• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[Rumor] MS to reveal VR headset at E3 2015, Fortaleza still in the development

Status
Not open for further replies.
"The market" is still buying kinect and similar products like it. Compared to other peripherals its still very successful. And there were 3 games this Christmas who's primary use was kinect. You are overblowing its so-called "failure" here.

Its not relegated to those experiences due to hardware. It's limited by software and VR will have that same challenge, even more so.

As you said kinect has some real world applications, yet its still a failure in your eyes. But somehow due to real world applications VR will change the world.

Honestly when kinect first came out, someone could have wrote this entire post about it allmost verbatim. But we still see where it ended up.

Kinect was astonishing for the vast majority of people who tried it the first time.
Ermm what?!

How is Kinect in anyway able to do any of the examples to the same quality as VR?

+ VR in the classroom: Oh wow, I really feel like im in this battlefield watching a war…oh wait, im looking at my TV from my school desk.

+ VR conferencing: Its like we are in the same room…..oh wait, im still looking at my TV.

+ VR Sporting Events: Oh WOW, im part of the crowd at a sporting event…..oh wait, yet again im just sitting at home watching my TV.

+ VR in games: Fucking hell, im actually in a game, its so real and life like……Fuck, im still just watching TV in my living room.


Some people need to really think these things out before posting.
 

Mihos

Gold Member
Yeah, and all the 'not powerful enough ' stuff is funny to hear as well, concidering how awesome it is at 1440 using nothing but my phone.
 

Servbot24

Banned
At this point it would be more of a news story if they didn't have one.

VR sounds really cool to me, but not cool enough to drop $300 and strap some gizmo to my face.
 
Ermm what?!

How is Kinect in anyway able to do any of the examples to the same quality as VR?

+ VR in the classroom: Oh wow, I really feel like im in this battlefield watching a war…oh wait, im looking at my TV from my school desk.

+ VR conferencing: Its like we are in the same room…..oh wait, im still looking at my TV.

+ VR Sporting Events: Oh WOW, im part of the crowd at a sporting event…..oh wait, yet again im just sitting at home watching my TV.

+ VR in games: Fucking hell, im actually in a game, its so real and life like……Fuck, im still just watching TV in my living room.


Some people need to really think these things out before posting.

Honest questions from someone quite unknowledgeable about VR:

+ VR in the classroom: How would this work. Like a game where people would make historical areas to walk through? Wouldn't the class feel separated from the teacher if they were all engrossed in VR?

+ VR conferencing: Would this just essentially be a screen up next to your face rather that farther away? Or is there a special camera that would render the room in some 3-d fashion to make it "VR"? Also, I'm not sure many professionals would enjoy being seen in a VR headset.

+ VR Sporting Events: Same question as last time, how does VR work in a "live" event? Does VR in this context simply mean a screen strapped to your face? Or are there special cameras that will simulate the "VR" experience?
 
It's a short term limitation (and only applies to some people). There's a fantastic DK2 game called Windrunners that made me feel sick when I first got my DK2 as it requires running and swinging from trees like Spider-Man. A month later, and I can happily play it for 30-40 minutes without an issue. You do get your VR legs so to speak, it's just better to introduce people to VR with something not so frantic.

And of course hardware and software performance will vastly improve over the developer kits we're using now, so that'll also allow people to acclimatize much quicker. Besides, there are a million mind blowing ideas you could do in VR that don't require fast first person running.
The challenges are piling up.

Only for people who own hardware strong enough to run it
Only for people willing to spend more money on a peripheral
Only for people willing to wear something on their face
Only for people who are not prone to motion sickness or those willing to put in the time to get over it
Its a non-social experience, meaning its only fun for the primary user. Everyone else in the household is relegated to watching the user spin in circles and swing at nothingness.
Only certain game experiences work best.

All of this leads to a limited user base, which leads to devs reluctance to invest in exclusive AAA experiences, meaning most VR experiences will be limited to tacked on support to existing games, or small mini-game type stuff. Same as kinect
 
That's reserve for Nintendo products

Not sure if you got the joke...Nintendo was first with motion control and then everybody else followed suit with their "me too" products.

Same case here. PC and Sony are doing VR headsets, and now Microsoft must have their "me too" product.
 
How would vr at a sporting event even work?

? It's recorded, streamed live, you watch.

Guys, 3D/VR cameras already exist. I tried out JauntVR two months ago, I almost had a full blown panic attack watching a captured rave from the perspective of the DJ. Was crazy awesome.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Ermm what?!

