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[RUMOR] Paul Thurrott: Xbox 720 is expensive: $500 or $300 for sub model, 5/21 Unveil

Game Guru

Member
Because neoGAF is not a massive circle jerk, that's why you didn't realize it.

The problem for your nonsense is that we didn't reach some 'conclusions', there have been a neverending stream of rumours from very reliable sources that have echoed a litany of similar features all of which are extremely negative on average for the consumer. As neoGAF is a community filled with consumers, it's no surprise why the majority would react harshly.

As for anyone 'heralding the end of Microsoft', I'm a consumer. 360 was my favorite console until Microsoft released that Kinect abomination. Then I just disliked all the consoles. But there's no doubt PS4 is far more exciting as a consumer than the new Xbox sounds to be, and this is not 'jumping to conclusions' it's simply evaluating what we know about PS4 versus what we do know about Durango and then combing through the most reliable rumours we have.

PS4 has been designed so far in every way to be extremely friendly for developers, indies, consumers. There has genuinely not been a single shred of negative news about the system except maybe that their initial reveal could have used more exciting videogames, which most of us know we'll see at E3.

These are very good comments. Yes, Sony was arrogant, prideful, and really needed to learn a lesson concerning the PS3. Now, we have a humbled Sony who has learned their lesson and wishes to be friendly to both developers and consumers.

Assuming the rumors are true, then the PS4 will be on-par or better than Durango in every way, including both price (I cannot see Sony making another console at $599 and they could easily offer a subscription model as well) and digital BC (No digital BC for either means both are starting from zero though hopefully Sony will get their PSOne Classics working on it).

There are really three worries for gamers at the moment as far as Sony and Microsoft's systems are concerned... price, digital BC, and always online DRM, and so far Sony looks to be on-par or better in all three. Even the comment that Microsoft has to compete with Roku and Apple TV doesn't hold water as both are $99 and don't require an extra subscription. OUYA is more likely to be a competitor to both than Durango will be!
 

10101

Gold Member
I really think $350 is a pipe dream. Though I agree with the $400/$500
If the rumours floating around about the UK price being £300 that would fit nicely at $450. Can't speak for you guys over there but I think £300 is very reasonable. Mind you the US used to get a 1 to 1 conversion with the UK, although AFAIK that didn't happen this gen.
 
As for the always online / always on stuff. It has been rumored a crazy number of times from dev doc sources, Kotaku, Edge, etc etc. There's no doubt that Durango will support always online and always on modes with Connected Standby. Durango is built from the core of Windows 8, which provides instant on and Connected Standby support. It's essentially an x86 machine that's optimized for gaming.

Whether or not Microsoft requires this connection for features, like the rumored activation for blocking used games, is another question. Nobody seems to know this, but if we look at last week then it starts to shown signs that something related to "always online" is happening. Microsoft issued a rare comment on an employee talking about it on Twitter. They want to manage the message carefully for the next Xbox, and employees got a gentle internal reminder after those comments that details of the next console must remain confidential. If those details weren't accurate, Microsoft wouldn't have gone to the effort of releasing a statement and reminding employees internally. It's just a question of how the always online feature works.

Have you heard anything to suggest whether sweet billy really has been *puts shades on* disconnected?
 

Jigolo

Member
As for the always online / always on stuff. It has been rumored a crazy number of times from dev doc sources, Kotaku, Edge, etc etc. There's no doubt that Durango will support always online and always on modes with Connected Standby. Durango is built from the core of Windows 8, which provides instant on and Connected Standby support. It's essentially an x86 machine that's optimized for gaming.

Whether or not Microsoft requires this connection for features, like the rumored activation for blocking used games, is another question. Nobody seems to know this, but if we look at last week then it starts to shown signs that something related to "always online" is happening. Microsoft issued a rare comment on an employee talking about it on Twitter. They want to manage the message carefully for the next Xbox, and employees got a gentle internal reminder after those comments that details of the next console must remain confidential. If those details weren't accurate, Microsoft wouldn't have gone to the effort of releasing a statement and reminding employees internally. It's just a question of how the always online feature works.

Is that rumored tablet still going to be an actual product? Or was the leak fake? I'm honestly interested in this gaming tablet as much as I am in the Xbox 3.
 

