DJSebolski
Member
Can you use regular dual shock 4?
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PSVR Price: $399/399/£349/¥44,980, no camera/move, launching October
- Thread starter Man
- Start date
Can you use regular dual shock 4?
Wow, they literally say 'horrible motion controls' in that piece. No way to translate that golems motion without some sort of bodysuit or cabling system.
Fushichou187
Member
Yup. The tracking light on that will work as well. Though I personally would prefer a controller (in this case, Move) for each hand for some games.
mckmas8808
Banned
The thing that is frustrating is the whole notion that the PlayStation 4 is weaker then the PC that's needed to run the VR experience. He said that games will be created to run natively in 45 frames per second and then they get doubled up to 90 to play in the PlayStation VR headset. Of course we all know that is incorrect. My question is why is this guy who's the host on tested not knowledgeable enough to know you can't run games internally and 45 frames per second?
Why does everything seem to be predicated on the fact that the PlayStation 4 is just so weak? Why do we have to withstand this lie over and over and over again? When will people realize that the PlayStation 4 and the headset that will go on sale actually isn't that much worse then what you get on the Oculus and Vive headset with the PC that are run them?
But I get the frustration that could create.
I hated Red Steel 2 because it wouldn't recognize my sword swings correctly. I used to do kendo for a bit so I have a good grasp on how to swing a katana. The game would have you swing as if it was a baseball bat instead for it to actually work.
It's a lost cause, sadly. The mass and mainstream journos (and some in the field too) will always skim through details and make up their mind about something and rationalizing around it.
Speaking of PSVR how come no one's strapped a VR headset to a chimp yet, I wanna see that
Is the headset really that sexy IRL?
AnimaOnline
Member
Maybe just display some opaque arms/controllers showing your 1:1 movements and then have the golem try to match it as quick as the devs want to allow. At least to a certain extent it'd get rid of the awkward disconnect between the user's motion and what they're seeing in-game.
Karak
Member
Well its not a lie thats probably the first thing. It is factually true and the sooner everyone understands and accepts it the clearer the field can be.
There is no need for people to get artificially defensive over a systems power. For me for example each fits in its space fairly well based on price and power and features all of which will come up in obscured fashion when discussing them.
The PS4 is a slower and weaker system compared to most that will be paired with the RIft and of course PC's can be upgraded. Thats fine. Its not a problem to be fixed. Its a situation to be planned around.
Its not only not new in any industry its pretty standard to have different cost effective tiers. The sooner people get that hyperbole out of their systems the better. I am going to have all of them and enjoy them but just like any industry there is a lower power version which is indeed the PS4 and its cost reflects that. A middle ground item and a top shelf item all of them reflecting their tier via their price.
I could see this working in the context of this game, since you're actually on your bed, controlling from far away.
Karak
Member
Ya man an HRD would be awesome. Bonds would come back and beat everyone though lol
Movalpolos
Banned
so, uh...
maybe tomorrow?
maybe tomorrow?
When people on a well respected YouTube channel that covers tech in a bit more detail it's pretty shit when they say stuff that is flat out wrong, stuff that they've been told about on the same day and should have knowledge about from simply keeping abreast of all the usual websites. When he says PS4 can't do 120Hz so the framerate is doubled he's flat out talking pure bullshit. The 90Hz being derived from 45 is something I've never even seen suggested before, he's just making that up for some bizarre reason. The info is out there, it's not a mystery that he is guessing at, he's flat out getting it wrong. Then this feeds into people who watch that one video and come on places like this saying PS4 just can't do 120Hz native rendering and blah blah blah.
Saint Gregory
Member
I'm guessing that I'm going to have t take the sexy custom PS4 sticker off that spotlight on the back of my PS4? My analog sticks are so messed up now they that I might just buy a fresh one to use with PSVR.
Karak
Member
EDITED: For better answer. That is not what I responding to with the other gaffer about
That channel video is just dumb purely.
On your controller? Is that something neat looking or just something you made to hide the light?
maybe soony.
Karak
Member
For some reason I feel like we are going to be waiting longer than many of us think. God I hope not
piratepwnsninja
Member
No no, that isn't what I'm saying at all. The tech doesn't change, but the immersion factor is different. If the tech is still spotty, sure that's not great, but it's still a different experience using motion controls in conjunction with VR versus just using motion controls. That's all I meant.
I wonder if it has to do with Sony only using one camera while Oculus and Rift both have dual sensors/lighthouses.
mckmas8808
Banned
It's all about degrees of power. Yes the PS4 is weaker than any PC that will run the PCVR headsets. But the question is degrees. I'm starting to question why he felt the need to make up those numbers that even he has to know are incorrect. It makes me wonder if he said those numbers just to confuse people on purpose to feed into this narrative that the PS4 is just so much weaker. Sony has done a few public presentations on what the PS4 can do internally when it comes to VR. Those videos are only 20 to 30 minutes long so why aren't they watching those videos?
Which leads me to my final set of questions, what would it mean to the Tested host if the PlayStation 4 could run games natively at 120 frames per second? What would it mean if the PlayStation 4 can play Eve Valkyrie at 90 frames per second? Would they believe that it may change the way their viewer's View the power of the PlayStation 4?
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Sorry for the late late reply.
You can absolutely use it like a TV, that's what the cinema mode is for. Don't concern yourself too much about the warping, you'll never see it because you're always looking through the lenses. Again though, you don't want it to use the entire screen.
cheezcake
Member
For a product 6 months out there are bound to be some issues, I haven't seen other reports similar to this so it's possible it was an issue with that particular setup.
