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[Apath]

And since we don't know the exact details regarding this delivery the whole discussion, at least in terms of the circumstances is nonsense.

I'm not following. Are you saying discussion is nonsense? I cannot imagine a situation where delivering 85 pizzas and getting a $10 tip is not considered a poor tip relative to the order. Unless the house is right down the street.

As I said before, I do not see any reason to be outraged over this or whatever. It's simply a poor tip.

I maybe wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about travel time, which isn't normally considered in the tip, right? So 30 minutes to load and unload. $10 tip. Pretty good to me. Shit, I would probably have tipped $20 and felt good, but I don't live in the US.



That's my point Many tipped jobs make great money and then bitch when people don't tip but also don't want any changes to the system.

To be honest, I feel delivery time should be taken into consideration. This one house would order all of the time, and it would take around 20 minutes to get there. Each time they'd leave a check that was the price of the order + $2 for tip. It was like drawing the short straw in the line up. Another house would order all of the time, was right down the street, and would tip $5-$10. I always felt bad getting such great tips for doing absolutely nothing.

And the traveling takes around 20 minutes for an average delivery (10 minutes to, 10 minutes back). So we're talking roughly 3 deliveries in place of one, assuming it's 30 minutes of extra work to load and unload the pizzas. I think between that and the extra work required, a $10 tip kind of sucks. Still -- I wouldn't post it on a message board to bitch about it, nor do I think this deserves any sort of outcry. I find it kind of stupid that there is even a news story on it.

 

[Dead Man]

Pretty much all wealthy people are frugal. If they're not frugal, they're philanthropists. Wastefully spending money is just a bad idea, no matter who you are or how much money you have. A tip should always be proportional to the service provided.




Now this is a bit silly. I always tip 40% on every delivery I get. There's no reasoning behind it...I just like good service. And if I get the same delivery driver again, I get extra good service the next time around.

What is extra good service on a delivery?

 

[ClivePwned]

I wonder if people working as wait-staff in the US have worked out that once your customer starts speaking with an Australian accent, the chances of getting stiffed on a tip increases dramatically

 

[Aquamarine]

What is extra good service on a delivery?

Well I really like Dominos pizza, and every time I order it these days, the delivery driver (it's always the same one) always delivers lightning fast. Like...ridiculously fast. Faster than a normal delivery should take.

 

[Dead Man]

I wonder if people working as wait-staff in the US have worked out that once your customer starts speaking with an Australian accent, the chances of getting stiffed on a tip increases dramatically

Hah!

Well I really like Dominos pizza, and every time I order it these days, the delivery driver (it's always the same one) always delivers lightning fast. Like...ridiculously fast. Faster than a normal delivery should take.

Yeah, not sure that would be enough for me, I would expect at least a handie or something.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

That's my point Many tipped jobs make great money and then bitch when people don't tip but also don't want any changes to the system.

Eh it's just bitching. We all have those days.
It's part of the job.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

At least he got tipped.

Probably a school function with a budget or a freaking party where they all pooled their money together. Jesus people are dumbasses.

"Why buy the pizza if you can't give a tip?" Because tips are optional.

 

[Aquamarine]

At least he got tipped.

Probably a school function with a budget or a freaking party where they all pooled their money together. Jesus people are dumbasses.

"Why buy the pizza if you can't give a tip?" Because tips are optional.

I think we've discussed throughout the course of this thread that tips, in many ways, are not optional in the USA. They're about as "optional" as you walking down a busy street without any clothes is optional.

 

[weekend_warrior]

This is wrong and you know it. There is no place for name calling in any discussion.

Name calling would be if I called someone a shithead, I'm just pointing out the similar thinking of non-tippers with the thinking of a sociopath.

 

[Apath]

I think we've discussed throughout the course of this thread that tips, in many ways, are not optional in the USA. They're about as "optional" as you walking down a busy street without any clothes is optional.

More optional like not being a huge asshole. You don't have to do it, but if the service was decent, you're a dick head for not tipping.

Not wearing clothes isn't really optional because it's punishable by law.

