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[KageMaru]

Oh, and DLC.... Fantastic!

I can understand the viewpoint about the paywall, but do you honestly think that DLC would have never found its way to consoles without MS?

Nope.
And it's in Microsoft's interests to keep people confused. I expect SE/CD hands are tied, and they're not able to clarify the nature of exclusivity.

People are confused over the deal? I thought it was obvious that it's timed exclusive.

 

[Krilekk]

Sure, but that's an incredibly shortsighted business model. The less people who buy your game, less money made from DLC, less of a fan base for the next game etc.

Shareholders aren't patient. They want profits now, not potential profits in the future. It's a business model that is a necessity. King showed how that works just yesterday.

 

[reKon]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

Talk about going in. Damn son.

 

[Darknight]

So this year people en masse aren't going to buy Temple of Osiris because they potentially won't be able to play ROTR next year?

I think it sends mixed messages to gamers from CD/SE. Why release this smaller title multiplatform but not the retail sequel that was multiplatform? So I would tell people if they are pissed, not to support them.

Im personally gonna wait for it to get it free like the first smaller titled they did. Like download the demo and you get the full copy glitch

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Thanks for the link.

It says:

Microsoft's Phil Spencer confirmed the news to Eurogamer today during an interview at Cologne's Gamescom. We'll have more about the specifics - and the reasoning - behind the exclusive for you soon.

Now we wait....

You'll get only some PR fluff that says nothing at all.

 

[Marvel]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

Spot on.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

People are confused over the deal? I thought it was obvious that it's timed exclusive.

Most of this thread was people speculating on the nature of its exclusivity, and this is GAF, think how it comes across elsewhere.

 

[DWinn7]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

History Lesson...Looks like nothing I'll say on GAF will ever match this. lol

 

[Delicious Waffles]

Yea, MS being cagey about the timed stuff really made things worst.

I don't see them being cagey at all. Look at it from their point of view. After they announced it'll be exclusive to their console, you really think they'll start answering questions on whether or not it'll be timed and, if it is, how long until it appears on a competing console? Screw that. It's exclusive to their console and that's all they have to say on the matter.

 

[spekkeh]

Drek's post highlights exactly why I made up my mind to switch from 360 to PS4 way before the notorious E3. And why 'corporations are all in it for the money' rings hollow. You can be in it for the money and simultaneously be proud of the good product you're making. Sadly it's a mindset that has been lost on American corporations at large.

Spoiler

although I don't like milching franchises so er, good job on killing all those dead in their tracks I guess, MS

 

[Ooccoo]

Aw.... this is kinda lame.

I was hoping this would be a true next gen title only.

This generation is stuck with cross gen AND IT SUCKS

 

[Mugatu]

I'm not angered by this move but I am quite baffled that SE was disappointed with Tomb Raider sales and they thought making the next game less accessible would generate more sales. Of course MS had to have paid for this but would they have paid that much? Maybe the combination of that money and the lower cost of developing for only one platform made it worthwhile?

 

[StarBlazers1]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

Boom!.....is what I would say if the same weren't true for Sony.
Let's Look at many of Sony's "First Party" Studios.....
Guerrilla Games - Killzone Series - Started out as a Multi-Platform Developer making Shellshock:Nam '67 on Xbox/PS2/PC - Bought by Sony
Insomniac Games - Ratchet and Clank - Not owned by Sony but responsible for 1 of Sony's longest running franchises
Naughty Dog - Uncharted, Jak and Daxter and Last of Us - Started as a 3DO developer. Remember Way of the Warrior?
Sucker Punch - Sly and Infamous - Started with a game called Rocket on N64 - acquired by Sony in 2011
Quantic Dream - Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls - Started out as a multiplatform developer making games like Omikron and Fahrenheit.
Evolution Studios - Drive Club - Acquired in 2007 by Sony - started as a PC developer but wanted to get into Playstation development.
Only Media Molecule and SSM are still prominent, and by your definition, proper First-party developers for Sony making AAA titles. I realize there are various smaller developers doing PSN games for Sony, but I haven't seen very many of them actually started by Sony.