How is Kinect in anyway able to do any of the examples to the same quality as VR?
Yea, I think Kinect is cool tech, but comparing it with VR as a whole is ridiculous in terms of the overall impact that they will have in the long term.

Yes, but you're also playing mobile games and watching VR panoramas/videos.

Does not compare.
If you're expecting Uncharted 4 visuals in VR, you're going to be disappointed. There's no way around the fact that graphics will be to be pared back a fair bit for VR to work on either console.

VR sounds really cool to me, but not cool enough to drop $300 and strap some gizmo to my face.
I still cant believe we're about to get real, quality VR in our home for only $300. Absolutely insane.
 
Ermm what?!

How is Kinect in anyway able to do any of the examples to the same quality as VR?

+ VR in the classroom: Oh wow, I really feel like im in this battlefield watching a war…oh wait, im looking at my TV from my school desk.

+ VR conferencing: Its like we are in the same room…..oh wait, im still looking at my TV.

+ VR Sporting Events: Oh WOW, im part of the crowd at a sporting event…..oh wait, yet again im just sitting at home watching my TV.

+ VR in games: Fucking hell, im actually in a game, its so real and life like……Fuck, im still just watching TV in my living room.


Some people need to really think these things out before posting.
Obviously the experience is different, that goes without being said. Point is there are hundreds of compelling real world applications for kinect including support for VR
 

Alx

Member
How would vr at a sporting event even work?

There would be a 360 camera somewhere in the stadium, capturing images from all directions (either from stitching images from multiple cameras, or using complex mirrors), and as you turn your head around, you will be able to look in all directions. That couldn't handle XYZ motions, though, so you couldn't simulate running across the field (I know you expected a streaker simulator ;) ).

360-degree-camera.jpg
 
If you're expecting Uncharted 4 visuals in VR, you're going to be disappointed. There's no way around the fact that graphics will be to be pared back a fair bit for VR to work on either console.

I have no hope of experiencing such things on a console. PC? No problem.
 
Not sure if you got the joke...Nintendo was first with motion control and then everybody else followed suit with their "me too" products.

Same case here. PC and Sony are doing VR headsets, and now Microsoft must have their "me too" product.
Oh i know
I said nintendo because it goes well with their Wii. Amiibo and other silly name
 
Obviously the experience is different, that goes without being said. Point is there are hundreds of compelling real world applications for kinect including support for VR
No, you said someone could have said the exact same thing for vr as kinect. They're fundamentally different and in no way be considered similar.
 

tuna_love

Banned
There would be a 360 camera somewhere in the stadium, capturing images from all directions (either from stitching images from multiple cameras, or using complex mirrors), and as you turn your head around, you will be able to look in all directions. That couldn't handle XYZ motions, though, so you couldn't simulate running across the field (I know you expected a streaker simulator ;) ).
Cheers. I Think thatd be pretty cool. Shame about no streaker simulator yet.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
It is good that MS is getting in on the act. Hopefully it is not just a console only thing, because I have no interest in that.
 

Verendus

Banned
I've had a good amount of use with VR and I welcome everyone who is involved. This stuff is pretty incredible, and I'm really excited for its future.
 
There would be a 360 camera somewhere in the stadium, capturing images from all directions (either from stitching images from multiple cameras, or using complex mirrors), and as you turn your head around, you will be able to look in all directions. That couldn't handle XYZ motions, though, so you couldn't simulate running across the field (I know you expected a streaker simulator ;) ).

So basically just a way to pan your view from a fixed point like you can do with Google Earth? I don't see that feeling very special, but I understand now.
 

Bessy67

Member
Eh, kinda wish they weren't doing VR. I don't really want another expensive peripheral, and like kinect last gen I think it would take focus away from just making good normal games.
 

Amir0x

Banned
"The market" is still buying kinect and similar products like it. Compared to other peripherals its still very successful. And there were 3 games this Christmas who's primary use was kinect. You are overblowing its so-called "failure" here.

Uh huh. They're buying it so much that it's all but been abandoned by everyone.

Good luck with that argument.

As you said kinect has some real world applications, yet its still a failure in your eyes. But somehow due to real world applications VR will change the world.

Honestly when kinect first came out, someone could have wrote this entire post about it allmost verbatim. But we still see where it ended up.

No they couldn't have and perhaps you can put some effort into intellectually describing how we could have written that post verbatim for Kinect. There is a massive disconnect in what VR can achieve and what Kinect can achieve, and we see that in software. VR is already opening new doors never before tread on. Kinect has some real applications in medical field, a few other minor things. That's good. But elsewhere, Kinect mostly just gave us slightly better versions of what we had before in party game/mini-game genre. It was a fad in which everyone moved on just like they did with wiimote.

