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Rise of the Tomb Raider timed Xbox exclusive for Holiday 2015 (No PS/PC, SE publish)

Not sure if posted but this should be added to the IP.

Rise of the Tomb Raider Exclusivity Deal 'has a duration'



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-08-13-microsoft-confirms-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-xbox-exclusivity-deal-has-a-duration

This seems like a good response that is obviously what I wanted to hear. I didn't expect them to talk about the money spent, just fucking tell us if it's timed or not. All contract bs aside, they all have to say it regardless.

I'm glad the note towards the end did touch on the fact that gamers are blaming Square before MS because that's how I see it. I'm not mad at MS, I'm pissed at Square. That's it.
 
Yes all of these studios are successful with multiple IPs and a number of them have gotten money to create lossleading but experimental new games. GG Sony I'd say.


The difference in outlook is that MS doesn't stimulate indie because they are interested in experimental games that shake up game design conventions. MS doesn't give a shit about those kinds of things. Self-publishing on their marketplace just means they get a bigger cut. MS doesn't care about games.
Nintendo has a vision about games. Digital play, healthy lifestyles, bringing families together. Sony stimulates artsy games, funds thatgamecompany to make games that break outside of regular game conventions. What vision MS had on games is long gone. They make safe stabs at greatest common denominator genres because they're only interested in quantities of people; they're not interested in games but in advertisements, licensing and subscriptions.

I'd rather competition was between gaming philosophies, e.g. Sony and Nintendo.

Do you honestly think that Sony and Nintendo's first priority is to stimulate indie development and make games that are artsy and break out of the norm? Their shareholders would happily disagree with you. They are there to make money. Now, saying that, I agree that Sony and Nintendo DO reinvest some of the money they make to make these types of games much more than Microsoft. But that doesn't mean there isn't a place in the industry for them. Look at the movie industry. For every Boyhood or Chef, there are Transformers and Hunger Games movies. Obviously there are markets for both types of movies even though the indie flicks are usually better than the latter examples. Just saying there is a place in the market for all 3 companies and we shouldn't discount any of them from the industry.
 

catmario

Member
Uhh... Guys?

f4qqSUq.jpg


As Phil says, Rise of Tomb raider also slated for Xbox 360.

Yeah, This is xbox platform exclusive.

(EDIT: Sorry, I just want to say about XBOX PLATFORM, not "Timed". Sorry for confuse.)
 

shandy706

Member
Uhh... Guys?

f4qqSUq.jpg


As Phil says, Rise of Tomb raider also slated for Xbox 360.

Yeah, This is timed xbox platform exclusive.

I'm sure it is timed (even if it's a year or more), but what does that image show that tells us anything?

Am I missing something?

A screensaver doesn't signal anything.
 

catmario

Member
I'm sure it is timed (even if it's a year or more), but what does that image show that tells us anything?

Am I missing something?

A screensaver doesn't signal anything.

Yep. There is no timed exclusive mentions.

Just I want to say "XBOX PLATFORM EXCLUSIVE", NOT XBOX ONE EXCLUSIVE.

Sorry for confuse.
 
People on the internet, including GAF, tend to jump to the (usually negative) conclusion and overreact. People should really learn to read between the lines, marketing speak has been used for ages in the gaming industry.

I'm sorry but how is it my business to read between the lines? It's in the company's best interest to relay the clearest massage they can to the potential buyer not to confuse the shit out of them. This backlash comes exactly from that, the confused message they put out to the masses and that's exactly the reaction they deserve. MS keeps saying they need to be more clear so their message is understood but every since the X1 announcement that message has been anything but clear and it continues with TR game (including all the parties involved).
 
oh please.

I kind of don't know how to address my annoyance with your tone without going on a rant. So, for starters, I want to make it clear: I'm not a platform warrior of any kind. Not the PC, not Nintendo, not iOS, not Sony, and surely NOT Microsoft. As it pertains to the latter. I don't have an Xbox One. I'm not planning on getting one any time in the near future. While I have a 360, it was the last platform I got last gen, and has spent the better part of 4 years now in a closet. The only times I busted it out were in October of last year to play Just Dance with a used Kinect I bought for my wife after she saw Conan's Clueless Gamer review of it, and about a month before that to play Halo 1 for one night. Since about November, it's been back in the closet.

Meanwhile, I own a PS4, got a PS3 within six months of its release, got a PS2 on launch day, and got a PS1 the first Christmas it was out. I also have a Vita and a PSP. So, I want to make it clear that I have no ax to grind against Sony. I am not someone cruising in here to take glee in the console wars so that I can make drive-by posts about "LOL I could melt the polar ice caps with all dat salt amirite LOLZ take that Sony ponies!" I thought my initial post was reasonable.

