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[Bizzyb]

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/5206/sony-devs-ngp-is-the-machine-we-all-wanted

Call me crazy but isn't that exactly what Nintendo said they did for 3DS?

 

[Dreamwriter]

I'm sure they're all good by LCD standards (though I'm not sure what's so special about the 3DS screen other than 3D), but OLED kicks the shit out of all of them. That is if you value picture quality.

The 3D LCD is what's so special about the 3DS screen, duh And while OLED is awesome in some ways (brightness/color), it tends to be worse than LCD in others (contrast). Regardless, my point was the devices mentioned in no way have "crappy" screens.

 

[Yoboman]

I don't know about HP and Apple, but Samsung builds everything.

Aren't their Galaxy phones incredibly powerful, OLED screen, and still relatively cheap?

 

[H_Prestige]

The 3D LCD is what's so special about the 3DS screen, duh And while OLED is awesome in some ways (brightness/color), it tends to be worse than LCD in others (contrast). Regardless, my point was the devices mentioned in no way have "crappy" screens.

This is so wrong it's not even funny.

 

[Lonely1]

Aren't their Galaxy phones incredibly powerful, OLED screen, and still relatively cheap?

Yes, if $500+ is relative cheap for you.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Call me crazy but isn't that exactly what Nintendo said they did for 3DS?

No, Nintendo designed the 3DS the same way they always make their handhelds. Which involves working with first party developers working at Nintendo, but not third parties at all.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

The 3D LCD is what's so special about the 3DS screen, duh And while OLED is awesome in some ways (brightness/color), it tends to be worse than LCD in others (contrast). Regardless, my point was the devices mentioned in no way have "crappy" screens.

Umm....are you sure you're not mixing things up, because OLEDs advantage is pretty much all categories; black levels, contrast viewing angles, color reproduction, etc. over LCD tech.

The difference is just is huge over LCD.

It's the only tech I would feel fully satisfied of a full upgrading my Pioneer Kuro Elite to.

 

[TTP]

The 3D LCD is what's so special about the 3DS screen, duh And while OLED is awesome in some ways (brightness/color), it tends to be worse than LCD in others (contrast). Regardless, my point was the devices mentioned in no way have "crappy" screens.

I though contrast was one of the major strengths of the OLED tech?

 

[Durante]

I though contrast was one of the major strength of the OLED tech?

It is. OLED has "infinite" contrast, since the black level is 0.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

The 3D LCD is what's so special about the 3DS screen, duh And while OLED is awesome in some ways (brightness/color), it tends to be worse than LCD in others (contrast). Regardless, my point was the devices mentioned in no way have "crappy" screens.

OLED screens have a native contrast ratio of 2,000,000:1 compared to LCD native contrast of 1000:1 for better screens and dynamic 100,000:1 for locally dimmed LED backlit ones.

If anything it is the contrast that sets OLED and LCD apart. There are some problems of course, daylight viewing is pants, and when showing a pure white screen it will consume 2-3x more power than an equivalent LCD/LED screen.

 

[Yoboman]

Yes, if $500+ is relative cheap for you.

Well the Galaxy Tab costs $200

http://www.thegalaxytab.com/2010/11/04/samsung-galaxy-tab-costs-214-57-to-make-less-than-the-ipad/

So I'm not sure where you're getting that $500 figure from

 

[Mrbob]

If you are kidding yourself if you contend that Samsung, HP and Apple doens't have as good (or better) manufacturing infrastructure than SCEA.

The only thing I stated is that article is rubbish and a bit misleading. I never stated Sony Corp (why SCEA?) has it better. They have the same ability as all the companies above to manufacture goods at a decent price. Anyone who can mass produce custom components in house has the ability to drive costs down.

 

[Lonely1]

Well the Galaxy Tab costs $200

http://www.thegalaxytab.com/2010/11/04/samsung-galaxy-tab-costs-214-57-to-make-less-than-the-ipad/
So I'm not sure where you're getting that $500 figure from

From the real life (retail) price? Look at your own source:

Samsung Galaxy Tab on sale in Germany – €799

 

[Yoboman]

From the real life (retail) price? Look at your own page:

Samsung Galaxy Tab on sale in Germany – €799

We aren't talking about retail prices, they can obviously have quite significant margins

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Yes, if $500+ is relative cheap for you.

