.
shoplifter
Member
Bad taste, but at least no one was apparently raped at this party so they have something going for them over lots of other high school parties
Garrett Hawke
Member
I mean... don't doxx them or threaten them but if they get taken off things that represent the uni then good?
"teens being teens" is not an excuse. when I was a teen I went to plenty of parties and played plenty of drinking games and approximately 0 of them consisted of "alcoholocaust"
King Tubby
Member
They almost certainly will change, they're high schoolers. I just sincerely doubt that they are suffering from some lack of education with respect to the Holocaust. You basically spend a whole year of school on World War II and the Holocaust.
When I was in high school one of my closest friends, a black kid, came up with a jig that goes something like "99 ni**ers on a red wood tree, 99 ni**ers on a tree" to the tune of 99 bottles of beer on the wall. If you take that shit out of context it looks like the worst, most disgusting shit in the world. He still sings it to himself whenever we see white people dancing.
Lol I hear you. Well the thing about that is, there are millions upon millions of teens around the world. Most of them don't pull this kind of shit and post it to the internet. It's really only the really stupid ones, perhaps badly uneducated or that have bad influences in their lives that think it's ok and that end up doing it. Most teens will live their lives and become adults without ever feeling the need to post something stupid on social media.
Rape? What the hell kind of high school parties did you go to?
old manatee
Banned
SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE HIDING SOMETHING. WHAT DON'T YOU WANT US TO SEE I WONDER?
Strangelove77
Member
High school rape parties, apparently.
Gentleman Jack
Member
When I get drunk, I start making a lot of bad puns.
When these kids got drunk, they decided holocaust jokes and loud racism was fun.
It's not like racism is a vampire in mist form that seeks out drunk people and makes them say racist shit against their will and contrary to their character.
It needs to be pointed out that these are high school students that go the public high school in the city of Princeton, NJ, not the well-known Princeton University.
Wag
Member
I don't think people actually realize how bad atrocities like the Holocaust were until they actually see it for themselves. Night is the best example of this. Most attempted mass genocides are denied and hidden by their perpetrators, the Nazi's were proud of it, so they recorded it for perpetuity.
FYI: There are arguments for and against Judaism as a race. There are certain genetic diseases that run in Jews. Judaism was ruled by the US Supreme court in 1980 as a race for anti-discrimination laws. But since anyone can convert to Judaism, it's not classically what you would consider a "race".
shoplifter
Member
Mostly in reference to shit like Steubenville, which actually deserved the outrage
Or they go to college and having got away with doing something so racist and stupid with no consequences, it gets reinforced and they carry on their racist ways maybe influencing others especially if they are the leaders of the school (sports and what not) like the article says. I mean teaching kids about the holocaust before is different. They can shrug it off as boring history and not relevant to them. But when it becomes part of their lives because of getting caught and getting in trouble for behavior that is not ok, the stories and what not might actually impact them. They might pay attention.
As for the other part. I don't know what to say, other than he's Black so I guess if he wants to sing that he can have at it? Not sure what your point is?
Already Torn
Banned
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
Seeing budding liberal authoritarians simultaneously decry shock humor due to the historical context of the jokes while tacitly advocating for mob vigilantism in the same breath is always a sight to behold. The cognitive dissonance must be staggering.
That is not the theme in this thread at all and keeps being used to dismiss the opinions of the other side of the current debate.
Disgrace. You I mean (and the kids) you're not judge, jury and executioner. Sit the fuck down.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
It's absolutely the tone of the thread regardless of whether or not you're capable of seeing it.
You're insinuating a lot, especially considering most in the thread are against any consequences at all.
Strangelove77
Member
They know. They don't care.
Already Torn
Banned
To be fair, it's mostly just two or three posters who are advocating for ridiculous punishments.
But exposing them virally and then saying don't doxx them has been proven to be an impossibility.
You incite the mob and the mob gets the pitchforks. Doesn't matter what your political stripes are, the vigilantism is practically inseparable.
By all means deal with them internally through the policies of the school and let the lessons be taught by their peer groups, teachers, parents and the system(assuming the system is relatively fair), but asking to expose 16 year olds to the hells of Internet justice is a bit much.
King Tubby
Member
I am pretty confident that punishment or not the kids who played this who are real pieces of shit will go on to be pieces of shit and the ones who aren't will grow up into decent people and look back at this as an embarrassing and stupid thing they did when they were young. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.
The point is that he was being shocking, he didn't lack education on the horrors of racism and slavery (in fact, it's part of the punch of the joke). It's one example of plenty of shit I can point out my friends and classmates and myself saying around that age that was transgressing social mores and would probably get us fired if we said it today.
Xamtheking
Member
Lol. I did plenty of things I'm not so proud of as a kid, stuff that I'm sure would get plenty of ridicule from GAF, but luckily I was able to make it out of my dumb rebellious years with out much of it following me into adulthood.
No kidding. Things have changed a lot over the past 10-15 years. My friends would insult each other in the most terrible and offensive ways as a form of endearment, but the humor was in the fact that what we are saying is just ridiculous and we don't mean it.
We need to make sure Matt Parker and Trey Stone are denied admission into college for this!
CrocMother
Banned
Semitism doesn't equal Judaism either.
thecouncil
Banned
but that IS bad.
Vampire On Titus
Member
Some teenage edgelords made an intentionally offensive drinking game... I have no strong feelings towards this. Like some people have said the brand of shock humor is not far off from CAH. Reading the rules, the "shock" in this game seems too elaborate/belabored to actually be funny. But I guess being 17 and drunk on cheap beer would help with that.
Often times these type of jokes are contingent on the knowledge that what you're saying is actually fucked up and wrong. So saying this is tantamount to a legitimate expression of anti semitic hatred doesn't wash with me. It's like kinda whispering curse words during a teachers lecture in 1st grade (not comparing how incendiary the material is but the mechanics of the humor). Juvenile thrill from being inappropriate.
Do your parameters for what constitutes hate speech include situations where people don't literally mean what they're saying? For instance if someone went on a joking diatribe; a caricature of extreme racist rhetoric for the purpose of mocking it. All the offensive words and ideas are there but it's clearly not a reflection of this person's real views because of the context...
Would you still consider that hate speech? If so I've actually routinely engaged in, and enjoyed, hate speech with my friends.
Often times these type of jokes are contingent on the knowledge that what you're saying is actually fucked up and wrong. So saying this is tantamount to a legitimate expression of anti semitic hatred doesn't wash with me. It's like kinda whispering curse words during a teachers lecture in 1st grade (not comparing how incendiary the material is but the mechanics of the humor). Juvenile thrill from being inappropriate.
Do your parameters for what constitutes hate speech include situations where people don't literally mean what they're saying? For instance if someone went on a joking diatribe; a caricature of extreme racist rhetoric for the purpose of mocking it. All the offensive words and ideas are there but it's clearly not a reflection of this person's real views because of the context...
Would you still consider that hate speech? If so I've actually routinely engaged in, and enjoyed, hate speech with my friends.
Strangelove77
Member
You ask for them to be identified in any way and you condemn them to much worse in the process. There is no separation between asking to know who they are and them getting harassed and humiliated. Or even worse.
One is directly attached to the other.
People here get upset when kids kill themselves or contemplate it because they get bullied online, but then turn around and think it's ok for others to experience that because they "deserve it."
No one deserves anything like that.
And I know it seems like I'm exaggerating, but people in general are known for making a mountain out of a molehill. It's all we do.
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