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[DOT DASH DOT]

Lol that is a bit harsh putting someone down for being happy with their purchase!? If I'd have bought a 2016 OLED, especially at the prices they have been going for, I'd be happy with it too! Not like the new 2017 models are leaps and bounds ahead, just incremental improvements, and the guys who decide on buying a 2017 set, enjoy the £1000 premium for a touch better quality.

 

[Insane Metal]

Yep true, but that will only affect peak brightness, if at all.

I have a feeling 2017 will be a weak year for Samsung, as far as quality sets go, not a FALD in sight either.

Oh, yes, true true.

What about the viewing angles on these QLEDs? I remember many people saying it was great and much better than usual VA panels... yet the Rtings review cites viewing angles as a letdown... what happened?

 

[Terbinator]

I know what you mean. Whenever an upgraded version of something comes out, people seem to find the need to re-state how happy they are with their purchases...

Well obviously. This is probably one of the most financially detached threads on GAF. It's literally driven by rabid consumerism as much as advances in tech.

...and how "incremental" the upgrade are...

Which is a fair comment, really, if you are coming from a comparitive set. Incremental is an interpretation of the facts we have and it's clear the panels all major player will be using this year have fallen short from expectations.

...along with making other excuses on why adopting new tech isn't important, etc...

Has any person actually said this though w/ impressions or reviews to suggest otherwise?

 

[finalflame]

Lol that is a bit harsh putting someone down for being happy with their purchase!? If I'd have bought a 2016 OLED, especially at the prices they have been going for, I'd be happy with it too! Not like the new 2017 models are leaps and bounds ahead, just incremental improvements, and the guys who decide on buying a 2017 set, enjoy the £1000 premium for a touch better quality.

I might still buy a B6 OLED. In fact, it's what is most likely to happen unless the C7/A1E review extremely well and show to be worth their price differential. I'm just not going to immediately dismiss them as worthwhile upgrades over their predecessors before seeing actual in-depth reviews.

Well obviously. This is probably one of the most financially detached threads on GAF. It's literally driven by rabid consumerism as much as advances in tech.

Which is a fair comment, really, if you are coming from a comparitive set. Incremental is an interpretation of the facts we have and it's clear the panels all major player will be using this year have fallen short from expectations.

Has any person actually said this though w/ impressions or reviews to suggest otherwise?

Yes, you're correct on all fronts. If I was the current owner of a B6, I'd also not be itching to upgrade, especially since that B6 would've been a relatively large purchase, but we also don't know a whole lot yet about real-world A1E/C7 performance and don't quite have a leg to stand on to start drawing comparisons before we have in-depth reviews. The "rabid consumer" part of me wants to just drop the $ on what I assume will be the best set of the bunch (A1E), but I am trying to be a reasonable individual and wait to look at in-depth impressions instead of giving Sony all my money on the hope they will keep their pricing's promise

As for excuses, I see a lot of "adopting new tech when it's in infancy isn't worth it", but for a lot of people being on the bleeding edge and reaping those benefits sooner than anyone else is absolutely worth it.

 

[Yawnny]

28ms on the B6 vs 21ms on the new LGs? Yeah I ain't upgrading for that.

28ms for the B6? Was that after the firmware patch? I thought people were saying it was around the 60ms range.. which is ridonkulous.

 

[Kambing]

I've bought two LG TV's from Cleveland Plasma and have not had any issues, but was perusing AVSforum and came across the LG Authorized dealer list:

http://www.lg.com/us/authorizeddealers/lg_online_authorized_retailers

Pretty cut and dry that Cleveland Plasma is on the 'not' authorized lol... weird thing is I was even able to register my product on the LG website and listed place of purchase as Cleveland Plasma.

 

[Yawnny]

I know what you mean. Whenever an upgraded version of something comes out, people seem to find the need to re-state how happy they are with their purchases and how "incremental" the upgrade are, along with making other excuses on why adopting new tech isn't important, etc.

I think all is good as long as everyone is happy with what they have...

I agree with this. I'm only still itnerested because I haven't bought any OLED yet, so I'm still looking at what's the best of the best as of 2017.. I'm not looking at upgrade comparisons.

