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[Cindi Mayweather]

Me reading through this thread:

I thought this was supposed to be for scrubs/noobs like me who just want to start getting into fighting games.... what's with all these difficult terms and whatnot? Did I miss a FAQ about them or something? Or am I just too far gone that I can't even understand half of the stuff that you guys are talking about?

Thread says from Scrub to Master. This thread is for any fighting game player hoping to get better. You don't go from Scrub to Master. There's tiers in between. Getting out of scrub-dom isn't exactly the hardest. Many of us are trying to reach the competitive high level. If this thread were only about not being a noob/scrub, it would have lasted all of ten pages. Fighting games are about endless, constant improvement and there's plenty to learn.

What is your game of choice so we may provide the appropriate resources?

I wouldn't worry about the terminology at all. Take it slow.

IMO, post matches for us to critique so we can you get started on the path.

Start with this video.

Concepts Every 2D Fighting Game Player Should Know

Another:

How to play Street Fighter like a Pro

 

[DunpealD]

Thread says from Scrub to Master. This thread is for any fighting game player hoping to get better. You don't go from Scrub to Master. There's tiers in between. Getting out of scrub-dom isn't exactly the hardest. Many of us are trying to reach the competitive high level. If this thread were only about not being a noob/scrub, it would have lasted all of ten pages. Fighting games are about endless, constant improvement and there's plenty to learn.

What is your game of choice so we may provide the appropriate resources?

I wouldn't worry about the terminology at all. Take it slow.

IMO, post matches for us to critique so we can you get started on the path.

Tbf. I think it would be a good idea to put a glossary right at the OPs first line. Because people will have to get used to the different terminologies.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Tbf. I think it would be a good idea to put a glossary right at the OPs first line. Because people will have to get used to the different terminologies.

Yeah, I'm looking for a glossary. Don't mistake my post for being dismissive. I'm editing the first post now.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Beginner Resources

David Sirlin's Super Street Fighter II Turbo tutorial - Concentrates on core fighting game fundamental concepts such as spacing, zoing, pressing the advantage, and meaty. Required viewing no matter what fighting game you prefer, because chances are, it transfers over to that game.

Concepts every 2d fighting game player should - Another SF oriented video that concentrates on terminology and concepts with examples. Again, it can be applied to any fighting game.

Guilty Gear Crash Course - Covers a crash course for Guilty Gear that features things like spacing, defense, offense, and all concepts needed to become intermediate and high level.

Patrick Miller's Master to Masher - A great (and FREE) introduction to fighting game concepts, again using Street Fighter II as a template.

Maximillian Dood's How To Get Good At Fighting Games - Must watch.

 

[DunpealD]

Yeah, I'm looking for a glossary. Don't mistake my post for being dismissive. I'm editing the first post now.

Was just throwing it out as a suggestion, because you were asking for stuff to add in the OP.

Glossary wise I found SRK board post, Eventhubs glossary and SRK Wiki glossary.

I like the board post because it includes the frame data.

 

[Son Of Sparda]

You are right. I saw the "The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master" and I wrongfully thought its solely focused on guys like me without reading the title completely. So, sorry about that.

I'm actually not playing any fighting right now but I have SFV pre-ordered on PSN and want to get serious with that one. I do have SF IV on my PS3 but I'm not sure if I should bother with that since V is only 10 days away. I was thinking of working on my inputs for special attacks with Ken so I'll be a little more ready when SFV drops but then again d-pads on DS3 and DS4 are different and I hear that SFV is gonna be more d-pad friendly with inputs so again I'm not sure if I should bother with IV.

Thanks for the resources, I'll definitely check them out.

try Patrick Miller's From Masher to Master. Free ebook.

Thank you. Just downloaded it. Gonna give it a go later on.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

The board post rocks.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Another good beginner resource to watch from Max.

Fighting Games Are Not Easy

The other day when I was feeling discouraged, I rewatched it and it helped me find my confidence again.

 

[Kuksune]

I have some time right now to play VF

 

[Kuksune]

I just backdashed into a ring out today...i am worthless at VF in general too.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Ultra Street Fighter IV Farewell Casuals featuring Trykt

This will be the last time I play SFIV in a long, long time.

