i think it's crazy to say that mobas might exist as they are right now without dota all-stars or the sc2/wc3 mod scene. they wouldn't exist at all, these devs would probably be doing something entirely different.
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Quantum Break PC is a mess (non-native render, badly optimized, overpriced, etc)
- Thread starter texhnolyze
- Start date
i think it's crazy to say that mobas might exist as they are right now without dota all-stars or the sc2/wc3 mod scene. they wouldn't exist at all, these devs would probably be doing something entirely different.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but NeoGAF is a CORE GAMING FORUM. Why the fuck would any of us care about the surrounding equation if all it does is punish US?
lol is very different, same genre but definitely not a dota remake. older hon and dota 2 are the remakes.
still, the lol devs only became high-profile enough to get funding because of the mod, and only got gamedev experience because of the mod, and only had a potential audience because of the mod, etc
lol would not exist without modding
Captain_Fujisawa
Member
Sorry, not sure if anyone has said this. Could the upscaling used in the game be something to so with all the 'time distortion' effects the game throws around. Like the 3 720p frames are used for the distortion windows. Perhaps having this done a 1080p is too taxing hardware wise.
Hawk269
Member
Do we really need posts like this? It is not really adding anything to the discussion at hand and if the attempt was to be funny, it fell very flat.
dmix90
Member
Could be i guess, but again, provide an option for user to choose how he wants to experience game on his PC. Put this option in a submenu, mark it bright red and write warning about performance cost or something like that..
Lol show me where I support UWP to death. Show me where I said you should be sympathetic to anything. I just think people should make accurate comments.
As PC gamers I understand why all you would care about is how UWP effects PC gamers... I just don't think that justifies being wrong about the API. Also, someone who uses my PC for things other than games, I look at the ramifications on not just gaming but all of my use cases.
I don't think it will benefit YOU in the long term. Because if/when the fix SLI, and Vsync, and support overlays, and give their 1st party teams enough time to properly port their IP, and all the other stuff there still won't be open modding.
But YOU aren't their only target customer. And YOU represent a small portion of their target consumer base.
But for those who don't care about modding games or can live without modding some games, they'll have a few more MS PC games games to play.
From the broader perspective, UWP should result in more applications coming to the Windows platform. Which is good for Windows users.
For application developers it should allow them to target larger audiences with less coding work.
UWP will never be ideal for a lot of core PC gamers thanks to the modding issue. That's doesn't mean the API is totally without merit and needs to die. It doesn't mean MS needs to release their own games in .exe format. It just means that if MS wants to continue to dominate the PC gaming marktet with Windows, then they need to continue to allow win32 to work on Windows 10.
Yep. I'm so disappointed. I'm really debating just getting a refund. I haven't touched the xb1 version either. The only thing making me hesitate is the fact that I used a gift card so I only paid 40 but still.
michaelius
Banned
Core gaming is badly served by UWP. General desktop applications are badly served by UWP (why would the likes of Adobe support Microsofts attempts at a PC storefront when they can get 100% of revenue selling via Win32 direct to customers?).
As has been pointed out before, the only real beneficiary from the "UWP equation" is Microsoft.
Pathfinder
Member
Because comments that help generate intelligent discussion are usually more accepting and have a more positive effect.
Corporations move with/for money. Discussion don't do much without some action.
Smh, Adobe doesn't have to use MS' store front... Where have you been? They can sell directly to their customers with UWP... They don't have to concede a single red cent to MS.
These tired ass arguments where people refuse to actually educated themselves on the subject matter.... Get old man
Pathfinder
Member
dr_rus
Member
Yeah, a 1.5x increase in resolution from the one the game is running on a 1Tflops XBO h/w will be too taxing for our Fijis with their 8Tflops of performance.
What's happening as a trainwreck of a PC version, nothing else.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Why would Adobe ever do that though? Why would any company directly sell to customers their programs via UWP when EXE files actually works on how many other OSs and it's a tried and true way of doing things on PCs?