If you have an OLED and are happy with it I believe the 2017 'upgrades' are fairly negligible and I completely understand people defending what they bought in 2016

 

[Yawnny]

For all we know the LG OLED's could be the best there will ever be and it's all downhill from here while brands try to bring prices down.. just like the Pioneer Kuro Elite.. it was arguably the best plasma for the entire plasma run and it came out early on..

 

[jstevenson]

I've bought two LG TV's from Cleveland Plasma and have not had any issues, but was perusing AVSforum and came across the LG Authorized dealer list:

http://www.lg.com/us/authorizeddealers/lg_online_authorized_retailers

Pretty cut and dry that Cleveland Plasma is on the 'not' authorized lol... weird thing is I was even able to register my product on the LG website and listed place of purchase as Cleveland Plasma.

wow when did that change, I swear Cleveland Plasma was authorized back when i bought from them, I even went through warranty stuff with LG. hmm

 

[Yukstin]

28ms for the B6? Was that after the firmware patch? I thought people were saying it was around the 60ms range.. which is ridonkulous.

28 for B6, 32-33 for the C6/E6 in game mode for both SDR game mode and HDR game mode.

I think it's close to 50-60 when it's not engaged in game modes.

 

[Art Vandilay]

wow when did that change, I swear Cleveland Plasma was authorized back when i bought from them, I even went through warranty stuff with LG. hmm

I've bought two LG TV's from Cleveland Plasma and have not had any issues, but was perusing AVSforum and came across the LG Authorized dealer list:

http://www.lg.com/us/authorizeddealers/lg_online_authorized_retailers

Pretty cut and dry that Cleveland Plasma is on the 'not' authorized lol... weird thing is I was even able to register my product on the LG website and listed place of purchase as Cleveland Plasma.

This has been discussed many times, as recently as one page back. Being authorized doesn't mean shit.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Would a B6 or a Sony 930e be better for gaming? I just want a TV strictly for gaming in 4k. I don't have time for TV or anything else nowadays and barely any for gaming. My biggest beef with OLED is the lack of brightness that I read about.

 

[Lima]

So the second Q7 rtings bought from Amazon shows some slightly higher values as far as brightness and contrast go (though this is standard series deviation between panels). Looks like Samsung is a miss this year.
No FALD flagship and mediocre edge lit TVs throughout. Blergh.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

So the second Q7 rtings bought from Amazon shows some slightly higher values as far as brightness and contrast go (though this is standard series deviation between panels). Looks like Samsung is a miss this year.
No FALD flagship and mediocre edge lit TVs throughout. Blergh.

Oh dear, exactly what I thought, I'm shocked with the cost n all, the KS8000/9000 owners will be feeling good.

 

[Yawnny]

28 for B6, 32-33 for the C6/E6 in game mode for both SDR game mode and HDR game mode.

I think it's close to 50-60 when it's not engaged in game modes.

Ah okay. I think Linus Tech Tips shit on the B6 because of the Input Lag (stating around 60ms for HDR games).. I'll see if I can look it up when I get home from work.

 

[dallow_bg]

Ah okay. I think Linus Tech Tips shit on the B6 because of the Input Lag (stating around 60ms for HDR games).. I'll see if I can look it up when I get home from work.

I'm sure that video was made before the recent firmware update to address just that.

 

[Yawnny]

I'm sure that video was made before the recent firmware update to address just that.

That's what I figured. I mentioned that in my previous post wondering if that was the case before the firmware patch. Good to get that cleared up.

 

[Madness]

Would a B6 or a Sony 930e be better for gaming? I just want a TV strictly for gaming in 4k. I don't have time for TV or anything else nowadays and barely any for gaming. My biggest beef with OLED is the lack of brightness that I read about.

Wait for reviews on the 930E first. Have to know input lag, brightness levels, etc. Should be releasing soon. The 930D was a good television but the B6 was superior to it in almost everything.

 

[gsrjedi]

Noticed Best Buy has the 49" Sony X900E down to $1200. It was listed the same as the 55 for a couple weeks. I can only fit a 50" in my space,& so far this is looking like my top choice.

 

[Jarnet87]

Will be looking forward to reviews for Sony X800E and Samung MU7000 as I need something in the 40-43 range for the bedroom. If they are significant improvements over the X800D and KU6300 I may bite at some point this year, if not I may just get the KU6290/3000 on the cheap.