I wanted to say goodbye to it by playing someone who helped teach me a lot of basic fighting game fundamentals such as invincibility and meaty. This guy is good, and being able to beat him is a wonderful farewell to the game that made me take fighters more seriously.

He won a lot more, but I came close more than once.

Critique tomorrow.

 

[oneida]

I just backdashed into a ring out today...i am worthless at VF in general too.

lol, you'll get a feel for the stage sizes in no time. have you watched this vid?
https://youtu.be/boM7T3BWewY

 

[Dremark]

Nice! Yeah, that's the Xinput model. Shipping puts it pretty close to $180US for me; I might be willing to pay that just for the convenience. Awesome! Thanks for this!

No problem, glad I could be helpful.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Researching and reading as much material before SFV. Collecting everything here to help me become better as I grind ST to nail spacing and timing before V.


http://shoryuken.com/2013/07/24/domination-101-controlling-space/

 

[direct_quote]

"YOU CAN'T ESCAPE!"

Opponent holds up. Escapes.

I do pick Hyperbomb from time to time because yes, landing it is oh so satisfying. You can make it inescapable by activating it just as your airborne opponent lands (great for people who empty jump to parry your anti-air).

I think this is what Urien should say when he uses Aegis because you really can't escape..

 

[Astarte]

I was supposed to have learned a bit of Sol so that I could get a handle of all of his options

I learned 3S Yun instead. I now have poverty Genei Jin setups and combos. It wasn't worth it.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Ultra Street Fighter IV Farewell Casuals featuring Trykt

This will be the last time I play SFIV in a long, long time.

I wanted to say goodbye to it by playing someone who helped teach me a lot of basic fighting game fundamentals such as invincibility and meaty. This guy is good, and being able to beat him is a wonderful farewell to the game that made me take fighters more seriously.

He won a lot more, but I came close more than one.

Critique tomorrow.

Audio is very out of sync by the way, if you weren't aware of it already. Not that it really matters for critiquing purposes.

 

[Marvel]

Something I didn't get to learn properly in V's beta's because of the quick matchmaking were Crush Counter combos. Can't wait to sit in the lab and work em out.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Audio is very out of sync by the way, if you weren't aware of it already. Not that it really matters for critiquing purposes.

Thanks. I'll fix it.

I'm learning a lot from playing ST.

My biggest weaknesses is anti-airing. I think once I get that, teching, my fundamentals will be finally out of the beginner stage.

 

[entremet]

So for dudes and dudettes in the working world, how often do you train?

And how much is that spend trolling sites--Shoryuken, Smash Boards, YT, Twitch to learn the metagame?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

So for dudes and dudettes in the working world, how often do you train?

And how much is that spend trolling sites--Shoryuken, Smash Boards, YT, Twitch to learn the metagame?

I try to get in an hour of play a day. That may change when my schedule ramps up.

I spend a few hours at work reading metagame and researching how to get better.

 

[Ragingnight]

haven't really played fighting games serious in months. I do some casual troll games with friends over on stream for SF4 (and I dislike SF4).

I think once you learn the fundamentals of fighting games (2d or 3rd) you can carry it over broadly to other games and just have to kick off the rust.

SFV isn't going to be this eye opening revelation for people playing SF4. Yes it might hurt some SF4 specialist but overall the people good in SF4 will still be good in SFV.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Great Dom101, but this quote in particular:

As a little aside, this is why I tend to be more interested in tactics generally than in combos alone. Combos never CREATE an opportunity, theyre merely ways of taking advantage of existing opportunities. A prime example is again the Japanese MVC2 players- in the few chances they got to land a combo, they put on a real exhibition. However, in 25 matches, I can count the number of such opportunities on one hand. Combos are only any good when youve already broken down an opponents defense- and against good players, that dont come easy. As such, the threat that goes with combo skills can be entirely neutralized simply by keeping yourself out of position to get hit with them in the first place. This makes things like positioning, setups, tricks, etc, primary in a way that combos (while still important) can never be.

http://shoryuken.com/2013/07/29/domination-101-critical-breakdown/

How do I create opportunities? I haven't concentrated on combos for the same reason. But I don't know how to make opportunities yet.

In SFV, opportunities for combos come in the form of crush counters.

