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[Manbig]

Where i said that ? With changes like those nothing would change from arcade standpoint nor it would be simulation of realistic fighting game. Newbie character creation was just case of showing how career could be improved and how mechanics would work. My whole point is that Tekken is from next iteration to another a rehash and it is dying because of that. My ideas were just ideas what could be changed for better but developers chooses to not do anything. Their definition of progress is new character with shitty balancing, some animations changes and some random crap instead of proper innovation to gengre.

Arcade fighting is not learning animations/hitboxes/controlls it is all about skill in competitive environment. My proposed changes would simply shift mechanics from pixel perfection animation management to full focus on actual fighting tactic. With tekken developers introduced 3D movement which didn't improved at all from old tekkens focusing on same rehashed street fighter dogma nearly closing characters into 2D plane.

People loved TTT because it was fresh not because it was best fighter out there. Releasing game with next number on it where most of characters have most of the same animations down to every single frame is very definition of rehash.

You sound like dude closed in Q3 world saying CS is not skill based game. Skill is not based on source but on user. Both games have different mechanics and there is no answer which game has better players or is better skill based game.

Okay, I'll bite.

You seem to really want realistic simulation fighting, but the thing you are failing to realize is that striking in combat sports is all about controlling space and taking advantage of openings. This is exactly what goes on in Tekken. This "pixel perfection animation management" thing that you keep talking about is no different than establishing your range in a fight and trying to stick to that range while using movement to remain unpredictable and to help close holes in your defense.

This is EXACTLY how a fight plays out in high level matches of games like Tekken and Virtua Fighter. You try your best to fight at your character's optimal distance and punish every single opening that your opponent leaves.

So... What exactly is your beef with this? As far as I see it, it's a "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" situation. Sure, I think the game could use some mechanical changes, but nowhere near as drastic as what you are proposing. At that point, they just stop being Tekken, Virtua Fighter, or Street Fighter and become something else.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

WHAT The

 

[ViewtifulJC]

WARNING : GIANT SHIT POST

mods help

 

[kick51]

Impossible that you played lots of Tekken if you think they've hardly changed, lol.

yeah that post is the usual "blah blah fighting games haven't changed at all blah blah here's my genius idea that's terrible"

except longer

 

[CrazyTank940]

Some tweets from Michael Murray:
https://twitter.com/mykeryu/

So this pretty much means it's a new game and not like the full DoA Ultimate compared to the free version (just with this and Tag 2) like I was hoping. Considering how I bought Tag 2 on day one less than a year ago, imo I'm not too excited about that.

 

[TheSeks]

This entire thread has become this image personified.

Hey, guys, no1currs what fighting game you like. Now can we go back to discussing the fighting game model and leave DOA/other fighters that aren't Tekken out of Tekken's F2P thread?

 

[LowParry]

This entire thread has become this image personified.

Hey, guys, no1currs what fighting game you like. Now can we go back to discussing the fighting game model and leave DOA/other fighters that aren't Tekken out of Tekken's F2P thread?

I think a great discussion is this whole F2P model with fighters. If it is successful with DOA and Tekken, what will this mean for future fighters? And Capcom? Good god.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Could care less about F2P. Hopefully it'll mean TTT2 on WiiU gets cheaper. Haven't bought it yet because I'm waiting for that to be cheaper. Plus I'm not any sort of god in Tekken online so I usually stick with buds or sp

 

[.la1n]

Okay Namco you have my attention, now earn my wallet.

 

[rvy]

This entire thread has become this image personified.

Hey, guys, no1currs what fighting game you like. Now can we go back to discussing the fighting game model and leave DOA/other fighters that aren't Tekken out of Tekken's F2P thread?

I find this image offensive. Am I supposed to think I'm an invisible South American, sitting on a chair, using clown make-up and juggling clubs?

 

[Degen]

f2p... noooo

I use a lot of characters (and would want the whole roster anyway) so this just makes it a hassle, and probably more expensive in the long-run :/

Granted, it might be pretty close to just being a f2p version of TTT2 so there'd be no point in getting it

I find this image offensive. Am I supposed to think I'm an invisible South American, sitting on a chair, using clown make-up and juggling clubs?

No, but the rest of us have to assume that you are.

 

[Perkel]

Impossible that you played lots of Tekken if you think they've hardly changed, lol.

I played most of them (including games like CT) and i know what you are trying to say. My point is about where whole idea of tekken/vf/3D fighting should go.