 

[Geneijin]

Really just the first 2 sentences of that post. I've never seen so many 2016 OLED owners sooo happy with their purchase after seeing all of what 2017 has to offer. (not referring to just Sony TVs)

Personally I think it's great people are happy with their purchases.

That's largely because instead of waiting next year for 2017 LG OLED TVs to drop to what 2016 LG OLED TVs are going for now, they rather buy now for a discounted price for negligible differences and couldn't be happier. It's all about how long you can wait and what your budget and compromise is. Like the biggest change if you're a home theater geek is the ABL threshold has increased to 150 nits if you're sensitive to that, and the 2-point and 20-point HDR calibration options for finer tuning. Plus, the CMS controls were awful on the 2016 models and you were better off not touching them more often than not. Would be nice if the 2017 models had better CMS controls.

 

[KevinG]

Personally, I'm waiting for 2.1 (information on it in the OP), but the benefits of it are years off for the most part. I plan to use my 2018 TV for 4-5 years, but if you're someone that gets a new TV every 2-3 years there is absolutely no need to wait.

ELI5? Well really it's up to you and your needs. The upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1 is bigger than from standard definition to HDMI 2.0 combined. But ultimately what matters is the content. We really don't know how many things will even support 2.1 in the next few years.



Here's a simple image that may be easier for you to visualize:

First came this:

Now this soon:

My feeling is that I don't want to be early adopter on this stuff--have to upgrade your cabling, receivers, no consoles that support the variable-refresh rate output, etc.. As such the '16 or a '17 are more exciting to me as they represent a more mature stack and hardware ecosystem.

Thanks!

I'll probably have my B6 for at least 5 years as my main set.

I don't suspect we will see much in the way of widespread support for HDMI 2.1 feature set before I'm ready to upgrade again.

 

[Chumley]

Yeah 2.1 is kind of pointless. Content is still very light for 4k and utilizing the maximum potential of 2016 OLED sets as is.

 

[blankslatenator]

Once AMD puts out the capability to have endless amounts of RAM and be able to display 4k 60hz stable, I will be completely happy with my E6 purchase. Until then I will sit on my 1080p 60hz. Stable 970 card and base PS4. Plus 2.1 still coming.... eventually,so no rush to upgrade imo.

 

[wege12]

What size do you need? At what distance do you sit from the tv?

55 inches is plenty for me and I sit about 6-7 feet away from my television.

 

[wege12]

You didn't mention what was wrong with your current setup, so it's hard to know what the drawbacks of waiting are. If you have a decent 1080p set, I would counsel continuing to wait. 4K and HDR content is still very sparse, and often not that impressive since a lot of what is available comes through streaming services with less than ideal bitrates. 4K is also still not quite there from a gaming perspective, either. Consoles are upscaling or disabling processing effects to get there. On the PC, the 1080Ti can just about get 60fps on most newish games with high detail, but isn't quite there on all of them (and is quite expensive). I expect that come 2020 these problems will be solved.

Anyway, there is a third option available to you don't want to wait but want to optimize the purchasing power of your money: buy a 2016 KS8000 instead, then buy an OLED in ~3 years. The KS8000 goes on sale for about half of what the B6 does, and it will also give you good input lag. I think that the price of OLED sets will drop a fair amount over the next few years due to improvements in manufacturing and greater competition. As a result, I think this plan is probably no more expense than buying a 2017 OLED would be, you will end up with a better TV at the end, and you will get a good TV to use for the next few years.

I have a 42 inch Toshiba XV540U. This TV is about 9 years old lol. That sounds horrible when reading it out loud. This TV is what motivated me to get OLED because my Toshiba TV black levels are horrid. So I really don't want to spend money on anything other than OLED. If I made more money, this wouldn't be an issue because I could buy the 2016 model and upgrade when the 2018 OLEDs are released. However, that is not my reality yet as I'm a poor college student.

 

[Theonik]

Yeah 2.1 is kind of pointless. Content is still very light for 4k and utilizing the maximum potential of 2016 OLED sets as is.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Do you want to buy a new receiver come 2020?

2.1 brings big benefits to existing 4k applications that will matter next year anyway it's not an 8K thing.

 

[GeoNeo]

The thing I'm waiting for with next years OLED TV's is support for HDMI 2.1 & Game Mode VRR (variable refresh rate).