I think you're reading way too much into it. There's been a lot of technical inaccuracies when it comes to the current big tech reviewers reporting on VR, definitely not isolated to Sony only. Sony has the added disadvantage that the whole reprojection thing is an added layer to confuse journalists who aren't that into it. Remember this is a new tech that, outside of gaming, is very much niche. Big tech sites won't put in the effort to really look heavily into it as it likely doesn't appeal to their reader base that much. In terms of degrees you can't really fault what they say, a PS4 is half as powerful as an Oculus ready PC and from all the impressions I've read of eve Valkyrie everyone has said the graphical difference in the PSVR and Rift demos is very noticeable. That sort of gap is apparent to people who have tried both without needing any prior research.
Karak
Member
It was a mistake in a busy time. I have gone to GDC and you are busy the ENTIRE time talking to hundreds of people. They got flayed for it but needlessly attaching any kind of conspiracy to it just lends even more time to a discussion that is actually bog standard anyway but somehow trying to conform it so it seems like its not.
Sucks as no one wants anyone making a mistake but IGN, Gamespot, and Polygon have all made mistakes in the past as well. So have I, pretty much so has anyone running a channel or website.
As for what it would mean to the Tested hosts. Nothing. Nothing at all. They come from a background of varying power anyway its a completely mundane and expected situation for any technical minded folk. The additional frames will come at a cost, which Sony have said in their video with Tested both about the headset but also the second screen which is exactly what would happen on any other system. It doesn't stop it from being cool. Rift and Vive will have thier own issues as well.
There is no magic in the PS4. Its the weakest of the VR systems and that is totally fine. In fact it fills ls a perfect niche that is absolutely important regardless of power. Just like if you grabbed 3 video cards low, mid and high.
AnimaOnline
Member
If you don't mind opening up the controller then just buy some new sticks for the thing. But if you dig your sticker too much to part with it then yeah, maybe just get a new controller. You'd definitely have to rip that thing off for tracking.
Isnt the PS4 cam 2 cams as well though?
timmyp53
Member
No it's just the move itself. Pretty old stuff. The Wii Motion + basically was better than it after it released.
I can see them making/announcing a new iteration soon. Might even happen at E3 and that's all we see about PSVR at the event.
Hopefully get some vive like 1:1.
cheezcake
Member
It's a stereo cam, I think he means two sensors at opposing positions in the room. The biggest flaw I see with Move tracking in PSVR is that you're going to lose tracking if you rotate away from the camera. I think that'll lend a focus to more gamepad oriented experiences as turning is a really natural thing to do in VR and losing tracking of the controllers when you turn too much would be jarring.
Karak
Member
Yes the playstation 4 camera has 2 1280×800 pixel cameras
Ya we were discussing just this on the podcast. Not sure how they would work around that unless I am missing it.
Saint Gregory
Member
They were selling them on eBay right after launch since it was distracting for folks with reflective TVs. They had different designs etched into them to let enough light through to see that the controller is on and not much more. My new TV is matte so I don't even need it anymore.
I didn't know that they were easy to replace, I may look into that. I never got a 2nd pad though so I may as well pick up another now.
Well thats a seperate issue, Im just pointing out that In pretty sure the PS4 Camera uses 2 cameras as well.
And I feel Wii Motion + and Move were almost identical, except Move had more accurate 1:1 spatial tracking, and iirc didnt need constant recalibration. While Wii + maybe had bettwr direct aiming. Its been so long though.
I never had any tracking problems with either. But I made a point to remove any possibilties of interference in my surroundings.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Sure it's a stereo camera, but for the purposes of tracking the PSeye is a single sensor. Because of this, PSVR will be limited to front-facing experiences in a relatively small field of view.
Karak
Member
Ya I wasn't saying it wasn't. Someone asked what it had above.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I hear ya, just clarifying for others that seem to think the stereo camera is the same as multiple sensors.
It has separate sensors inside to track orentation, etc. Just like the Wiimote and DS4 Its not just the ball being tracked. The ball just gives positional data as far as I know.
Isnt Occlus a single sensor as well? All the images Ive seen is a single sensor as far as I can tell, but I dont know all the details, so maybe not? Or is it easy to add or buy additional sensors?
The_Inquisitor
Member
There's a good mix of FUD going through the thread right now. I blame SOOONNY for messing up the preordering.
Saint Gregory
Member
It probably wouldn't have been a terrible idea for Sony to work on another VR specific controller but it makes sense for them to give Move users extra life for their investments.
I guess if that glove patent they filed is for PS4 then that's exactly what they have in mind down the road.
Movalpolos
Banned
Exactly.
For instance, on PS3 you don't even need to have a camera hooked up to just use the Move to scroll through the XMB.
cheezcake
Member
I believe all the current motion controllers also have IMU's. You use the internal sensors as it has the lowest latency to give you transient information, then they all use the cameras to periodically correct for error accumulation in the xyz position. The difference is that with multiple sensors you can also correct for error in the orientation.
Thanks for the reply!
I mean that you can't use it to display an image, full-resolution, like a monitor. You can't just use it like a flat 1080p display to watch 1080p content and see that content at full resolution. As you say, "you don't want it to use the entire screen".
Karak
Member
Copy that!.
Yeah I was hoping there would be a Move 2 at least. I really dislike the button placement on Move and Wiimote. Both have poor ergonomics.
cheezcake
Member
Yeh the current SKU somes with one camera, but the touch controllers have already been confirmed that they will come with a second camera.
BackBackPunch
Member
The Oculus DK2 has a single tracking camera, and works just fine for 360 degree positional tracking...
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Yes you are correct, 1080p content that you watch won't be at full resolution, but rather a sub-HD subset.
piratepwnsninja
Member
cheezcake
Member
The headset will work for 360 degree tracking, but we're talking about the move controllers.