One more thing. Microsoft is in the videogame industry to make money. As is Sony and Nintendo.
It's ridiculous to think that Microsoft didn't bring anything to the table. They innovated by making broadband a standard. Bringing small studios into the industry by creating XBox Live. XNA was pretty cool and was less cost prohibitive than Sony's Net Yaroze.
The fact is, the gaming industry is better with more competition.
I understand the hatred for something like the Tomb Raider situation, but this is business. If Sony could afford it, they would do the same. MGS4 was only on PS3. There were previous ones on PC and Nintendo platforms. I know it's been said before, but Sony paid to keep Tomb Raider 2 off of the Saturn.
It's a Dog eat dog world and it sucks that we have to pay for it. But before you rail against one company, make sure it doesn't apply to the one you are essentially comparing it to.

 

[Mozendo]

While I'm glad Microsoft is building up their exclusives and that people want to play this game, why did it have to be a sequel to a multiplat game?

Oh well I was thinking of getting all the consoles at some point.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

This generation is stuck with cross gen AND IT SUCKS

Everytime I read these comments complaining, I feel like this must be the first time people are witnessing console transitions.

 

[Steroyd]

Rise of the Tomb Raider is coming to both Xbox One and Xbox 360

Not sure if there ever was any doubt but there you go.



Thanks for taking the time to write this down.

Cross gen? In late 2015?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[BumblebeeCody]

I can play this since I own an Xbox One but everyone should be able to experience this. I hate this exclusive shit.

 

[MaxwellParrish]

H
Game costs 50 million to develop multiplatform
Game has an additional marketing budget of 50 million
Game needs to sell 3.4 million units to break even

Exclusive:

Game costs 45 million to develop (only one platform and additional tech support from partner)
Game's marketing budget of 25 million is paid by the partner
Game needs to sell 1.5 million units to break even

while I don't disagree with you, can I ask you how making the game appear on a single platform slash the marketing budget in a half without making the game far advertised? And if the game is less advertised, do you believe it's really that much simpler to sell half the copy to less then an half of the possible users?

 

[EventHorizon]

Having a larger install base doesn't automatically equal bigger sales because with a larger install base you also get more games in general which means overall less sales per console for the median title. But about those millions: They predicted sales of 6 million for TR and ended up with 3.6 million. How should they predict what it would sell on PS4? It might end up being half of that. Less platforms also means less development costs. So let's just for the fun of it assume this (numbers made up, based on past titles):

Game costs 50 million to develop multiplatform
Game has an additional marketing budget of 50 million
Game needs to sell 3.4 million units to break even

Exclusive:

Game costs 45 million to develop (only one platform and additional tech support from partner)
Game's marketing budget of 25 million is paid by the partner
Game needs to sell 1.5 million units to break even

You see how it can be very tempting for a publisher to go timed exclusive? They can then spend an additional five million on the PS4 version and have almost pure profit from that after 170k copies sold because by that time word of mouth has done the job that marketing does before launch. And SE is on record for stating that they are looking for new ways to maximize profits.

I think your math is off.

Case #1:
50 million to develop + 50 million in marketing = 100 million total development costs
100 million / 3.4 million games = $29.41 profit per game

Case #2: (exclusive)
45 million to develop + 25 million in marketing = 70 million total development costs
1.5 million copies sold * $29.41 profit per game = 44 million in profit

Last time I checked, spending $70 million in development and marketing costs for $44 million in profits wasn't a really good business decision. Admit it you just made up those numbers.

 

[0ptimusPayne]

The sad thing is that for this kind of money they could have propably funded a new game from Square Enix. One that otherwise wouldn't be made, like Soul Reaver and the backslash wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

Exactly. I would've at least wanted them to pay all that money to resurrect Raziel. Tomb raider isnt exactly the kind of "exclusive" that I want to play on my X1, especially since its the sequel to game that came out 2 years ago. Really would've stole the show with a Legacy of Kain reboot...