Spongebob

Banned
As for the always online / always on stuff. It has been rumored a crazy number of times from dev doc sources, Kotaku, Edge, etc etc. There's no doubt that Durango will support always online and always on modes with Connected Standby. Durango is built from the core of Windows 8, which provides instant on and Connected Standby support. It's essentially an x86 machine that's optimized for gaming.

Whether or not Microsoft requires this connection for features, like the rumored activation for blocking used games, is another question. Nobody seems to know this, but if we look at last week then it starts to shown signs that something related to "always online" is happening. Microsoft issued a rare comment on an employee talking about it on Twitter. They want to manage the message carefully for the next Xbox, and employees got a gentle internal reminder after those comments that details of the next console must remain confidential. If those details weren't accurate, Microsoft wouldn't have gone to the effort of releasing a statement and reminding employees internally. It's just a question of how the always online feature works.
What's been rumored is a console that requires an internet connection to even play games and use applications, that's not the same thing as what your suggesting.

According to the Kotaku rumor you can only be offline in a game or application for 3 minutes before the game is suspended and a network troubleshooter is launched.
 
Microsoft cannot be stupid enough to launch the next xbox with always-online to the point that the system won't play games if you have no internet connection. They can't. No one can be that stupid. NO ONE

That is both a conclusion and an assumption.

Let's hope you're right.

Why are people defending mandatory "always on" like it offers anything more than a console that can connect at the user's discretion? What can you do with "always on" that you can't do by signing into the internet on your console and just leaving it on? I can't think of a single Xbox Live feature that needs me to be online at any time other than the time during which I choose to use the service.
 

sunnz

Member
Is that rumored tablet still going to be an actual product? Or was the leak fake? I'm honestly interested in this gaming tablet as much as I am in the Xbox 3.

Gaming tablet?

Gaming
Tablet?


Yea, that sounds fun...

Looking at that spec sheet, it will also probably be expensive too.
 

Darryl

Banned
If somebody gets a perma ban from Live do MS come take their xbox away? do they have to pay the difference back for breach of contract? If you have a subbed xbox and you stop paying, what happens? you now own a brick?

I ask simply because at one point I had lost my job and due to that lost internet for about 3 months, not to mention other "things and stuff". If someone were to end up in such a situation with a subbed xbox, what would happen to them?

1. you keep paying your payments and keep the bricked xbox
2. you pay a huge contract cancellation fee and you now have your bricked xbox.
3. you pay a huge contract cancellation fee and you now own the xbox have the ability to create a second live account to replace it
4. what a coincidence, gamestop is willing to pay the huge contract cancellation fee for you in exchange for taking the xbox off your hands

there's just so many ways they can spin this to rip off the consumer
 
Pricing too?

Yeah :/

Well, to clarify, I've heard the $500 number. This is the first time anyone has put a price to the subsidized model that I've heard.

Honestly I expected $199 for the subsidized model. $200 + 24months x 15 = $560. I guess that $60 isn't really enough profit though since a non subsidized would be $500 + 2 years x $60.

So yeah, I was dumb to expect $199. But who wants to buy a subsidized model at $299? That's a tough pill to swallow, if true. Of course, all of this hearsay and could change as they start manufacturing them. I would also assume that microsoft *has* to be competitive with Sony, so Sony's price point should factor in.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
What's been rumored is a console that requires an internet connection to even play games and use applications, that's not the same thing as what your suggesting.

According to the Kotaku rumor you can only be offline in a game or application for 3 minutes before the game is suspended and a network troubleshooter is launched.
I'm pretty sure that's what all this outrage by anyone for anyone.

It's just spin by the loyalists that people don't understand "always-on" is good for you.

Yes, having stuff being done in the background when you choose to is great, as it's exactly what PS4 has shown. That doesn't require a persistent internet connection however.
 
This is a crazy thought, but what if the plan is that Durango has an HDMI input to control this new $99 Xbox 360 and that is how you can have backwards compatibility on the new console. Basically the new console can take control of either your old Xbox 360 or say your cable box. If it takes control of your cable box the new Xbox can stream the content to any SmartGlass device in your home (iPad, Android, Windows 8). Microsoft did hire the creator of the Slingbox, Blake Krikorian, and give him a lead position on the Xbox team.
 