This Dom101 completely changed my thinking with my current game plan but I want to know more. I'd love to learn about strategy and setups and positioning.

 

[Ardenyal]

Don't know if this was already included in the resources but the footsies handbook by Maj is also worth reading:
http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

Lots of great video examples included to illustrate the points.

 

[FindMyFarms]

Researching and reading as much material before SFV. Collecting everything here to help me become better as I grind ST to nail spacing and timing before V.


http://shoryuken.com/2013/07/24/domination-101-controlling-space/

Don't grind ST, it's not going to carry over into SF5 outside of fireball/anti-air patterns which is a pretty generic meta you can get out of a lot of fighting games.

Throws are way too good in ST in terms of mashing and anti footsie spacing, it'll give you a sense of rhythm that will be completely different in 5.

Also that article is a little too esoteric and ST centric as well. There are some excerpts that aren't even good examples. While S-Kill is a smart man, I wouldn't pay too much attention to his SRK pieces.

"Thats annoying for all kinds of reasons, but whats worse (and relevant to our concern here) is that, when hes got the right range, he doesnt even want the strong to connect. Hes using it to occupy the space in front of you, and is quite content to just repeatedly whiff."

DON'T DO THAT. Sirlin got away with that in a tournament because his opponent was dumb. But one of the key aspects too footsies? Whiff punishing. Now granted, if an opponent lets you get away with something, always take advantage of it. They're not anti-airing? jump in all day! But there's a stark contrast between sound fundamentals and taking advantage of glaring weaknesses.

 

[FindMyFarms]

How do I create opportunities? I haven't concentrated on combos for the same reason. But I don't know how to make opportunities yet.

The broadest answer is to always take note of WHEN, WHERE, and WHY your opponents press buttons, and then have an appropriate counter in those scenarios. This is most immediately tangible when it comes to footsies, but applies to every aspect of a game.

First off, the footsie triangle :

Pokes > Walking Forward > Whiff Punish > Pokes

If you think someone is just walking up to you, you poke them.

If you think someone is going to poke, you stay outside that range and whiff punish their poke.

If you think someone is looking to whiff punish, you simply walk forward. In order to whiff punish, they must stay outside your poke range. If you're walking forward, and they want to maintain that range outside of your poke range, they must in return walk backwards, thus losing ground.

NOW

With that being said, here's a very easy tournament example of how to "open someone up" also how to brainlessly scrub bust someone in the opening rounds. I'll use a ryu mirror in sf4 as an example, primarily with basic, non system mechanic tools.

The first thing I'll do is stand right outside of ryu's cr. mk range. If he whiffs it, I'll sweep to punish. This will happen maybe 2 or 3 times. Eventually they'll get the message that they can't press that button at that range and get a little gun shy. Now I can walk up a little bit closer and it's my turn to use my own cr. mk. If it's a counter hit, I know that they get scared at that specific range, if it's not, I know i can walk up even closer. Every time I'm walking forward, I'm taking note of when they like to press buttons, so that I can make a read and counter hit them. Ideally, you get them so scared to press buttons that you can walk up and eventually just throw them. That's a REALLY basic example of opening someone up.

Hopefully that makes sense, if not feel free to ask about specifics and I'll explain what I can.

 

[FindMyFarms]

Oh, I forgot to mention, when trying to improve, it's best to focus on one specific aspect of your game, and learn how to apply it properly before moving on to something else.

For now, I'd recommend picking a shoto in sf4 and learning how to anti-air consistently with deep dragon punches. Deep meaning they are very close to the ground/you when you dp them.

Making someone jump while you're dominating the ground is your reward, if you can't anti-air, then you can't cash in on your reward (damage.)

Also people will just jump anyways so you have to be able to anti-air regardless. When someone can't jump because you're anti-airing them, and they can't do anything on the ground because you're winning the footsie battle, the match is yours.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Lots of people tell me that ST is great for fundamentals. For one, it's fast as shit, which increases your reaction time and makes things go easier. Another thing, it's a simple game so things like spacing and timing are required for optimal play and that has definitely been my experience. The general consensus is tur if you get good at ST, you can play any 2d fighter. I've seen lots of evidence to prove it as well.

