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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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Your link is not a valid comparison. The circumstances are completely different. Lookalikes isn't what this game is presenting. This game is presenting someone who is Big Boss in every way, shape and form despite there being no precedence for it-- he just is. Plastic surgery is now utterly perfect in this universe to accommodate it and he has the exact same voice for good measure and becomes a legendary soldier overnight.
MGS3 doesn't mention them because they're already mentioned in MGS1. At the time of MGS3 nobody knows about soldier genes because they've yet to be discovered, they're not found until after Zanzibar. Portable Ops substantiates it because they're a recent theory and Gene postulates that Big Boss must have them since he's beaten him and The Boss... which ends up being true in MGS1. He was the right man at the right time... who happened to have soldier genes that gave him a substantial boost. If the genes meant nothing, the Genome Soldier Project wouldn't have been a thing. But they have active physical benefits that give the bearer an edge in combat.
KOMANI
KOMANI
First I want it to be clear... I'm not the who did the heavy lifting, I just adjusted the titles. Second, of course I can, just let me know how you'd like me to send it.
To print them out, you either need a printer that can do the job, but I suggest going to a printing place (kinkos, staples, etc) and bring a sample game cover with you so they know the paper to print it on.
Yeah I understand your point of view now... and yes there's very little logic in this... but watching the streams it seems like Phantom didn't become BB immediately, he didn't recognize Ocelot and understand russian language for example, and don't forget that even if he is a medic, a soldier's training is the same for everybody (and he is an MSF medic, so it's like the medic of a spec ops unit, I think he may have been trained a bit more than a simple field medic).
But I stil see why you're so angry about it, yes it doesn't make much sense... but again it's a series in which a guy gets another guy arm as "replacement" but gets possessed by the "spirit" of the ex-owner of the arm himself
Yeah I understand your point of view now... and yes there's very little logic in this... but watching the streams it seems like Phantom didn't become BB immediately, he didn't recognize Ocelot and understand russian language for example, and don't forget that even if he is a medic, a soldier's training is the same for everybody (and he is an MSF medic, so it's like the medic of a spec ops unit, I think he may have been trained a bit more than a simple field medic).
But I stil see why you're so angry about it, yes it doesn't make much sense... but again it's a series in which a guy gets another guy arm as "replacement" but gets possessed my the "spirit" of the ex-owner of the arm himself
But are we to assume that a field medic, special forces or not, totally matches Big Boss, the most legendary soldier in history? It's... not good writing. Big Boss was groomed and trained from a very young age. There's no way the medic achieved even a quarter of that because MSF only became prominent a few months before the medic is punted into a coma.
Ocelot's arm was considerably less dumb when you took into account that the series had a supernatural leaning and his father was a spirit medium. But then Kojima decided to try and explain everything with pseudo-science and now nothing makes sense.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Ordered mine from SimplyGames about a week ago and got a dispatch email today. Tomorrow is going to be such a long wait! Wish we got our post before 5pm.
Edit: OMG! Accidentally hit this thread by mistake and end up catching the ending.... and too late to cancel my pre-order now. in future I'm gonna have to disable all web access for upcoming games with a story.
Edit: OMG! Accidentally hit this thread by mistake and end up catching the ending.... and too late to cancel my pre-order now. in future I'm gonna have to disable all web access for upcoming games with a story.
Damn, congrats.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Pm me so I don't lose your names in this thread. Also, if sending emails allowed, include those as well. I'm starting with the Xbox one version first
Yeah I've printed covers before, and I have some other prints I need to take to a store. I know you are just adjusting it as well. I just know that some people were clamouring for awhile for a high-res version of that original cover, and wanted to make sure it was known that is something I would like.
nature boy
Member
Think I'm just going to ignore the story as much as possible, because no way I'm avoiding the amazing gameplay.
Kojima himself says in one of the Metal Gear Saga DVDs that pretty much is the point of the stories, especially the first game
What makes you assume that?
Red Blaster
Member
this thread has gotten a lot less fun with news bot devolving into a overzealous pedantry about stuff like plastic surgery
It's not as though this subtext isn't crystal clear in these games. MGS2 is entirely about a really talented solider who has no "special genes" MGS1 basically ends on a huge monologue about taking control over one's life and not succumbing to "fate", as well as the "Weaker" clone being the one who wins the day.
It's not being a clone that makes snake what he is, it's having the will to succeed.
I honestly don't know how anyone could've played MGS up to this point and missed the repeated memo of how we are not bound by destiny and genes, history, etc. don't determine who we are or what we can be.