Considering their past history, saying more UWP games on Windows is good for Windows users is short sighted. Last time Microsoft tried their hand at PC gaming they left thew platform with permanent damage.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Can you imagine if MS were actually competent at boiling frogs? terrifying thought.
See this is where you're approaching UWP the wrong way
MS are not the platformholder of the pc, windows is not a walled garden that MS uses to exert control over developers, publishers and users.
Windows has always just been an OS and nothing more, noone has to go through Microsoft or get their permission to do ANYTHING on pc or windows.
So when you say
Nobody cares what ms wants , they don't get a say, they should never get a say. Them selling an OS does not give them any right to tell anyone what to do with their pc or how to use it.
The fact that they are now trying to turn windows into this walled garden they can control by e3ing windows api with UWP is making people reel with disgust.
Microsoft are overstepping their bounds, big time.
Nor would a whole lot of other games... including a majority of the greatest classics on pc like half life, doom, quake , warcraft 3 etc
Are you starting to see now?
Their faq suggests they're at the mercy of the publisher (MS). I almost feel bad for remedy but then again they chose to get in bed with Microsoft. Sleep with the dog and you'll get his fleas.
Yep, it's impossible to overstate the impact modding and the openness of the platform has had on pc gaming.
Now imagine if gta6 was an UWA app , where you can only do any kind of modding within the limits of what the developer is willing to enable steam workshop style. You'd get a big middle finger from rockstar.
I wonder if Halo is currently getting ready to scale the Jurassic pile of you know what and be the last dump.
The worst thing is Microsoft just don't have any pride in these games, that'll do but if people complain, they'll do a little more but never above and beyond or right in the first place.
Who wouldn't want a perfected Halo collection with expansive content, PC mod support and community tools, I know, Microsoft! Such a waste.
The worst thing is Microsoft just don't have any pride in these games, that'll do but if people complain, they'll do a little more but never above and beyond or right in the first place.
Who wouldn't want a perfected Halo collection with expansive content, PC mod support and community tools, I know, Microsoft! Such a waste.
michaelius
Banned
What do you think worked better against Microsoft during xbox one reveal ?
Well thought out arguments why used games are not killing industry or this video having 15 milions of views :
http://youtu.be/kWSIFh8ICaA
Pathfinder
Member
Are you kidding? That was one of the best thought out arguments made in the history of video games. And made so succinctly they managed to do it in 21 seconds.
LordRaptor
Member
Am I misinformed in believing that QB is actually using Denuvo as an anti-piracy solution in addition to the pretty ham fisted 'always online' requirement for watching the streaming only in game FMVs?
Because I guess the piracy rhetoric to use UWA is coming irregardless.
I think its fair to keep the question open regarding exactly what is involved with third party distribution of UWAs as
1) Nobody still knows what this method specifically involves other than the vague on details statements given and a handwaving mention of certificate based authentication
2) No third party is actually distributing UWAs
If MS had much in the way of an incentive to not see QB sink like a huge turd I would have expected MS authorised resellers to be offering key sales for it, for example.
But they're not.
So todays actual real world scenario is in fact that the only people selling UWAs are MS themselves, through their own store front.
How do they not get a say when Windows 10 store is their platform and all the AAA games on it so far are games they have directly had a hand in.
I have no idea tbh, it totally could be using it. Which would make the security argument very weak.
b-b-b-but you just gotta wait a few years! phil will come through!
Notice how the post you quoted doesn't say "windows 10 store" anywhere in it?
End goal is transparent even if the path seems unlikely now. They want really bad to be THE store for PC and they can shut the other store fronts out. The mechanics is as simple as a single mandatory W10 update to shut down w32. Not likely right now but you can see all the outlines of that plan in the features and design of UWP.
It's like walking in on your room mate who has pornhub onscreen, one hand full of moisturizer, his cock in the other hand and not suspecting he's going to masturbate. You have to be willfully blind.
The moment they could get away with it they'd shut out the other store fronts, take a % off of all PC software sales, and increase prices. It's their Modus Operandi. They did things like that in the past. The initial plans for the XB1 was them prematurely pulling such tactics on console gaming.