What's been rumored is a console that requires an internet connection to even play games and use applications, that's not the same thing as what your suggesting.

According to the Kotaku rumor you can only be offline in a game or application for 3 minutes before the game is suspended and a network troubleshooter is launched.
Yeah, I'm familiar with those parts of the rumors too, but I'm just saying the solid part is that it will support always online and always on — Connected Standby.

I suspect the dev units have this 3 minute restriction in place, but that doesn't mean retail units do. I don't know either way.
 
A bunch of very fair points. You're obviously correct, I expect Microsoft to continue having a relatively easy development environment and even equal or surpass Sony's friendliness so far. But I think the reason it's significant with Sony is because it was one of the advantages Microsoft used to have against them, that has been evaporated by all accounts. If they're equal on that footing but Sony continues to maintain its traditional advantages over Microsoft, then you have a system that begins to look more and more attractive.

Also, would like to be reminded of the some of the negative Orbis rumours, because other than the RAM (which ended up WAY better than anyone expected), most of the PS4 rumours that were positive ended up being true. I just don't think I've heard much of any positive Durango rumours period.

It's definitely a great thing for developers that they've made working with the PS4 easier. The shit I've heard about working on the PS3 from friends is ridiculous. I'm not sure if they ever fixed this in the later years, but I've been told that to even have breakpoints on the PS3 requires you to add in the PS3 equivalent of __debugbreak(), which requires you to recompile and redeploy and is a huge PITA (put a break at the wrong spot? lol recompile and try again!). It sounds like they fixed issues like that for the PS4 which is great. Though, again, we don't really know anything about what the Nextbox is like to work on. Maybe it's less of an issue now, and both systems are fantastic to develop on. I'm hoping this is true, because we, the gamers, are the winners in this scenario where developers can easily create games for all systems.

I also don't think you can really judge things as being positive/negative until you hear the entire story from MS. We do not know why the Nextbox would want to have an internet connection. Yes, I realize everyone thinks this is an outright negative, but I beg to differ. Going back to one of my examples, let's look at Spotify (I love it by the way, I'm just using it to make my point). If someone were to describe Spotify as an always-online music service, but you get the privilege of being able to play music offline for $10 a month, which you don't even own by the way so you lose once you are no longer a subscriber, how do you think people would react to Spotify? When you frame it in such a raw way, it sounds fucking terrible. However, when you frame Spotify as a music service, which can bring in tons of different music for free without you having to download it, and you can easily share all of your playlists with your friends, recommend artists on social networks, etc, and you also get to subscribe to get offline playback on your devices and better quality audio, it makes it sound a little different and pretty awesome, right? It's all about the presentation of the information. That's why I think anyone who is making decisions about whether the rumors are good/bad are very premature. We need to hear the story straight from MS.

All I'm going to say is that the Stingray information and pricing is very wrong.

You're Tom Warren? I hope to see an article on The Verge about this soon then! :) Is pricing here too high, or god forbid, too low?
 
man, i've been following videogames closely for a while now and i've never NEVER seen an instance where a console had so many negative rumors and leaks leading up to its reveal. The negative momentum just seems to build on itself. Even systems that crashed and burned started off with more optimistic.

I can buy the $500. I was guessing the PS4 was going to be a $400/$500 (with Eyetoy stuff and some free PS+ things)
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Yeah, I'm familiar with those parts of the rumors too, but I'm just saying the solid part is that it will support always online and always on — Connected Standby.

I suspect the dev units have this 3 minute restriction in place, but that doesn't mean retail units do. I don't know either way.

Kotaku specifically talks about the consumer version having that restriction. It's explicitly mentioned in the same sentence to avoid any ambiguity.
 

mavs

Member
But if MS's current subscription offering is any indicator, it would be 14.99 a month. So total lifetime cost of that console (assuming 14.99 for 2 years plus 299 up front) would be $658. Ouch.

What if they offer a Verizon hotspot with the subscription SKU? Double redundancy so you never* lose connection with your friends!