Like, if you personally disagree with that statement, that's fine, but you may be projecting your views onto a game franchise that never shared them.
Like, if you personally disagree with that statement, that's fine, but you may be projecting your views onto a game franchise that never shared them.
SmartWaffles
Member
I don't understand now, if those spoilers are true then what about Big Boss' later fate up to the ending of MGS4? Who is that Big Boss?
SkylineRKR
Member
yeah.
I mean if we saw on screen that he did it right there (changing a soldier into BB), it would defeat the whole purpose of the twist.
Now there is only a subtle clue, some weird editor and the doctor showing BB. We knew he was blown up, so we are supposed to think he just fixed him up.
MGS4 Big Boss is the real Big Boss. "Ahab"/Venom Snake/faux-BB died in Metal Gear 1.
And Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake is the real Big Boss, so this whole line of conversation involving Kojima absolving BB of wrongdoing and making him a good guy is baloney. It's actually contextualizing BB's faults in a way that puts him on the same level as Zero.
That's the real Big Boss. Fake Big Boss dies in MG1 apparently. Outer Heaven is all his idea and not the real Big Boss'. Big Boss still kinda makes his own Outer Heaven with Zanzibar Land.
Tales From My Ass: Kojima Edition
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
That plus Venom already has tons of experience working for MSF. He's not just some Meryl-tier rookie.
And unlike the solo on-site-procurement sneaking missions of the past, he has an entire base providing support. Air strikes, supply drops, companions, tons of money. He is only emulating what he already knows.
Big Boss talks about Outer Heaven to MSF soldiers at the very, very end of Peace Walker. Venom gets the meme from Big Boss.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
thabtouk's so called source seems dicey and fake, at least the timeline he provided.
I say this because, the timeline event screen he shared is fake and contradicts a few things we learned from the leaks.
According to thabtouk's source, Venom Snake builds Outer Heaven.
However read what the timeline has to say about that:
1995: While commanding special forces Foxhound unit from a position within the US Military, Big Boss establishes the fortified military nation, Outer Heaven in South Africa. The Outer Heaven Uprising occurs, but it's quashed by Solid Snake, who kills Big Boss's Phantom.
This is completely contradictory because according to the leaks:
1. Venom Snake learns about Big Boss's true motives. So why would he help him build Outer Heaven when he played him like a damn fiddle?
2. Read the text again. It says Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven. This means he Big Boss is still the founder of Outer Heaven. This again contradicts the leaked info which states that Venom Snake forms Outer Heaven which is again a contradiction to point 1 above.
3. Even if this is true, the 1995 text in NO WAY signifies Venom Snake founded Outer Heaven.
Not saying thabtouk himself is fake but his source provided him with a fake timeline.
A body double may exist, but providing an image with Ocelot and Big Boss standing together is not proof enough that such a major retcon will happen.
I almost believed the ruse...turns out it's someone messing with our heads.
I say this because, the timeline event screen he shared is fake and contradicts a few things we learned from the leaks.
According to thabtouk's source, Venom Snake builds Outer Heaven.
However read what the timeline has to say about that:
1995: While commanding special forces Foxhound unit from a position within the US Military, Big Boss establishes the fortified military nation, Outer Heaven in South Africa. The Outer Heaven Uprising occurs, but it's quashed by Solid Snake, who kills Big Boss's Phantom.
This is completely contradictory because according to the leaks:
1. Venom Snake learns about Big Boss's true motives. So why would he help him build Outer Heaven when he played him like a damn fiddle?
2. Read the text again. It says Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven. This means he Big Boss is still the founder of Outer Heaven. This again contradicts the leaked info which states that Venom Snake forms Outer Heaven which is again a contradiction to point 1 above.
3. Even if this is true, the 1995 text in NO WAY signifies Venom Snake founded Outer Heaven.
Not saying thabtouk himself is fake but his source provided him with a fake timeline.
A body double may exist, but providing an image with Ocelot and Big Boss standing together is not proof enough that such a major retcon will happen.
I almost believed the ruse...turns out it's someone messing with our heads.
So you're asserting that Venom being the PC in MGSV is real, but that it isn't actually Venom who establishes Outer Heaven? Then what happens to Venom?
And we still don't know the content of the third ending, right?
razzmahtazz
Member
Like most of the content in this thread, you are making assumptions based on incomplete information. We dont have complete information until the game is basically combed thoroughly.
You can't say the concept is dumb if you don't examine it fully.
