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[Anton Sugar]

This isn't some strange heel-turn, this is classic Activision.

It's cyclical. Anytime one of them has an upswing, the other has a down. EA is on the rise right now, so Activision has to pull out all the "horrible idea" stops in their stead.

 

[tuxfool]

It's cyclical. Anytime one of them has an upswing, the other has a down. EA is on the rise right now, so Activision has to pull out all the "horrible idea" stops in their stead.

Are they really? To me it looks to be the same old shit constantly, no cycles involved.

 

[Iorv3th]

So do you have to buy the expansion pack plus the red bull?

 

[BennyBlanco]

First thing I thought of.

 

[Lalalandia]

There's inherent differences in the model in that GW and GW2 allow players to buy cosmetics directly. Arena Net also didn't have to build to 4 different spec machines each with different strengths and weaknesses which don't allow the end user to adjust settings on their end to account for shortcomings, nor does Anet have to pass QC and pay money to those machines manufacturers anytime they patch to add or fix content.

Anet have it worse support wise by a country mile, 4 configs is a fiddle compared to the literally thousands of PC configurations a out there. Also Activision have their own patch system which is why every so often launching Destiny results in a slideshow of concept art.

The marketing strategies may be similar (not the same as Destiny has no cosmetic purchases with which to profit from) but the actual details that would help or hinder content creation and delivery are very different in addition to the fact that the very way the games are designed changes the amount of content that can reasonably be delivered at launch. If you're going to ignore that then where are the complaints that Tomb Raider, Uncharted, Halo, CoD, or even Tell Tale games don't offer the same amount of content as the average MMO does at launch?

Edit: And if you finished all the HoW content in only 2 hours, you must have some Dev-only weapon or something. Playing that content solo, blind, does not get cleared in only 2 hours. Something like 5 Quests, a set of Bounties and a Strike (as the strike needs to be completed to complete the quest line). The strike alone is 30 minutes. Bounties require you to wait for a Public Event to pop before you can do those. And a Quests isn't always just a single mission.

This is a very real difference in business model but how much of a difference can we say is justified between the two because if we had even 20% of the GW or GW2 content Destiny would be a significantly bigger game.

 

[Caja 117]

If you can't tell the difference, you're in too deep.

If you can't tell the difference, then good for you. You must get endless replay value out of a cup and a ball.

One has a engaging story to tell, the other is a competition between two parties, at the end both are based on repetition, and everyone has their own taste, some people prefer their content to be SP focused, while others are only there for the PvP value, games like Halo, CoD, BF, Counter Strike, League are just the same, I dont consider games like this "Starved on Content" every match is different given most of the time you dont compete against the same group of people.

What is really starved on content? something like the Order, or Ryse and even like this, someone will say that the content is justified on the pricetag.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Are they really? To me it looks to be the same old shit constantly, no cycles involved.

Well, I guess it's really just degrees of "shitty".

 

[solokazama]

hahaha.. really xcant stop laughing
glad i stopped play it after i hit 25 lvl .. when i realized how fk up this game is (zero itemisation, no hubs for raids, quests are just lvl check)

 

[Tomeru]

If you can't tell the difference, then good for you. You must get endless replay value out of a cup and a ball.

In his defense, a game is only as good as the player who plays it. It's engaging only if the player is motivated by it. I have plyed every mass effect game for 100s hours atleast, but have invested in Destiny almost twice as much, and I can't see that changing any time soon. If raw numbers and cold facts are what makes a game "more", than we would all play the same game just because.

Players are what make a game complete, and a player decides how much content is just right, and when that content stops being. This is why multiplayer games gets the most hours out of everything. Repetetiveness becomes obscured when the human elements decides. Not before.

 

[Lalalandia]

Then no game is bigger than another game as you are basically repeating everything over and over, so far I spent x amount of hours on Witcher 3 Killing the same types of enemies over and over and over. how is this different from playing PvP against different players over and over and over? Just because you dont like a particular part of the game doesnt mean is not part of the content of the game.