That is gonna be a nice jump up. Anyone that games on PC right now at high refresh rate display that also supports variable refresh rate knows how much better it is than gaming at 60Hz.

I've very happy to see LG at least support 1080@120Hz in this years models which is very doable by todays GPUs.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-hdmi-2-1-specifications-revealed

 

[Metalstrike]

So the second Q7 rtings bought from Amazon shows some slightly higher values as far as brightness and contrast go (though this is standard series deviation between panels). Looks like Samsung is a miss this year.
No FALD flagship and mediocre edge lit TVs throughout. Blergh.

Indeed

Ugh, seeing this kind of uniformity makes me shudder. (2nd Q7 unit)

http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/q7f/q7fv2-dse-large.jpg

 

[WiseguyMVP]

Guess I'll be waiting for a while because I'm looking to get a 60 inch OLED with minimal lag for around $1000-1500.

 

[Chumley]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Do you want to buy a new receiver come 2020?

2.1 brings big benefits to existing 4k applications that will matter next year anyway it's not an 8K thing.

What benefits? What content actually uses 120hz refresh rate?

 

[Cyriades]

I'm a man of little means..

I got the KU7000 $498

https://www.samsclub.com/sams/49-uh...FVlYkKoTkzCJDWr3u8wXIA&pubNAME=Slickdeals+LLC

 

[Iced_Eagle]

What benefits? What content actually uses 120hz refresh rate?

1) Dynamic HDR metadata. Allows scene-by-scene or frame-by-frame HDR metadata with the picture. With HDR10 today, it's static. As in, when you start a movie, it defines all of the metadata once. This is an advantage Dolby Vision has today, which is now directly in the HDMI 2.1 spec.

2) Variable Refresh Rate. Definitely huge on the list for gamers. GSync/FreeSync capabilities as part of the standard is huge.

3) Larger pipe = no need to compress. HDMI 2.0 can only handle 4:4:4 at 4k/60fps with 8-bit color depth. If you are on a 10-bit TV, you need color compression to get 4k/60. Most people buying (decent) 4k TV's are getting 10-bit panels or greater, and want to use that extra color information. HDMI 2.1 is important if you want uncompressed color information at 4k/60Hz. I believe it can do 4k 120Hz with no compression up to like 16-bits (?), and 8k 60Hz with no compression up to 16 bit. Sure, for TV's, very few things can drive 4k / 120 Hz, but it's really the ability to run 4k / 60 uncompressed which has more immediate benefits. If you do hook up your PC, you can have your TV be a giant uncompressed 4k / 120 Hz GSync-esque monitor as well with HDMI 2.1.

The first two points are potentially software upgradeable. They don't require the new cable for the most part. However, the last point is something you won't get unless everything in the chain is HDMI 2.1 certified as higher bandwidth requirements require updated hardware throughout the chain to support.

 

[Chumley]

1) Dynamic HDR metadata. Allows scene-by-scene or frame-by-frame HDR metadata with the picture. With HDR10 today, it's static. As in, when you start a movie, it defines all of the metadata once. This is an advantage Dolby Vision has today, which is now directly in the HDMI 2.1 spec.

2) Variable Refresh Rate. Definitely huge on the list for gamers. GSync/FreeSync capabilities as part of the standard is huge.

3) Larger pipe = no need to compress. HDMI 2.0 can only handle 4:4:4 at 4k/60fps with 8-bit color depth. If you are on a 10-bit TV, you need color compression to get 4k/60. Most people buying (decent) 4k TV's are getting 10-bit panels or greater, and want to use that extra color information. HDMI 2.1 is important if you want uncompressed color information at 4k/60Hz. I believe it can do 4k 120Hz with no compression up to like 16-bits (?), and 8k 60Hz with no compression up to 16 bit. Sure, for TV's, very few things can drive 4k / 120 Hz, but it's really the ability to run 4k / 60 uncompressed which has more immediate benefits. If you do hook up your PC, you can have your TV be a giant uncompressed 4k / 120 Hz GSync-esque monitor as well with HDMI 2.1.

The first two points are potentially software upgradeable. They don't require the new cable for the most part. However, the last point is something you won't get unless everything in the chain is HDMI 2.1 certified as higher bandwidth requirements require updated hardware throughout the chain to support.