Name calling would be if I called someone a shithead, I'm just pointing out the similar thinking of non-tippers with the thinking of a sociopath.

It kind of is. Though I think it's more of being culturally ignorant. It would be like going to Japan and talking loudly on the train.

 

[Dead Man]

Name calling would be if I called someone a shithead, I'm just pointing out the similar thinking of non-tippers with the thinking of a sociopath.

It may not be name calling, but it's a pretty massive logical leap.

 

[Pennywise]

I'm not following. Are you saying discussion is nonsense? I cannot imagine a situation where delivering 85 pizzas and getting a $10 tip is not considered a poor tip relative to the order. Unless the house is right down the street.

As I said, we don't know the exact circumstances.
It's not clear whenever this order was given the last minute, as well as the actual distance and so on.Way to many details are missing and the focus should be more on the bullshit system itself.

Of course it's a poor tip.

 

[katsubento]

I always tip well. My mother was a waitress and we lived on her tips. I know a lot of people could give a rip, but I don't expect them to understand.

I'd have given the guy more than $10 for 85 pizzas for sure. But that's me.

 

[Apath]

As I said, we don't know the exact circumstances.
It's not clear whenever this order was given the last minute, as well as the actual distance and so on.Way to many details are missing and the focus should be more on the bullshit system itself.

Of course it's a poor tip.

Why is it a bullshit system? Instead of paying more money for my food, I can dictate how much I pay and how much the server gets. It punishes poor servers and rewards good ones.

It may not be name calling, but it's a pretty massive logical leap.

It's completely ignoring social norms. It's definitely not the same, but I can see the line of thinking.

 

[Aquamarine]

More optional like not being a huge asshole. You don't have to do it, but if the service was decent, you're a dick head for not tipping.

Not wearing clothes isn't really optional because it's punishable by law.

It kind of is. Though I think it's more of being culturally ignorant. It would be like going to Japan and talking loudly on the train.

In NYC, women can legally go out in public topless (IIRC).

Let's change it to that instead. It's more about it being a cultural and societal taboo.

 

[Dead Man]

Why is it a bullshit system? Instead of paying more money for my food, I can dictate how much I pay and how much the server gets. It punishes poor servers and rewards good ones.

Until you get threads like this one where everyone assumes the low tipper is a sociopath and not just rewarding poor service at an appropriate level.

Edit:

It's completely ignoring social norms. It's definitely not the same, but I can see the line of thinking.

Ignoring social norms is indicative of many mental states, not all of which are mental illness or sociopathic. You are assuming the only reason they are doing it is because of a lack of empathy. I think if you want to ascribe sociapathy as the reason then those making THAT claim can be accused of sociopathy themselves since they cannot see any reason for a behaviour that is not greed. Specifically, Facet 2 on the Hare chekclist, or ASPD in the DSM. It is a ridiculous claim.

 

[Rad-]

How bad are waiter (or pizza boy or etc) wages in US if they have to get tips? Like what's the average pay?

 

[weekend_warrior]

It may not be name calling, but it's a pretty massive logical leap.

Calling someone a sociopath because they don't tip would be a massive logical leap, I don't think saying the two group share a similar thread of thinking is though. Not willing to tip shows a lack of empathy for other people, a defining characteristic of sociopaths.

 

[Apath]

In NYC, women can legally go out in public topless (IIRC).

Let's change it to that instead. It's more about being a cultural taboo.

Exactly. It's an expectation in our society that you tip.

Until you get threads like this one where everyone assumes the low tipper is a sociopath and not just rewarding poor service at an appropriate level.

I don't think anyone was calling anyone a sociopath. That is a good point though -- maybe the service was very poor. Maybe the order was late and/or the driver was a dick. All the more reason that getting outraged over this is stupid.

How bad are waiter (or pizza boy or etc) wages in US if they have to get tips? Like what's the average pay?

Something like $2.13 I believe.

 

[Pennywise]

Why is it a bullshit system? Instead of paying more money for my food, I can dictate how much I pay and how much the server gets. It punishes poor servers and rewards good ones.

