anything over 3f is still a trap yes, because as you said it's about stealing a turn. +3 is a frame trap, so is +1 and +50
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The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
- Start date
I think we might be talking past each other here, I apologize.
I'm referring to how many frames of neutral the opponent gets. Because that is the point of a frame trap, no? Give the opponent enough time to stop blocking, but not enough time to do anything useful. And if a jab is three frames, the that's the upper limit for "something useful". I mean, sure, a Shoryuken might beat a frame trap, but learning that the opponent knows that, or is just spamming it to escape, is also useful, and worth taking a fist to the face to learn.
i feel like you're restricting your understanding of the term to how its applied in one game, remember that frames are relative, if you are at +3 your opponent is at -3. the whole point of frame traps is to fish for counterhits by making your opponent think they have frame advantage when they do not. imagine you are at +50 and you and your opponent both push a button. imagine your move is super slow, 50f slower than your opponent's, but due to your frame advantage the two attacks become active on the same frame, different games handle this situation in different ways but ib the very least you'll trade, and presumably this slow ass move is great hence its long startup, so the trade is in your favor. super long winded explanation but that's the utility of a frame trap. whatever rhetorical move left you +50 on block gets you the frame trap.
Okay that makes more sense now. I thought a frame trap was a special kind of combo that left a gap for the opponent to mess up, but it's actually a broader concept than that.
If i understand you right, it's just the concept of "If you have a frame advantage, you can use slower moves and still get there first", which, well, is pretty obvious when you think about it. But when the opponent sees a slow move, they might think they can intercept for a counterhit. But they can't, because it's still my turn.
And I have to respect the same thing when it's coming at me. Let the blockstring with convenient gaps in it finish, then try something. But let the opponent finish. Don't give a free counterhit.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
If you don't understand frame data yet don't worry about it. But a frame trap is when an opponent or you set up a combination of moves, that, when using frame data gives you an advantage. In SFV this is important because the game has a move priority system in that if you try hit out of the combination you will be hit by the trap. The trick is to wait for the combination to finish and just keep blocking or wait for a gap in their offense dash away or hit them with a fast move.
An example from SFV with my main, Chun Li is cr LP, st MP, forward+MP. It's a basic block string and combo. A jab is +2 on block, and a st MP starts in 5 frames. This a three frame gap, subtracting between the two. So if my opponent hits a jab - the fastest move, that's usually say, 3 frames - right after I hit my jab, despite the fact that my next move - st MP - is longer in terms of frames, it'll stuff his jab due to move priority. Stealing his or her turn and allowing me to continue my onslaught.
If you have fought someone who combos you relentlessly and you can't hit out of it, more than likely you were being frame trapped.
in most situations a move is disadvantageous on block, this refers to time - how long until my opponent can move versus how long until i can move.
what it means for most moves to be disadvantageous on block is that in most situations, the player who blocks an attack gets to move before the player who executed that attack.
lets say both me and my opponent use an attack that takes one second (60f) to hit. we push the button at the same time, both moves hit at the same time, both players take damage. this is a trade.
now, lets imagine i hit the same button a half second (30f) earlier than my opponent. this time, my move is finished winding up while my opponent's is only halfway through its startup. my attack wins. because it hit my opponent during the startup of their attack, its a counterhit which means it does more damage (and usually other cool stuff, game-dependent) than if i just hit my opponent with that attack when they weren't blocking.
now, backing up to what i said about most moves being disadvantageous on block. this means that in most instances, if you block an attack in a fighting game and both you and your opponent use your fastest move at the same time, yours will win because you have frame advantage for blocking an attack.
however, some attacks are advantageous on block. this means that the player who blocks the attack has to wait longer than his opponent to attack. this is out of the ordinary. its a trick to make people attack when they shouldnt, making them succeptable to getting counter hit.
that situation is a frame trap
Cindi Mayweather
Member
If you still don't understand, don't worry about it. Just know the basics of frames: each move has a start, active, and recovery. Like when you throw a punch, there's the start of the punch when you're winding it up, and then the actual punch, and the final part when you pull it back to your side. Worry about that and limit yourself using the slowest moves because you'll get hit. When you internalize this, then learn how to read frame data. Longer still, come here and we'll teach you how to frame trap.
