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Photo shows New Jersey students playing "Jews vs. Nazis" drinking game
- Thread starter Aomber
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Coffee Dog
Banned
nobody is asking for the kids to kill themselves, jesus christ.
Their behaviour is harmful and it shouldn't be tolerated. to do nothing is to allow it. I would argue that these kids receiving social media backlash is better than saying that it's fine for them to encourage hateful shit.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
No, many people here are speaking out against those of you who feel your supposedly unimpeachable adolescent years give you the authority to make broad assumptions about the values and worth, both now and in all future endeavors, of a bunch of teenagers who played a drinking game with shock humor. Whether or not you realize it, you're enabling a much bigger problem in your attempt to stamp out what can far more reasonably be associated with youthful irreverence and tactlessness than actual anti-Semitic beliefs and behavior.
This guy gets it.
This guy doesn't.
Coffee Dog
Banned
how antisemitic does it have to be before it becomes real antisemitism? are these kids just emulating joke antisemitism, like oh so many "ghetto" costume parties do with racism?
Already Torn
Banned
At least a little
Somebody think of the children
Well thank you for getting in my head. It could just be that I think any teenager that gets caught in these kinds of situations should see suspensions and or receive education which I really think is reasonable and probably pretty standard procedures in most schools. I received a 3 day suspension for something much less trivial. You're also assuming you know the thoughts of these kids as well and that there can be absolutely no anti-semantic intentions here. Maybe you need to stop "seeing" so much here yourself.
Ignorance/naivety does not equal racism/bigotry
congratulations, you truly are one in a million
You believe a 16-17 year old deserves to have their lives ruined because of some stupid shit they did? Whoms character you are building up purely on assumption.
It's like sentencing a person without trial and before establishing motive or context.
This type of mindset is disgusting and why internet shaming is the hellish nightmare it is. People like you that think they have it all figured out after a one page article and are in the position to serve as judge, jury and executioner.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I'm glad blogs and Snapchat/cell phone cameras weren't a big thing when I was in high school or middle school or I'd be fucked.
Kids do dumb things that make them seem like kids, news at 11.
It's a dumb drinking game. Care about them drinking under age, not about arranging cups in a swastika to be edgy.
Kids do dumb things that make them seem like kids, news at 11.
It's a dumb drinking game. Care about them drinking under age, not about arranging cups in a swastika to be edgy.
old manatee
Banned
By that logic we should make an example of a 5 year old who hears a slur on TV and uses it at Kindergarten.
Edit: autocorrect changed 'slur' to 'slut' :/
Coffee Dog
Banned
5 year olds do not equal legal adults/people who will soon be legal adults.
These are people with the internet at their disposal. They should know by their age that this is some dumb ass shit.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Thats... a rather poor comparison
King Tubby
Member
I'd say it becomes a problem if you have a pattern of antisemitic behavior around the school, or if some of the kids who are involved in this behavior are also harassing or harming Jews around the school. In and of itself, I don't think saying offensive, irreverent things or playing fucked up games among friends are a very good indicator of character.
That they are edgy teenagers who like to drink a lot. It seems a lot more plausible than Nazi sympathizers.
We can assume all we want and have every right to do so, it is then advocating punishment based on those assumptions that becomes problematic. And yes, advocating exposing them is punishment in this instance.
This is the comparison you want to make? A kindergarten student vs a high school student?
Look, it's obvious a lot of people love to cape for ignorance in here but you gotta at least stay within shouting distance of reality
Ye gods
old manatee
Banned
So if we are including people who are 'soon to be legal adults' as well where is the cutoff exactly?
This is a ballsy question, unless you've literally never said anything in your life that hurt someone without you realizing it was hurtful.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Why does the American youth always have to use whatever they've learned or whatever they're taught as a tool for something else?
Are they too bored to think of anything else or were the horrors of our past too important to pass up?
It's such a gross stereotype anymore and they have no imagination or anything better to do besides copy someone or something that actually exist or existed.
Are they too bored to think of anything else or were the horrors of our past too important to pass up?
It's such a gross stereotype anymore and they have no imagination or anything better to do besides copy someone or something that actually exist or existed.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
anyone who has had some form of middle school education, usually around that age you become versed in the history of the US and major world events.
Spring-Loaded
Member
A five-year-old isn't about to graduate from high school.
It still reflects on the people raising that kid/their environment. It is still a slur, it still carries with it the history of the slur and still has negative effect on the people/world around it when it isn't recognized as being harmful.
I have done exactly that. Me mentioning someone was "confined to a wheelchair," without realizing it would be hurtful to them doesn't magically make it okay, or better in any meaningful way.
Eh, I make assumptions about character every day on this forum and deal with those accordingly.