To put it simple.
I prefer to provide a healthy wage for every driver.
And I still have the opportunity to tip thoose who earned it.

If a driver somehow screws up or is unfriendly I'll call his boss or order from someone else.
Overall shitty drivers or servers will never suceed, but that doesn't mean I let everyone in the buisness suffer and let them get less then beggers on the street....

It's working fine in most of the European countries.

 

[Ponn]

Until you get threads like this one where everyone assumes the low tipper is a sociopath and not just rewarding poor service at an appropriate level.

Ehhh...thats a stretch. Only JordanN was being called a sociopath and that was based more on the responses and discussion, not just tipping.

 

[UrokeJoe]

I'm not liking this future, think I'll go back..

 

[Dead Man]

Calling someone a sociopath because they don't tip would be a massive logical leap, I don't think saying the two group share a similar thread of thinking is though. Not willing to tip shows a lack of empathy for other people, a defining characteristic of sociopaths.

Again, you are assuming lack of empathy is the reason. There are a multitude of reasons not to tip. You may or may not agree with them, but empathy or lack thereof is not the only one. Lack of empathy is also not the defining characteristic of sociopathy. There isn't really one defining characteristic, it is a series of characteristics that lead to the diagnosis.

Ehhh...thats a stretch. Only JordanN was being called a sociopath and that was based more on the responses and discussion, not just tipping.

Yeah, fair enough. Still, the social shaming that occurs if you don't tip is enough that it is not really optional, since people seem to assume you are being cheap rather than appropriately rewarding service.

 

[Apath]

To put it simple.
I prefer to provide a healthy wage for every driver.
And I still have the opportunity to tip thoose who earned it.

If a driver somehow screws up or is unfriendly I'll call his boss or order from someone else.
Overall shitty drivers or servers will never suceed, but that doesn't mean I let everyone in the buisness suffer and let them get less then beggers on the street....

It's working fine in most of the European countries.

Nobody is going to tip someone if they don't have to/it's not expected.

And it works fine here, so why change it? Because other countries don't like it? Too bad. I'm not going to Europe and arguing about how they should change their ways to be more American because it makes more sense to me.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Something like $2.13 I believe.

Whoa no way.
As a driver, I make 7.67 when I'm inside the store. That's the pitiful minimum wage for Florida. When I'm on the road I make 4.85 + 1.50 per delivery(well it can be less than that thanks to our cheapass owner).

This is all the more reason to provide prompt service. The faster I get deliveries out, the less time I spend on the road.

EDIT: Oops. Florida's minimum wage is 7.79 now.

 

[bananabread]

I'm a pizza guy (albeit in Australia where we earn a liveable wage and tips are entirely optional).

A $10 tip on a single order is completely fine. I could see an argument for more since taking large orders like that is a pain in the ass and the time consumed would hinder his chances of getting further tips on other deliveries, but the amount of work involved certainly doesn't justify ~$100 since the driver probably didn't have a hand in making or cutting the pizza, both of which are far harder and take more skill than simply loading it into his car. Not to mention he probably had help loading the pizza into his car from other people in the shop and got help unloading it at the other end from the people organising the event.

I can understand why he'd be pissed if things in America work on a percentage rule and it'd be nice if the business/event he was delivering to was super generous to a guy that is probably struggling with studies or whatever, but from experience I can say he certainly didn't do enough to earn $140.

 

[Pennywise]

Nobody is going to tip someone if they don't have to/it's not expected.

And it works fine here, so why change it? Because other countries don't like it? Too bad. I'm not going to Europe and arguing about how they should change their ways to be more American because it makes more sense to me.

Of course they are.
Good service will always be rewarded.
There are negative examples but overall it's an ongoing chain.

And it wasn't my intention to let Europe shine here, it's just an ongoing topic I've never seen discussed with such an uproar outside the US.
It's a running gag on GAF for reason and in my opinion, with a change it could led to a better service.
Simply because a driver who isn't always worried if he makes enough "tips" to pay his bills is naturally more relaxed and focused.