*not guaranteed

Verizon gets access to your living room, Xfinity gets more access to you inside your living room, Microsoft gets access to more of your monthly expenditures (sure, add Office 365 to my Microsoft account!), and EA gets the always online they want so badly. The nextbox could be a veritable orgy of platform initiatives!
 
Kotaku specifically talks about the consumer version having that restriction. It's explicitly mentioned in the same sentence to avoid any ambiguity.
Well given that retail units haven't gone into production yet, I'm not sure that anyone can be confident with exactly what is and isn't supported in the retail SKU.
 
For that price I really hope this thing is packing more power than the rumored specs. Kinect fucking ruined everything, didn't it. =(

I can't wait for them to realize that while its great tech, its not great tech for fans of 'core' games. And those are the fans that stick with the system, and buy DLC, etc.

I don't know because I don't know what it means. You know, when you look at some of the stories that were coming out this week about, you know, I saw a headline that said something like 'Next Xbox could be okay without an internet connection for as long as 3 minutes' or something like that. I don't even know what that means, so for me, Xbox 360 is almost entirely an online experience. Most of the games I play are multiplayer, where you're playing against other people online. Or you're using it as an entertainment device when you're connected to a service like Netflix or Xbox video, so that is an internet-connected device. In this phrase, it says 'must be internet-connected to use', you know, that suggests that you can't even boot into the UI and play—I don't know, I don't know, I don't have one.

Well how about you do some fucking research and find out what it means, instead of acting like its non issue. Blah. Its just so frustrating that people who report on these don't try to educate themselves on them, even if it isn't their cup of tea. He seems to be well connected and have sources, so I don't understand what he doesn't understand.. he plays games, so I don't see how he doesn't get the issue with always online.
 

Tookay

Member
Microsoft cannot be stupid enough to launch the next xbox with always-online to the point that the system won't play games if you have no internet connection. They can't. No one can be that stupid. NO ONE

You're talking about a company that practically sabotaged its own operating system in slapping a tablet interface on top of desktop just to further its future business goals.

If Microsoft thinks that locking things off with always online furthers its business plan in the long-run, you can sure as hell bet they'll take whatever short-term backlash occurs as a result.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Well given that retail units haven't gone into production yet, I'm not sure that anyone can be confident with exactly what is and isn't supported in the retail SKU.
Oh sure. I'm just saying that is the current rumor and it's not being misunderstood by people here or anywhere.

If things change from what is rumored: Great.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
As for the always online / always on stuff. It has been rumored a crazy number of times from dev doc sources, Kotaku, Edge, etc etc. There's no doubt that Durango will support always online and always on modes with Connected Standby. Durango is built from the core of Windows 8, which provides instant on and Connected Standby support. It's essentially an x86 machine that's optimized for gaming.

Whether or not Microsoft requires this connection for features, like the rumored activation for blocking used games, is another question. Nobody seems to know this, but if we look at last week then it starts to shown signs that something related to "always online" is happening. Microsoft issued a rare comment on an employee talking about it on Twitter. They want to manage the message carefully for the next Xbox, and employees got a gentle internal reminder after those comments that details of the next console must remain confidential. If those details weren't accurate, Microsoft wouldn't have gone to the effort of releasing a statement and reminding employees internally. It's just a question of how the always online feature works.

"Ok guys, you see what happened to Sweet Billy? Well, let me remind you quite kindly that if something similar happen from now until our next console is released, you will certainly be always on.
Yes, always on paper boxes in streets trying to sleep while it rains because you'll be FIRED AND RUINED FOREVER!!!DO NOT TRY IT, GOT IT?!? ...Have a good day everyone!"
 
It will be interesting to see MS try to force XBL Silver users to connect online or not be able to play their games while also not letting them play games online

I want to see them spin that!
 
Yeah, I'm familiar with those parts of the rumors too, but I'm just saying the solid part is that it will support always online and always on — Connected Standby.

I suspect the dev units have this 3 minute restriction in place, but that doesn't mean retail units do. I don't know either way.

Connected Standby is a good thing for consumers and a similar feature is a big selling point for PS4 (though Sony hasn't provided the full details of the feature).

Let's just hope that is the "always online " that we get.
 