Here was my first post that you replied to again:
Honestly, "pissed off" strikes me as a bit excessive. I'd stop at "being bummed" as being a response I can empathize with. Honestly, if it were up to me, every game could come out on every platform possible and I'd be happy. But when large corporations are competing directly against each other for a share of the same pie, I've been in this hobby long enough to understand that investments for exclusivity come with the territory. And I'm not saying that everyone else can't draw their own lines on what is and isn't acceptable, but I personally don't see it as a very fruitful exercise to try and delineate between which partnerships were on the up-and-up and which are sleazeball moves made by greedy executives in smoke-filled board rooms wherein I clearly am referring to the kind of smoke that can only come from expensive cigars lit with one hundred dollar bills.

I tried to take a nuanced stance, even though I understand that some are going to feel the right to be indignant all the same. Personally, I feel like analyzing deals like this are complex. When trying to ascertain what is and isn't fair, I feel like we can go back and forth all day with "on the one hand there's this" and "but on the other hand there's that" type claims and comparisons that are kind of close but don't quite fit. But at the end of the day, I think we do all agree that it's not out of line for first parties to invest into the development of third party games with the expectation of some benefits for their own platform to result, right? Again, I'm not launching into some sort of "you're a hypocrite if you supported scenario X in the past but are against this" argumentation. But I do feel like it's similar enough to so many other exclusivity deals that exist in gaming and general retail at large that it just feels like business as usual to me, even if it's not exactly the same thing as any of numerous other examples of exclusivity I can cite.

Further, the suspicion that it's just a timed exclusive also makes it harder for me to get on board with the notion that consumers should be fired up here. Fans of Sony platforms that want to play Tomb Raider on their Sony hardware are almost certainly still going to get the chance to play this game, just not as soon as they'd like. Do I think they need to be happy about this and pre-order the late port anyway? No. I conceded that I felt like they had the right to be bummed. I understand completely why seeing these kinds of moves don't make fans happy, because it doesn't have anything to do with making a better game or getting the game out into as many fans' hands as possible. But, I felt my position was reasonable. Enter you:

Would you be upset if the largest grocery store chain in your town paid the dairy companies to keep milk, cheese, and butter out of every other grocery store? Just business right, oh wait that would be illegal.

What really bothers me about this post is not the bad analogy (and it is bad) in as much as the way you conclude it in such a snarky fashion after failing to articulate the point. Granted, you did expound on where you were going with it in your most recent reply:

Market dominating firms, of which microsoft is one albeit not in gaming, cannot use their position and unmatched resources to restrict competitors' access to markets and products because it hurts consumers and is anti-competitive. It is easier to see this when not using emotionally charged examples, hence dairy.

And I can understand the ultimate point you were alluding to. However, I still don't think this is an apt comparison. I understand why buying up exclusive rights is not a general practice that we should cheer on, and I'm not saying that we should cheer on this one. For the umpteenth time, I'll reiterate that I understand consumers finding this distasteful. But we're concerned about companies starting monopolies and strong-arming competition out with unfair practices. We're particularly concerned about that as it relates to commodities like food.

So, yes, a store buying up all the dairy so that no other store has any would obviously be bad. But that's not the situation here. We're not talking about a store buying up all the dairy, we're talking about buying up all the dairy products available from one dairy. No store I go to only has one brand of milk, cheese, butter, etc. So (and I'm going to use local examples here), it's like finding out that I have to switch to Dean's brand milk now because Schnuck's bought up the exclusive rights to Prairie Farms

And it's not even that. MS didn't get exclusive access to all Square Enix games, just this one. And it's not even exclusive forever, just for an undisclosed period of time. So given that, I don't think it's absurd to write off your analogy as asinine. Further, I want to stress that my harshness in that assertion is a direct response to what I thought was a bad faith post on your part. I don't expect you to high five me and praise every post I make, but I honestly thought I explained myself quite reasonably, only to be met with a pithy, snarky post that didn't seem to think it was worth the effort to address my perspective earnestly.
 

Drek

Member
Sad that you spent so much time and effort on an extremely one-sided post.

MS bring nothing other than money? Get the fuck out of here. Microsoft brought competition that this industry sorely needed because Nintendo dropped the ball with both the GCN and Wii.
Took like 10 minutes bro, I type FAST.

1. The Wii kicked the shit out of both the PS3 and Xbox 360, so how did Nintendo drop the ball by releasing a platform with major mass market penetration? We might have actually seen significant industry growth into non-traditional demographics if 3rd parties actually backed up the Wii with top tier software.

2. The competition vacuum will always fill itself in. If Microsoft wasn't so clearly joining the fray Sega might have felt more confident making a successor to the Dreamcast. If they were to drop out now I'd bet on Amazon and/or Samsung moving to fill the void by the start of next generation.

More importantly, video games are media and compete in a larger market for consumer expendable income and free time with movies, books, music, and especially with games on smart devices.