For what it's worth, there's multiple threads about this on the net.

https://m.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/comments/3mqhfb/super_turbo_and_fundamentals/

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/176848/which-fighting-game-is-best-for-learning-the-basics

My experience tells me that the "ST IS fundamentals" line is 100% correct. Saying it only teaches fb zoning seems pretty wrong. If I would, I'd do it with A2 but it's not as popular as ST on Fightcade.

And no more SFIV!

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Lots of people tell me that ST is great for fundamentals. For one, it's fast as shit, which increases your reaction time and makes things go easier. Another thing, it's a simple game so things like spacing and timing are required for optimal play and that has definitely been my experience. The general consensus is tur if you get good at ST, you can play any 2d fighter. I've seen lots of evidence to prove it as well.

The concepts apply but you don't get as many opportunities to see normals interacting with one another in ST as you would in SFV or even 3S partly due to the fireball game being much stronger and quick recovery of many useful normals. Light DP is also prevalent as a counterpoke in that game due to many other options not being realistic.

 

[stn]

ST is fantastic for fundamentals. Pick Cammy and go face anyone with a fireball. Her jump is so floaty and bad that you will have to rely exclusively on walking forward. Should teach you how to stay grounded very quickly.

You could theoretically use USF4 to learn footsies, which isn't too bad of an idea. Problem is that the focus attack allows you to absorb and move forward. People also got used to AA'ing with the focus attack - another not-so-good habit.

EDIT: You can use SF4 to practice your counter-hit and frame trap game.

 

[FindMyFarms]

Lots of people tell me that ST is great for fundamentals. For one, it's fast as shit, which increases your reaction time and makes things go easier. Another thing, it's a simple game so things like spacing and timing are required for optimal play and that has definitely been my experience. The general consensus is tur if you get good at ST, you can play any 2d fighter. I've seen lots of evidence to prove it as well.

For what it's worth, there's multiple threads about this on the net.

https://m.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/comments/3mqhfb/super_turbo_and_fundamentals/

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/176848/which-fighting-game-is-best-for-learning-the-basics

My experience tells me that the "ST IS fundamentals" line is 100% correct. Saying it only teaches fb zoning seems pretty wrong. If I would, I'd do it with A2 but it's not as popular as ST on Fightcade.

And no more SFIV!

You're more than welcome to take whatever advice you please lol. But the "st is a good/fundamental game" is very much a misconception amongst primarily the casual crowd. A LOT of the games top players will tell you it's dumb, and as many people will tell you it's bad that were active during it's lifespan. I can go into details, but they won't be conducive to this thread. What I CAN tell you is that getting good in ST will NOT help you out in sf5.

From the throw mash, throw spacing, relatively safe invincible moves, special spam, to the approach to whiff punishing (your primary whiff punish is walk up throw) they're just too different.

Also whether or not you agree, the other points are still massively relevant, try not to cherry pick. If you got questions feel free to fire away!

 

[Vice]

Lots of people tell me that ST is great for fundamentals. For one, it's fast as shit, which increases your reaction time and makes things go easier. Another thing, it's a simple game so things like spacing and timing are required for optimal play and that has definitely been my experience. The general consensus is tur if you get good at ST, you can play any 2d fighter. I've seen lots of evidence to prove it as well.

For what it's worth, there's multiple threads about this on the net.

https://m.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/comments/3mqhfb/super_turbo_and_fundamentals/

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/176848/which-fighting-game-is-best-for-learning-the-basics

My experience tells me that the "ST IS fundamentals" line is 100% correct. Saying it only teaches fb zoning seems pretty wrong. If I would, I'd do it with A2 but it's not as popular as ST on Fightcade.

And no more SFIV!

A lot of the ST fundamental praise is because it's one of the oldest games still played. You can learn great fundamentals in everythingg from ST to MvC2 to SFIV to KoF. Fundamentals are always required to do well in a fighting game - whether it has focus, parries or teleports the more fundamentally sound player will almost always win unless there's only a miniscule gap between players.

 

[FindMyFarms]

A lot of the ST fundamental praise is because it's one of the oldest games still played. You can learn great fundamentals in everythingg from ST to MvC2 to SFIV to KoF. Fundamentals are always required to do well in a fighting game - whether it has focus, parries or teleports the more fundamentally sound player will almost always win unless there's only a miniscule gap between players.