The thread can come up with multiple reasons within the in-universe lore of how that Medic can match or "how it does not even matter that he is a match" to Big Boss' abilities but I not even sure that matters to you.
Do you want a cookie or a gold star
thabtouk's so called source seems dicey and fake, at least the timeline he provided.
I say this because, the timeline event screen he shared is fake and contradicts a few things we learned from the leaks.
According to thabtouk's source, Venom Snake builds Outer Heaven.
However read what the timeline has to say about that:
1995: While commanding special forces Foxhound unit from a position within the US Military, Big Boss establishes the fortified military nation, Outer Heaven in South Africa. The Outer Heaven Uprising occurs, but it's quashed by Solid Snake, who kills Big Boss's Phantom.
This is completely contradictory because according to the leaks:
1. Venom Snake learns about Big Boss's true motives. So why would he help him build Outer Heaven when he played him like a damn fiddle?
2. Read the text again. It says Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven. This means he Big Boss is still the founder of Outer Heaven. This again contradicts the leaked info which states that Venom Snake forms Outer Heaven which is again a contradiction to point 1 above.
3. Even if this is true, the 1995 text in NO WAY signifies Venom Snake founded Outer Heaven.
Not saying thabtouk himself is fake but his source provided him with a fake timeline.
A body double may exist, but providing an image with Ocelot and Big Boss standing together is not proof enough that such major retcon will happen.
I almost believed the ruse...turns out it's someone messing with our heads.
Venom Snake is still assuming the role of Big Boss all the way through
So when the 2 bump heads,(After Outer Haven is established) there are essentially 2 "Big Bosses"
Big Boss sends Snake to kill him because they fall out. Its possible Phantom use Big Boss to help build Outer Haven, then turn on him once it was up
You can't claim it's fake just because it feels contradictory or nonsensical in parts. By that logic, most of the previous games in the series would be "fake" as well. ;þ
snake_eater_raiden
Member
I am saying that the timeline in no way suggests that Venom Snake founded Outer Heaven. Does it say Venom Snake founder Outer Heaven? Nope. It clearly states Big Boss establishes it.
I don't know what will happen to Venom Snake. I don't even know whether there is a body double. I know the popular leak right now is that Ishmael is Big Boss and the new guy is Venom Snake. Sure, I am okay with that but the leaks in NO POSSIBLE WAY suggested that VS founded Outer Heaven.
At this point, and I say this with some level of responsibility since I am really into this, there are no confirmed number of endings. People are reporting different number of them.
I get that week off work, i'm going to be doing some marathons all week of it. But, there is no way I would risk my stream of an early game.
It seems like a lot of these streamers are trying to use the ps4 streaming functions, and that is an easy way to get your stream banned quickly
Thank you for expanding on what I was trying to tell everyone! I believe the timeline is completely made up. Even the guide states that "Big Boss consumed with guilt about destroying MB turns insane and becomes obsessed with building Outer Heaven, something which he does in 1995"thabtouk's so called source seems dicey and fake, at least the timeline he provided.
I say this because, the timeline event screen he shared is fake and contradicts a few things we learned from the leaks.
According to thabtouk's source, Venom Snake builds Outer Heaven.
However read what the timeline has to say about that:
1995: While commanding special forces Foxhound unit from a position within the US Military, Big Boss establishes the fortified military nation, Outer Heaven in South Africa. The Outer Heaven Uprising occurs, but it's quashed by Solid Snake, who kills Big Boss's Phantom.
This is completely contradictory because according to the leaks:
1. Venom Snake learns about Big Boss's true motives. So why would he help him build Outer Heaven when he played him like a damn fiddle?
2. Read the text again. It says Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven. This means he Big Boss is still the founder of Outer Heaven. This again contradicts the leaked info which states that Venom Snake forms Outer Heaven which is again a contradiction to point 1 above.
3. Even if this is true, the 1995 text in NO WAY signifies Venom Snake founded Outer Heaven.
Not saying thabtouk himself is fake but his source provided him with a fake timeline.
A body double may exist, but providing an image with Ocelot and Big Boss standing together is not proof enough that such a major retcon will happen.
I almost believed the ruse...turns out it's someone messing with our heads.
thabtouk's so called source seems dicey and fake, at least the timeline he provided.
I say this because, the timeline event screen he shared is fake and contradicts a few things we learned from the leaks.
According to thabtouk's source, Venom Snake builds Outer Heaven.