The "competition" argument is nothing more than a strawman. MS wasn't a legitimate competitor when Sony released the single most successful, most industry beneficial platform of all time with the PS2. The hardware was for the time relatively obtuse (though now multi-core arch is standard) but provided a level of technical control that resulted in games far surpassing what we all expected from the silicon (like super sampling for anti-aliasing in Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance). All third parties were welcome, royalties were the only cost of entry. Sony didn't try to muscle people out of the way of their titles. In short when Sony dominated the market they ran things with a truly laissez-faire attitude that benefited everyone.

In fact, Microsoft has been overtly anti-competitive of late towards indies, due to their previously strict publishing criteria that forced all indies to work with established publishers. Meanwhile Sony was open to self publishing, and as a result Sony has scooped up a ton of free "exclusives" entirely thanks to not being dicks. So how did MS help competition there by driving small devs into Sony's open arms?

Look, I've owned both the first Xbox and an Xbox 360. I bought an Xbox before a Gamecube that generation, about a month after release, and then got all my 3rd party titles on it. Loved the system as Microsoft went out of their way to court PC developers which gave a different feel to the library. I bought the 360 before all the other systems last generation and bought most of my 3rd party games there as well. I've wanted MS to succeed in this industry from day one because if they were to honestly engage with us gamers some amazing things could result from it.

Instead they continue to try finding alternative ways to monetize the gaming industry instead of simply servicing gamers. Sony had horrible 1st party support on the PS1 and relied entirely on 3rd party exclusives (gained through more friendly hardware than Saturn, cheaper media and royalties than N64, and a healthy marketing partnership budget), but come the PS2 generation they used their strong market position to begin building their 1st party. They started working with Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, made Level 5 what they are today, etc. etc. and came out the other side with a very respectable first party stable that outright saved them and made a PS3 worth owning last generation.

All I'm saying is that if Microsoft isn't willing to do the same thing, which they clearly weren't when a very similar position presented itself mid-last generation and they instead shuttered studios, they aren't adding value to the industry. At least from the standpoint of the gamer. Maybe 3rd parties because they can get those fast cash handouts, but for gamers they aren't bringing us enough new content and aren't showing any long term commitments to the industry.

Even the fully funded, MS published exclusives like Sunset and Scalebound are 3rd party developers on one-off deals that MS can walk away from just like they did to Crackdown. They really had something there and instead of recognizing it late in development and signing Realtime Worlds up for a sequel they let it slip by, RtW got another project, and Crackdown 2 was a cobbled together mess.

The tl;dr version: stop buying exclusives, start making your own games. If they lack the first party muscle to do it themselves then buy software studios who need a hand. Yager has been scuffling to find consistent funding, show a commitment by buying the studio and letting them make something totally new. The ex-Vigil guys are homeless once again, why not scoop them up and make an all new 3rd person action game (or buy Darksiders an actually save a franchise a la Nintendo and Bayonetta)? I could go on. Talent is out there. 3rd parties are gun shy when it comes to funding the tier just shy of AAA, so do what Sony did during the PS2 era and scoop up a bunch of those studios for entirely new IPs. Stop buying games OFF other systems and buy new IPs ON your system.
 

Vlade

Member
There is so much caring about the exclusivity, as if we expect so greatly that these two pieces of hardware are completely redundant. Why again is it that we wanted consoles to all be the same and have cross platform games to begin with? games are not a commodity like music.

I don't like things that are anticonsumer, I don't like deceptive pr statements. i dont like this expectation that consoles should be the same.
[/soapbox]
 

coldone

Member
Yes all of these studios are successful with multiple IPs and a number of them have gotten money to create lossleading but experimental new games. GG Sony I'd say.


The difference in outlook is that MS doesn't stimulate indie because they are interested in experimental games that shake up game design conventions. MS doesn't give a shit about those kinds of things. Self-publishing on their marketplace just means they get a bigger cut. MS doesn't care about games.
Nintendo has a vision about games. Digital play, healthy lifestyles, bringing families together. Sony stimulates artsy games, funds thatgamecompany to make games that break outside of regular game conventions. What vision MS had on games is long gone. They make safe stabs at greatest common denominator genres because they're only interested in quantities of people; they're not interested in games but in advertisements, licensing and subscriptions.

I'd rather competition was between gaming philosophies, e.g. Sony and Nintendo.

It is not like Sony is all about Original Innovative games. They are ones who make LBP Karting, PS All Stars and so many copy cat games. No one in the industry is out to create magic. They are all in business to make money. Try to get the best possible return on investment, while building the brand for long term.
 

