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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 10: Against the Odds, We Choose to Hype!

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Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Making an argument like "the square is like that to fit the website design" is a bad argument because the website changes layout all the time. What's bad on one screen is good on another. I wouldn't be surprised if there was something up with Lucina.

I made a very clear argument here for why the shapes are what they are. Do you have an actual counter for those points? Or is your counter "it changes all the time," which does not address those points?

There is no screen size lower than 960px, which they set as their minimum, where the squares do not rearrange perfectly while keeping these three newly announced characters as the newest three. This is only possible because Lucina is a small square.
 
They're still trying to figure out who S/he's a clone/alt of. Your time will come ;)
Isn't that an endgame spoiler for Awakening?

I made a very clear argument on the previous page for why the shapes are what they are. Do you have an actual counter for those points? Or is your counter "it changes all the time," which does not address those points?
How does it not counter those points? Your argument was "it doesn't fit any other way", when it does depending on your monitor.
 
You mean Pegasus.


As long as it doesn't get you banned go ahead :D

Oh god of God. I know it won't get me banned but...

Flameshield on


Xenoblade Chronicles isn't that great of a game, the characters are bland and have annoying voice acting and I wouldn't care if Shulk wasn't in Smash 4.
 

Gabeking

Member
I mean, sure, it's true that Sakurai is pretty unpredictable, but he already stated in the past that a playable Ridley would be pretty much impossible. He's just TOO BIG.
The way I see it, Ridley was teased this way to _troll_ people who seriously consider him as a potential newcomer. In one of his Miiverse posts, he even said that "A villain of Samus' past may appear at any moment!" when talking about the Pyrosphere stage. He's teasing Ridley's appearance as a boss character in these super obvious ways without actually showing him to give you guys that tiny sliver of hope of him being playable.

Look, I'm not saying that Ridley wouldn't DESERVE to be playable; he's Samus' iconic archnemesis, after all. But he wouldn't work. Brawl already established that he's ten times larger than any Smash character (since he was a boss in that game, too).



I.... I can't argue with that though lol.

You have a link to where he said that?
 
You show my a few of Falco's moves and I would say the same thing about Fox. Doesn't mean anything, clones are an expected and accepted thing in fighting games.
I disagree, but when was the last time we had a clone like Falco? It's really unusually, suggesting something more is at play.
 
man i really hope this topic gets debunked soon :T also i have to say now im super confused about the whole alt thing and that character discussions are as seriously as melee vs brawl lol

I disagree, but when was the last time we had a clone like Falco? It's really unusually, suggesting something more is at play.
to be fair sakurai could have just as well changed his mind as well on that
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
How does it not counter those points? Your argument was "it doesn't fit any other way", when it does depending on your monitor.

If Lucina was a 3-wide banner, it would not fit when you size your window to the five-icon width. Two 3-wide banners cannot fit next to each other. They would have had to put Robin, Falcon, and a previous character on the first row, then Lucina on the second, which breaks the goal of having the three icons sequential.

Since she's a small icon, the three new icons all fit sequentially at all screen sizes.
 
If Lucina was a 3-wide banner, it would not fit when you size your window to the five-icon width. Two 3-wide banners cannot fit next to each other. They would have had to put Robin, Falcon, and a previous character on the first row, then Lucina on the second, which breaks the goal of having the three icons sequential.
Exactly, but not all screens have the five icon width. That's why it's a bad argument.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
I never do avatar bets and even I'd go for Lucina is not an alt it is that obvious and I'm the guy who says to take everything with a grain of salt until the facts are presented.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Exactly, but not all screens have the five icon width. That's why it's a bad argument.

What you are saying literally means nothing. They have designed the site to provide the optimal experience at all screen sizes. It is called responsive design. No matter the size of your screen, the three newly announced characters will be the top three icons. This would be impossible if Lucina was wide.

This is why she IS wide on the mobile layout, where they will never have a device that needs to serve the five-wide layout. The wideness is a website decision, nothing more.
 