VR effects just a gargantuan amount of fields. It's already used in military training. It's going to be used in psychiatry. In schools. In any possible realm you can think of, I can probably imagine a way VR can be a real world help.

Nobody is going to be moving on from VR. It is your future. Welcome to it.

Kinect was astonishing for the vast majority of people who tried it the first time.

lol oh boy. Yeah so astonishing the market demanded Kinect be removed from XBO and after two years hardly any relevant games were made for it anymore other than partyware crap.

It's a camera that tracks movement in space. It's interesting, some people have fun with it. Most people moved on. VR is going to change the world. There's no reference point we can have that is even remotely similar.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
The challenges are piling up.

Only for people who own hardware strong enough to run it
Only for people willing to spend more money on a peripheral
Only for people willing to wear something on their face
Only for people who are not prone to motion sickness or those willing to put in the time to get over it
Its a non-social experience, meaning its only fun for the primary user. Everyone else in the household is relegated to watching the user spin in circles and swing at nothingness.
Only certain game experiences work best.

All of this leads to a limited user base, which leads to devs reluctance to invest in exclusive AAA experiences, meaning most VR experiences will be limited to tacked on support to existing games, or small mini-game type stuff. Same as kinect
You're trying way too hard here. I could create a similar 'list' that makes ownership of a current gen console seem like something super limiting.

Bottom line is that whatever the limitations, VR can and does work for enough people in enough ways(genres, experiences) and that these experiences can be so incredibly powerful compared to what we're used to that the market will be there. People will want VR. It probably wont explode in popularity right away, but this isn't going away, like it or not. I know a lot of you just want 'the hype' to be over so you can go back to playing games the same way you have been for 15 years, but VR is upon us.
 
Uh huh. They're buying it so much that it's all but been abandoned by everyone.

Good luck with that argument.



No they couldn't have and perhaps you can put some effort into intellectually describing how we could have written that post verbatim for Kinect. There is a massive disconnect in what VR can achieve and what Kinect can achieve, and we see that in software. VR is already opening new doors never before tread on. Kinect mostly just gave us slightly better versions of what we had before in party game/mini-game genre. It was a fad in which everyone moved on just like they did with wiimote.

Nobody is going to be moving on from VR. It is your future. Welcome to it.



lol oh boy. Yeah so astonishing the market demanded Kinect be removed from XBO and after two years hardly any relevant games were made for it anymore other than partyware crap.

It's a camera that tracks movement in space. It's interesting, some people have fun with it. Most people moved on. VR is going to change the world. There's no reference point we can have that is even remotely similar.

I enjoy rational discourse, and I think you put a lot of effort into your posts which I appreciate. But please do not speak in absolutes about your opinions or what you believe will happen.
 
The challenges are piling up.

Only for people who own hardware strong enough to run it
Only for people willing to spend more money on a peripheral
Only for people willing to wear something on their face
Only for people who are not prone to motion sickness or those willing to put in the time to get over it
Its a non-social experience, meaning its only fun for the primary user. Everyone else in the household is relegated to watching the user spin in circles and swing at nothingness.
Only certain game experiences work best.

All of this leads to a limited user base, which leads to devs reluctance to invest in exclusive AAA experiences, meaning most VR experiences will be limited to tacked on support to existing games, or small mini-game type stuff. Same as kinect

You're talking about first-gen hardware which, yes, will have a limited user base. It'll sell to hardcore gamers who already have the expensive hardware capable of running it. Oculus is very much aware of that; mass consumer sales is a long term goal. And if the experience wasn't good enough, then sure it would be stuck as a niche product. But the experiences is mind blowing enough that everyone I've shown it to is instantly willing to jump over any hurdles to get one. Many of the people I've shown it to are 40-50 year old none-gamers, and I've had an almost unanimous reaction of "Where can I get it and how?". I've shown people cool tech such as Kinect before, and they've had fun with it, but I haven't had such a vastly positive "I must have it" response from my family and friends since I showed them the first iPhone. 6 years later and they all have iPhones.