 

[Phlebas]

Snip

Absolutely perfect.

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

Phil Spencer was building a really nice image for himself, as a games first kinda guy and this ruined everything.

 

[Steroyd]

Everytime I read these comments complaining, I feel like this must be the first time people are witnessing console transitions.

Not 2 years into a generation.

 

[Nibel]

The cat is out of the bag

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph

 

[bidguy]

Kigari says otherwise


So because they couldn't get a deal with Sony they went "Fuck it, make it xbox exclusive" instead of, you know, releasing it on all the platforms?

makes sense seeing as sony never mentioned it not even during e3

 

[LiK]

MS confirms Tomb Raider exclusivity "has a duration".

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...b-raider-xbox-exclusivity-deal-has-a-duration

 

[KeRaSh]

Didn't see that one coming. It's a shame I have to wait longer for it, though. I'm sure as hell not buying a One for it.
It'll be iinteresting to see how this affects sales and the IP in general.
With current console sales this must have been a pretty expensive deal. SE probably didn't want to risk low early sales again and make the money up front but I believe the sequel would have been a huge seller right from the get go if it went full multi platform on day 1. This might dampen sales a little now.
I know I'm not paying full price for a delayed release.

 

[massivekettle]

Boom!.....is what I would say if the same weren't true for Sony.
Let's Look at many of Sony's "First Party" Studios.....
Guerrilla Games - Killzone Series - Started out as a Multi-Platform Developer making Shellshock:Nam '67 on Xbox/PS2/PC - Bought by Sony
Insomniac Games - Ratchet and Clank - Not owned by Sony but responsible for 1 of Sony's longest running franchises
Naughty Dog - Uncharted, Jak and Daxter and Last of Us - Started as a 3DO developer. Remember Way of the Warrior?
Sucker Punch - Sly and Infamous - Started with a game called Rocket on N64 - acquired by Sony in 2011
Quantic Dream - Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls - Started out as a multiplatform developer making games like Omikron and Fahrenheit.
Evolution Studios - Drive Club - Acquired in 2007 by Sony - started as a PC developer but wanted to get into Playstation development.
Only Media Molecule and SSM are still prominent, and by your definition, proper First-party developers for Sony making AAA titles. I realize there are various smaller developers doing PSN games for Sony, but I haven't seen very many of them actually started by Sony.

One more thing. Microsoft is in the videogame industry to make money. As is Sony and Nintendo.
It's ridiculous to think that Microsoft didn't bring anything to the table. They innovated by making broadband a standard. Bringing small studios into the industry by creating XBox Live. XNA was pretty cool and was less cost prohibitive than Sony's Net Yaroze.
The fact is, the gaming industry is better with more competition.
I understand the hatred for something like the Tomb Raider situation, but this is business. If Sony could afford it, they would do the same. MGS4 was only on PS3. There were previous ones on PC and Nintendo platforms. I know it's been said before, but Sony paid to keep Tomb Raider 2 off of the Saturn.
It's a Dog eat dog world and it sucks that we have to pay for it. But before you rail against one company, make sure it doesn't apply to the one you are essentially comparing it to.

Well said.

 

[aly]

The cat is out of the bag

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph

Welp.

 

[Duster]

Originally Posted by Drek

The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

These are not facts.

The XB1 was built with advertising in mind.

http://www.sticktwiddlers.com/2013/06/28/xbox-one-dashboard-created-with-advertising-in-mind/

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Boom!.....is what I would say if the same weren't true for Sony.
Let's Look at many of Sony's "First Party" Studios.....
Guerrilla Games - Killzone Series - Started out as a Multi-Platform Developer making Shellshock:Nam '67 on Xbox/PS2/PC - Bought by Sony
Insomniac Games - Ratchet and Clank - Not owned by Sony but responsible for 1 of Sony's longest running franchises
Naughty Dog - Uncharted, Jak and Daxter and Last of Us - Started as a 3DO developer. Remember Way of the Warrior?
Sucker Punch - Sly and Infamous - Started with a game called Rocket on N64 - acquired by Sony in 2011
Quantic Dream - Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls - Started out as a multiplatform developer making games like Omikron and Fahrenheit.
Evolution Studios - Drive Club - Acquired in 2007 by Sony - started as a PC developer but wanted to get into Playstation development.
Only Media Molecule and SSM are still prominent, and by your definition, proper First-party developers for Sony making AAA titles. I realize there are various smaller developers doing PSN games for Sony, but I haven't seen very many of them actually started by Sony.