Take it one step at a time. I just learned how to frame trap myself. A fighter isn't built in a day.
Take it one step at a time. I just learned how to frame trap myself. A fighter isn't built in a day.
Leafhopper
Banned
I wouldn't call myself a scrub but, I need some pointers on holding a stick again. Since I haven't used one in awhile. Mainly because I got another one that I can use on PC and I suffer from trying to do fast movement, like in Blazblue with air dashes and such. I used to have movement down but, it seems that is gone since I went back to pad for a few years.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
What grip did you use? Maybe you got acquainted to pad and just need practice on stick?
Leafhopper
Banned
Yeah I have to more or less get back into the swing of things. I think the one I used was the one similar to holding a wine glass.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
I am new to fighting games and sticks.. so I feel your pain. I like Gootech's example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXP0kc9Sry8
There are multiple styles and advice. Pick one that feels the most comfortable to you and stick with it. I would say consistency and developing muscle memory will be better than constantly swapping your grip around.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This is my grip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW0D_KuIIsI
I tried other grips but this one just felt right the second I did it.
For those who don't know Japanese, here's Kotaku's accompanying text to the video.
http://kotaku.com/5626160/let-the-beast-show-you-how-to-hold-your-stick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW0D_KuIIsI
I tried other grips but this one just felt right the second I did it.
For those who don't know Japanese, here's Kotaku's accompanying text to the video.
http://kotaku.com/5626160/let-the-beast-show-you-how-to-hold-your-stick
HundredEyeMonk
Member
lol that pointer stick he pulls out is awesome.
He is super quick with that left hand/wrist. Super impressive.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
Don't worry. I'm new too. All of the frame trapping stuff to me looks like a foreign language.
Re: frame trapping etc
OK so I was mucking about in practice this morning with what you lot had said to me in mind.
Still very early days for me so I'm still trying to string together a couple of decent combos and seeing what works together.
Anyway, so I stumble across a 4 hitter wtih Ryu: jumping mk, standing mp, m DP. Now there seems to be a long pause between the last two moves - almost seems like the combo's over, but it isn't.
If my opponent is blocking the first 2 hits and then tries to hit me before the DP begins, would this constitute a 'frame trap'?
OK so I was mucking about in practice this morning with what you lot had said to me in mind.
Still very early days for me so I'm still trying to string together a couple of decent combos and seeing what works together.
Anyway, so I stumble across a 4 hitter wtih Ryu: jumping mk, standing mp, m DP. Now there seems to be a long pause between the last two moves - almost seems like the combo's over, but it isn't.
If my opponent is blocking the first 2 hits and then tries to hit me before the DP begins, would this constitute a 'frame trap'?
Yeah, it's neat to know, but I think what a newbie player can take from this frame trapping thing is this:Don't worry. I'm new too. All of the frame trapping stuff to me looks like a foreign language.
"Are you getting hit when trying to attack someone after blocking? You're being set up. Stop trying to hit him, it's what he wants you to. Keep blocking and wait."
I mean, I'm sure there are more responses you could do, like invincible moves and such, but for a new player it's better to just know this is a thing that can happen and keep your head cool when it does.
not really, because you're canceling the recovery frames of MP with the DP. MP is -3 on guard, frame traps are when you fish for counterhits using moves that are + on guard, and typically you are using low risk normals like cr MP and not something big like a DP. what youre describing sounds more like a block string: a combo on hit which is uninterruptable on guard.
far cr MP can be used for a frame trap as it is +2 on guard. since cr LK has a 4f startup, it will beat out opponents trying to jab after blocking cr MP.