 

[ryan13ts]

It might have been a bit much to expect a 20% tip in a case like this, but they should tipped the guy at least like $40-50 bucks for an order that big. They spent nearly 1,500 bucks on pizza, they should have spared a $50 for the poor guy having to deliver all that crap.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Keep in mind, the possibility exists that the driver helped make the pizzas.

 

[Terra Firma]

These aren't as easy as one may think. I'm just being curious, but where do you live?

I live in Canada.

And if these aren't that easy, then go to school to gain skills that will make you more competitive. It is also a catch 22 since a lot of people make a lot more in tips than they do with their salary, people are not willing to give up tips in order to increase the minimum wage.

And what of those people who work minimum wage jobs that do not have an opportunity for tips, such as people who work as cashiers or basically anywhere in the service industry outside of restaurants and bars? Do people tip their cashiers? Do people tip at fast food places?

 

[weekend_warrior]

As a pizza driver as my second job this pizza tipping thread pisses me off.

Fun fact:

1. pizza drivers do more than drive pizza, they also cook and clean up around the restaraunt. Considering the amount of work involved, that driver probably made at least a quarter of those pizzas.

2. unlike a mailman, a pizza driver has to pay for their own gas using their own vehicle

3. take out paying for gas in today's economy and you have very little to live off of. This morning I FILLED MY TANK. I spent 5 hours driving around delivering pizzas tonight and ended up with a grand total of 40 bucks. Guess what I'm going to have to spend that money on? MORE GAS.

Fuck.

I just came home from work. 5 hours of driving, almost half a tank gone, 40 dollars in my pocket. It's not worth it. Need a different second job and fuck anyone who says "wah wah, what's the big deal?" The person who tipped is an idiot AND a dick and I hope the people making that pizza sneezed on their food.

Yep, I've worked in delivery and echo your sentiments exactly. Was a shitty shitty job.

 

[JordanN]

As a pizza driver as my second job this pizza tipping thread pisses me off.

Fun fact:

1. pizza drivers do more than drive pizza, they also cook and clean up around the restaraunt. Considering the amount of work involved, that driver probably made at least a quarter of those pizzas.

2. unlike a mailman, a pizza driver has to pay for their own gas using their own vehicle

3. take out paying for gas in today's economy and you have very little to live off of. This morning I FILLED MY TANK. I spent 5 hours driving around delivering pizzas tonight and ended up with a grand total of 40 bucks. Guess what I'm going to have to spend that money on? MORE GAS.

Fuck.

I just came home from work. 5 hours of driving, almost half a tank gone, 40 dollars in my pocket. It's not worth it. Need a different second job and fuck anyone who says "wah wah, what's the big deal?" The person who tipped is an idiot AND a dick and I hope the people making that pizza sneezed on their food.

You should toss in some cyanide mix and anti-freeze in there as well. It's all the same path to becoming a criminal.

 

[BankaiZaraki]

I myself usually tip 5 to the pizza guy. Now I want pizza.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

$40 in 5 hours is...unfortunately a very real possibility.
Mondays are typically the worst for me. 7 hour shift, cleaning the store at close, and usually the worst batch of customers.

Dude, yesterday I got 9 dollars.

Total.

Fuccck. Where is this?
I can picture making $9 in a night if I delivered entirely to this one neighborhood...

 

[Nose Master]

Never understood the % tip scenario in this case. It's not proportionally more work to deliver two pizzas rather than one, so why would you tip them twice as much? Delivery guys shouldn't even be on the "we can pay them like dogshit cause tips!" system.

 

[Absoludacrous]

I had a pizza delivery job one summer in college. I quit the day it actually cost me money to work. Like I worked 6 hours and spent more money on gas than I made from working, including tips (which were practically non-existant, since no one tips in a college town).

 

[SummitAve]

You should toss in some cyanide mix and anti-freeze in there as well. It's all the same path to becoming a criminal.

Edit: that was too mean

You need a serious reality check.