Chitown B

Member
The tl;dr version: stop buying exclusives, start making your own games. If they lack the first party muscle to do it themselves then buy software studios who need a hand. Yager has been scuffling to find consistent funding, show a commitment by buying the studio and letting them make something totally new. The ex-Vigil guys are homeless once again, why not scoop them up and make an all new 3rd person action game (or buy Darksiders an actually save a franchise a la Nintendo and Bayonetta)? I could go on. Talent is out there. 3rd parties are gun shy when it comes to funding the tier just shy of AAA, so do what Sony did during the PS2 era and scoop up a bunch of those studios for entirely new IPs. Stop buying games OFF other systems and buy new IPs ON your system.

I would imagine from a business and $$$$ standpoint, it's much less risky to let other devs do the work and then buy the finished product rather than hope your own people make a good game.
 

VampMuse

Neo Member
ummm...no. I understand full well what the point of the post was. What I am saying is that the case can be made for Sony as well. Microsoft has funded many new IP's that have or are going to be successful. Just because they weren't as successful doesn't make them any less important to the industry. They've funded Alan Wake and Quantum Break from Remedy(not owned by MS). Sunset Overdrive from Insomniac(Not owned by MS) Dance Central Games from Harmonix(Not owned by MS) etc. They've had some issues, no question, but to just say they shouldn't be in the business and they have brought nothing to the table is naive and just plain ridiculous,

The fact you think you understand it and then continue with that dribble shows you don't. And don't even get me started on Alan Wake .. the game that was "canceled" for the PC so that people like me who really wanted it would buy a fucking 360 and then oh magically we're going to go ahead and put it on the PC to make more money now.

But you're still missing his point, go back and reread all the other posts about how you missed the point, I'm not here to educate.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Are you new to video games? The way Microsoft and CD Handled it, is literally the way every platform holder in existence has handled it.

Yeah...for starters, people have had issues with third party multiplat exclusives for a long time. In recent years, they've become less and less frequent, since games are too costly, and there was more money to be made selling your game on all platforms.

The distinction here, which is very important (something people don't seem to understand), is that this is a major franchise, and it's a sequel (with the first game having been big and played by the majority of people on other platforms)....

Not that hard to understand why people are upset. I'm totally 100% okay if you don't agree. But at least understand why people are mad. Why people see this as more shady than usual third party multiplat exclusives. Why people see this different then an exclusive new IP. Again, this deal cuts out the majority of the players that played the first game, and is blocking them from continuing the story by cutting off the sequel to the majority of gamers.


But as I said before, if Sony had done this...it would still be scummy. Even though the majority of players that played TR were on Sony Platforms, securing this exclusive would still block out players on 360/X1 and PC who already played the first game, and want to continue the story. So just because Sony has the majority of TR's fan base, it would still be scummy as hell.

EDIT: I've just read Steve Youngblood's reply. It's well thought out and articulate, and I think he makes a lot of great points. I will just say this, I agree that these kind of deals are complex. I agree that there is consumer/emotion vs. company/business (I've argued in the past, that I think this is actually a bad business decision though). Regardless where you fall on this, I don't think it's that hard to understand why fans would be upset that they can't finish a sequel to a series they've started. Apply this situation to a film or TV series, and you can imagine how pissed off the audience would be if half way into something, they are told they can't finish what they started unless they pony up $400.
 

aaronobst

Neo Member
Jesus christ, cross-gen games into late 2015 and early 2016? why?

Because well established Install base = MONEY. It certainly doesn't inspire confidence in how good games are going to appear visually by that time, not compared what they could be.


Also the avatar, Katya Lischina:

1376450073753.jpg
 
Not sure if posted but this should be added to the IP.

Rise of the Tomb Raider Exclusivity Deal 'has a duration'



http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-08-13-microsoft-confirms-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-xbox-exclusivity-deal-has-a-duration

Finally, something that isn't vague. Makes me glad too, I enjoyed the reboot and was looking forward to the sequel. But after all of that went down the last couple of days, SE and CD made sure that I won't be picking up this game at full retail price when it's finally available on PS4. Shame, it would've been a first day pick up if it wasn't a times exclusive.
 

Chitown B

Member
<5e6 as far as we know.

what's 5e6?

So far as I've seen, there haven't been solid numbers in 2-3 months. It's hard to know what the total is other than "it's less than Sony." Which, who cares? There's always one system leading in a two system race.

Finally, something that isn't vague. Makes me glad too, I enjoyed the reboot and was looking forward to the sequel. But after all of that went down the last couple of days, SE and CD made sure that I won't be picking up this game at full retail price when it's finally available on PS4. Shame, it would've been a first day pick up if it wasn't a times exclusive.

What? Now you're basing your purchase plans on being salty that it's timed? Sounds logical.
 

catmario

Member
Anyway, I have no interest in dat exclusive debate.

Just I want to play this game as fast as possible.