With the imminent release of SFV and for those who have never played a fighting game or street fighter seriously. This is the video that helped me get started when I decided to get into it in June. It's on USF4 but the basics CAN be applied in SFV. This 15 minute video WILL get you to stop MASHING and actually enjoy more clean games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5xs1lkcMlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5xs1lkcMlI
Thanks! I was gonna post here to look for resources as an absolute beginner. I hope there are many like me jumping in at launch online, because I am no theory-crafter, rather learn by actually playing. I have a background as a Smasher, never played an actual classic fighting game. I understand concepts such as combos, anti air, pressure and I realize being cornered is bad as you have less options (but I don't even know which options there are in the first place) etc. I have ordered a pad that's coming, but I'm gonna be playing with a DS4 until it arrives. I just hope I will win one match of my first 50.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I've been gathering resources but my internet connection is out, and I'm not doing it on my phone.
HundredEyeMonk
Member
So we are less than 12 hours away from SFV being out everywhere.
1) How does one pick a "main"? I am absolutely the type of person to pick one character to really try to master. Is the general consensus pick Ryu/Ken and use them to learn the basics, and then find a character you like?
2)How does one practice? I see "you just need to practice" but I'm not sure what I should be practicing. Beyond the "do 50 hadoukens left, then 50 right" etc to get the muscle memory down to perform mechanics.. how do you actually practice? Just go online and lose a lot until you start winning? I feel like there is a way you get the most bang for your buck regarding time. Some kind of training/practice regiment i.e, Do you spend time warming up in training working on combos, go play a few matches, review/critique those, practice what you learned in the training, go online and adjust, rinse, repeat. etc.
1) How does one pick a "main"? I am absolutely the type of person to pick one character to really try to master. Is the general consensus pick Ryu/Ken and use them to learn the basics, and then find a character you like?
2)How does one practice? I see "you just need to practice" but I'm not sure what I should be practicing. Beyond the "do 50 hadoukens left, then 50 right" etc to get the muscle memory down to perform mechanics.. how do you actually practice? Just go online and lose a lot until you start winning? I feel like there is a way you get the most bang for your buck regarding time. Some kind of training/practice regiment i.e, Do you spend time warming up in training working on combos, go play a few matches, review/critique those, practice what you learned in the training, go online and adjust, rinse, repeat. etc.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
1. That's the general advice I've seen from most experts.
2. Do that. But also record you matches and watch some losses so you start seeing what you're having trouble with. Then work on that in training. For example, if you're having trouble dealing with one characters special move, pick that character for the dummy, record that move and then put it on playback so the dummy just does it over and over and you can practice different things to counter it.
Admiral Snackbar
Member
This was awesome, thank you!
Camp1nCarl
Member
Just don't let the loses get to you. I know in the 3rd beta I went on a solid 1-55 streak before I started finding my groove (granted training really wasn't available). I know what has helped me was watching other high level players as well as just getting out there and getting my ass kicked.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
From the OP:
Picking Ryu doesn't necessarily mean anything. There's a lot of "beginner" friendly characters. Nash is probably more beginner friendly than either this go around. Here's the thing though. Ryu isn't necessarily beginner friendly. Everyone knows how to fight against him. They suggest using Ryu because he's the basic template and has all the tools he needs to see success. Not all people LIKE playing as Ryu or Ken. Experiment and see what works for you when starting out.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Street Fighter V Resources
Beginners
Street Fighter for Complete Beginners
Concepts Every 2D Fighting Game Player Should Know
A Little Bit About Zoning
2d Fighter Tutorial Part II: Knockdown and Wakeup
Full System Breakdown, Everything You Need To Know For SFV
When SALT Strikes: 10 Detailed Tips How To Get Better at Fighting Games!
Maximillian Dood's You Must Lose To Win
Intermediate/Advanced
Footsies Handbook
DevilJin's SFV Breakdown
Bafael's New Mechanics Overview
Light Normals in Street Fighter V
Crush Counter Punishes
If you're a beginner I highly suggest looking up your character's move lists, basic combos, and strategies when you get the game. Over the next few weeks we will be getting tons of media and strategies. Stick around for them!