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Also, you completely missed the point of his post.
Also, no idea what you mean by 'Only Media Molecule and SSM are still prominent'.

 

[bidguy]

MS confirms Tomb Raider exclusivity "has a duration".

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...b-raider-xbox-exclusivity-deal-has-a-duration

cross gen ugh

 

[mangochutney]

Boom!.....is what I would say if the same weren't true for Sony.
Let's Look at many of Sony's "First Party" Studios.....
Guerrilla Games - Killzone Series - Started out as a Multi-Platform Developer making Shellshock:Nam '67 on Xbox/PS2/PC - Bought by Sony
Insomniac Games - Ratchet and Clank - Not owned by Sony but responsible for 1 of Sony's longest running franchises
Naughty Dog - Uncharted, Jak and Daxter and Last of Us - Started as a 3DO developer. Remember Way of the Warrior?
Sucker Punch - Sly and Infamous - Started with a game called Rocket on N64 - acquired by Sony in 2011
Quantic Dream - Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls - Started out as a multiplatform developer making games like Omikron and Fahrenheit.
Evolution Studios - Drive Club - Acquired in 2007 by Sony - started as a PC developer but wanted to get into Playstation development.
Only Media Molecule and SSM are still prominent, and by your definition, proper First-party developers for Sony making AAA titles. I realize there are various smaller developers doing PSN games for Sony, but I haven't seen very many of them actually started by Sony.

One more thing. Microsoft is in the videogame industry to make money. As is Sony and Nintendo.
It's ridiculous to think that Microsoft didn't bring anything to the table. They innovated by making broadband a standard. Bringing small studios into the industry by creating XBox Live. XNA was pretty cool and was less cost prohibitive than Sony's Net Yaroze.
The fact is, the gaming industry is better with more competition.
I understand the hatred for something like the Tomb Raider situation, but this is business. If Sony could afford it, they would do the same. MGS4 was only on PS3. There were previous ones on PC and Nintendo platforms. I know it's been said before, but Sony paid to keep Tomb Raider 2 off of the Saturn.
It's a Dog eat dog world and it sucks that we have to pay for it. But before you rail against one company, make sure it doesn't apply to the one you are essentially comparing it to.

Their point is not just that they just go around buying everything they want up, it is that they mishandle what they go on to buy, and that really the only studio putting out grade A games time and time again is T10.

The studios you listed continued in the same way they started, they didn't get run into the ground. Though some Sony studios have suffered that fate, it has to be said.

And what do you mean they made broadband a standard?

 

[Sendou]

I wonder what they hoped to accomplish by being so goddamn vague with the initial reveal. Annoying people?

 

[MilesTeg]

The game will probably launch on PS4 by March 2016. They will want to release it by the end of fiscal year 2015.

 

[LiK]

I wonder what they hoped to accomplish by being so goddamn vague with the initial reveal. Annoying people?

Hyping for preorders/console sales

 

[Marvel]

Good, it's timed.

I got all pissed off for no reason.