Then those character assumptions are proven true with gallons of bitter tears elsewhere on the net
I think it's safe to assume that caping for asshole behaviour says a lot about who you are.
Hmm well sheltered probably. They don't take the holocaust very seriously if they are making a big joke of it I think is obvious.
You know, I actually don't want to assume anything about them. I'd love though if they learned something from the situation going forward. Maybe also a dash of reality that in the real world outside of all their friends that think it's hilarious, this isn't acceptable. Might prevent them from doing something even more stupid when they are in college which would have harsher consequences.
You give far too much credit to parenting when study after study shows that it isn't the predictor and influence people think it is.
At 15-23ish, peer groups and natural development cycles that start the process of pulling away from parenting and increases risk taking and learning boundaries is a much larger influence then parents.
CrocMother
Banned
Ignorance is exactly what I'd call it.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Which is why "environment," is also mentioned.
The point is that the perpetrator's intent doesn't dictate the effects of their actions. Whether it was because of ignorance or "racist intent," it's still the same thing in the end here.
I think another thing to think about. These are apparently the leaders of the school body. How do you think the Jewish students feel, assuming there are any which I guess there might not be, but assuming there is, how do you think they feel about the situation of this happening at their school? Even worse if they had family members that were victims of the holocaust.
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
Cool, then maybe they should do something about the peer group
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I enjoy video games where I get to kill the Nazis, but the youth of today want their "invention of the wheel" and it looks stupid to someone who may be expecting something a whole lot better than a Nazi sign made out of plastic cups.
I would love to have another military shooter where I get to kill Nazis, but making a Nazi symbol out of household items is the last thing I want to do.
I would love to have another military shooter where I get to kill Nazis, but making a Nazi symbol out of household items is the last thing I want to do.
Oh man, I wish you had told the nazis that.
old manatee
Banned
I think these kids are probably shitty kids and they should be punished for being shitty kids. I'm just arguing that dealing with the police, school, and parents seems like a pretty reasonable punishment for a 17 year old who got drunk and made fun of the Holocaust. I don't see what anybody gains by these kids being made an example of on a global scale for the rest of recorded history.
But intent dictates what you can expect from people in the future. A committed anti-Semite will in the future discriminate against Jews in consequential ways, by not hiring them, assaulting them, or supporting political violence against them. On the other side of the spectrum, a kid with poor taste and a lack of judgement that was overshadowed by the desire to be edgy in front of his peers will just be embarrassed by himself. It's not like intent is irrelevant to the extent of a problem.
But you do understand the difference between your ignorance/insensitivity and actual malice, I'm assuming. Hate and malice should be rallied against, Ignorance and insensitivity should be identified and amended. Or, at least tolerated and ignored at times in the case of insensitivity, because hey, not every insensitive remark requires a march against it.
In a relative sense, I would imagine that even though it might've hurt, that wheelchair bound person you're talking about would prefer your insensitivity over receiving actual malice. And there should be room there for you to improve and for that person to help you improve without animosity, as opposed to how a hypothetical handicapped-hating Westboro Baptist equivalent should be treated.
Giant Panda
Member
A lot of entertainment media makes light of the holocaust, but they generally aren't considered a big deal. I don't consider this a big deal either based on what we know. It's just young kids doing stupid things.
You literally did not read the first sentence of the post you were responding to.
Fallout-with-swords
Banned
You serious? Stupid teens playing a game they think is funny in the same way a lot of people think the dark comedy of South Park or Cards Against Humanity is funny and not realizing how playing this game can be offensive to certain people.
vs.
Actually being anti semitic and hating Jewish people / being a Nazi sympathizer.
old manatee
Banned
I read the entire post, thank you.
It's irrelevant because these idiots doxxed themselves. Because they are dumb teenagers. It's almost as if they are not even fully developed people.
There is a difference between caping and arguing for proportionality of response.
The former is a blind defense of inappropriate behavior, the latter is merely challenging the extremism of the advocated response to an agreed upon inappropriate behavior.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Nah, shit like this went on before either of those were things. Some teens like to push boundaries and shock humor is a thing. It's tasteless, lacks tact, and I'm sure there were people who were in the room that though, hey this is in bad taste.
If nothing else, stories like this just make people think a little before being stupid in a situation.
I don't support outing who it was, but the people who did know that it's out there, and if they think twice about it, and others not involved think "hey, bad idea".. it's not really a bad thing.
It doesn't need to be vigilante justice against the teens, and it doesn't need to be "omg, PC outrage"... it can really just be "really, c'mon man, nah."
If they doxxed themselves, why are you in here?
But I thought they doxxed themselves, though?
old manatee
Banned
I guess I'm just caping for racists.
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