Beginners
Street Fighter for Complete Beginners
Concepts Every 2D Fighting Game Player Should Know
A Little Bit About Zoning
2d Fighter Tutorial Part II: Knockdown and Wakeup
Full System Breakdown, Everything You Need To Know For SFV
When SALT Strikes: 10 Detailed Tips How To Get Better at Fighting Games!
Maximillian Dood's You Must Lose To Win
Intermediate/Advanced
Footsies Handbook
DevilJin's SFV Breakdown
Bafael's New Mechanics Overview
Light Normals in Street Fighter V
Crush Counter Punishes
If you're a beginner I highly suggest looking up your character's move lists, basic combos, and strategies when you get the game. Over the next few weeks we will be getting tons of media and strategies. Stick around for them!
HundredEyeMonk
Member
Thanks for all of the quality posts
Just curious, what characters is everyone leaning towards to playing the most?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Thanks for all of the quality posts
Just curious, what characters is everyone leaning towards to playing the most?
Chun Li.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I want to make a post about mentality and staying focused. We all get down. We all get salty. We all get frustrated. Sometimes our progress is just not where we want to be and we wish we were better. We're frustrated we haven't nailed something we should have. I've compiled a list of videos to watch for when this happens, and it's going to happen. But we must stay course.
Playing To Win - David Sirlin's guide to overcoming scrub mentality of blaming others for your faults and achieving a better mindset and approach to how you play.
Getting Sad at Fighting Games - Jiyunajp's amazing video on how to not get sad after losses and feel discouraged. Use it as a learning experience.
You Must Lose To Win - Maximillian Dood's amazing video on adapting, and using losses to learn.
Fighting Games Are Not Easy - Maximillian Dood's Real Talk video on reminding people that fighting games are hard as fuck. Always remember this.
I'd love to compile resources on how to overcome the pain of losses and how we use it as a learning tool rather than being discouraged. One thing I can tell you is when feeling discouraged, rewatch old replays and compare them to your current ones. I quote this post I made earlier in this thread:
Playing To Win - David Sirlin's guide to overcoming scrub mentality of blaming others for your faults and achieving a better mindset and approach to how you play.
Getting Sad at Fighting Games - Jiyunajp's amazing video on how to not get sad after losses and feel discouraged. Use it as a learning experience.
You Must Lose To Win - Maximillian Dood's amazing video on adapting, and using losses to learn.
Fighting Games Are Not Easy - Maximillian Dood's Real Talk video on reminding people that fighting games are hard as fuck. Always remember this.
I'd love to compile resources on how to overcome the pain of losses and how we use it as a learning tool rather than being discouraged. One thing I can tell you is when feeling discouraged, rewatch old replays and compare them to your current ones. I quote this post I made earlier in this thread:
Okay, before we all move on to Street Fighter V, here's a Tekken match analysis video where I analyze two sets of matches: one where I win, the other where I lose. It's pretty off the cuff, I had some notes but there was a lot of situations I didn't have notes on that I only noticed during recoring.
Anyway, I'll likely do more analysis like this for SF5 and I already have some video ideas in the pipeline I feel like I should do before the week is over.
Anyway, I'll likely do more analysis like this for SF5 and I already have some video ideas in the pipeline I feel like I should do before the week is over.
Mediking
Member
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I can't find current SFV frame data?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I'd like it on a website so I can add it to resources. But thanks, I should list it anyways because it's immaculate.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
This might not really help you too much since I don't know your background with fighting games, but here goes:
the way I decide on a main is fairly straight-forward. I've never been a wiz at executing combos or applying pressure through meticulous block strings / frame traps, and more than anything I've always been more interested in the mind games that go into your average match once I really delved into the genre. Reading an opponent's habits, figuring out how to adapt to a character's / player's strengths and subsequently punish to the extent of stifling their own approach, keeping the enemy at bay with whatever tools are at my disposal et cetera. In Street Fighter, Dhalsim has been my go-to pick since the SF II days: low barrier of entry compared to others with regards to the amount of dexterity required to be proficient with him, albeit with a caveat that he's very demanding in knowing how to handle match-ups and how to apply his (in relative terms) atypical gameplan given his higher-than-average reach and glaring weaknesses, intended by design.