The HDR thing doesn't sound like an even remotely useful upgrade over what's currently there unless you're comparing side by side or something, which I'll never do, and I'll also never hook my PC up to my TV. I mainly use it for watching TV shows and movies, sometimes PS4 gaming. So I guess some people would find the upgrade useful, but not me.

 

[finalflame]

The HDR thing doesn't sound like an even remotely useful upgrade over what's currently there unless you're comparing side by side or something, which I'll never do, and I'll also never hook my PC up to my TV. I mainly use it for watching TV shows and movies, sometimes PS4 gaming. So I guess some people would find the upgrade useful, but not me.

The HDR change is huge for HDR10 content, which is currently all UHD-BR. With that said, it's software upgradeable so one can hope the likes of LG and Sony will add it in without the need for new hardware/TV. It puts HDR10 on par with DV which is the superior HDR format.

 

[Chumley]

The HDR change is huge for HDR10 content, which is currently all UHD-BR. With that said, it's software upgradeable so one can hope the likes of LG and Sony will add it in without the need for new hardware/TV. It puts HDR10 on par with DV which is the superior HDR format.

HDR10 movies already look damn good, in lamens terms how would they actually look better? The one thing I really want is better brightness but I know that's only possible with newer OLED's.

 

[Futurevoid]

Ah okay. I think Linus Tech Tips shit on the B6 because of the Input Lag (stating around 60ms for HDR games).. I'll see if I can look it up when I get home from work.

That was pre the release of the HDR Game Mode patch. HDR game mode brought the input lag down to 28ms in HDR mode. A negligible difference to the 2017 sets as mentioned.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

The HDR thing doesn't sound like an even remotely useful upgrade over what's currently there unless you're comparing side by side or something, which I'll never do, and I'll also never hook my PC up to my TV. I mainly use it for watching TV shows and movies, sometimes PS4 gaming. So I guess some people would find the upgrade useful, but not me.

If improving picture quality on a television is what you would describe as not even remotely useful, then sure.

HDR10 movies already look damn good, in lamens terms how would they actually look better? The one thing I really want is better brightness but I know that's only possible with newer OLED's.

And to think, you think they are good now. They will look even better with dynamic metadata!

Here's a very dry discussion on it, with off-camera footage (obviously SDR capturing of HDR video so obviously not accurate visuals): https://vimeo.com/164619204

 

[holygeesus]

I mean if you feel the need to post stuff like this it's already very telling ¯\_(&#12484_/¯. I've seen more than a few on this forum and on AVS. There really is no point in these kinds of posts.

Nah, I've been posting pretty much since owning the set, giddy with praise for it. You must just have missed the hundreds of posts I've made I guess...

It's more relief, because I know that if there had been massive improvements, I would have been digging deep to upgrade. The Sony might yet convince me, depending on user feedback.

 

[Kyoufu]

That was pre the release of the HDR Game Mode patch. HDR game mode brought the input lag down to 28ms in HDR mode. A negligible difference to the 2017 sets as mentioned.

I feel like Linus and that other guy would compare 28ms to their monitors and call it slow too.

 

[Theonik]

1) Dynamic HDR metadata. Allows scene-by-scene or frame-by-frame HDR metadata with the picture. With HDR10 today, it's static. As in, when you start a movie, it defines all of the metadata once. This is an advantage Dolby Vision has today, which is now directly in the HDMI 2.1 spec.

2) Variable Refresh Rate. Definitely huge on the list for gamers. GSync/FreeSync capabilities as part of the standard is huge.

3) Larger pipe = no need to compress. HDMI 2.0 can only handle 4:4:4 at 4k/60fps with 8-bit color depth. If you are on a 10-bit TV, you need color compression to get 4k/60. Most people buying (decent) 4k TV's are getting 10-bit panels or greater, and want to use that extra color information. HDMI 2.1 is important if you want uncompressed color information at 4k/60Hz. I believe it can do 4k 120Hz with no compression up to like 16-bits (?), and 8k 60Hz with no compression up to 16 bit. Sure, for TV's, very few things can drive 4k / 120 Hz, but it's really the ability to run 4k / 60 uncompressed which has more immediate benefits. If you do hook up your PC, you can have your TV be a giant uncompressed 4k / 120 Hz GSync-esque monitor as well with HDMI 2.1.