ZTE Blade. £99 unlocked, came with an AMOLED screen until they ran out due to the massive success of the device and switched to LCD.

 

[Lonely1]

We aren't talking about retail prices, they can obviously have quite significant margins

Then you obviously didn't read the article that i posted.

 

[Piggus]

Who cares what they sell the Galaxy at? The actual manufacturing cost is a million times more telling. Sony doesn't put a $400 premium on their game systems. They typically sell them at an initial LOSS.

To assume the NGP will be expensive based on the RETAIL price of current tablets and phones goes to show that people don't know a damn thing about how Sony runs their console business.

 

[H_Prestige]

OLED screens have a native contrast ratio of 2,000,000:1 compared to LCD native contrast of 1000:1 for better screens and dynamic 100,000:1 for locally dimmed LED backlit ones.

If anything it is the contrast that sets OLED and LCD apart. There are some problems of course, daylight viewing is pants, and when showing a pure white screen it will consume 2-3x more power than an equivalent LCD/LED screen.

Samsung's OLED performs just as well or better than the iphone 4 outdoors. The NGP's OLED looks to have a nice and dark colored screen so I imagine it won't have too many problems either.

 

[Lonely1]

ZTE Blade. £99 unlocked, came with an AMOLED screen until they ran out due to the massive success of the device and switched to LCD.

I responded specifically to the Samsung prices.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Then you obviously didn't read the article that i posted.

Huh, what's there to get. The article says €799 recommended price, it obviously refers to the retail price, not the production price...

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I responded specifically to the Samsung prices.

This actually uses a Samsung made AMOLED screen, anyway what difference does it make. A phone selling for £99 made money and had an OLED screen. That fits all the required criteria.

 

[Lonely1]

Who cares what they sell the Galaxy at? The actual manufacturing cost is a million times more telling. Sony doesn't put a $400 premium on their game systems. They typically sell them at an initial LOSS.

To assume the NGP will be expensive based on the RETAIL price of current tablets and phones goes to show that people don't know a damn thing about how Sony runs their console business.

And what is the manufacturing costs? (Don't cite a company whose business is entirely based on linking with Companies that claim they can build it cheaper than whatever the hardware they are analyzing was build for).

 

[Yoboman]

Then you obviously didn't read the article that i posted.

Your article has nothing to do with production prices, it really has no bearing on NGP. Tablets are quite clearly a lot cheaper to manufacture than what the RRP is

 

[Lonely1]

Your article has nothing to do with production prices, it really has no bearing on NGP. Tablets are quite clearly a lot cheaper to manufacture than what the RRP is

It has all to do with it, it's main point is that none is matching or undercutting the iPad because no competitor can. (with a similar quality product, not that $99 Arm 11 phone or that $300 Archos crap-Tablet)

 

[Yoboman]

It has all to do with it, it's main point is that none is matching or undercutting the iPad because no competitor can. (with a similar quality product, not that $99 Arm 11 phone or that $300 Archos Tablet)

Of course they aren't, because they don't have to. Tablets are percieved as a high-priced market, and these companies are capitalising on the profit margins they can make.... None of them are expecting to beat Apple in this market

 

[Durante]

It has all to do with it, it's main point is that none is matching or undercutting the iPad because no competitor can. (with a similar quality product, not that $99 Arm 11 phone or that $300 Archos crap-Tablet)

Well, there's the the Nook Color. It has a great IPS screen and 512MB ram, and a slightly slower OMAP SoC than what's in most tablets (about 1/6th of NGP in performance).

I's a good comparison since the business model is quite similar to NGP, except with ebooks instead of games. It retails for $250.

 

[Lonely1]

Of course they aren't, because they don't have to. Tablets are percieved as a high-priced market, and these companies are capitalising on the profit margins they can make.... None of them are expecting to beat Apple in this market

So, you are arguing that the article is wrong, then? (Not that it has nothing to do?).

 

[DieH@rd]

ZTE Blade. £99 unlocked, came with an AMOLED screen until they ran out due to the massive success of the device and switched to LCD.