So the way this extends to Street Fighter V is: what category do your general preferences belong in? Do you like the jack-of-all trades ideology, with answers for every situation? There's Ryu. Do you like to flex the combos you've learned the more time you spend with the game? Nash comes to mind. Do you prefer mix-ups and fast-paced shenanigans? Rashid. Slow and lumbering heavy-hitters up your alley, with the largest health pools to balance their style out? Zangief or Birdie, the latter more suitable for intermediate or new players. There's more parallels you can draw and some are admittedly a hybrid of multiple niches, but on the surface making these kind of (admittedly skin-deep) comparisons decreases the 'challenge' of figuring out character compatibility.
Of course you don't necessarily have to go that far: occasionally in other fighting games I just happened to like the look of x / y character or thought a certain gimmick was genuinely cool, and that in itself made me plenty determined to learn the ropes. Briefly dicking around with all characters in training mode and testing the waters in whose buttons / attacks feel natural to you works too.
With Street Fighter V out, it's time for me to take Karin to the Training Room and start getting some thing things I was weak against in Beta nailed down. I think I have three objectives, but I don't expect them to be perfect before going online.
1. Find Karin's anti-airs. I can't afford to think, seeing the opponent jump at me has to be an instant reaction.
2. "Instant Tenko". qcf+LK, LP. Do it until Karin doesn't move, but uppercuts in place.
3. cr. MP, st. MP, Instant Tenko. The bread and butter of Karin. If the MPs are blocked, cancel the input, or hold down to do the much safer on block shoulder tackle.
I don't expect to get 2 or 3 completely down, and it does leave out the issue of getting that first cr. MP to hit, but I need to learn that this is a thing for later.
After that it's Survival Mode to unlock the colors (sigh), and then online to victory/defeat, but definitely to learning.
1. Find Karin's anti-airs. I can't afford to think, seeing the opponent jump at me has to be an instant reaction.
2. "Instant Tenko". qcf+LK, LP. Do it until Karin doesn't move, but uppercuts in place.
3. cr. MP, st. MP, Instant Tenko. The bread and butter of Karin. If the MPs are blocked, cancel the input, or hold down to do the much safer on block shoulder tackle.
I don't expect to get 2 or 3 completely down, and it does leave out the issue of getting that first cr. MP to hit, but I need to learn that this is a thing for later.
After that it's Survival Mode to unlock the colors (sigh), and then online to victory/defeat, but definitely to learning.
Aw, take all the fun of discovery out of it, why don't you? Seriously, though, I wouldn't have guessed st. LP. That just seems like such an insulting anti-air. Like waving away an annoying fly. I still have to try them out to see what works when, and which one should be my go-to for when I'm in doubt. Cr.HP might be it. I played Sakura in SF4, so the muscle memory for that one should still be there.
Re: Picking a main - Some common strategies
The Visual Test:
Pick the character you think looks the coolest to you and start practicing their stuff in training mode. If you're feeling 'em, you're good to go. If not, move on to the next coolest.
The Playstyle Test:
Usually players prefer one kind of playstyle over another. ie: High vitality grappler style characters vs. projectile heavy characters vs. mixup/trap heavy characters vs. pressure/vortex characters. In this case, your criteria would be picking a character that's closest to your preferred playstyle over anything else.
The 'Babby's first main':
You want to pick the easiest/most accessible character in the game and use them to learn how the game works. As you become aware in your rise in skill, you can move on and experiment with more challenging characters. Many people can't move past this stage either due to limitations in execution, or comfort issues, or the fact that Ryu's pretty fucking great in most of the games he's in.