 

[dmag1223]

When I delivered pizzas, we would sometimes get large orders upwards of $1000. Our manager knew big orders like this would often lead to the driver getting stiffed, so he would add in a gratuity on their bill. Of course he would tell them when they ordered that this was included because of the size of the order, and they were almost always cool with it. Helped avoid awkward and tense situations that might pop up on deliveries like that.

 

[Planet_JASE]

Tipping topic aside, you are easily one of the least intelligent posters I've seen on this forum, and that includes gaming side. It's unfortunately ironic too as you seem to only be able to communicate in what you so call "facts". Your distaste for society most likely stems from watching others constantly leapfrog past you as you sink further into your own cynicism.....you need a serious reality check.

It would be nice if you could rebut his points without feeling the need to put him down in some way or another. You claim that his point are unintelligent but your constant need to insult him is not serving you in any positive way.

 

[Darryl]

It might have been a bit much to expect a 20% tip in a case like this, but they should tipped the guy at least like $40-50 bucks for an order that big. They spent nearly 1,500 bucks on pizza, they should have spared a $50 for the poor guy having to deliver all that crap.

this was probably an order from a business, and business doesn't feel sorry for the poor guy. any tip out of generosity (beyond what would be reasonably expected) would probably be coming out of whoever just so happened to be picking the order up's own wallet.

edit: i keep revisiting this topic only because it has pizza in the title and i'm pretty hungry.

 

[Timedog]

So what?
A percentage based tip makes no when you're order thousand dollars worth of food.

10$ was a bit on the low side, but 20% would have been ridiculous.

How does it not make sense? Maybe it depends on the place, but where I work cooks get tipped out.

 

[SapientWolf]

I think we've discussed throughout the course of this thread that tips, in many ways, are not optional in the USA. They're about as "optional" as you walking down a busy street without any clothes is optional.

They're optional in the only way that matters. You're not legally obligated to tip unless it's something like a mandatory group gratuity. Jaywalking while nude would typically get you arrested.

 

[spats]

Nobody tips in Finland, but then everything's more expensive here. And I find the thought of tipping kind of silly. Isn't your employer supposed to keep food on your table? That's kinda why you work there, isn't it?

 

[THE Caffeinated]

Australian here, I need a few things cleared up.

First of all do you not get paid a wage to deliver pizza? You only get your tips and that's it, or are the tips a bonus? And secondly do customers not have to pay more for delivery? It's like 9 bucks extra or something here at Pizza Hut if you want it delivered.

 

[gamma]

Jesus did this turn into a tipping thread?

 

[Neverfade]

I'm sure this has been covered since this thread is fairly long, but the real crime here is the average price of those pizzas. 1453.xx over 85 pizzas is over 17 bucks per.

Take your 10 dollars and get the fuck out of here pizza man!

Spoiler

He should got more than 10 bucks.

 

[Aquamarine]

Australian here, I need a few things cleared up.

First of all do you not get paid a wage to deliver pizza? You only get your tips and that's it, or are the tips a bonus? And secondly do customers not have to pay more for delivery? It's like 9 bucks extra or something here at Pizza Hut if you want it delivered.

American here.

1. Usually, the wages for delivery drivers are very low (like $2.30 an hour). That's below the federal minimum wage, so they're expected to make the rest of their income (and pay for gas) with the tips they make.

2. In some states, if the delivery driver doesn't make enough tips, the restaurant is required to make up the difference to the hourly minimum wage (~$7.50 an hour).

3. Every normal, sane person is SUPPOSED to tip the delivery driver 10% to 15% of the bill. If the customer thought they did a particularly good job, they can raise the tip up to 25%, and if they thought they did a poor job, they usually give tips of like 5%.

But any tip below 10% (under normal circumstances) is generally considered to be rude / insulting. 0% or 0.05% tips are ESPECIALLY insulting. However, it is within your legal right to refuse a tip, if it's optional. Some places have a mandatory tip that's automatically added to the bill.