Let's not be silly now there us more content (audio, animations, characters, locations) in the first 'Find Ciri' quest in Velen than there is in the whole of Destiny. Odd you would raise shooting people over and over, of course that is repetitive, my point was that I have to listen to Peter Dinklage struggle to stay awake over and over again as I get my shooting on. Destiny clearly shipped with a completely broken plot and the relative coherence of the brief DLCs only hammer that home.

 

[SoulUnison]

"People are complaining our game doesn't have enough content to justify its price tag. What should we do? Charge less? Make more content?"

"Nah, let's just lock more of the regular content behind merchandising paywalls."

"I'm ashamed to work here, Bill."

"No you're not. There's no such thing as shame here."

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It's the "Destiny players are used to paying a premium for content like this quest" that gets me.

 

[NullPointer]

It's the "Destiny players are used to paying a premium for content like this quest" that gets me.

Yep. I could swear I heard a celestial rimshot after reading that bit.

 

[Principate]

No difference in the model for GW or Destiny, you buy a game, you play as often as you want for no more cash, both include SP and MP content, both have raids, both have world events.Just one has far more content for the $60 than the other.

Nope finished all SP content in HoW in two hours last night. Sure there's PoE and MP (don't care for PvP) but those are inherently mechanical repeatable experiences so you get as much out as you put in but in unique content terms, two hours.

Guy can buy base GW2 for $10.

Really puts in perspective the laughable content value destiny has.

 

[sploatee]

It's the "Destiny players are used to paying a premium for content like this quest" that gets me.

It's just corporate speak.

Do you really think these giant listed publishers don't each talk about customers this way? Their goal is to maximise returns on investment.

It's embarrassing it's leaked though. I guess the response here is cumulative given the great PR Bungie have helped make over the past week.

This whole thing could've been avoided if they were better (erm, good) communicators.

 

[Ceadeus]

I'm assuming a lot of cocaine

Oh, and money

Ahah oh god, yeah

 

[Caja 117]

Let's not be silly now there us more content (audio, animations, characters, locations) in the first 'Find Ciri' quest in Velen than there is in the whole of Destiny. Odd you would raise shooting people over and over, of course that is repetitive, my point was that I have to listen to Peter Dinklage struggle to stay awake over and over again as I get my shooting on. Destiny clearly shipped with a completely broken plot and the relative coherence of the brief DLCs only hammer that home.

I think you are not getting my post, and I sort of explained my opinion in my last post, Witcher is SP game, so, these elements you mention are a given, but the gameplay is repeating the same actions over and over and over.

And Dont get me wrong, I consider Witcher 3 to be 100000% better on any aspect than Desttiny (perhaps Soundtrack wise they are on Par) but one is ment to be Play on your own, while the other experience is enhanced when you are doing it with a group of friends.

 

[Bsigg12]

I'm surprised this didn't happen earlier. Red Bull has had a partnership with Activision for Destiny since launch.

 

[Principate]

It's just corporate speak.

Do you really think these giant listed publishers don't each talk about customers this way? Their goal is to maximise returns on investment.

It's embarrassing it's leaked though. I guess the response here is cumulative given the great PR Bungie have helped make over the past week.

This whole thing could've been avoided if they were better (erm, good) communicators.

Some do not all, though that number is becoming increasingly small as gamers show these corporations how much crap their willing to take simply due to lack of foresight or patience.

 

[tuxfool]

One has a engaging story to tell, the other is a competition between two parties, at the end both are based on repetition, and everyone has their own taste, some people prefer their content to be SP focused, while others are only there for the PvP value, games like Halo, CoD, BF, Counter Strike, League are just the same, I dont consider games like this "Starved on Content" every match is different given most of the time you dont compete against the same group of people.

What is really starved on content? something like the Order, or Ryse and even like this, someone will say that the content is justified on the pricetag.

You can't count on PvP as content. If they provided more maps etc. then that would count. Making people travel the same map backwards also doesn't count.

The production effort in making people travel backwards on the same map isn't the same as a new quest in the Witcher for example.

Also there is a vast difference in the way repetition is dressed up. Destiny gives no meaning to the repetition, no story, only hamster wheeling of loot, there is very little hidden stuff (beyond loot caves etc.). Even WoW attempts to dress up the quests you perform more appropriately than anything found in destiny.