Im getting one hopefully in two weeks time. Either that or ZTE Skate/Huawei x5/x6. All those phones are great and really cheap.

 

[Yoboman]

So, you are arguing that the article is wrong, then? (Not that it has nothing to do?).

Yeah pretty much.

 

[Lonely1]

Well, there's the the Nook Color. It has a great IPS screen and 512MB ram, and a slightly slower OMAP SoC than what's in most tablets (about 1/6th of NGP in performance).

I's a good comparison since the business model is quite similar to NGP, except with ebooks instead of games. It retails for $250.

Is quite bellow 1/6 of the NGP performance. The TI SoC uses the old SGX 530 (at 45 NM), with is about 50% slower than the 535, with is two times slower than the 540, wich is 50% slower than a single core 543. SO, up to 1/18 in GPU power?

 

[Piggus]

Honestly who gives a dick. When the price is announced, it will speak for itself. It will also shut those up who think Sony has to price it the same as a modern tablet.

 

[Durante]

Is quite bellow 1/6 of the NGP performance. The TI SoC uses the old SGX 530 (at 45 NM), with is about 50% slower than the 535, with is two times slower than the 540, wich is 50% slower than a single core 543. SO, up to 1/18 in GPU power?

I was talking about CPU performance. Yes, GPU is a larger gap. Still, it's maybe the most comparable device in terms of hardware and business model that is available right now.

 

[Lonely1]

Honestly who gives a dick. When the price is announced, it will speak for itself. It will also shut those up who think Sony has to price it the same as a modern tablet.

No. I'm not saying that the NGP is going to be $500+, but I do think that people are underestimating the building costs of this devices.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

The manufacturing cost of the iPhone 4 is estimated to be $7.10. The parts cost $171.35. I would guess that by this Christmas, the iPhone 5 (featuring a dual core A9 cpu and SGX543MP2 gpu) will have a very similar build cost.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/10/apple-reduces-build-cost-of-cdma-iphone-with-design-tweaks/

I don't think it's out of the question that Sony could launch the PSP2 at $299 this Christmas, and lower the retail price of the PSP2 to $199 sometime late 2012 or early 2013, if the market dictates.

Is quite bellow 1/6 of the NGP performance. The TI SoC uses the old SGX 530 (at 45 NM), with is about 50% slower than the 535, with is two times slower than the 540, wich is 50% slower than a single core 543. SO, up to 1/18 in GPU power?

Is this true, is there a source you could link to? I'm very curious about the power of mobile GPUs.

In particular, I'm wondering how the PSP2's GPU compares to the other mobile GPUs that have been announced, the Tegra 3, the latest Adreno, the latest OMAP etc.

 

[charlequin]

Why exactly is "totally unrelated"?

Because the article is entirely about marginal pricing for products that have comparable build costs and how much retail margin they can afford to extract based on the secondary aspects of their business. It doesn't address literally anything that's part of the pricing question for a game system.

People here argue that "the iPhone 4 is only $200 to build! So the NGP can't be much more!".

Those people also have no idea what they're talking about, but in a different way y'understand.

I don't think it's out of the question that Sony could launch the PSP2 at $299 this Christmas, and lower the retail price of the PSP2 to $199 sometime late 2012 or early 2013, if the market dictates.

No, that's definitely entirely plausible.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

So you think NGP is bad hardware design?

I don't the NGP is overengineered. But I do think it looks ugly and it certainly isn't something I would want to be seen in public with.

Here's hoping that whenever Sony switches over 22nm, they can make the NGP look something like this...

or this...

And while we're at it, I would like the next iteration of the Xperia Play to be able to play all NGP games that don't neccesitate the use of the touchpad for controls. It should be doable if they stick a quad core A9 and the SGX543MP4 in the Xperia Play 2.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

No, that's definitely entirely plausible.

A $299 barebones pricetag and a premium $399 sku at launch increasingly seems to be the most plausible option.

I think the real question concerning launch is how much storage the $299 sku will come with built in.

I could see 8gb of flash storage in the $299 sku, and a premium $399 sku with 16gb of storage, 3G, Little Deviants bundled in, as well as a voucher for a free Sony movie download, a free ps1 game download, and a free psp/psn game download from sony's playstation store as a cheap way to get people used to the idea of downloading ps1 and psp games, and movies directly onto the device.