So Xbox one is my choice. :p
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
[...] If they lack the first party muscle to do it themselves then buy software studios who need a hand. Yager has been scuffling to find consistent funding, show a commitment by buying the studio and letting them make something totally new. The ex-Vigil guys are homeless once again, why not scoop them up and make an all new 3rd person action game (or buy Darksiders an actually save a franchise a la Nintendo and Bayonetta)? I could go on. Talent is out there. 3rd parties are gun shy when it comes to funding the tier just shy of AAA, so do what Sony did during the PS2 era and scoop up a bunch of those studios for entirely new IPs. Stop buying games OFF other systems and buy new IPs ON your system.
This so much.

If Microsoft purchased struggling independent developers that are open to acquisitions and then made new ideas that are considered too risky by big multiplatform publishers to then make risky games for the sole purpose of diversifying their game portfolio on their current generation console that would be fucking awesome.
 
what's 5e6?

So far as I've seen, there haven't been solid numbers in 2-3 months. It's hard to know what the total is other than "it's less than Sony." Which, who cares? There's always one system leading in a two system race.

Yea we have no solid numbers our best guess at the moment is around 5 million.

1e6 = 1x10^6 = 1 000 000
 

goonergaz

Member
seems so few saw the obvious message - as I said it was worded very cleverly to say 'holiday 2015 on Xbox platforms' but being vague enough for folk to assume Xbox One exclusive for the forseeable future.
 

coldone

Member
Jesus christ, cross-gen games into late 2015 and early 2016? why?

Sony makes LBP3: Great company they keep supporting their console and install base. MS is terrible they abandon the user base.

MS gets Tombraider on 360: Geesh. They are idiots and why are they supporting old consoles. Look at Sony they have ported all the PS3 games from Journey to Last of US to PS4

There is no way for MS to win. If you dont support your console.. you are betrayer. If you support your console .. you are a idiot.
 

spekkeh

Banned
Do you honestly think that Sony and Nintendo's first priority is to stimulate indie development and make games that are artsy and break out of the norm?

It is not like Sony is all about Original Innovative games. They are ones who make LBP Karting, PS All Stars and so many copy cat games. No one in the industry is out to create magic. They are all in business to make money. Try to get the best possible return on investment, while building the brand for long term.

Sorry if that was how it came across, of course such a thing wouldn't even be sustainable. Of course they are in it to make money too; what I meant was that, aside from that, they seem to care a bit about the product they're making, trying to foster it by also creating different style games that do not necessarily make a lot of money. This may entirely be because Nintendo doesn't have anything else and Sony really needs their game division to succeed long term too. There's no Miramax to Microsoft's Disney conversely. You feel they're not there to grow the game industry, but to grow their entertainment shop. Though who knows, Spencer and ID@Xbox may genuinely mark a turning point.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Also I think they own Quantum Break this time round.

I would have no issue with Quantum Break. As I said earlier:

If Bioshock had come out on all platforms, was a big success, and then Sony made the sequel exclusive to PS3 (thus cutting off everyone that played the first game, and now can't play the sequel)...I would say that's scummy as hell. If Bioshock was made exclusive by MS as a new IP (meaning, the first title ONLY came out on 360, so ONLY 360 fans played it)...I would be okay with it.

I have no issue with major companies investing in new IP, or making new IP exclusive. I had no issue with Titanfall. I do think it's scummy as hell for them to make a deal that hurts the majority of consumers (since a series with a sequel, means that consumers that participated in the series are now being impacted by said deal).
 

VampMuse

Neo Member
Took like 10 minutes bro, I type FAST.

1. The Wii kicked the shit out of both the PS3 and Xbox 360, so how did Nintendo drop the ball by releasing a platform with major mass market penetration? We might have actually seen significant industry growth into non-traditional demographics if 3rd parties actually backed up the Wii with top tier software.

2. The competition vacuum will always fill itself in. If Microsoft wasn't so clearly joining the fray Sega might have felt more confident making a successor to the Dreamcast. If they were to drop out now I'd bet on Amazon and/or Samsung moving to fill the void by the start of next generation.

More importantly, video games are media and compete in a larger market for consumer expendable income and free time with movies, books, music, and especially with games on smart devices.

The "competition" argument is nothing more than a strawman. MS wasn't a legitimate competitor when Sony released the single most successful, most industry beneficial platform of all time with the PS2. The hardware was for the time relatively obtuse (though now multi-core arch is standard) but provided a level of technical control that resulted in games far surpassing what we all expected from the silicon (like super sampling for anti-aliasing in Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance). All third parties were welcome, royalties were the only cost of entry. Sony didn't try to muscle people out of the way of their titles. In short when Sony dominated the market they ran things with a truly laissez-faire attitude that benefited everyone.