People fear change i get that but without change there would be no tekken or VF in first place. People would still play 2D street fighter yearly but for some reason there are people who enjoy 3D fighting games. For some reason 3D fighting games stopped evolution early and completely loost any sort of force to lose street fighter chains where this was main reason why Tekken was such a hit in first place. Where earlier things like procedural animations were simply not possible now they are possible and should be used to see if it makes game better. Maybe in form of some new ip maybe some iteration. I don't know.

IMO i think 3D fighting games are in same place where were action skill based TPP games before Deamons Souls/Dark Souls. Most of people were content with gameplay design and then came DS and changed everything and suddenly ton of people wish every skill based action TPP game would be like DS. There is simply ton of things that can be changed or improved.


As of thread topic. I think they will change a lot of things but not in fun way (often is like that for F2P games)

 

[Creaking]

I played most of them (including games like CT) and i know what you are trying to say. My point is about where whole idea of tekken/vf/3D fighting should go.

People fear change i get that but without change there would be no tekken or VF in first place. People would still play 2D street fighter yearly but for some reason there are people who enjoy 3D fighting games. For some reason 3D fighting games stopped evolution early and completely loost any sort of force to lose street fighter chains where this was main reason why Tekken was such a hit in first place. Where earlier things like procedural animations were simply not possible now they are possible and should be used to see if it makes game better. Maybe in form of some new ip maybe some iteration. I don't know.

IMO i think 3D fighting games are in same place where were action skill based TPP games before Deamons Souls/Dark Souls. Most of people were content with gameplay design and then came DS and changed everything and suddenly ton of people wish every skill based action TPP game would be like DS. There is simply ton of things that can be changed or improved.


As of thread topic. I think they will change a lot of things but not in fun way (often is like that for F2P games)

So then someone should make a new fighting IP. I don't understand why you seem to think Virtua Fighter or Tekken have to mutate into something entirely unlike their past games for this to happen.

 

[Master Thespian]

Where i said that ?

You described a UFC game. Whether or not you're aware of that is irrelevant.

You sound like dude closed in Q3 world saying CS is not skill based game. Skill is not based on source but on user. Both games have different mechanics and there is no answer which game has better players or is better skill based game.

I play simulation and arcade fighting games and can tell what changes they've made to the Tekken engine over the years. But sure, continue your lecture.

 

[Perkel]

Okay, I'll bite.

You seem to really want realistic simulation fighting, but the thing you are failing to realize is that striking in combat sports is all about controlling space and taking advantage of openings. This is exactly what goes on in Tekken. This "pixel perfection animation management" thing that you keep talking about is no different than establishing your range in a fight and trying to stick to that range while using movement to remain unpredictable and to help close holes in your defense.

This is EXACTLY how a fight plays out in high level matches of games like Tekken and Virtua Fighter. You try your best to fight at your character's optimal distance and punish every single opening that your opponent leaves.

So... What exactly is your beef with this? As far as I see it, it's a "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" situation. Sure, I think the game could use some mechanical changes, but nowhere near as drastic as what you are proposing. At that point, they just stop being Tekken, Virtua Fighter, or Street Fighter and become something else.

No like i said i don't want realistic simulation i want changes to formula that will improve and evolve game on basic level. My ideas were simply just ideas those are radical but it doesn't mean that all of them need to be in next game. Revolution is not the answer, evolution is. Out of fear developers doesn't change anything on basic level and that is problem. VF is already ghost where people wonder if next iteration will be the last one and tekken is heading in the same direction. At start of this generation Tekken was system seller, now ton of people simply don't care. Not because they moved to COD but because they see same game with changed graphic and minor changes. As of Tekken being Tekken. Evolution is proper way to move gengre forward.

Maybe in DD era developers will create beta leagues that will offer players to be involved in mechanics tests. This would really help game a lot.

So then someone should make a new fighting IP. I don't understand why you seem to think Virtua Fighter or Tekken have to mutate into something entirely unlike their past games for this to happen.

Mutate ? No, evolve. Same way Tag Tournament was introduced to franchise.

You described a UFC game. Whether or not you're aware of that is irrelevant.

I don't play UFC games (they are terrible). As above i said. Those were simply ideas. Stamina or progression system could be thrown out if you like but i don't see why we shouldn't include things like procedural animations based on for example player positioning or stance.

 

[AAK]

Some tweets from Michael Murray:







https://twitter.com/mykeryu/

Gameplay is different? I don't like the sound of this. Please Namco don't fragment the player base between TTT2 and Revo.

 

[Master Thespian]

i don't see why we shouldn't include things like procedural animations based on for example player positioning or stance.

Because competitive/arcade fighting games are about gaining mastery over replicable situations. You can't replicate situations with procedural animations.

 

[foogles]

Virtua Fighter is and always will be a poverty Tekken.