4. Some places also have a "delivery charge" that gets tacked onto every bill (this is separate from the tip---the money doesn't go to the delivery driver), but most of the time delivery is free (with the expectation that you will tip decently). Food is cheaper in restaurants than places like Australia, partly because of the expectation that you will tip.

 

[LaserBuddha]

American here.

1. Usually, the wages for delivery drivers are very low (like $2.30 an hour). That's below the federal minimum wage, so they're expected to make the rest of their income (and pay for gas) with the tips they make.

2. In some states, if the delivery driver doesn't make enough tips, the restaurant is required to make up the difference to the hourly minimum wage (~$7.50 an hour).

3. Every normal, sane person is SUPPOSED to tip the delivery driver 10% to 15% of the bill. If the customer thought they did a particularly job, they can raise the tip up to 25%, and if they thought they did a poor job, they usually give tips of like 5%.

But any tip below 10% (under normal circumstances) is generally considered to be rude / insulting. 0% or 0.05% tips are ESPECIALLY insulting.

4. Some places have a "delivery charge" that gets tacked onto every bill, but most of the time delivery is free (with the expectation that you will tip decently). Food is cheaper in restaurants than places like Australia, partly because of the expectation that you will tip.

And to clear up something else you didn't touch on, delivery charge is usually like $2.50 or something. I don't know what's up with these mini kickstarters to get a pizza delivered in Australia that the other poster mentioned, but it sounds like a better job to have there.

...

Basically, in America we have the feeling of entitlement to have certain food delivered, so it doesn't cost much to get delivery. We also have a bunch of ratchet ass gafers Americans who think they are entitled to free delivery or service. They blame the establishment for not charging them for service on the bill, though they certainly didn't find the moral vigor to voluntarily pay for that service either. Don't let them fool you, they're simply playing the system and coming up with any number of illogical excuses to the contrary. No matter how many ways they try to frame the concept of "I should be charged for service, but I won't voluntarily pay for it when given discretion", it won't make sense. They are GAF's great shame (previous great shame title holders lost the title when they lost their mod accounts).

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

And to clear up something else you didn't touch on, delivery charge is usually like $2.50 or something.

In Australia, a large pizza at Dominos will cost you $6 if you have a voucher, pickup. A Large Pizza, delivered, costs you $10 with a voucher. Delivery drivers get ~$10-11 per hour as wages. The Australian minimum wage for a 16 year old is $7.55/hour. There is no tipping culture and as a result there are no jobs that pay sub-minimum wage and make up the difference in tips.

 

[GMM]

As a pizza driver as my second job this pizza tipping thread pisses me off.

Fun fact:

1. pizza drivers do more than drive pizza, they also cook and clean up around the restaraunt. Considering the amount of work involved, that driver probably made at least a quarter of those pizzas.

2. unlike a mailman, a pizza driver has to pay for their own gas using their own vehicle

3. take out paying for gas in today's economy and you have very little to live off of. This morning I FILLED MY TANK. I spent 5 hours driving around delivering pizzas tonight and ended up with a grand total of 40 bucks. Guess what I'm going to have to spend that money on? MORE GAS.

Fuck.

I just came home from work. 5 hours of driving, almost half a tank gone, 40 dollars in my pocket. It's not worth it. Need a different second job and fuck anyone who says "wah wah, what's the big deal?" The person who tipped is an idiot AND a dick and I hope the people making that pizza sneezed on their food.

And this right here shows why there is a need to get rid of that kind of tipping system, it hurts both the employee and consumer while benefitting the employer.

Us europeans cannot really understand the logic behind forced tipping because we already(in most countries that is) have paid for the full extend of the service we are getting and doesn't feel the need to reward the most basic of services. Tipping is just a way to unload wages onto the consumer and in a lot of other cases just a socially forced bonus some service based professions exploit.

Honestly, it is not the consumers problem that an employer won't pay for gas or a greater wage, it's solely an issue between the employee and employer.

If food or delivery prices have to come up by removing the need for tipping, so be it. It works in Europe and can work in other places.

It would also seem like I would be getting a sneeze pizza.