The first two points are potentially software upgradeable. They don't require the new cable for the most part. However, the last point is something you won't get unless everything in the chain is HDMI 2.1 certified as higher bandwidth requirements require updated hardware throughout the chain to support.

Also TVs aren't just used by people watching movies and live TV. Monitor usecases as well as PC games will benefit immensely.

 

[Paragon]

Why should I care about a 4K set having HDMI 2.1? Will I deeply regret owning a 2016 set when HDMI 2.1 is "standard" next year?

HDMI 2.1 brings "Game Mode VRR" to displays.
This should be equivalent to G-Sync / FreeSync, but for televisions.

In short, it eliminates screen tearing and judder, and should virtually eliminate input lag.
It enables games to run smoothly at unlocked framerates instead of having to be locked to 30 or 60. Hopefully supporting a range of at least 24-120 FPS.

 

[Insane Metal]

So the second Q7 rtings bought from Amazon shows some slightly higher values as far as brightness and contrast go (though this is standard series deviation between panels). Looks like Samsung is a miss this year.
No FALD flagship and mediocre edge lit TVs throughout. Blergh.

Just read that. Wow, Samsung dropped the ball this year... and they're charging OLED prices for those tvs LOL

 

[Theonik]

That has kind of been Samsung's gig for years now. Where they've always won was in a broad spectrum of value sets which will probably still exist this year and make them a lot of money. They are not a quality brand, not least of which because their huge volumes basically force them to have like 0 quality control with respect to their panels.

 

[Yawnny]

So is it confirmed that no 2017 OLEDS are going to have HDMI 2.1?

EDIT: Or I could be reading this wrong and people are saying that it IS slated for this year. I keep reading comments about it being far off and implying 2018.

 

[dallow_bg]

So is it confirmed that no 2017 OLEDS are going to have HDMI 2.1?

EDIT: Or I could be reading this wrong and people are saying that it IS slated for this year. I keep reading comments about it being far off and implying 2018.

Nothing in 2017 will have 2.1
2018 may have 2.1 devices but I'm skeptical/cautious.

 

[Psychotic_Mantis]

I absolutely want to go with a 75'' and $3,500 was kind of my high point. I have been watching the 75SJ8500 from LG but I also noticed the Samsung MU8000 75'' today. I am going to be putting this in the basement and I do like it to be darker when gaming and watching movies/tv.

Does anyone have any experience with either LG or Samsung? These are higher tier but not top tier. The big issue I have read about LG is the IPS panel and Blacks don't look great. I have a 60'' LG 1080P down there now. The Blacks aren't perfect and it doesn't always bother me...but I am wondering if it would if I drop this kind of cash on a tv.

Anyway, if anyone has any insight or advice, it would be much appreciated!!

 

[Smokey]

Yeah 2.1 is kind of pointless. Content is still very light for 4k and utilizing the maximum potential of 2016 OLED sets as is.

IMO

With 2.1 literally about a year away, if you're going to spend $3,000+ on a TV, it's enough of a game changer for that kind of money it should be included in the set.

That has kind of been Samsung's gig for years now. Where they've always won was in a broad spectrum of value sets which will probably still exist this year and make them a lot of money. They are not a quality brand, not least of which because their huge volumes basically force them to have like 0 quality control with respect to their panels.

This is my feeling on Samsung especially after giving them a 2nd try on their Galaxy phone. Had enough. The fact that I currently own a Samsung set that has all kinds of picture/panel issues solidifies it further for me.

 

[Yawnny]

IMO

With 2.1 literally about a year away, if you're going to spend $3,000+ on a TV, it's enough of a game changer for that kind of money it should be included in the set.

What are your thoughts on why you consider it a game changer?

 

[Madness]

Will be looking forward to reviews for Sony X800E and Samung MU7000 as I need something in the 40-43 range for the bedroom. If they are significant improvements over the X800D and KU6300 I may bite at some point this year, if not I may just get the KU6290/3000 on the cheap.

The listings for the X800E don't show them to be any hardware improvement at all. Same processor, etc. I do think most of it will be software based? Better audio, o/s functionality. The biggest improvement they could make is probably brightness levels. So hopefully they at least have more than the current 400 nits sustained etc.