 

[Justinh]

Hmmm. I just reinstalled Destiny yesterday because I haven't played since the last expansion came out. Was kinda interested in the "new" stuff I was seeing. This makes me feel kind of gross.

Luke Smith: You're feeling anxious because you want this exclusive content but you don't know yet how much you want it.
...If I fired up a video right now and showed you the [wings you would grow] you would throw money at the screen.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It's just corporate speak.

Do you really think these giant listed publishers don't each talk about customers this way? Their goal is to maximise returns on investment.

It's embarrassing it's leaked though. I guess the response here is cumulative given the great PR Bungie have helped make over the past week.

This whole thing could've been avoided if they were better (erm, good) communicators.

Well it just reinforces the idea that the lack of content in expansions and the like is deliberate rather than a mistake in planning or whatever.

 

[Glass Shark]

I feel like Bungie and Activision are just seeing what they can get away with at this point. This game is a farce.

 

[Forsythia]

As an Xbox gamer I'm used to receiving content late, even if I already paid for it. PlayStation gamers can join in on that fun, I guess.

 

[see5harp]

I think you are not getting my post, and I sort of explained my opinion in my last post, Witcher is SP game, so, these elements you mention are a given, but the gameplay is repeating the same actions over and over and over.

And Dont get me wrong, I consider Witcher 3 to be 100000% better on any aspect than Desttiny (perhaps Soundtrack wise they are on Par) but one is ment to be Play on your own, while the other experience is enhanced when you are doing it with a group of friends.

We're referring to content. So far the only argument I do think you have is the PVP modes, but honestly I didn't find Destiny's PVP to be anywhere close to what Bungie has done in the past with Halo, nor was the content in those modes particularly good. Just look at something like Reach. That's content.

 

[Caja 117]

You can't count on PvP as content. If they provided more maps etc. then that would count. Making people travel the same map backwards also doesn't count.

The production effort in making people travel backwards on the same map isn't the same as a new quest in the Witcher for example.

That just been selective, PvP is 50% of any MP game. I compare Destiny to its equivalent, any CoD, BF, Halo game, and there is really not that big difference in content. Witcher is a SP only game so I expect the game to have expansive content in its SP.

We're referring to content. So far the only argument I do think you have is the PVP modes, but honestly I didn't find Destiny's PVP to be anywhere close to what Bungie has done in the past with Halo, nor was the content in those modes particularly good. Just look at something like Reach. That's content.

NEither Do I consider their PvP to be better than their first 3 Halos, but I think that is Subjective, thousands of people do seem to enjoy it.

 

[Jest Chillin]

Anet have it worse support wise by a country mile, 4 configs is a fiddle compared to the literally thousands of PC configurations a out there. Also Activision have their own patch system which is why every so often launching Destiny results in a slideshow of concept art.

Arena Net has it different.. not worse. The biggest difference being that if Johnny Smith is getting low frame rates, Anet can suggest that he adjust a myriad of settings that Johnny has access to to fix the problem on his end. If Johnny's brother Tommy gets low frames on his Console game... the Dev has to figure out a way to fix it on their end, compile it in a patch, QC that patch.. pay the console manufacturer to allow them to patch.. get through console manufacturer QC.. then it gets to Tommy.

And the internal patchers within the Application doesn't bypass having to patch through Sony or MS servers. They still have to pay and they still have to go through each respective companies QC.

This is a very real difference in business model but how much of a difference can we say is justified between the two because if we had even 20% of the GW or GW2 content Destiny would be a significantly bigger game.

We can say that all of the difference is justified between the two because they are constructed entirely different. Comparing the amount of total content would be more appropriate between Destiny and CoD and Halo because they're inherently more similar in construction than Destiny and any standard MMO.

Understand that my point of contention isn't with you having a complaint about the size of Destiny but that you're trying to support your opinion with an unfair and ill-fitting comparison.

 

[backflip10019]

Holy shit Bungie and Activision are truly doing all the can to make me never want to ever even think about Destiny again. Really disgusting business practices all around.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

They specifically mention a multi-stage quest.

It'd be hilarious if you had to use multiple cans in order to unlock different steps of the quest, hahaha.

ha.

._.