In fact, Microsoft has been overtly anti-competitive of late towards indies, due to their previously strict publishing criteria that forced all indies to work with established publishers. Meanwhile Sony was open to self publishing, and as a result Sony has scooped up a ton of free "exclusives" entirely thanks to not being dicks. So how did MS help competition there by driving small devs into Sony's open arms?

Look, I've owned both the first Xbox and an Xbox 360. I bought an Xbox before a Gamecube that generation, about a month after release, and then got all my 3rd party titles on it. Loved the system as Microsoft went out of their way to court PC developers which gave a different feel to the library. I bought the 360 before all the other systems last generation and bought most of my 3rd party games there as well. I've wanted MS to succeed in this industry from day one because if they were to honestly engage with us gamers some amazing things could result from it.

Instead they continue to try finding alternative ways to monetize the gaming industry instead of simply servicing gamers. Sony had horrible 1st party support on the PS1 and relied entirely on 3rd party exclusives (gained through more friendly hardware than Saturn, cheaper media and royalties than N64, and a healthy marketing partnership budget), but come the PS2 generation they used their strong market position to begin building their 1st party. They started working with Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, made Level 5 what they are today, etc. etc. and came out the other side with a very respectable first party stable that outright saved them and made a PS3 worth owning last generation.

All I'm saying is that if Microsoft isn't willing to do the same thing, which they clearly weren't when a very similar position presented itself mid-last generation and they instead shuttered studios, they aren't adding value to the industry. At least from the standpoint of the gamer. Maybe 3rd parties because they can get those fast cash handouts, but for gamers they aren't bringing us enough new content and aren't showing any long term commitments to the industry.

Even the fully funded, MS published exclusives like Sunset and Scalebound are 3rd party developers on one-off deals that MS can walk away from just like they did to Crackdown. They really had something there and instead of recognizing it late in development and signing Realtime Worlds up for a sequel they let it slip by, RtW got another project, and Crackdown 2 was a cobbled together mess.

The tl;dr version: stop buying exclusives, start making your own games. If they lack the first party muscle to do it themselves then buy software studios who need a hand. Yager has been scuffling to find consistent funding, show a commitment by buying the studio and letting them make something totally new. The ex-Vigil guys are homeless once again, why not scoop them up and make an all new 3rd person action game (or buy Darksiders an actually save a franchise a la Nintendo and Bayonetta)? I could go on. Talent is out there. 3rd parties are gun shy when it comes to funding the tier just shy of AAA, so do what Sony did during the PS2 era and scoop up a bunch of those studios for entirely new IPs. Stop buying games OFF other systems and buy new IPs ON your system.

This guy here gets it!
 
Sony makes LBP3: Great company they keep supporting their console and install base. MS is terrible they abandon the user base.

MS gets Tombraider on 360: Geesh. They are idiots and why are they supporting old consoles. Look at Sony they have ported all the PS3 games from Journey to Last of US to PS4

There is no way for MS to win. If you dont support your console.. you are betrayer. If you support your console .. you are a idiot.

LBP is out this year, RotTR a year later. The comparison is off.
 

Bulzeeb

Member
just wait a year more for the game of the year edition with all dlc included for every system
except wii u and vita
, just like Deus Ex and the first TR

edit:

Sony makes LBP3: Great company they keep supporting their console and install base. MS is terrible they abandon the user base.

MS gets Tombraider on 360: Geesh. They are idiots and why are they supporting old consoles. Look at Sony they have ported all the PS3 games from Journey to Last of US to PS4

There is no way for MS to win. If you dont support your console.. you are betrayer. If you support your console .. you are a idiot.

well it could be worst, it could have been Nintendo
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Sony makes LBP3: Great company they keep supporting their console and install base. MS is terrible they abandon the user base.

MS gets Tombraider on 360: Geesh. They are idiots and why are they supporting old consoles. Look at Sony they have ported all the PS3 games from Journey to Last of US to PS4

There is no way for MS to win. If you dont support your console.. you are betrayer. If you support your console .. you are a idiot.
Yeah, we really should be thankful to Microsoft for Tomb Raider. They are such good dudes.
 

Mononoke

Banned
I still think CD's way of handling this is hilarious too. That PR announcement was terrible. "We aren't cutting off everyone that played it on other platforms"...yeah you are, actually lol. It's crazy how CD/MS don't see how it's a bad thing cutting off everyone from an already established series and its sequel. Or if they do, they have the balls to play it off like they aren't.

Should have just kept quiet on the whole thing. But I think the reason they didn't, is because deep down they know it's bad to cut off all these people, regardless of the short term benefits of this deal.
 
what's 5e6?

So far as I've seen, there haven't been solid numbers in 2-3 months. It's hard to know what the total is other than "it's less than Sony." Which, who cares? There's always one system leading in a two system race.



What? Now you're basing your purchase plans on being salty that it's timed? Sounds logical.