It will be interesting to see MS try to force XBL Silver users to connect online or not be able to play their games while also not letting them play games online

I want to see them spin that!

I really think they'll change XBL, Silver will get more free stuff (including online multiplayer.)
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Yeah :/

Well, to clarify, I've heard the $500 number. This is the first time anyone has put a price to the subsidized model that I've heard.

Honestly I expected $199 for the subsidized model. $200 + 24months x 15 = $560. I guess that $60 isn't really enough profit though since a non subsidized would be $500 + 2 years x $60.

So yeah, I was dumb to expect $199. But who wants to buy a subsidized model at $299? That's a tough pill to swallow, if true. Of course, all of this hearsay and could change as they start manufacturing them. I would also assume that microsoft *has* to be competitive with Sony, so Sony's price point should factor in.

Mmh, considering Warren is saying the pricing infos are wrong, that's quite a contrast. creamhackered, I think with that "pricing infos completely wrong" you intended prices LOWER than what Thurrott suggested. I mean, it's the only logical possibility :lol You're talking about 100$ lower than both I think, no?
 

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
It will be interesting to see MS try to force XBL Silver users to connect online or not be able to play their games while also not letting them play games online

I want to see them spin that!

"To further increase the value for money offered by Xbox Live on our new platform, we have consolidated the XBL offerings into one single package, at an unparalleled price of <parameter:string> per month!

:p
 
kind of funny how everybody takes kotaku as a legitimate source now....


just a few months ago everybody would shit on kotaku whenever somebody brought them up as a source.
 
Mmh, considering Warren is saying the pricing infos are wrong, that's quite a contrast. creamhackered, I think with that "pricing infos completely wrong" you intended prices LOWER than what Thurrott suggested. I mean, it's the only logical possibility :lol You're talking about 100$ lower than both I think, no?

I just read it as him saying the Stingray pricing was wrong, not Durango.
 

aaaaaa

Member
$500 today was around $420 in 2005 with inflation factored in. XBox 360 was $400 at launch in Nov 2005. It's not a ridiculous price, but it's also not being reduced due to any of the anti-consumer tech that it has.
 

JCizzle

Member
kind of funny how everybody takes kotaku as a legitimate source now....


just a few months ago everybody would shit on kotaku whenever somebody brought them up as a source.

Good reporting will do that. People will ignore the quirky/troll articles when they're accompanied by well written investigative pieces. Kotaku has been nailing it recently. I'm sure polygons reputation will follow the same path if they string together some good articles.
 

Ding-Ding

Member
kind of funny how everybody takes kotaku as a legitimate source now....


just a few months ago everybody would shit on kotaku whenever somebody brought them up as a source.

Normally that would be the case but we have several other sites that leaked this info. We have also had former MS employees here referencing it as well as other proven insiders.

However, what really gave Kotaku's story some real traction was Sweet Billy shouting his mouth off shortly afterwards.

This much smoke...
 

itsgreen

Member
$500 today was around $420 in 2005 with inflation factored in. XBox 360 was $400 at launch in Nov 2005. It's not a ridiculous price, but it's also not being reduced due to any of the anti-consumer tech that it has.

I was expecting 450 for both PS4 and 720...

Also Paul mentions it more as a guesstimate than an actual fact..
 
Good reporting will do that. People will ignore the quirky/troll articles when they're accompanied by well written investigative pieces. Kotaku has been nailing it recently. I'm sure polygons reputation will follow the same path if they string together some good articles.

It's a combination of (mostly) improved content and opinion validation. Mostly the latter. If you want it to be true, you're much more likely to believe it.
 

wildfire

Banned
What if they looked at services like PS+, Gamefly, Netflix, Spotify, etc and are building their xbox completely around the same idea.

Is all of this always on stuff still going to be a problem if Microsoft will offer us free unlimited games (like a spotify or netflix) for a fixed monthly subscription payment, polling user data to determine payouts to publishers?

This would explain the whole Online Only/No-Second-Hand attitude as we'd basically be renting a service and not actually owning games.

People have been suggesting in other threads MS has to go the steam route with frequent high discount sales for this to be even remotely palatable.

Going as far as unlimited free games for monthly subscription would help turn around public opinion.

But how would this make Gamestop happy?
 
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