The Sanford Kelly:
Pick a top tier. Usually good for people who only care about winning and don't care about anything else. Top tier characters are usually the ones that either:
a. Get the best matchups against most of the cast. ie: In a 10 match set between two players of equal skill, a 5-5 matchup means both characters are equally likely to win. Top tiers usually have 6-4 or 7-3 matchups against certain characters and 5-5 with others. They usually have few or none bad matchups. OR
b. Dish out a lot of damage or advantageous situations with relatively low risk.
Or both. Sanford Kelly's usually drop their characters when they become weaker as balance patches come out and switch to the new top tier.
The Low Tier Hero:
Think of this as the opposite of the Sanford Kelly. You actively want to avoid the top tiers. Maybe you want to do it because people discredit your wins by attributing your wins to your top tier character pick rather than your skill. Perhaps you want more challenge and the glory that comes with beating a top tier character with a low/mid tier one. Perhaps you like the character's mechanics (Offbeat/weird or setup heavy characters are usually low tier because of the unreliability that comes with playing them). Like the sanford kelly, if your character gets overbuffed to the point of Top Tier-ness, you'd want to drop them.
The Marlinpie:
You have the mechanics of a god, and not only do you want to win, but you wan't to look good doing it. Marlinpie's pick the most execution/combo/style heavy characters because sometimes the spectacle/hype is what's most important.
The Fuerte:
You don't care about wins or losses or looks or combos. You want to pick the character that YOU have the most fun with, losing or winning. Warning: Can sometimes come at the expense of the fun of other players.
The Loyalist:
You express your undying love for your favorite character by maining them in every game that comes out, despite any other criteria. Character loyalists at the highest level of play tend to be the among the best players of that particular character.
The Loyalist disease is especially common among Ryu/Ken players, esp at low levels.
The Counterpicker/Maining the whole game:
"I'd rather practice a 1000 kicks one time, than one kick a 1000 times" - The Counterpicker
Okay, the counterpicker is not that bad. In fact, it is what you will eventually become as you keep playing the game. The counterpicker realizes that sometimes it is better to be great at 2 vastly different characters, than a master at one. The more characters you learn, the less proficient you're going to be at any single one of them, at least in the early days. However, in exchange you can overcome one character's bad matchups by picking another one. Counterpicking is a very viable strategy and the best players in the world can play multiple characters at a very high level.
The Visual Test:
Pick the character you think looks the coolest to you and start practicing their stuff in training mode. If you're feeling 'em, you're good to go. If not, move on to the next coolest.
The Playstyle Test:
Usually players prefer one kind of playstyle over another. ie: High vitality grappler style characters vs. projectile heavy characters vs. mixup/trap heavy characters vs. pressure/vortex characters. In this case, your criteria would be picking a character that's closest to your preferred playstyle over anything else.
The 'Babby's first main':
You want to pick the easiest/most accessible character in the game and use them to learn how the game works. As you become aware in your rise in skill, you can move on and experiment with more challenging characters. Many people can't move past this stage either due to limitations in execution, or comfort issues, or the fact that Ryu's pretty fucking great in most of the games he's in.
The Sanford Kelly:
Pick a top tier. Usually good for people who only care about winning and don't care about anything else. Top tier characters are usually the ones that either:
a. Get the best matchups against most of the cast. ie: In a 10 match set between two players of equal skill, a 5-5 matchup means both characters are equally likely to win. Top tiers usually have 6-4 or 7-3 matchups against certain characters and 5-5 with others. They usually have few or none bad matchups. OR
b. Dish out a lot of damage or advantageous situations with relatively low risk.
Or both. Sanford Kelly's usually drop their characters when they become weaker as balance patches come out and switch to the new top tier.