 

[Sez]

Boom!.....is what I would say if the same weren't true for Sony.
Let's Look at many of Sony's "First Party" Studios.....
Guerrilla Games - Killzone Series - Started out as a Multi-Platform Developer making Shellshock:Nam '67 on Xbox/PS2/PC - Bought by Sony
Insomniac Games - Ratchet and Clank - Not owned by Sony but responsible for 1 of Sony's longest running franchises
Naughty Dog - Uncharted, Jak and Daxter and Last of Us - Started as a 3DO developer. Remember Way of the Warrior?
Sucker Punch - Sly and Infamous - Started with a game called Rocket on N64 - acquired by Sony in 2011
Quantic Dream - Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls - Started out as a multiplatform developer making games like Omikron and Fahrenheit.
Evolution Studios - Drive Club - Acquired in 2007 by Sony - started as a PC developer but wanted to get into Playstation development.
Only Media Molecule and SSM are still prominent, and by your definition, proper First-party developers for Sony making AAA titles. I realize there are various smaller developers doing PSN games for Sony, but I haven't seen very many of them actually started by Sony.

One more thing. Microsoft is in the videogame industry to make money. As is Sony and Nintendo.
It's ridiculous to think that Microsoft didn't bring anything to the table. They innovated by making broadband a standard. Bringing small studios into the industry by creating XBox Live. XNA was pretty cool and was less cost prohibitive than Sony's Net Yaroze.
The fact is, the gaming industry is better with more competition.
I understand the hatred for something like the Tomb Raider situation, but this is business. If Sony could afford it, they would do the same. MGS4 was only on PS3. There were previous ones on PC and Nintendo platforms. I know it's been said before, but Sony paid to keep Tomb Raider 2 off of the Saturn.
It's a Dog eat dog world and it sucks that we have to pay for it. But before you rail against one company, make sure it doesn't apply to the one you are essentially comparing it to.

And you do not notice that all this developers have freedom to do whatever game they want?

Sucker Punch is working on a new IP after Infamous and Sly Cooper.
Naughty Dog made TLOU after succesful Jak and very succesful Uncharted.
Quantic Dream is working on a new IP.
Guerrilla Games is working a new IP.
Evolution Studios working on DriveClub, a new IP.
Media Molecule is working on a new IP.

All companies are on the games industry to make money, but they make money in very different ways, and in the end this is what it counts.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

I wonder what they hoped to accomplish by being so goddamn vague with the initial reveal. Annoying people?

Well, it gives the impression it was exclusive, and you'd need a Xbox One to play it, basically.

 

[ShogunDarius]

I wonder what they hoped to accomplish by being so goddamn vague with the initial reveal. Annoying people?

to catch those that dont follow up on gaming news out, to spread the mis information that its a full exclusive in the hopes that it will get some console sales from the misinformed.

 

[AmethystEnd]

Boom!.....is what I would say if the same weren't true for Sony.
Let's Look at many of Sony's "First Party" Studios.....
Guerrilla Games - Killzone Series - Started out as a Multi-Platform Developer making Shellshock:Nam '67 on Xbox/PS2/PC - Bought by Sony
Insomniac Games - Ratchet and Clank - Not owned by Sony but responsible for 1 of Sony's longest running franchises
Naughty Dog - Uncharted, Jak and Daxter and Last of Us - Started as a 3DO developer. Remember Way of the Warrior?
Sucker Punch - Sly and Infamous - Started with a game called Rocket on N64 - acquired by Sony in 2011
Quantic Dream - Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls - Started out as a multiplatform developer making games like Omikron and Fahrenheit.
Evolution Studios - Drive Club - Acquired in 2007 by Sony - started as a PC developer but wanted to get into Playstation development.
Only Media Molecule and SSM are still prominent, and by your definition, proper First-party developers for Sony making AAA titles. I realize there are various smaller developers doing PSN games for Sony, but I haven't seen very many of them actually started by Sony.

One more thing. Microsoft is in the videogame industry to make money. As is Sony and Nintendo.
It's ridiculous to think that Microsoft didn't bring anything to the table. They innovated by making broadband a standard. Bringing small studios into the industry by creating XBox Live. XNA was pretty cool and was less cost prohibitive than Sony's Net Yaroze.
The fact is, the gaming industry is better with more competition.
I understand the hatred for something like the Tomb Raider situation, but this is business. If Sony could afford it, they would do the same. MGS4 was only on PS3. There were previous ones on PC and Nintendo platforms. I know it's been said before, but Sony paid to keep Tomb Raider 2 off of the Saturn.
It's a Dog eat dog world and it sucks that we have to pay for it. But before you rail against one company, make sure it doesn't apply to the one you are essentially comparing it to.