It just has a passionate, extremely niche crowd. It was never really popular to begin with. The fundamentals you can learn in that game are present in many other games. Unfortunately the advanced meta is pretty terrible in that game. And the throw mash encourages a lot of bad habits.

Anyhows let's not derail the thread into an "is st good" thread. I simply suggested that learning ST wouldn't transfer much of a skillset over due to the pacing and nuances.

 

[jon bones]

if i could i'd be playing an Alpha 2 cab in the run up to SFV

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I never claimed you can't learn fundamentals from any fighter. But I have a week till SFV comes out and I'm working on my weaknesses. I'm not touching IV with a ten foot pole. IV has too many variables and mechanics that obscure the need for footsies. I'm done with that game.

Also, I'm finding Domination 101 useful for general thought process that goes in the head of higher level players. His Domination 101 article was half CvS2, it wasn't "ST focused" at all. And in general, the entire point of the article was about changing player mindset. It showed that I'm doing some things right and some things wrong.

I really don't care about anyone's opinion on ST. All I care about is playing speed chess, working on my weaknesses - getting thrown, and anti-air - so I can finally have a basic mastery of the basic layer of the games.

The concepts apply but you don't get as many opportunities to see normals interacting with one another in ST as you would in SFV or even 3S partly due to the fireball game being much stronger and quick recovery of many useful normals. Light DP is also prevalent as a counterpoke in that game due to many other options not being realistic.

This is false and entirely match up dependent. I play Chun Li. Why the fuck would I be relying on a fb due to charge? None of what you say is true when you're fighting a Claw that has taken to the air, and learning how to deal with fireball characters as Chun or a non-fb character is something I need to work on. In any case, footsies and spacing is more than using normals.

 

[Prototype-03]

I never claimed you can't learn fundamentals from any fighter. But I have a week till SFV comes out and I'm working on my weaknesses. I'm not touching IV with a ten foot pole. IV has too many variables and mechanics that obscure the need for footsies. I'm done with that game.

Also, I'm finding Domination 101 useful for general thought process that goes in the head of higher level players. His Domination 101 article was half CvS2, it wasn't "ST focused" at all. And in general, the entire point of the article was about changing player mindset. It showed that I'm doing some things right and some things wrong.

I really don't care about anyone's opinion on ST. All I care about is playing speed chess, working on my weaknesses - getting thrown, and anti-air - so I can finally have a basic mastery of the basic layer of the games.



This is false and entirely match up dependent. I play Chun Li. Why the fuck would I be relying on a fb due to charge? None of what you say is true when you're fighting a Claw that has taken to the air, and learning how to deal with fireball characters as Chun or a non-fb character is something I need to work on. In any case, footsies and spacing is more than using normals.

Just out of curiosity, what are your weaknesses? Also, what's a more basic game then SF4? Because I can tell you that SF5 isn't going to be more basic than ST.

And charge has nothing to do if your fireball sucks. For example, Guile is a charge character and relies on his sonic boom a lot. There are buffering techniques that can "shorten" the charge time.

edit: You are right about being match up dependent on a lot of characters. But that's just FG in general. Everything is match ups.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Just out of curiosity, what are your weaknesses? Also, what's a more basic game then SF4? Because I can tell you that SF5 isn't going to be more basic than ST.

And charge has nothing to do if your fireball sucks. For example, Guile is a charge character and relies on his sonic boom a lot. There are buffering techniques that can "shorten" the charge time.

edit: You are right about being match up dependent on a lot of characters. But that's just FG in general. Everything is match ups.

Anti-airing is my biggest weakness.

SF4 is not a basic game. It has layers upon layers of mechanics, focus, OS's, invincibility backdash, all of this shit you need to account for that I don't need to work on right now before V drops given that V - so far - doesn't have any of that bullshit either.

I never said anything about charge being related to fb sucking, but Chun Li is Chun Li, and while kikoken is great for spacing, her main asset has and always will be her normals. The argument was "ST is bad for fundamentals it only teaches fb zoning" while I play Chun Li, who cannot exactly rely on an fb.

I never realized that saying you're going to grind ST would have so many people trying to tell you not to. Jesus Christ.