I'm not salty at all but that's how I justify it when a company kicks so many fans, including me, in the balls by hiding it that it's a timed exclusive. If they pull crap like this I will also vote with my wallet and that is how I decide to go about it. If it's illogical to you fine but I don't care ;)
 
I still think CD's way of handling this is hilarious too. That PR announcement was terrible. "We aren't cutting off everyone that played it on other platforms"...yeah you are, actually lol. It's crazy how CD/MS don't see how it's a bad thing cutting off everyone from an already established series and its sequel. Or if they do, they have the balls to play it off like they aren't.

It's a pretty boilerplate sentiment. It's trying to balance the conflicting goals of both: A) adhering to whatever deal they struck with MS, and B) stressing that the franchise as a whole isn't going MS-exclusive. I'm not saying that it's crafted masterfully by any stretch, but it's about the only thing that can be stated, and something has to be stated. It's not like someone in his position is going to come out and write something like "Fuck you PS fans, I got mine (this is where I drop the mic)."
 

SeanTSC

Member
what's 5e6?

So far as I've seen, there haven't been solid numbers in 2-3 months. It's hard to know what the total is other than "it's less than Sony." Which, who cares? There's always one system leading in a two system race.



What? Now you're basing your purchase plans on being salty that it's timed? Sounds logical.

I think the last "official" sales number was 3.3 million sold. The last official shipped was 5 million in April and then they shipped 1.1 million combined X360+Xbox One consoles in the last quarter and we have no idea what that split is. Best guess is sales are around 5 million, but it's possible it's less.
 

abadguy

Banned
If only there was this much "outrage" at Sony during the PS2 era when nearly every third party game was kept off the DC Xbox and Gamecube. When even some third party exclusives on the xbox that would have the sequels go to the PS2 with no xbox version of said sequel. Oh yeah i forgot the "PS2 sold a lot so it's ok" excuse.

I wonder how many of the angry people condemning SE and MS right now would be angry and condemning SE and Sony had things gone a different way. MS isn't the only corporation with money, Sony isn't a fucking non profit organisation either last i checked. In fact didn't they recently "moneyhat destiny DLC" for a year?

As an xbox owner i am fairly indifferent to TR being exclusive. I am more looking foward to SO, Scalebound and Phantom Dust nevermind Halo but.i may get it if its good.( I have yet to finish the remaster)
 

goonergaz

Member
Look at Sony they have ported all the PS3 games from Journey to Last of US to PS4

Other than 'all the PS3 games' comment (lol) - how dare Sony bring us the best game of last gen so all those who played before can enjoy the game at a much better resolution and frame-rate and how dare they give non PS3 owners (ie people who jumped from XB360 to PS4) the opportunity to play the best game of last gen.

How very dare they!
 

Comet

Member
Sure you don't build a first party stable overnight, but in MS' case when they hell are they going to start?

Lets recap:
Started Turn 10, who went on to make Forza, the one truly original IP from Microsoft to ever succeed.

Bought Bungie when Halo was months from release, had them port it to Xbox, cancelling a much hyped PC version which did later arrive, not to mention the Mac version Bungie had been promising.

Purchased FASA as part of another acquisition in 1999. After doing very little with the Shadowrun and MechWarrior IPs on the Xbox family of consoles closes FASA in 2007, licences out all their worthwhile IPs to small studios.

Bought Rare in 2002, since they have mined the Perfect Dark, Banjo, and Conker IPs with zero success, made one new mascot IP for Xbox 360's launch that never got a follow up despite being a pretty solid (kid friendly) game (Kameo, FYI). Have since been largely relegated to Kinect titles, weren't even the ones who made the Killer Instinct reboot.

Purchased Lionhead in 2006. Proceeded to have them make nothing but Fable games, including a crappy Kinect Fable game. Stopped making PC versions entirely, games progressively got further and further away from the original concept for Fable. A large number of staff has been laid off over the past two years, another large group up and left with Molyneaux, which if it was anything like his departure from Bullfrog to found Lionhead constituted his core staff he's had everywhere (i.e. the real talent in the studio). Making yet another Fable game that is even further removed from the original premise.

Started up 343 studios as a replacement for Bungie when Bungie wanted out as opposed to eternally making nothing but Halo. Now 343 makes nothing but Halo, only not as well as Bungie. The game they wouldn't let Bungie make, Destiny, is now the most pre-ordered game yet. Winning?

Disbanded Ensemble Studios, Aces Studio, MS Flight Team, MS Victoria Studio (never released anything) and Carbonated Games. Have in the last several years purchased BigPark (absorbed into MS Game Studios), Twisted Pixel (who's next game was a full blown stinker), Press Play (nothing of note, so basically shuffling deck chairs with this and closing Carbonated).

Also, Black Tusk isn't new. It's Microsoft Vancouver. They just cleaned house and renamed it after Vancouver went years without finishing anything. Black Tusk is doing an admirable job keeping that history alive.