As for devs being reluctant to invest, well yes and no. Yes, there might be a limited number of made-entirely-for-VR AAA experiences in the first year. But "tacked on" VR support isn't a negative if the game is well suited. See Elite and Live For Speed, both two of the very best Oculus experiences. Secondly, VR doesn't require fancy £50million graphics to blow minds. I've gotten plenty of amazing use out of my DK2 from bedroom developers with little to no budget. Indie support will be big; it already is with the DK2 -- dozens of new weekly experiences for a dev kit in the hands of less than 100,000 or so people. There's a tiny audience, and no money to currently be made, and yet thousands of people are clamoring to support it. The key difference between this and something like Kinect is that developers are excited for it. They're passionate and want to develop for it. Some of the biggest names in the industry have pledged support, many hired by Oculus themselves. I'm confident that there will be enough support to justify a purchase.
 
As usual the public perception will be phenomenal if experienced in short bursts for a laugh at trade shows or to entertain a group of people watching you riding a rollercoaster. I hope Sony doesnt invest too much in it because it will burn everywhere else. It could be their end if they invest too much in it. People wont strap on helmets in their living rooms. They just won´t. Even glasses are too much.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
I have no hope of experiencing such things on a console. PC? No problem.
Not anytime soon, I'm afraid. PC isn't as power-limited as the consoles are, but there's still two issues we cant get around at the moment:

1) Resolution - this is the killer right here. Even at 4k, fidelity with a 100 degree FoV HMD is going to be worse than that 1080p monitor in front of you right now.

2) Power - assuming we did have 8k displays, do we have the power to run something that looks as good as Uncharted 4 at 8k with stereoscopic 3D and barrel distortion? Not even freaking close.

VR is going to be a bit of a 'reset' switch in terms of graphics. Which is ok. Looking at something even fairly basic in VR is arguably far more impressive than looking at some great foliage at 1080p on a flat display. The improvements in graphics in VR will be really fun to experience.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Drive-by post:

I cannot wait until virtual/augmented reality becomes a thing of the past.

You will be long dead before that happens.

VR is an emerging technology and when it finally arrives it will stay forever. At some point in human evolution, we will have VR directly transmitted to our brains.

Either embrace the new technology or spend the rest of your life hating on it. It's your choice.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
You're talking about first-gen hardware which, yes, will have a limited user base. It'll sell to hardcore gamers who already have the expensive hardware capable of running it. Oculus is very much aware of that; mass consumer sales is a long term goal. And if the experience wasn't good enough, then sure it would be stuck as a niche product. But the experiences is mind blowing enough that everyone I've shown it to is instantly willing to jump over any hurdles to get one. Many of the people I've shown it to are 40-50 year old none-gamers, and I've had an almost unanimous reaction of "Where can I get it and how?". I've shown people cool tech such as Kinect before, and they've had fun with it, but I haven't had such a vastly positive "I must have it" response from my family and friends since I showed them the first iPhone. 6 years later and they all have iPhones.

As for devs being reluctant to invest, well yes and no. Yes, there might be a limited number of made-entirely-for-VR AAA experiences in the first year. But "tacked on" VR support isn't a negative if the game is well suited. See Elite and Live For Speed, both two of the very best Oculus experiences. Secondly, VR doesn't require fancy £50million graphics to blow minds. I've gotten plenty of amazing use out of my DK2 from bedroom developers with little to no budget. Indie support will be big; it already is with the DK2 -- dozens of new weekly experiences for a dev kit in the hands of less than 100,000 or so people. There's a tiny audience, and no money to currently be made, and yet thousands of people are clamoring to support it. The key difference between this and something like Kinect is that developers are excited for it. They're passionate and want to develop for it. Some of the biggest names in the industry have pledged support, many hired by Oculus themselves. I'm confident that there will be enough support to justify a purchase.

Yeah I don't have an Oculus yet, but the indy support seems amazing. To me it is worth buying for indy's and the occasional PC games that support it. You just know valve is going to come out with L4D3 support for it.
 

bj00rn_

Banned
Kinect was astonishing for the vast majority of people who tried it the first time.

The comparison is futile. There is no way to compare the two. It's completely beyond apples and oranges. I truly enjoyed Kinect the first week after I bought it, it felt fresh. But then I never used it again. When it comes to VR, here I am 1.5 year experience with owning the the DK1 and DK2, and I'm still impressed every single night, no exaggeration, when I play Elite Dangerous in VR . It has fundamentally changed the way I experience games, and there's just no going back, it's unthinkable. Honestly, it is simply impossible for me to enjoy a car game anymore without VR, it just has that kind of impact. And we're talking immature devkits here..
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Umm... No.