They could overstock the $399 sku while demand still outpaces supply, and start stocking the $299 sku once the demands cools down a bit.

 

[KAL2006]

I don't the NGP is overengineered. But I do think it looks ugly and it certainly isn't something I would want to be seen in public with.

Here's hoping that whenever Sony switches over 22nm, they can make the NGP look something like this...

or this...

And while we're at it, I would like the next iteration of the Xperia Play to be able to play all NGP games that don't neccesitate the use of the touchpad for controls. It should be doable if they stick a quad core A9 and the SGX543MP4 in the Xperia Play 2.

I think the current design looks great, and I actually like that it isn't a slide design. Slide would make the NGP more thicker (current design is quite slim). Also I find the slide design more uncomfortable to hold. Finally with the slide design the makes the screen harder to touch for touch inputs, so combination of buttons and touch screen will be harder to do. Finally the backtouch won't work as good, mainly because the back touch is the same size as the front screen so you will be touching the backtouch by accident when holding the the device.

 

[Noshino]

And while we're at it, I would like the next iteration of the Xperia Play to be able to play all NGP games that don't neccesitate the use of the touchpad for controls. It should be doable if they stick a quad core A9 and the SGX543MP4 in the Xperia Play 2.

Not gonna happen.

It would make the NGP more or less pointless.

 

[-Winnie-]

The current design looks fine, and is probably great to hold, but I'd want a portable to be more... portable. True, you can chuck it in a bag, but it'd be so much more convenient if it was PSPgo size.

 

[legacyzero]

If only I could have a PS2 library on NGP, I would buy this thing THREE times if it made Sony happy.

I know, I know. "If you wanna play PS2 games...bla bla bla"

I work at a boring call center and I cant very well take a PS2 to my desk lol.
Imagine games like FF 10-12, all the Metal Gears, DMC's, and Ace Combats in the palm of your had. Hell, I'd buy it just for that.

 

[pharmboy044]

If only I could have a PS2 library on NGP, I would buy this thing THREE times if it made Sony happy.

I know, I know. "If you wanna play PS2 games...bla bla bla"

I work at a boring call center and I cant very well take a PS2 to my desk lol.
Imagine games like FF 10-12, all the Metal Gears, DMC's, and Ace Combats in the palm of your had. Hell, I'd buy it just for that.

Wasn't there a rumor that the NGP might be able to emulate PS2 games?

 

[KAL2006]

The current design looks fine, and is probably great to hold, but I'd want a portable to be more... portable. True, you can chuck it in a bag, but it'd be so much more convenient if it was PSPgo size.

I choose more comfortable to hold and huge screen over uncomfortable to hold, smaller screen and less control options.

 

[KAL2006]

If only I could have a PS2 library on NGP, I would buy this thing THREE times if it made Sony happy.

I know, I know. "If you wanna play PS2 games...bla bla bla"

I work at a boring call center and I cant very well take a PS2 to my desk lol.
Imagine games like FF 10-12, all the Metal Gears, DMC's, and Ace Combats in the palm of your had. Hell, I'd buy it just for that.

That would be great, for some reason I just prefer playing old console games on a handheld. Old console games look terrible on my HDTV. That is why I love playing emulators and PS1 games on the PSP. If NGP could play PS2, games I'd get those games that I haven't played yet (Viewtiful Joe 2, Valkyrie Profile 2, Tales of the Abyss, DMC3 SE, Jak 1 and etc)

 

[Stephen Colbert]

I don't understand the love for the current NGP design. The only angle that it looks nice from is the side. Head on, something about the design is very off.

Not gonna happen.

It would make the NGP more or less pointless.

Not at all. The NGP would be the $250 dedicted handheld, with a touchscreen on the back for games like Little Deviants, and the Xperia Play 2 would be the $700 cellphone+handheld for richer people who don't mind signing a 2 year contract to get the device for $250. The Xperia Play 2 would be the actual high margin device for Sony. They would both get $300+ for every device sold and $15+ for every NGP game sold for it. There's no downside to Sony. Not making the Xperia Play 2 compatible with NGP games and cartrages would basically be Sony leaving money on the table.

Making the NGP a cellphone would sell it to a lot more people. Lots of people, even gamers, don't like the idea of carrying two different devices with them at all times. They like having one pocketable device that they can do everything on, browse the web, play games, take pictures, and make phone calls. That's a big part of the reason why smartphones in general gaming on smartphones in particulary so rapidly became a multibillion dollar industry, but none of the games coming out for the Xperia Play have the kind of appeal that Uncharted and Call of Duty have.

Besides, the current Xperia Play is ruined by the touchpanel instead of dual analog nubs. Gamers dislike smartphone gaming precisely BECAUSE it feels obnoxious to use touch inputs to control movement and aim. Fingers need to actually interact with the controls and get some feedback in return imo. I think Sony could market and sell a boatload of Xperia Play 2s and a tons of NGP games, possibly even outpace iPhone sales on a week to week basis, if it the Xperia Play 2 could play NGP games and had dual analog nubs.

 

[legacyzero]

I choose more comfortable to hold and huge screen over uncomfortable to hold, smaller screen and less control options.

And please, no slider design. I feel like I'd snap that shit in half, and it looks uncomfortable as hell.

These days, I dont care if I can fit the shit in my pocket. Comfort, entertainment, and wow factor take precedence for me.

 

[legacyzero]

That would be great, for some reason I just prefer playing old console games on a handheld. Old console games look terrible on my HDTV. That is why I love playing emulators and PS1 games on the PSP. If NGP could play PS2, games I'd get those games that I haven't played yet (Viewtiful Joe 2, Valkyrie Profile 2, Tales of the Abyss, DMC3 SE, Jak 1 and etc)

Skip DMC3 unless ur a glutton for punishment LOL.

I still dont think I ever beat

Spoiler

Virgil

at the end.

 

[risk]

The current design looks fine, and is probably great to hold, but I'd want a portable to be more... portable. True, you can chuck it in a bag, but it'd be so much more convenient if it was PSPgo size.

Eh, it seems like this will happen eventually. Same as the PSP.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

The current design looks fine, and is probably great to hold, but I'd want a portable to be more... portable. True, you can chuck it in a bag, but it'd be so much more convenient if it was PSPgo size.

Exactly. I would love to see the PSP Go make a come back in the Xperia Play.

Something like this perhaps...

Or better yet...

or..

or

or even a variation on the Sony Vaio Portable...

 

[KAL2006]

Not at all. The NGP would be the $250 dedicted handheld, with a touchscreen on the back for games like Little Deviants, and the Xperia Play 2 would be the $700 cellphone+handheld for richer people who don't mind signing a 2 year contract to get the device for $250. The Xperia Play 2 would be the actual high margin device for Sony. They would both get $300+ for every device sold and $15+ for every NGP game sold for it. There's no downside to Sony. Not making the Xperia Play 2 compatible with NGP games and cartrages would basically be Sony leaving money on the table.

Making the NGP a cellphone would sell it to a lot more people. Lots of people, even gamers, don't like the idea of carrying two different devices with them at all times. They like having one pocketable device that they can do everything on, browse the web, play games, take pictures, and make phone calls. That's a big part of the reason why smartphones in general gaming on smartphones in particulary so rapidly became a multibillion dollar industry, but none of the games coming out for the Xperia Play have the kind of appeal that Uncharted and Call of Duty have.

Besides, the current Xperia Play is ruined by the touchpanel instead of dual analog nubs. Gamers dislike smartphone gaming precisely BECAUSE it feels obnoxious to use touch inputs to control movement and aim. Fingers need to actually interact with the controls and get some feedback in return imo. I think Sony could market and sell a boatload of Xperia Play 2s and a tons of NGP games, possibly even outpace iPhone sales on a week to week basis, if it the Xperia Play 2 could play NGP games and had dual analog nubs.

It could happen but I doubt it will happen in the first 3 years of when the NGP is out, so will concentrate on NGP as just a gaming device and nothing more, they don't want NGP to get mixed in with the mobile market (Xperia Play is for that), they want it to rival 3DS. I also expect the device to be much smaller than the NGP, around the same size as the current Xperia Play (it will take some time to pack something as powerful as NGP into a smaller size).