 

[see5harp]

That just been selective, PvP is 50% of any MP game. I compare Destiny to its equivalent, any CoD, BF, Halo game, and there is really not that big difference in content. Witcher is a SP only game so I expect the game to have expansive content in its SP.



NEither Do I consider their PvP to be better than their first 3 Halos, but I think that is Subjective, thousands of people do seem to enjoy it.

I'm not convinced that you ever played Halo if you honestly believe the Destiny package was on par.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Dont get me wrong it's shit but..
I will get the lads at work to buy them instead of monster for a month and save the codes.

But this really REALLY is not as bad as some of you guys want it too be.

 

[Lothars]

Let's not be silly now there us more content (audio, animations, characters, locations) in the first 'Find Ciri' quest in Velen than there is in the whole of Destiny. Odd you would raise shooting people over and over, of course that is repetitive, my point was that I have to listen to Peter Dinklage struggle to stay awake over and over again as I get my shooting on. Destiny clearly shipped with a completely broken plot and the relative coherence of the brief DLCs only hammer that home.

I find guild wars 2 an unfun game that really keeps lacking all the way through. I agree that destiny needs more content but it is one of the most compelling game experiences I have had in years.

So it's really opinions and all that.

We're referring to content. So far the only argument I do think you have is the PVP modes, but honestly I didn't find Destiny's PVP to be anywhere close to what Bungie has done in the past with Halo, nor was the content in those modes particularly good. Just look at something like Reach. That's content.

I think Destiny's PVP is extremely good but completely different than anything they did in Reach. I really enjoy Reach multiplayer and think it's very good but really hard to say if one is better than the other with how they are structured.

I'm not convinced that you ever played Halo if you honestly believe the Destiny package was on par.

It absolutely is on par with Halo multiplayer. They are completely different experiences but both really fun in there own right.

 

[Caja 117]

I'm not convinced that you ever played Halo if you honestly believe the Destiny package was on par.

Huh? I just said I dont consider Destiny to be better than the first 3 Halo, Reach was just an early Destiny build. but look me up, I mostly played Halo 3, zCaja, if you are not convinced. When I said Equivalent, Im talking about what they bring to the table in terms of content.

 

[Future]

As a developer, I understand. It's shitty, but I understand.

Most console games make all their money in the initial release surge. That month that you see it on npd is where it makes the most money. After that, you may get some extra cash from dlc (which often is nothing compared to the initial release... Depending on the game of course). It has actually blown my mind that bungee has truly been continuously updating the game with such a large team. Eventually they need that next surge of income to make it worthwhile

So you make money by getting sony to pay for for exclusive content. Red bull. Getting people to buy the entire game again when they don't have to. This is how you get the funds for a 10 year plan on one game. It's shitty to the players, but it guarantees their continuous support. Hopefully it merely sounds worse than it is.

 

[Jacksinthe]

This deal just keeps getting worse all the time.

 

[Papercuts]

It's actually incredible how every single time I see something destiny related, the entire game becomes even more facepalm worthy. That poor userbase.

 

[NullPointer]

But this really REALLY is not as bad as some of you guys want it too be.

Destiny is the last game that should be withholding content behind these kinds of deals. It needs every last morsel of gameplay it can get, but yet its still having parts of it cut out and distributed by way of various promotions and co-marketing deals as timed exclusives, while the remainder of the game is sold at the very highest of price-points.

Its not a formula that fosters a happy community.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Dont get me wrong it's shit but..
I will get the lads at work to buy them instead of monster for a month and save the codes.

But this really REALLY is not as bad as some of you guys want it too be.

I quit House of Wolves after 2 and a half weeks because there is nothing left to do that is new or offers good drops. Because literally everything from Vanilla Destiny is overpowered as fuck compared to any of the new things.

 

[TechOne]

BECOME LEGEND™

 

[see5harp]

Huh? I just said I dont consider Destiny to be better than the first 3 Halo, Reach was just an early Destiny build. but look me up, I mostly played Halo 3, zCaja, if you are not convinced. When I said Equivalent, Im talking about what they bring to the table in terms of content.

Yea I misread. I didn't even mention forge or the ability to play custom games though. Hell reach had arena. I swear Destiny PVP felt like an afterthought. There were like 3 modes and what felt like a handful of maps.