Way to completely miss the point of the post.

Every single one of those Sony studios you listed is still making great games. Drek's post was that Microsoft bought studios and yet their only true original first party IP that has had success is Forza. Seriously. Your post did nothing but show that Sony's handling of first party studios is almost incomparably better than what Microsoft has done with their first party.

 

[Kayhan]

Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

Where is the up-vote button?

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Good, it's timed.

I got all pissed off for no reason.

Same. Everyone move along, nothing to see here. Just MS' garbage PR department

 

[N.Domixis]

Rise of the Tomb Raider is coming to both Xbox One and Xbox 360

Not sure if there ever was any doubt but there you go.



Thanks for taking the time to write this down.

Fuck, why are we still having cross gen into 2015! Fuck this gen,

 

[Nicktendo86]

Drek's post missed Viva Pinata under the Rare section, so is invalid.

Spoiler

I agree with him, although my 360 was by far my most played console last gen

 

[cameron]

The cat is out of the bag

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph

Well there it is.

Also, I dislike the way Phil repeats himself. Tell us some more about how you don't own TR.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Boom!.....is what I would say if the same weren't true for Sony.
Let's Look at many of Sony's "First Party" Studios.....
Guerrilla Games - Killzone Series - Started out as a Multi-Platform Developer making Shellshock:Nam '67 on Xbox/PS2/PC - Bought by Sony
Insomniac Games - Ratchet and Clank - Not owned by Sony but responsible for 1 of Sony's longest running franchises
Naughty Dog - Uncharted, Jak and Daxter and Last of Us - Started as a 3DO developer. Remember Way of the Warrior?
Sucker Punch - Sly and Infamous - Started with a game called Rocket on N64 - acquired by Sony in 2011
Quantic Dream - Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls - Started out as a multiplatform developer making games like Omikron and Fahrenheit.
Evolution Studios - Drive Club - Acquired in 2007 by Sony - started as a PC developer but wanted to get into Playstation development.
Only Media Molecule and SSM are still prominent, and by your definition, proper First-party developers for Sony making AAA titles. I realize there are various smaller developers doing PSN games for Sony, but I haven't seen very many of them actually started by Sony.

One more thing. Microsoft is in the videogame industry to make money. As is Sony and Nintendo.
It's ridiculous to think that Microsoft didn't bring anything to the table. They innovated by making broadband a standard. Bringing small studios into the industry by creating XBox Live. XNA was pretty cool and was less cost prohibitive than Sony's Net Yaroze.
The fact is, the gaming industry is better with more competition.
I understand the hatred for something like the Tomb Raider situation, but this is business. If Sony could afford it, they would do the same. MGS4 was only on PS3. There were previous ones on PC and Nintendo platforms. I know it's been said before, but Sony paid to keep Tomb Raider 2 off of the Saturn.
It's a Dog eat dog world and it sucks that we have to pay for it. But before you rail against one company, make sure it doesn't apply to the one you are essentially comparing it to.

Agreed. It's not personal. It's business. PeopleClapping.gif

 

[icespide]

The cat is out of the bag

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph

well there ya go. more bulkshit cagey PR speak as well

 

[Sendou]

Well, it gives the impression it was exclusive, and you'd need a Xbox One to play it, basically.

For a very short period of time.

to catch those that dont follow up on gaming news out, to spread the mis information that its a full exclusive in the hopes that it will get some console sales from the misinformed.

I wonder how succesful that tactic would be.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

MS confirms Tomb Raider exclusivity "has a duration".

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...b-raider-xbox-exclusivity-deal-has-a-duration

The cat is out of the bag

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...er&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialoomph

Fucking good, based CBOAT / Shinobi