 

[FindMyFarms]

Well you asked for advice and i gave it lol. If you got any more questions fire away.

Ps sol is not wrong.

 

[Prototype-03]

Anti-airing is my biggest weakness.

SF4 is not a basic game. It has layers upon layers of mechanics, focus, OS's, invincibility backdash, all of this shit you need to account for that I don't need to work on right now before V drops given that V - so far - doesn't have any of that bullshit either.

I never said anything about charge being related to fb sucking, but Chun Li is Chun Li, and while kikoken is great for spacing, her main asset has and always will be her normals. The argument was "ST is bad for fundamentals it only teaches fb zoning" while I play Chun Li, who cannot exactly rely on an fb.

I never realized that saying you're going to grind ST would have so many people trying to tell you not to. Jesus Christ.

You can do whatever you want. But is ST the game you want to keep playing? Or is it just for "basics" only? You can learn basics in Smash, GG, BB, Marvel, Skullgirls, MKX, etc. From what I hear SF5 has input eating V-Triggers. Backdash will also have invulnerability. They have counter assaults. You're still going to learn that system.

Honestly, you will never truly be ready to make that transition easily. I had issues going from SF4 to BB to MvC3 to GG, etc. Every game has its own system that you'll just have to learn. I was getting beat down until I invested enough time and one day I said "hey, I get it now."

Read a bit on this: http://shoryuken.com/2013/07/23/so-you-want-to-learn-to-play-a-fighting-game/

It has a pretty good foundation on how to start.

The important part from that article: That said, if you have a game you really want to learn that’s not Street Fighter, go play that instead! Each person starts their journey into fighting games in a different way.

Anti Air shouldn't be too huge of an issue for Chun Li. Huge tip: if you can't react on time, BLOCK. Do not try to beat it if you know you're late.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

It's only a week.

Why are you sending me stuff I already read? I made this thread. I read that six months ago. I have it linked in my resources thing.

Who said anything about not learning SFV's system? With a week left I want to concentrate on the most simplest game as possible.

A good foundation on how to start? Have you been reading this thread, at all?

 

[Prototype-03]

It's only a week.

Why are you sending me stuff I already read? I made this thread. I read that six months ago. I have it linked in my resources thing.

Who said anything about not learning SFV's system? With a week left I want to concentrate on the most simplest game as possible.

A good foundation on how to start? Have you been reading this thread, at all?

That's my mistake, I have not. I was just trying to help. Good luck regardless.

 

[QisTopTier]

It just has a passionate, extremely niche crowd. It was never really popular to begin with. The fundamentals you can learn in that game are present in many other games. Unfortunately the advanced meta is pretty terrible in that game. And the throw mash encourages a lot of bad habits.

Anyhows let's not derail the thread into an "is st good" thread. I simply suggested that learning ST wouldn't transfer much of a skillset over due to the pacing and nuances.

^ This 100% not to mention if you are using Chun in ST she's wack as hell in that version in the sense almost NOTHING will carry over with how she is in that game even on a basic level outside of learning how to do charges.

It's like saying I want to learn Dhalsim for SF5 so I'm going to play some ST to prep. It just doesn't transition properly and you are gonna be going back to the beginning regardless. Now if you are using Ryu or Guile that's different but even then it barely transfers.

Plenty of people in this thread are giving you proper advice and you are blowing it off giving a " I want help but don't want to listen to the help offered" attitude.

I have no idea how four button pad players consistently hit focus (mp+mk) or V skill (mp+mk).
.

Like that

 

[BumblebeeCody]

With regards to frame data and just training mode, doa5 is simply the best. It and skull girl's take in training mode should be standard.

Killer Instinct is pretty good with this. It let's you play with hitboxes on.

Me reading through this thread:

I thought this was supposed to be for scrubs/noobs like me who just want to start getting into fighting games.... what's with all these difficult terms and whatnot? Did I miss a FAQ about them or something? Or am I just too far gone that I can't even understand half of the stuff that you guys are talking about?

Just ask and people will explain.

That's if you use a four button pad. On a six button pad I have zero reason to use a shoulder button.