I disagree, but when was the last time we had a clone like Falco? It's really unusually, suggesting something more is at play.

Toon Link I would say is close as hell to Link's moves and that was in Brawl.

And again, are we over looking the fact that ever character now has 3 sets of B moves to choose from? And again, we haven't seen all her moves or how they operate differently to any overlap with Marth.
 
What you are saying literally means nothing. They have designed the site to provide the optimal experience at all screen sizes. It is called responsive design. No matter the size of your screen, the three newly announced characters will be the top three icons. This would be impossible if Lucina was wide.

This is why she IS wide on the mobile layout, where they will never have a device that needs to serve the five-wide layout. The wideness is a website decision, nothing more.
But all screen sizes don't have the five wide layout. This really isn't too hard to understand.

Toon Link I would say is close as hell to Link's moves and that was in Brawl.

And again, are we over looking the fact that ever character now has 3 sets of B moves to choose from? And again, we haven't seen all her moves or how they operate differently to any overlap with Marth.
Toon Link has different specials, aerials, and a completely different body type. The two don't even come close compared to Marth and Lucina. You can pretend otherwise if you want, but she could easily end up being an alt costume.
 

Revven

Member
With the custom movesets that means there really can't be anymore clones, right? Also I've never played the Fire Emblem series but Robin looks cool as hell to play as, can't wait to try him out!

No, the custom move sets isn't the same as what anyone actually wanted (Palutena/Mii Fighters aside).

All characters (besides Palutena/Mii Fighters) have 3 different options for a special move (making for a total of 12 special moves per character). However, these 3 options only differ in properties of the moves -- the animations themselves never change (Palutena/Mii Fighters aside, again).

An example of this was shown in the Direct months ago with Marth's shield breaker. His default neutral B doesn't move on the ground -- however, one of the options you can choose for it is so the neutral B slides across the ground a set distance once you've let go (charging it might affect its distance, not sure yet).

While that does change how the move works, the animation and likely the knockback/angle/damage are all the same.

Another example of a property difference for a special is Kirby's neutral B. While the default for Kirby's neutral B is to suck people in to copy their abilities one of his options as a custom move for neutral B is to... basically make it so he's breathing ice (or blowing it or something). The move is still the same animation but it does something different.

However, again, this only affects special moves. Everything else about the characters aren't customizable. So you can't change Lucina's normal moves (the A moves like forward smash, up air, down tilt, etc.) Which is what determines how much of a clone a character is -- how many of their A and B moves are literally using the same animation?

Basically, even with selectable special moves for each character the character is still going to be roughly the same. Toon Link will still be mostly a clone of Link, even if his bombs have a different on-hit effect with one of the choices for customization because moves like Forward Smash and Down Air are still the same from Link (talking from animations here, not properties). Toon Link is the closest character possible to a Melee clone in this game*.

I hope this makes sense.

*: I say closest because he is the same as he was in Brawl, only 3 aerial moves differ from Link substantially (Fair, Nair, Bair), Up smash is one hit instead of three, and down tilt is a poke rather than a swipe. Only 5 moves differ in animation and one move is actually a new move (up smash). He borrows a lot from Link.
 

Vashzaron

Member
Repeating myself since seemingly no one even noticed or commented.

Lucina will probably get her own Amiibo figure, to make that work and not confuse players/buyers she could very well be in her own slot despite playing the same as Marth.
 

Lunar15

Member
I'm slowly realizing just how big this roster is. Hell, even if they cut it off here (which they won't) it's a pretty sizeable roster.

I'm positive it will be an unbalanced mess, but hey, it's smash!

Also, did anyone else notice that the part of the end is the FD version of Colosseum? First time we've seen that, if I remember correctly. Such a shame they can't have both the pits on the side and the changing platforms. Those are pretty cool on the regular stage.
 