I have played Team Fortress 2 for an hour solid in the Rift DK1 and have been perfectly fine. I can play Euro Truck Simulator 2 for 3 minutes and want to lose my lunch.

graphical quality, refresh rate, and tracking accuracy are exactly the reasons why people want to barf on DK1 and less so on DK2. It's also depends on how the software is implemented per title, it's not purely a hardware solution.
Eyes/inner ear discord actually is the primary reason, the other technical reasons are also valid of course. Sure you can play it, but you've trained yourself enough to ignore the discord of that sensation, whereas most people will probably be unwilling to do that, and will prefer games where they mostly stand in place or move around just a bit - as far as they can be fully tracked. You've now went through a VR equivalent of what fighter jet pilots go through by rotating themselves on those spherical things so that they can get used to being tumbled about in an airplane that spins.

I can tell you that my first half an hour playing TF2 had made me not want to try Oculus ever again, but the next day was better. However, I still much prefer games/demos where you don't fully move around.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
As usual the public perception will be phenomenal if experienced in short bursts for a laugh at trade shows or to entertain a group of people watching you riding a rollercoaster. I hope Sony doesnt invest too much in it because it will burn everywhere else. It could be their end if they invest too much in it. People wont strap on helmets in their living rooms. They just won´t. Even glasses are too much.
Said it many times, but the failure of 3D to catch on was not because people didn't want to put on glasses.
 

Amir0x

Banned
I enjoy rational discourse, and I think you put a lot of effort into your posts which I appreciate. But please do not speak in absolutes about your opinions or what you believe will happen.

It's the reality. It's going to change the world forever and it'll be a simple fact-of-life in 10-15 years.

We'll have this discussion again then and we'll laugh about it, you'll see :)

It's quite easy to make this prediction. It's the most obvious thing in the world. Once you experience a demo with presence, no other viewpoint seems remotely rational (other than those who get sick by it, which is unfortunate).
 
Let's be real here... How many of you are actually gaming in one space with other people for a social experience?

my wife would probably prefer that my games be enclosed to my eyes.
 

Burt

Member
The amount of money this company is willing to throw down the hardware drain is astonishing. How many times do they need to release inferior hardware years late before they realize that that isn't how things work?

Looking at you, Zune.

No, I mean you, Kinect.

Actually, you, Kin.

No, wait.... you, Surface.

But hey, at least you're not as big of a waste as Courier... right?
 
It's the reality. It's going to change the world forever and it'll be a simple fact-of-life in 10-15 years.

We'll have this discussion again then and we'll laugh about it, you'll see :)

It's quite easy to make this prediction. It's the most obvious thing in the world. Once you experience a demo with presence, no other viewpoint seems remotely rational (other than those who get sick by it, which is unfortunate).

Well, perhaps I'll be more prone to believe your clairvoyance when I have a chance to try it for myself.
 

bj00rn_

Banned
I enjoy rational discourse, and I think you put a lot of effort into your posts which I appreciate. But please do not speak in absolutes about your opinions or what you believe will happen.

Heh, I would tend to agree with you, normally. But like Amir0x, there simply isn't an alternative, I just have to echo what he says; It's an absolute.

Whether console makers are going to succeed this round, I'm sorry to say I have my doubts, it's almost a generation too early really. So there might be some compromises..


Well, perhaps I'll be more prone to believe your clairvoyance when I have a chance to try it for myself.

Just be sure to not try it in a stressful environment uncalibrated.. Many people don't know this, but the devkits often (you might be lucky..) has to be tuned and calibrated to each person.
 

Bessy67

Member
The amount of money this company is willing to throw down the hardware drain is astonishing. How many times do they need to release inferior hardware years late before they realize that that isn't how things work?

Looking at you, Zune.

No, I mean you, Kinect.

Actually, you, Kin.

No, wait.... you, Surface.

But hey, at least you're not as big of a waste as Courier... right?
Zune and Surface are not inferior hardware by any means, and Kinect is one of the biggest success stories for a peripheral ever. And how are they years late to the VR game if nobody had released a consumer VR headset yet?
 
Those Brazilian cities names...

Project Natal (Kinect):
http://www.natalpraias.com.br/images/img.jpg[img]

Project Fortaleza:
[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-woNBmqjMMT8/TssToMYSh4I/AAAAAAAAAdc/fCn83k7LZyU/s1600/praia-morro-branco-13.jpg[img]

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gdv4cDRxvYE/TssL5mXK8mI/AAAAAAAAAcc/Ai8aeCOVitU/s1600/morro+branco.jpg[img]

[img]https://diskideias.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/praia-mucuripe-fortaleza.jpg[img]

Fortaleza also means Fortress in Portuguese =P[/QUOTE]The streaming service proyect was also called Rio.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom