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[Cidd]

So about those vacuum cleaners?

Is this a good time to bring back the MS vacuum cleaner joke from the 90s?

 

[Gustav]

Whats the point of a subscription console if it isnt stupid cheap?

People bought a 360 for $400 and a subscription for $7 a month. Looks like $300 + $7 a month is cheaper.

 

[Somnid]

People are surprised at $500 price tags? If this was not in your expectation range you probably need to reality check yourself. Anything creeping lower than that is going to have a lot of strings attached.

 

[quest]

When 40% of America haven't got high speed internet, there are an awful lot of "average jo(s)" who will care. More than that, the rest of the world will care when they can't PLAY GAMES because of the poor network infrastructure. The armed forces will not will be able to play games, if this always online requirment is true.

Do you think no "average joes" complained about Sim City and Diablo 3?

Most importantly, about half of the xbox userbase does not have XBL Gold. So half the userbase are not always "in the socket".

This decision will affect vast numbers of people and many more than you imagine. Do not come in here and pretend that every xbox owner is plugged into the internet and only the hardcore play their xbox's offline. That is not the case.

Even some of those who have it only have slow 1.5-3.0mbps DSL. So constant DRM checks and other back ground stuff will flood the limited bandwidth they have. Don't forget the people who live with data caps. I am sure they will love having constant DRM checks and other back ground tasks sucking up that bucket up.

 

[GoofsterStud]

People bought a 360 for $400 and a subscription for $7 a month. Looks like $300 + $7 a month is cheaper.

But the $99 Xbox contract requires a $14.99 live gold subscription for 2 years.

Why would this be cheaper?

 

[killer rin]

Pretty much. Nobody in Canada offers the caliber of Internet one would need to support an always online platform like this one.

I will need to socially network over Xbox LIVE to find an American wife I can marry so I can move and use their functional Internet.

Honestly? I have lived all over southern ontario and our internet has gone out a total of 3 times over the past 6 years. One of those times was because the kids laptop was so full with virus' that the ISP temporarily disconnect the internet for a day to get our attention and to clean it.

On top of that, I get 12-24MB/s, which is overkill to just maintain a connection

 

[MasLegio]

I'd be nice to now if all these new ones exclusively post in Microsoft threads and attempt to change the narrative.

we have some "old ones" as well

 

[Amir0x]

I don't get why people are assuming many of those things are exclusive to the PS4.

For example, have we heard anyone see that developing for the Nextbox is difficult? I find it hard to believe that the 360 being very easy to develop for, and they then went and made things more difficult for the nextbox. I would assume that MS would carry their tradition of having great tools and integration forward. They are the ones that make VS, Windows, etc after all. There's no reason why it can't be easy to develop for.

I think people are also forgetting a whole bunch of the negative things we heard about Orbis before the official reveal. Durango seems to be in that same place, since there's no official information, only rumors. Sony has had the chance to spin up the PR machine, control the information and can make it sound like it's Jesus' second coming.

As an example, we don't know exactly how used games could work, or whether all PS4 games are required to have an offline mode. There's been rumors that PS4 games use activation codes, which means that we need a lot more details on how used games will work. I still think it's likely that you'll have to pay extra to get a new activation code for a used game. And for offline mode, I don't think it's actually a requirement. Sony says its up to the publishers, so PS4 gamers aren't immune to always-online. The only 100% confirmed game to require an internet connection is Destiny. The other strongly rumored games are Watch Dogs, AC4 and BF4, and there will likely be more added to this list.

I'm not trying to bash PS4, I'm going to buy one day one. I just think people need to take a step back and realize that we are not seeing the whole picture at this point. We have one platform that is in full PR mode controlling what info they release, and one that hasn't even been announced and is at the mercy of rumors.

I still think that an always-on requirement won't be as bad as people think it will be, but I'm one of those people who has a stable and fast internet connection. I'm a heavy MP gamer (NS2 and Dota 2 baby!), and I use services like Spotify and Netflix every day. Most of what I do on a PC requires an internet connection regardless and I'm fine with that.

A bunch of very fair points. You're obviously correct, I expect Microsoft to continue having a relatively easy development environment and even equal or surpass Sony's friendliness so far. But I think the reason it's significant with Sony is because it was one of the advantages Microsoft used to have against them, that has been evaporated by all accounts. If they're equal on that footing but Sony continues to maintain its traditional advantages over Microsoft, then you have a system that begins to look more and more attractive.

Also, would like to be reminded of the some of the negative Orbis rumours, because other than the RAM (which ended up WAY better than anyone expected), most of the PS4 rumours that were positive ended up being true. I just don't think I've heard much of any positive Durango rumours period.

 

[creamhackered]

All I'm going to say is that the Stingray information and pricing is very wrong.

 

[Jadedx]

Right now these rumors (which sound fairly reliable) are the only thing we can base our discussion on so I don't know what some people are expecting. It's not like if it all turns out to be false and the Next Xbox is actually a dream machine then people would still be holding a grudge.

Are you kidding? This is neogaf, when these rumors turn out to be false people here will still find something to complain about.

 

[John Harker]

Oh it's May alright

 

[RangerBAD]

GAF YOU NEED TO SORT YOUR SHIT OUT

All your opinions are of a hardcore gamer group. Do you really think average jo gives a shit about always online when their Xbox is always connected to the socket anyway.

Do you not think the average jo will like being able to do things via a phone app.

Do you think the average jo will care about BC when all they want to do is play next gen games

Seriously you need to get a grip.

 

[Y2Kev]

Oh it's May alright

go on

 

[dragonelite]

If it was always online like on mobile OS so a game or a app can always update and when connection is spotty i can play the offline portion of a game then sure im okay with that.

But having to be connected to play the offline portion is stupid.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Honestly I can't believe I'm saying this, but I feel I have to buy the PS4 day one now. I feel if the PS4 launch sales are significantly higher then the market will speak to Microsoft and Sony in the language they understand.


this shit will never ever be acceptable.

 

[KalBalboa]

People bought a 360 for $400 and a subscription for $7 a month. Looks like $300 + $7 a month is cheaper.

You've got a really good point there.

 

[quest]

Are you kidding? This is neogaf, when these rumors turn out to be false people here will still find something to complain about.

Unless this is a conspiracy against MS there are to many of these rumors for them not to have some truth to them. Lets not forget almost all the PS4 rumors came true.

 

[xxracerxx]

All I'm going to say is that the Stingray information and pricing is very wrong.

8 posts and this is what you are going to say?

 

[Alcoholikaust]

imagine having a gaming console that wont work unless your internet is working.... wow, what to do when the internet is dead?

I can name a few countries where the internet is not as stable and have regular down time.

I really hope this blows up in MS face with hacks and pirates cause they deserve it if they decide on going down this road.

The users without an internet connection dont matter to them. The amount of money generated by the "minority" of always online xbox gamers through online activity in mp games, season passes and micro-transactions/xbla have shown they really dont matter

It will blow up in M$ofts face. Or at least I hope so.

 

[Dueck]

They will if they have internet issues, or if MS has server problems.

This. Not to mention those are the same people that take bad press and peer pressure very seriously.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I just don't think I've heard much of any positive Durango rumours period.

Much? There were some positive rumors? Please do tell.

My mind is blank on that topic

 

[BlackJace]

Oh it's May alright

 

[Anth0ny]

I have never seen a system pre-reveal have ALMOST literally not a single good bit of news about it.

The best thing I've seen anyone say is that Microsoft is going to be really aggressive with their early push toward hardcore gamers, and that's fine... too bad all that push will be on a system that by all rumoured accounts is like the virtual equivalent of the dude who nailed Jesus hands to the cross lol

And PS4 has been portrayed like the second coming of Christ himself.

Really entertaining run up to the launch of these next gen consoles.

What the fuck would Wii U be? lol

 

[Glorified G]

Oh it's May alright

 

[Anton668]

All I'm going to say is that the Stingray information and pricing is very wrong.

do tell....

 

[GoofsterStud]

You've got a really good point there.

Except the current contract deal requires a higher monthly cost that normal.

$14.99 a month for 2 years and not $7.

 

[EscoBlades]

Oh it's May alright

 

[JustProgress]

8 posts and this is what you are going to say?

He knows, duh

 

[SolarPowered]

Sounds like the same mistake Sony made with the PS3 when they focused more on stupid media related BS and it resulted in an expensive multimedia device that just happened to play games.

Definitely staying away from this one if true.

 

[CaptainFalafel]

GAF YOU NEED TO SORT YOUR SHIT OUT

All your opinions are of a hardcore gamer group. Do you really think average jo gives a shit about always online when their Xbox is always connected to the socket anyway.

Do you not think the average jo will like being able to do things via a phone app.

Do you think the average jo will care about BC when all they want to do is play next gen games

Seriously you need to get a grip.

There are a couple of problems with "average jo":
- "Average jo" won't be buying it on launch day.
- "Average jo" has probably heard of the Sim City fiasco.
- "Average jo" isn't a big software buyer.

 

[Uno Venova]

I'd be nice to now if all these new ones exclusively post in Microsoft threads and attempt to change the narrative.

Yeah I mentioned it because there are a good amount who have had an account for a year but started posting exclusively in rumor threads to do exactly what you say, change the narrative. It's an increasingly obvious trend.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

GAF YOU NEED TO SORT YOUR SHIT OUT

All your opinions are of a hardcore gamer group. Do you really think average jo gives a shit about always online when their Xbox is always connected to the socket anyway.

Do you not think the average jo will like being able to do things via a phone app.

Do you think the average jo will care about BC when all they want to do is play next gen games

Seriously you need to get a grip.

Ok Billy

 

[Gustav]

Except the current contract deal requires a higher monthly cost that normal.

$14.99 a month for 2 years and not $7.

That's for the $99 subbed console, right? I meant for launch consoles. I bought a 360 for 400€ and immediately started a 7€ subscription.

 

[creamhackered]

do tell....

I'd love to, but I am sure everything will be explained on May 21st.

 

[Mxrz]

Good lord, this is sounding like Microsoft is going all in with the third console curse.

I know that I'm not buying one if all these are true, and I sure as hell hope not many others are either. The thought of this stuff being a commercial success or catching would be a nightmare.

 

[Anton668]

I'd love to, but I am sure everything will be explained on May 21st.

this iz teh interwebz!!! we haz to talk about it nowz!!!!!!!

 

[Drake]

I know people on Gaf are pissed about it (myself included), but I wonder how much the always online is really going to hurt the xbox 720.

 

[DEADEVIL]

No, a lot of them want to play Call of Duty with their buds. You think the next COD coming this fall won't be on 360? Why buy a $500 console if they can keep playing the latest Call of Duty with their friends?

It's the same issue the PS4 is going to face. Call of Duty and GTA make up the top 5 games sold on the PS3.

If Blu-ray, Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto are the biggest drivers for PS3 sales then the PS4 will have tough competition with the PS3 alone, considering no backwards compatibility.

MS will have a Megaton with the announcement of BC and the ability to play COD, Halo and all XBLA games on the Next Xbox.

No one is still able to confirm or deny whether they have it or not.

 

[GoofsterStud]

That's for the $99 subbed console, right? I meant for launch consoles. I bought a 360 for 400€ and immediately started a 7€ subscription.

Exactly. The 300 subbed one will require the higher than normal monthly price.

You will probably spend more for barebone system, just like the current model. Why would they change that when they can get away with it?

The way it works you spend $50 more for the barebone system (instead of a premium system) over the contract.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I'd love to, but I am sure everything will be explained on May 21st.