Reasons SFV is more pad friendly than SFIV:

- No stupid 1 frame links
- No mash specials. Chun's legs are directional input now. So no need to plink or pre load a kick.
- There are no Ultras, only Critical Arts/Supers. Supers use only button, whereas Ultras required three, which requires either a shortcut macro or hitting all buttons at the same time (almost impossible with a four button pad). Having CA's require only one button simplifies things greatly.
- No FADC, meaning no more FADC combos.

That's on a six button pad.

Four button pads are different aren't optimal for Street Fighter IMO, being a six button game. I have no idea how four button pad players consistently hit focus (mp+mk) or V skill (mp+mk). It was hard for me to do on a dualshock 3. Four button pad will always have a sort of handicap on SF and other six button games, but a six button pad on SFV? Shit is pristine.

You should buy a six button pad play piano style going by your post if you find R1/R2 for HP/HK uncomfortable.

Played SF2 at a friends house on Sega Megadrive. Oh man, I love the idea of pressing select to switch the buttons from punches to kicks.

1 frame links are pad unfriendly though since they are based on button timings. I can do 1 frame links fine on both pad and stick, but doing motions on a pad is hard.

So for dudes and dudettes in the working world, how often do you train?

And how much is that spend trolling sites--Shoryuken, Smash Boards, YT, Twitch to learn the metagame?

As often as possible. Once you get good at one Street Fighter/Tekken/Smash you're pretty much set for the rest. Learning one game lays your personal foundation out for the rest of them. In terms of training, as much as possible but since I haven't played as much, probably not much anymore. I usually just jump right in and play. It used to be 5 hours...now I don't bother.

 

[Vice]

Anti-airing is my biggest weakness.

SF4 is not a basic game. It has layers upon layers of mechanics, focus, OS's, invincibility backdash, all of this shit you need to account for that I don't need to work on right now before V drops given that V - so far - doesn't have any of that bullshit either.

I never said anything about charge being related to fb sucking, but Chun Li is Chun Li, and while kikoken is great for spacing, her main asset has and always will be her normals. The argument was "ST is bad for fundamentals it only teaches fb zoning" while I play Chun Li, who cannot exactly rely on an fb.

I never realized that saying you're going to grind ST would have so many people trying to tell you not to. Jesus Christ.

It's just that you seem to be ignoring games that are much more mechanically, and pace, simillar to V for ST. It's a weird, random and filled with tech. The basics you're working on can be gained in IV/3 in a setting where the rest of the mechanics(stun,throws, meter management, button priority, armor, gimmicky supers/ultras, etc.) will better prep you for V.

 

[fader]

Anti-airing is my biggest weakness.

SF4 is not a basic game. It has layers upon layers of mechanics, focus, OS's, invincibility backdash, all of this shit you need to account for that I don't need to work on right now before V drops given that V - so far - doesn't have any of that bullshit either.

I never said anything about charge being related to fb sucking, but Chun Li is Chun Li, and while kikoken is great for spacing, her main asset has and always will be her normals. The argument was "ST is bad for fundamentals it only teaches fb zoning" while I play Chun Li, who cannot exactly rely on an fb.

I never realized that saying you're going to grind ST would have so many people trying to tell you not to. Jesus Christ.

I can't speak for other people but the thing is yes ST is a very fundamental heavy game and you will learn fundamentals from it. BUT. You have to learn every single aspect of that game in order for fundamentals to make sense. There are better games to grind so that fundamentals will be apparent as soon as you press start but I wont stop you from playing ST...

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

^ This 100% not to mention if you are using Chun in ST she's wack as hell in that version in the sense almost NOTHING will carry over with how she is in that game even on a basic level outside of learning how to do charges.

It's like saying I want to learn Dhalsim for SF5 so I'm going to play some ST to prep. It just doesn't transition properly and you are gonna be going back to the beginning regardless. Now if you are using Ryu or Guile that's different.

Plenty of people in this thread are giving you proper advice and you are blowing it off giving a " I want help but don't want to listen to the help offered" attitude.

Whether or not SFV Chun plays differently than ST Chun doesn't really matter to me. SFIV Chun plays completely different than SFV Chun as well. By your own logic, there's very little point in me playing SFIV as well because they play so differently and Chun has completely different tools. My point isn't even to learn Chun. It's to learn fundamentals.