This is just a quick sample of how MS has handled their first parties. Forza is the only new IP they've generated and maintained worth a shit in their entire time as a console first party. Everything else was bought, mismanaged, and typically shuttered.

Buying their way into the industry with the Xbox with Bungie, Lionhead, etc. is one thing. Sure, you need meaningful exclusives and that was the fastest way to get them. They've been in the console business for nearly 13 years now though. The proof is in the pudding. Microsoft has never shown a commitment to developing their own legitimate first party stable. They closed much of what they did start with the Xbox during the X360 generation because Sony's failure to deliver with PS3 allowed them to pick off former exclusives and have a comparable 3rd party library at a lower price, so they weren't needed. The only significant reinvestment they've ever shown in software development was for Kinect, which they've now pulled back on nearly completely as well.

Microsoft brings nothing to this industry other than dump trucks of money. They're in the video game industry for all the wrong reasons. Making and selling video games is a secondary part of the business model and that has been the case from day one. Originally it was a Sony denial tactic. As Sony fell on hard times and the X360 emerged as a successful product they used XBL to turn it into a marketing push where their real customers were advertisers and games were just the gateway to get people in the door looking at all the ads. The XB1's original concept took this to the next level planning to have Kinect effectively mining data from within our homes while we lived around the system. Obviously the blow back was too great to continue that little project, but that was the original intent and Microsoft stated as much during a conference for their advertising partners.

Instead of this (which probably cost them $50M or better), Titanfall (which also likely cost them $50M or better) the stated NFL deal at $400M, and buying the Gears IP from Epic (likely a solid $50-$100M price tag) Microsoft could have funded over a half dozen of the biggest, most expensive AAA exclusives EVER. They gave the NFL more money for a fantasy football app than Take 2/Rockstar spent on Grand Theft Auto 5. Let that sink into your head when you excuse their lack of first party studios as "taking time".

Wow, you crystallized that which I have struggled for years to articulate.
 
So cut-off is this year for 80M consoles ?. If Sony publishes a 1st party title next year; then the cut off line will move again.... How long before you start seeing more Vita ports to PS3 and PS4 ??

I don't know where the goal post is I'm not trying to pretend I do.
And of course there is a cut off point somewhere.
Either way comparing two games regarding their cross platform releases that are more than a year apart is disingenuous.
 

RexNovis

Banned
So basically this is gist of what has occurred in the past 24 hours:

MS: Here's a PR statement designed to obfuscate and deceive you into thinking this 3rd party game is a full exclusive on our system

Gamers: What the fuck is this bullshit? You money hatted a 3rd part multiplat after it was announced as a multiplat. You shady assholes.

MS: Guys we totally aren't that bad. Please ignore our previous attempts at deceit and general dickery the exclusivity "has a duration."

Gamers: So it's timed? What's the duration?

MS: "It has a duration."

Gamers: That is the lamest non answer PR I have ever heard .... Fuck off.




"When people want me to say, can you tell us when or if it's coming to other platforms, it's not my job," Spencer told Eurogamer. "My job is not to talk about games I don't own. I have a certain relationship on this version of Tomb Raider, which we announced, and I feel really good about our long term relationship with Crystal and Square."

"I have Tomb Raider shipping next holiday exclusively on Xbox. It is Xbox 360 and Xbox One. I'm not trying to fake anybody out in terms of where this thing is. What they do with the franchise in the long run is not mine. I don't control it. So all I can talk about is the deal I have. I don't know where else Tomb Raider goes."

Uggh I cannot believe the balls on this guy. This PR garbage is sickening. You are the head of Xbox yes it is in fact your fucking job to talk about titles coming out for your system and clarify what you yourself claimed as "exclusive on Holiday 2015." You are fooling nobody with this absurd helpless nice guy act just look at the comments on the article. I swear MS has the slimiest sleaziest PR people.
 

Mononoke

Banned
It's a pretty boilerplate sentiment. It's trying to balance the conflicting goals of both: A) adhering to whatever deal they struck with MS, and B) stressing that the franchise as a whole isn't going MS-exclusive. I'm not saying that it's crafted masterfully by any stretch, but it's about the only thing that can be stated, and something has to be stated. It's not like someone in his position is going to come out and write something like "Fuck you PS fans, I got mine (this is where I drop the mic)."

Fair points. I understand why they needed to say something. But I just hated the way it was worded. It felt slimy. Like they knew the deal was bad for the overall consumer, but had to dance around and justify it.

But maybe it was a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I've seen fans rage out if a company says nothing at all. By the way, I really appreciate your posts in this thread. We don't 100% agree with each other, but I feel like you more than others, at least acknowledge why people are upset (even if you don't agree), and have engaged in conversation about it. Thanks a lot.
 
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