This is Tom Warren, Senior Editor at The Verge FYI.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

I'm sure the cable companies would have no problem with people giving all their business to MS instead.

I don't know, Intel has something cooking, so does Apple

 

[BlackJace]

I'd love to, but I am sure everything will be explained on May 21st.

So this is really it. Markin the calendar.

 

[Jadedx]

Also, would like to be reminded of the some of the negative Orbis rumours, because other than the RAM (which ended up WAY better than anyone expected), most of the PS4 rumours that were positive ended up being true. I just don't think I've heard much of any positive Durango rumours period.

http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details

Same rumors; always online, no used games, no bc, some places say pay to play online.

 

[ultim8p00]

Microsoft cannot be stupid enough to launch the next xbox with always-online to the point that the system won't play games if you have no internet connection. They can't. No one can be that stupid. NO ONE

 

[Rebel Leader]

I know people on Gaf are pissed about it (myself included), but I wonder how much the always online is really going to hurt the xbox 720.

We won't know until e3 and or when the consoles are released and the NPD numbers are in

Microsoft cannot be stupid enough to launch the next xbox with always-online to the point that the system won't play games if you have no internet connection. They can't. No one can be that stupid. NO ONE

They were stupid enough to release Windows ME

(yes I know )

 

[DieH@rd]

Who is this John Harker that you all quote?

 

[rdrr gnr]

Oh it's May alright

Well, if it's the 21st, that works out for my finals schedule.

 

[xxracerxx]

This is Tom Warren, Senior Editor at The Verge FYI.

It would help to know that before the vague posts begin, such as in his profile. I had to look at his post history to find this.

Hey guys.

Tom Warren here (Senior Editor at The Verge). I posted this story at The Verge yesterday. I just wanted to clear up a few things and address some points I've seen posted elsewhere etc. The Xbox 720 leak was covered by The Verge at The Verge, not Polygon at The Verge. I know the temporary home can be confusing at times, but thought it was important to point that out.

As for how we check these types of stories. I have been reporting on Microsoft for around 12 years now. That's not to say I know everything about Microsoft and its processes, but I have a fairly good idea of what is and isn't an internal doc usually after the first few pages. This document in question is from August 2010, prior to iOS 4.2 (mentioned in the PPT notes) and when certain team members (mentioned in doc notes) were still at the company in engineering roles. The document references several employees by name and uses one of Microsoft's internal "CSG_Pres" PowerPoint templates (an early example of their Metro style PowerPoint templates that are used regularly internally now).

Couple this with the fact it aligns with other information I've seen about Nextbox over the past year, it aligned perfectly. The document also references Microsoft's SmartGlass technology (announced at E3). I went through a number of other ways to verify the information was as accurate as other stories we would report on - I'm not going to outline the exact processes because I like to keep those secret

We make every attempt to ensure this type of data is accurate. I ran a number of stories ahead of this year's E3, and they were all accurate:

Microsoft to bring full Internet Explorer browsing to Xbox 360 with Kinect controls
Exclusive: Kinect Play Fit to offer universal exercise tracking with 'Joule' heart rate monitor
Exclusive: $99 Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle launching next week with two-year subscription
Exclusive: Microsoft to preview 'Woodstock' Xbox music service at E3

Hopefully this clears up any questions over how we vet this type of information. I don't typically report on Xbox or gaming news (its not my core knowledge) but I do enjoy reading Neogaf threads from time to time. You guys have an amazing community here so keep it up

Thanks,
Tom

 

[DaBoss]

Oh it's May alright

It seems you haven't finished your sentence. I think you may want to expand further.

 

[spwolf]

"The problem Microsoft has has nothing to do with Sony or Nintendo anymore, it's Roku and AppleTV. The market for hardcore video games, the market of people will always buy the next Gears of War game, the next Halo game, the next Call of Duty game, it's fairly finite. It's a decent market, yada yada yada, it's not the market for tablets, it's not the market for smartphones.

kind of cant trust anything the guy says if his biggest argument against consoles is from 2007.