I'm much more interested in how Robin is gonna play but nobody wants to talk about that:(

i honestly think robins gonna play like a stance character with the sword for normals and for keeping fools away while setting up magic combos lol.

in seriousness i think his specials might go like this
neutral b>thunder tomes
side b> fire tomes(it seems its just elfire though)
down b> nosferatu
up b> wind tomes

and his normals will change based on that / i also predict he will be able to change spells in the air as well at least thats what im predicting but im bad at movesets so what do i know :T
 

-Horizon-

Member
Repeating myself since seemingly no one even noticed or commented.

Lucina will probably get her own Amiibo figure, to make that work and not confuse players/buyers she could very well be in her own slot despite playing the same as Marth.

Speaking of amiibos, can't wait to get hers! :3c
 

Toxi

Banned
Controversial opinion to try and shift the subject to anything but Lucina: Metroid should have more stages for the same reason people argue Kid Icarus should have more items and Fire Emblem should have more characters. In Kid Icarus, the varied weapons are a focus of the game. In Fire Emblem, the varied characters are a focus. In Metroid, the varied worlds are the focus.

I can understand why people would be against more Metroid characters; even though Ridley and Dark Samus and Mother Brain are important, they're not really "characters" in the same way someone like Palutena is. The focus of Metroid isn't on characterization (Except in Other M). What the focus is on is exploration, and that's where it shines as a source of new stages.

That's a good one, but I'm not sure it's the right sort of track for a fight... Then again, Kraid's lair has a good remix in Melee that's also moody.
 

Amani

Member
So, if you had to pick a track from each Metroid game to be remixed for Smash, which would you pick?

My choices

  • Metroid: Brinstar
  • Metroid 2: The Tunnel
  • Super Metroid: Lower Norfair
  • Metroid Fusion: Serris
  • Metroid Prime: Hive Mecha
  • Metroid Prime Hunters: Alinos
  • Metroid Zero Mission: Can't remember any major new ones, so I'll just say Kraid's lair.
  • Metroid Prime 2: Torvus Bog upper part
  • Metroid Prime 3: Rundas
  • Metroid Other M: Desbrachian

Probably these:

Metroid Prime: Talon Overworld 2
-Space Pirates Theme
-Chozo Ghost Battle
-Thardus Battle
Metroid Prime 2: Sanctuary Theme
-Emperor Ing A
Metroid Prime 3: Gandrayda Boss Theme
-Rundas Theme is a must
-Bryyo
 
Honestly I think everyone everywhere downplayed this games roster size. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with 60-65 characters.

Probably next Smash. Sakurai did say that he's nearing the bottom pile (of new characters I think), so it would take a lot of returners to get into that amount.
 

Durden77

Member
I'm starting to think Sakurai is not fucking around with this whole "Number 1 character game in the world thing." He cut the SSE for a reason.

As much as people like to think otherwise, he really doesn't like disappointing us. I'm bracing myself for only Squirtle and Ivysaur being cut now.

God I love you Captain Falcon. You saved Smash hype. One main down, one to go....
 
Controversial opinion to try and shift the subject: Metroid should have more stages for the same reason people argue Kid Icarus should have more items and Fire Emblem should have more characters. In Kid Icarus, the varied weapons are a focus of the game. In Fire Emblem, the varied characters are a focus. In Metroid, the varied worlds are the focus.

I can understand why people would be against more Metroid characters; even though Ridley and Dark Samus and Mother Brain are important, they're not really "characters" in the same way someone like Palutena is. The focus of Metroid isn't on characterization (Except in Other M). What the focus is on is exploration, and that's where it shines as a source of new stages.


That's a good one, but I'm not sure it's the right sort of track for a fight... Then again, Kraid's lair has a good remix in Melee that's also moody.
This actually makes a lot of sense. For a game so much about atmosphere, it's weird that we basically got the same few stages over and over (lava/acid and green monster spins a stage). I hope we get a second stage that gives more on the series.
 

Azure J

Member
Lucina amiibo master race

Honestly I think everyone everywhere downplayed this games roster size. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with 60-65 characters.

Jesus. I mean I still thing the roster's going to be bigger than what people have "reasoned down" to, but this is madness.

50 - 55 tops. The closer to 50, the more probable.
 
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