UWP does have a updated model which would be more secure. But that's one pro in a ocean of cons and they could have done the rest of that without all these extremely intentional limitations.
What the hell are you basing that on? They've released 4 UWP games. There are countless f2p games in the win10 store that likely dwarf the revenue they get from these 4 titles, especially considering how poor the ports have been. There are paid apps, that have clearly pulled in more money.
Sure, they want to use Xbox titles to bolster the store. But at the moment core gaming is a small part of their ecosystem. And if/when these Xbox titles manage to draw in more consumers and developers, core gaming will still make up a small part of their Store revenues.
1) I'm guessing you didn't watch much of the Build conference, or any of the in-depth sessions afterwards?
2) That's because they can't do that at the moment (at least not very easily anyway). They'll only be able to do that after the big update this summer. Not that I expect a sudden huge influx of third party distribution support, but still.
LordRaptor
Member
No. Because what Executives say at press conferences are of surprisingly little value in terms of development.
Feel free to link me to an MSDN page describing the necessary steps to do so however, because the best I can get out of people who did watch it are that it is certificate based in some manner, and I actually would like to know what the details involved in doing so are.
And as you point out, it won't be until July (a full year after the full official public launch of the Win 10 Store and UWAs) that we aren't discussing hypotheticals applying only to consumers using in development preview builds of Windows.
plasmawave
Banned
Is that a threat, bro?
A threat implies you might do it or plan on doing it. We are passed this point. They are doing it right now.
boredandlazy
Member
dr_rus
Member
It's not as much as they can't as MS doesn't allow them in the current version of their UWP platform. Which basically means that whatever is happening to it now is an afterthought which they weren't able to predict during the development of Win10 which isn't exactly filling me with confidence in anything that MS does at the moment.
As for 1) they really haven't released any details in any of these sessions beyond a vague promise to allow this in theory.
Well the press conference is designed to be a high level look at the changes that are coming. You shouldn't really expect them to go too in depth with regards to development. If you want that you need to watch the more technical, in-depth sessions that are on afterwards, which is where the actual developers get a chance to demonstrate their work. I'm not sure if a MSDN page even exists at this point, however if you are genuinely interested, then you should watch these two technical sessions from Build:
- Universal App Model Overview: Whats New in the UWP App Model
- Project Centennial: Bringing Existing Desktop Applications to the Universal Windows Platform
Both of those videos (particularly the first one IIRC) will tell you everything you need to know.
texhnolyze
Banned
More like people who moved over from consoles very recently and have no idea how the fuck things work and what the actual ramifications are.
keltickennedy
Member
MS or Remedy have yet to comment on the problems with the PC version correct? Or did I miss something?
Do you have any sales data? Windows mobile install base is tiny and the w10 install base is growing but not massive and surface is somewhere between. Most mobile transactions are ios.
They can, it's just that it involves a lot of extra unnecessary work from the developer -- including installing random security certificates behind the user's back -- to do so. Which is why I said not very easily. As for your other statement, well, just see my post above
You did. I posted Remedy's responses several times in this thread. They're a mix of "blame UWP" and snark.
LordRaptor
Member
No, they don't at all.
What I want is a "How to". Developer documentation explaining the process.
If I want to make a UWA right now, and distribute it via a webpage to the public in a manner that does not involve powershell security warnings or 'sideloading', how do I do that?
As far as I can tell, there is no way of doing that currently.
So can we please have a moratorium on just casually saying "third parties can totally distribute UWAs easily without going through the Windows Store" because there is literally zero information on how to do this available.
e: For example, this page documents how to package an app for either distribution via the Win 10 Store or 'sideloading' into a restricted environment. There is a necessary third option - widespread distribution not via the store and not via sideloading - which is not described at all here.
exmachina64
Banned
There's no fix coming.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
This is the correct answer.
Yeah, let's say I fire up Visual Studio right now and write a simple hello world app with a small GUI. How do I turn that into a UWA that I can distribute freely by sending it to friends without going through the store?