However read what the timeline has to say about that:
1995: While commanding special forces Foxhound unit from a position within the US Military, Big Boss establishes the fortified military nation, Outer Heaven in South Africa. The Outer Heaven Uprising occurs, but it's quashed by Solid Snake, who kills Big Boss's Phantom.
This is completely contradictory because according to the leaks:
1. Venom Snake learns about Big Boss's true motives. So why would he help him build Outer Heaven when he played him like a damn fiddle?
2. Read the text again. It says Big Boss establishes Outer Heaven. This means he Big Boss is still the founder of Outer Heaven. This again contradicts the leaked info which states that Venom Snake forms Outer Heaven which is again a contradiction to point 1 above.
3. Even if this is true, the 1995 text in NO WAY signifies Venom Snake founded Outer Heaven.
Not saying thabtouk himself is fake but his source provided him with a fake timeline.
A body double may exist, but providing an image with Ocelot and Big Boss standing together is not proof enough that such a major retcon will happen.
I almost believed the ruse...turns out it's someone messing with our heads.
The way I read that is that the real BB established the idea of Outer Heaven, as seen more or less in Peace Walker, but it was the fake BB who actually took the idea to its fruition, at least the first time. Basically, fake BB went too deep into his cover and became BB to the point of even trying to do what the real one was doing all along.
What are you talking about, this new timeline would have been created in the here and now, along side this new game. The past games haven't made sense due to retcons in later games. Think before you post nonsensical shite.
Hell, the timeline doesn't make sense due to it including the old OH insignia. Like I said Kojima created the new one for a reason.
Well, that timeline reads to me like Outer Heaven is still the real BB's creation, but that Venom is the one actually there doing the building. Which suggests that Venom goes along with BB even after he finds out the truth.
Rogue Agent
Banned
This whole "which of the two Big Bosses was the one to establish Outer Heaven?" thing is going to be the new "Was Ocelot always "faking" being Liquid before MGS4 or was he genuinely possessed in MGS2 before he cut off Liquid's arm and replaced it with the cyborg one?" type of discussion, isn't it? It is not clear enough.
Might wanna take a bit of your own advice, but this post doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also, why are you so defensive about this stuff? I mean, chill out man.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
And your answer makes zero sense. I respectfully disagree with that.
Okay. Lets assume that this picture is legit for a moment. Then can you please answer one simple question:
Why does the timeline explicitly state that Big Boss founded Outerheaven in 1995?
According to leaks, VS founds OH.
Please explain and tell me why this is not contradictory.
Yes, retcons that were sometimes a bit hard to follow/swallow. Like Big Boss now having a double, this time around. That was my point, pretty much.
... Really, now?
SmartWaffles
Member
Still, if the OH "Big Boss" is Venom who descended into a demon, then why the real Big Boss in Zanzibar Land as evil as Venom?
So, in all of these spoilers, has anything been said about Chico? Did he just die in the explosion or something?
He's not, see the end of MGS4.
He's not, see the end of MGS4.
Dude, seriously, who are you talking to with the chill out comment? How is my post angry?
Read his post before trying to confront me. He says the previous games feel contradictory and nonsensical in parts and that's why the timeline could be real.
How doesn't my post make sense? The previous games only feel contradictory becuase the newer games have retconned parts of them, so how does this make the timeline real? I said the timeline would have been created along side MGSV so how would plot points from this game feel contradictory to this games timeline?
But how could retcons from this game be hard to follow if they are being made in this game, with a timeline included? The source said to Thabto that Venom created Outer Heaven while providing him a timeline that completely contradicts what he said? That's the point I was trying to make, don't know why everyone went on some tangent about a different subject?
And yes, seriously, your post before didn't sound anything like you've just posted now, so basically it was nonsensical to me.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
This is an assumption at your end. Please present hard factual spoilers to prove your point.
Honestly, people are making so much out of a fake timeline scene and an image which can be interpreted in a thousand different ways.
Sigh.
Me too.
Almost every post you've made since the timeline reveal has been super defensive and aggressive. At least, that's how they read, especially with threatening to contact mods on people and calling posts by others shit more or less.
This is an assumption at your end. Please present hard factual spoilers to prove your point.
Did you miss the first five words of his post, man?
Can you quote that, I havent seen anything that says so
Nevermind I see it,
Says "First Ending" So it may not be the "True" ending
snake_eater_raiden
Member
I did not and there is no hard source that states that other than thatbouk's so called source. Anyways, not too long too go. I honestly can't believe Kojima will give such a BS story in TPP. There is no body double in my opinion. ThatboUK's source is trolling him and in return he is trolling all of you with regards to the ending.
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