I like Tekken more than Virtua Fighter and even I'm here to tell you that this statement is a big pile of bullshit.

 

[Doomshine]

Gameplay is different? I don't like the sound of this. Please Namco don't fragment the player base between TTT2 and Revo.

His tweets seem to imply that they are trying to reach new players and not necessarily Tekken players.

Anyway, the game will be out soon so we'll know soon enough.

 

[foogles]

You described a UFC game. Whether or not you're aware of that is irrelevant.

The THQ UFC games have none of what he was actually talking about. It's all canned animations. For every two minute video on YouTube that makes it look like you're getting what seems like a fight simulation, there can be HOURS of gameplay that show it's absolutely nothing like that.

 

[Perkel]

Because competitive/arcade fighting games are about gaining mastery over replicable situations. You can't replicate situations with procedural animations.

Then why we don't fight 4 moves fighting games then ? I think answer is not replicable situations but actually prediction of enemy fighting style and actions. Procedural animations doesn't mean that every move will be completely different. It may for example mean that move can be started earlier or later something which now is hardcoded into frame moveset. This also mean you can learn that and predict. If i do rocket punch in Tekken it's start and end is perfectly defined. What if rocket punch would actually be variable based on character to character distance ? Closer to enemy = slower less damage, further = faster more damage with slightly different animation. There is ton of things where things like that can change how we play (for better)

 

[Master Thespian]

The THQ UFC games have none of what he was actually talking about. It's all canned animations. For every two minute video on YouTube that makes it look like you're getting what seems like a fight simulation, there can be HOURS of gameplay that show it's absolutely nothing like that.

The UFC games made by THQ do contain procedural animation and I'm sure the EA UFC game (which is what I recommended) will take that even further based on the work they did for Fight Night. Either way, procedural animation isn't going to happen in an arcade based fighter.

 

[Oichi]

Gameplay is different? I don't like the sound of this. Please Namco don't fragment the player base between TTT2 and Revo.

I bet anything it'll be just a 1 vs 1 fighter. One of the biggest complaints about TTT2 when it first came out in arcade was that it was too hard to learn 2 characters at the same time for new players. That's why they released Tekken Unlimited so quickly after the original Tag 2 with 1 vs 2/1 vs 1/etc play

 

[bishopcruz]

Ouch, but DOA haters just make me laugh.

DoA5 is great, just hate Tekken, always have, probably since back when I was on my Saturn and people were trying to convince the world that T2 was better than VF2, and that was never ever the case.

For those who are interested in Tekken, I do think this is a good idea, though I think the best way would be all characters available, with cosmetics/costumes as things you pay for. It would keep some sort of balance. DoA5U should do this too.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Perkel stahp. Seriously.

On topic: WAT

 

[number47]

oh man, no wonder he was mad. when they made dlc for ttt2.you could get the dlc characters for free eventually. but we paid for soundtracks.

but now dlc characters?! for tekken?! wow. they better bring some new to the table.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

Must be like LoL, you can "buy" characters with in-game money, or real money, and then costumize them with money or in-game money as well.

I wonder if theres those awesome CGI ( a mini-SP mode ?!)

 

[MrCookiepants]

oh man, no wonder he was mad. when they made dlc for ttt2.you could get the dlc characters for free eventually. but we paid for soundtracks.

but now dlc characters?! for tekken?! wow. they better bring some new to the table.

Yeah, Harada has always been adamant that players should never have to pay for characters. Wow, this might have been what caused those arguments.

 

[noodalls]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBTo6sWNMWY

Crafted by NAMCO BANDAI Games' internal TEKKEN development team, TEKKEN REVOLUTION provides fighting game fans and newcomers alike the hard-hitting gameplay of the famed franchise. Choose from an initial cast of eight iconic TEKKEN characters to train and battle against AI opponents in Arcade Mode or take on fearsome human rivals spanning the globe through online Ranked and Player Matches. The game also features new bone-crunching Special Arts and Critical Arts moves designed to help newcomers deliver hard-hitting attacks and advanced players to employ new strategies with their favorite fighters. For the first time in TEKKEN history players will be able to level-up their characters, increasing three key attributes; Strength, Endurance and Vigor, to create a combatant tuned to individual play styles. Develop a defensive tank character with high HP to withstand knockout blows while offense focused players can create a damage-inflicting character with low health but high critical hit rates to devastate opponents with a flurry of attacks.

Trailer shows King, Paul, Lili, Marshall, Asuka, Steve, Alisa, Lars with video introductions. Also some new moves where characters appear to phase through certain attacks @ 1:45 and 1:46.