The Low Tier Hero:
Think of this as the opposite of the Sanford Kelly. You actively want to avoid the top tiers. Maybe you want to do it because people discredit your wins by attributing your wins to your top tier character pick rather than your skill. Perhaps you want more challenge and the glory that comes with beating a top tier character with a low/mid tier one. Perhaps you like the character's mechanics (Offbeat/weird or setup heavy characters are usually low tier because of the unreliability that comes with playing them). Like the sanford kelly, if your character gets overbuffed to the point of Top Tier-ness, you'd want to drop them.
The Marlinpie:
You have the mechanics of a god, and not only do you want to win, but you wan't to look good doing it. Marlinpie's pick the most execution/combo/style heavy characters because sometimes the spectacle/hype is what's most important.
The Fuerte:
You don't care about wins or losses or looks or combos. You want to pick the character that YOU have the most fun with, losing or winning. Warning: Can sometimes come at the expense of the fun of other players.
The Loyalist:
You express your undying love for your favorite character by maining them in every game that comes out, despite any other criteria. Character loyalists at the highest level of play tend to be the among the best players of that particular character.
The Loyalist disease is especially common among Ryu/Ken players, esp at low levels.
The Counterpicker/Maining the whole game:
"I'd rather practice a 1000 kicks one time, than one kick a 1000 times" - The Counterpicker
Okay, the counterpicker is not that bad. In fact, it is what you will eventually become as you keep playing the game. The counterpicker realizes that sometimes it is better to be great at 2 vastly different characters, than a master at one. The more characters you learn, the less proficient you're going to be at any single one of them, at least in the early days. However, in exchange you can overcome one character's bad matchups by picking another one. Counterpicking is a very viable strategy and the best players in the world can play multiple characters at a very high level.
There's also vFrames that's available on Android but the Shoryuken wiki should have the complete frame data soon enough.
I feel for new people coming into the game because I've been playing for a while now and since can't decide on a main for SF5. I wanted to main Ken but after all those nerfs he's not that fun to play anymore. I've been hesitating between Mika, Dictator and Necalli. Mika looks to be a fun change of pace because I've never really played a command throw character for long but her stubby normal looks like a pain point in the neutral though. I don't know how I'll approach things without a fireball to chuck around. Hopefully video content for her will appear to help me form a game plan.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Posted a few posts above you in my SFV resource post.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EynGiN9it10MLvN_L88G9Eu-4nzjGxgMO9FIElG-pK4/mobilebasic?pli=1
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Bafael's YouTube channel.
hitsugi
Member
Karin's s.LP was a pretty godlike AA in the betas. Actually a lot of the cast can AA decently with s.LP now. Your best bets are s.LP and s.HP.. I'd only try c.HP in a really bad cross up attempt or something
Well, I took Karin to the Training Room, and I have room to grow. However, I found something purely by accident that I will likely add to my arsenal: Cr. MK xx Instant Tenko. Fun fact, SFV has Negative Edge. d+MK (hold), df, f (release), P. Done fast and it's a combo. Problem of course being if they block it and if I can abort before inputting the dash. Probably not. Still, I can graduate to cr. MP, st. MP xx Instant Tenko later. This works for me at my level. I just need something that's a little scary.
And I think I'll use qcf+MK as my reaction to close jumpins. It's not flashy, but it can actually be input rather late on a jumping Ryu doing MK at me, so... neat. But the next step should be losing some real matches, I think. I hope I end up in a Karin mirror against someone who's better at her than me. Save replay, turn on commands. LEARN.
After that, my next objective is reading the book "So you launched someone with Tenko, now what?" because everything I do misses. I'm probably inputting it way too late.
And I think I'll use qcf+MK as my reaction to close jumpins. It's not flashy, but it can actually be input rather late on a jumping Ryu doing MK at me, so... neat. But the next step should be losing some real matches, I think. I hope I end up in a Karin mirror against someone who's better at her than me. Save replay, turn on commands. LEARN.
After that, my next objective is reading the book "So you launched someone with Tenko, now what?" because everything I do misses. I'm probably inputting it way too late.
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