If it seems I'm being dismissive, it's only because people are making large assumptions. Because I say throw teching is a weakness it doesn't mean I'm using ST as a ways to mitigate that. ST doesn't even have a traditional modern throw teching mechanic, you only have throw escapes. No, what I'm concentrating on is not getting thrown to begin with by spacing myself and trying to find ways from people entering my space. ST is great at teaching the things I'm concentrating on. Why ST? Because it's fast as fuck and a round can last 10 seconds if I make the wrong move. These wrong moves usually come out much slower in SFIV for instance, and my time is valuable. So I get more mileage out of ST right now because it's simpler and faster. That's all. I'm not worrying about rush down or making opportunities for combos. When I asked that, I asked with the context of SFV. ST isn't even a combo heavy game, not like IV. It's something for me to work on in the future. That's all. I'm concentrating on very, very small slice of fundamentals at a rapid rate.

I also do not appreciate people who have not read my thread offering links about basics that I've already linked as if I am a completely new player.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

It's just that you seem to be ignoring games that are much more mechanically, and pace, simillar to V for ST. It's a weird, random and filled with tech. The basics you're working on can be gained in IV/3 in a setting where the rest of the mechanics(stun,throws, meter management, button priority, armor, gimmicky supers/ultras, etc.) will better prep you for V.

I've played IV for over 200 hours and I'm sick of it. I have not "ignored" SFIV. If there's one thing that's annoying me, it's people who haven't really been posting in my thread suddenly coming to tell me to play IV, or learn the basics, as if I have done neither. All of those things you listed (stun, throws, meter management, button priority, armor, gimmicky supers/ultras) are well and good, but I'm not working on them now. As I said above, I am not working on everything at once. I'm working on a very limited thing right now. And let's not act like SFIV's button priority will help with preparing for SFV. 3S would be better for that, but guess what, I don't like 3S. I do however, like ST. If it were up to me, I'd grind Alpha 2 instead. But guess what, no one plays Alpha 2.

Saying IV is paced similarly to V is a total head scratcher. I'm done with that game.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Also it's interesting how you guys keep saying ST has no overlap with SFV when old school players like Graham Wolfe who cut their teeth on ST are doing very, very well in V.

But you tell me to grind IV instead of ST.

That math doesn't add up.

 

[Prototype-03]

Whether or not SFV Chun plays differently than ST Chun doesn't really matter to me. SFIV Chun plays completely different than SFV Chun as well. By your own logic, there's very little point in me playing SFIV as well because they play so differently and Chun has completely different tools. My point isn't even to learn Chun. It's to learn fundamentals.

If it seems I'm being dismissive, it's only because people are making large assumptions. Because I say throw teching is a weakness it doesn't mean I'm using ST as a ways to mitigate that. ST doesn't even have a traditional modern throw teching mechanic, you only have throw escapes. No, what I'm concentrating on is not getting thrown to begin with by spacing myself and trying to find ways from people entering my space. ST is great at teaching the things I'm concentrating on. Why ST? Because it's fast as fuck and a round can last 10 seconds if I make the wrong move. These wrong moves usually come out much slower in SFIV for instance, and my time is valuable. So I get more mileage out of ST right now because it's simpler and faster. That's all. I'm not worrying about rush down or making opportunities for combos. When I asked that, I asked with the context of SFV. ST isn't even a combo heavy game, not like IV. It's something for me to work on in the future. That's all. I'm concentrating on very, very small slice of fundamentals at a rapid rate.

I also do not appreciate people who have not read my thread offering links about basics that I've already linked as if I am a completely new player.

On the flip side, you could have said "thanks for the link, but I've already read it." This just makes me not want to help because you're so condescending.

Also, I'm not reading through 23 pages worth of information.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Also it's interesting how you guys keep saying ST has no overlap with SFV when old school players like Graham Wolfe who cut their teeth on ST are doing very, very well in V.

But you tell me to grind IV instead of ST.

One person doesn't make that point valid though.

I can't speak for other people but the thing is yes ST is a very fundamental heavy game and you will learn fundamentals from it. BUT. You have to learn every single aspect of that game in order for fundamentals to make sense. There are better games to grind so that fundamentals will be apparent as soon as you press start but I wont stop you from playing ST...

True. ST is a good starting point ....but then that applies to most SF games.