 

[Magwik]

Hey we should probably late until we know exactly what the quest is before getting overly angry and upset at everything.

 

[Lalalandia]

This deal just keeps getting worse all the time.

Pray Bungie doesn't alter it further

 

[qa_engineer]

As an Xbox gamer I'm used to receiving content late, even if I already paid for it. PlayStation gamers can join in on that fun, I guess.

pretty sure this has nothing to do with getting content late and all about buying another product to unlock content on a totally unrelated product.

 

[JaseMath]

Destiny is slowly becoming my most hated videogame-related anything of all time. Since it's release, it has set terrible precedent after terrible precedent.

 

[fastballspecial]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=159991540&highlight=#post159991540

April 14 - " I haven't bought a season pasS since. Probably won't ever again. I don't even have Destiny installed anymore. What a waste"

How many times are you going to uninstall Destiny?

You're a regular fucking Dark Knight, aren't you? I had to uninstall it previously because I was out of HDD space. So when I upgraded to a 2TB HDD I reinstalled it about six weeks ago. Now, it's gone again. Feel better?

 

[commish]

But this really REALLY is not as bad as some of you guys want it too be.

This is exactly how it starts. A small thing here (e.g., some horse armor), and then before you know it, it snowballs out of control. It's a bad thing because when you buy a game, you shouldn't be required to spend additional money to get things that should otherwise have been included. No one really cares about cosmetic stuff, but when a game already has an extreme lack of content, it's extremely ridiculous when the publisher puts additional content behind an additional paywall. Destiny players are upset about this because we are thirsty (...) for content, and Bungie is just taking advantage of us. I mean, they basically admitted as much in that interview the other day.

 

[sploatee]

Some do not all, though that number is becoming increasingly small as gamers show these corporations how much crap their willing to take simply due to lack of foresight or patience.

If people enjoy the product and the price is right, they'll buy it. The market will decide. Forum posts and such might help influence it but I think the general gaming consumer is used to DLC, season passes, preorder bonuses, marketing tie-ins etc.

Well it just reinforces the idea that the lack of content in expansions and the like is deliberate rather than a mistake in planning or whatever.

It definitely feels like "year 1" should have been the launch game but was kept back for commercial purposes and to allow Bungie to iterate and tweak their plans.

Activision would have been involved in the discussions, I imagine, and there would have been internal discussions as to just how to make the product as profitable as possible. AAA gaming is a business, after all.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

This is exactly how it starts. A small thing here (e.g., some horse armor), and then before you know it, it snowballs out of control. It's a bad thing because when you buy a game, you shouldn't be required to spend additional money to get things that should otherwise have been included. No one really cares about cosmetic stuff, but when a game already has an extreme lack of content, it's extremely ridiculous when the publisher puts additional content behind an additional paywall. Destiny players are upset about this because we are thirsty (...) for content, and Bungie is just taking advantage of us. I mean, they basically admitted as much in that interview the other day.

People keep saying complete lack of content, especially with regards to TTK.

Has anyone other than people at Bungie seen exactly how much content it actually has? It's not out yet. It was just formally announced a week ago. We've seen info regarding class changes, new items, a new area and other things being added with screenshots from the E3 floor.

Lacking content? Really?

 

[Anton Sugar]

Destiny is the last game that should be withholding content behind these kinds of deals. It needs every last morsel of gameplay it can get, but yet its still having parts of it cut out and distributed by way of various promotions and co-marketing deals as timed exclusives, while the remainder of the game is sold at the very highest of price-points.

Its not a formula that fosters a happy community.

This is exactly how it starts. A small thing here (e.g., some horse armor), and then before you know it, it snowballs out of control. It's a bad thing because when you buy a game, you shouldn't be required to spend additional money to get things that should otherwise have been included. No one really cares about cosmetic stuff, but when a game already has an extreme lack of content, it's extremely ridiculous when the publisher puts additional content behind an additional paywall. Destiny players are upset about this because we are thirsty (...) for content, and Bungie is just taking advantage of us. I mean, they basically admitted as much in that interview the other day.

This. "It's not THAT bad" is something Destiny defenders have been saying for a while. They add up, for the rest of us, at least.