Also note @ 1:51 there is a green 5 bar icon, suggesting 1. online play further 2. Timing depending online play (i.e. not a card game?)

 

[Oichi]

You can definitely see the new game mechanics in the trailer with King and Asuka blasting through strings... looks very interesting enough. It reminds me of sabakis in VF. Will definitely shake things up.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Hmm, count me with the group that's interested.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Crafted by NAMCO BANDAI Games' internal TEKKEN development team, TEKKEN REVOLUTION provides fighting game fans and newcomers alike the hard-hitting gameplay of the famed franchise. Choose from an initial cast of eight iconic TEKKEN characters to train and battle against AI opponents in Arcade Mode or take on fearsome human rivals spanning the globe through online Ranked and Player Matches.

The game also features new bone-crunching Special Arts and Critical Arts moves designed to help newcomers deliver hard-hitting attacks and advanced players to employ new strategies with their favorite fighters.

Supers? In Tekken?

For the first time in TEKKEN history players will be able to level-up their characters, increasing three key attributes; Strength, Endurance and Vigor, to create a combatant tuned to individual play styles.

 

[Horseress]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBTo6sWNMWY



Trailer shows King, Paul, Lili, Marshall, Asuka, Steve, Alisa, Lars with video introductions. Also some new moves where characters appear to phase through certain attacks @ 1:45 and 1:46.

Also note @ 1:51 there is a green 5 bar icon, suggesting 1. online play further 2. Timing depending online play (i.e. not a card game?)

Hmmmmmmmm....very interesting...and a initial 8 is not that bad

 

[joeblow]

I love me some Tekken, but I don't feel bothered by the new direction the team is looking into. TTT2 is still deep enough to play for years, and this new release may be simplified enough to attract more newbies to the series. I hope it is a success for you Namco!

 

[raven777]

good that they are not using the exact same character models from TTT2, at least for some.

 

[8byte]

I love me some Tekken, but I don't feel bothered by the new direction the team is looking into. TTT2 is still deep enough to play for years, and this new release may be simplified enough to attract more newbies to the series. I hope it is a success for you Namco!

...what makes you think they'd change core gameplay mechanics?

Didn't see the above. Blah.

 

[Tyrant Rave]

Well that was... interesting all right. Curious to see the new mechanics in action.

 

[LowParry]

Well that was... interesting all right. Curious to see the new mechanics in action.

Trailer shows some animu blur ninja vanish attack! But eh, odd indeed. New models though from what I could tell with Lili and Asuka. Their eyes..................

 

[toastyToast]

The super and XP shit looks silly but it could be fun, plus its free so I can't hate. I'll definitely check it out

 

[AAK]

This is not Tekken....

 

[FlyFaster]

Man, Sony is swimming in exclusives.

 

[Orpheus Telos]

The new mechanics could be interesting but what is this leveling up nonsense? I guess this release isn't intended to be played competitively? I mean I guess that's what TT2 is for, but it would have been cool to have another version that was still legit. That would most likely split the TT2 community though and it's understandable why they would not wish to do that. In the end I'll still check it out, but I'm a little disappointed.

 

[Sayah]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBTo6sWNMWY



Trailer shows King, Paul, Lili, Marshall, Asuka, Steve, Alisa, Lars with video introductions. Also some new moves where characters appear to phase through certain attacks @ 1:45 and 1:46.

Also note @ 1:51 there is a green 5 bar icon, suggesting 1. online play further 2. Timing depending online play (i.e. not a card game?)

I don't know what to think of this direction Namco's taking with Tekken.

Nice to see improved character models. Still really looking forward to playing this come Tuesday.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I really don't see the point.

 

[AnkiRendan]

I hope other characters are available to buy right away. Give me Jun and Kunimitsu or Yoshimitsu please.

 

[Ken]

The leveling up stuff dampers my interest. Wonder if there will be matchmaking for "vanilla" characters.

 

[BadWolf]

Those new system mechanics sound interesting.

Not a fan of adding leveling up to fighters though.

 

[AAK]

I was so happy assuming this was support for TTT2.... how wrong was I

I suppose this is going to be a huge testing ground for TxSF as well.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

The leveling up stuff dampers my interest. Wonder if there will be matchmaking for "vanilla" characters.

what concerns me is that the points to level up maybe tied to the f2p model. It could be pay2win.

Even if that isnt the case, there is no way to learn matchups if every player you fight will have different attributes.

 

[Master Thespian]

It almost looks like they cancelled TxSF and tossed whatever they had planned for it into a F2P game (supers, focus attacks, ink streaks).

EDIT: Unless of course they work out some kind of projectile stuff. Then I'd be inclined to think it's a test bed for TxSF.