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The Wii U Speculation Thread V: The Final Frontier

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E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Gahiggidy said:
Do you think the Wii U will have enough power, and Nintendo enough resources, to make a game like Mario Sunshine where all the areas are reachable without loading? I always thought it would add tremendously to the sense of exploration if you cold, eventually, get to every area of the island by pathways, tunnels or just swimming along the shoreline.
Click to expand...

Sure. Modern hardware should be fine with streaming complex data, though it still depends on complexity of said data. The bigger, more complex and detailed the environment it has to load, the more difficult it becomes. Where necessary, Nintendo is pretty damn great at hiding loading scenes, as well as optimising assets to suit larger environments. Twilight Princess is a good example. If I recall correctly, Miyamoto was adamant that the game feature no asset pop-in. Though it has LOD pop-in like pretty much all games ever, most enemies and structures do not. If you look out across the larger parts of Hyrule Field you will still be able to see every enemy, tree and object in the distance.

One worry here, depending on asset complexity, is the speed of the Wii U's drive. Both the PS3 and (to a lesser extent) the 360 negate a lot of loading issues by allowing portions of the game to be installed. These days optimisation is good enough that it's okay to load the whole game from the disk (versus the early days of shitty PS3 games that had to be installed), but it can still make a massive difference when you do. Skyrim on the 360 has faster loading if you install it to the HDD, and the same would be for Wii U games. It could be beneficial to something like Zelda, if Zelda were using Uncharted 3-esque levels of texture detail and scene complexity.

walking fiend said:
another problem is asset recycling. UC games look like another; one zelda game to another and the whole art style and theme changes.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. I'm not crazy about the series, but there's a pretty great variety of assets throughout all three games and not a shameless overuse of assets. That's a bonus of making tightly controlled, compartmentalised games like Uncharted though. You can tailor a massive variety of assets across the experience, as you don't need to worry too much about overly large interactive environments or complex gameplay bogging down dev time and resources. It's like...building a movie.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
EatChildren said:
Zelda could look that good, but I don't think it will. The Uncharted series looks as good as it does thanks to having very small, tightly controlled environment, and minimal interactivity with said environments. The size and scale is all an illusion. Compartmentalisation, heavy scripting and simplistic interactivity allow system resources to really push hardware to the limits.

Zelda, traditionally, is a lot more free form. Individual dungeon components could look that good if they kept the current formula, but the overworld could not.

Besides, the Zelda games are on average much bigger than any of the Uncharted games. Covering a project of that size with the kind of meticulous detail and technical wizardry of Uncharted would be a huge money, time and resource sink.
Click to expand...
I know, I assumed people were familiar with the game when I said it, but it still paints a pretty picture in my mind.

Look at open world games like RDR, Skyrim, Dark Souls. Some seriously impressive things happening in those games, and they're more open world than Zelda! So it just goes to show that potential for a stunning game is there, if they devs are up for it.
 
W

walking fiend

Member
EatChildren said:
Sure. Modern hardware should be fine with streaming complex data, though it still depends on complexity of said data. The bigger, more complex and detailed the environment it has to load, the more difficult it becomes. Where necessary, Nintendo is pretty damn great at hiding loading scenes, as well as optimising assets to suit larger environments. Twilight Princess is a good example. If I recall correctly, Miyamoto was adamant that the game feature no asset pop-in. Though it has LOD pop-in like pretty much all games ever, most enemies and structures do not. If you look out across the larger parts of Hyrule Field you will still be able to see every enemy, tree and object in the distance.

One worry here, depending on asset complexity, is the speed of the Wii U's drive. Both the PS3 and (to a lesser extent) the 360 negate a lot of loading issues by allowing portions of the game to be installed. These days optimisation is good enough that it's okay to load the whole game from the disk (versus the early days of shitty PS3 games that had to be installed), but it can still make a massive difference when you do. Skyrim on the 360 has faster loading if you install it to the HDD, and the same would be for Wii U games. It could be beneficial to something like Zelda, if Zelda were using Uncharted 3-esque levels of texture detail and scene complexity.
Click to expand...
I believe if they use USB2 as the HD port, it's speed will be comparable to blu-ray anyway; maybe unless they use USB3, which apparently is confirmed NOT to be the case
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
and there's little dog and bird people on one side as classes and apes and dinosaurs on the other and you have these crazy maps that you can drive landmasters over
 
B

bridegur

Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
So it just goes to show that potential for a stunning game is there, if they devs are up for it.
Click to expand...

I think the problem, then, is that the devs unfortunately aren't up to it. They seem to have given up on making the Zelda series really technically impressive, which is a shame, since the N64 games really pushed things visually.
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
EatChildren,

That's promising to hear. Though, with Nintendo I think often they are more limited by their imaginations/ambition than they are by technology. I'd LOVE to see, for example, a vast open world Pikmin game, where every area is interconnected. Players would be tempted to venture far, far off from the safety of thier ships and risk loosing all the Pikmin they've brought along for the march if they aren't mindful of the time.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
bridegur said:
I think the problem, then, is that the devs unfortunately aren't up to it. They seem to have given up on making the Zelda series really technically impressive, which is a shame, since the N64 games really pushed things visually.
Click to expand...
I don't fully believe this. Also they did mention that certain games like Zelda should pack a punch. They'll probably use it as their showcase as well like Sony does uncharted. Guess we will have to see what nuance do devs are made of this upcoming gen.
 
G

GameplayWhore

Member
Hiltz said:
I'm off to bed. It's getting crazy in here again.
Click to expand...

Wait, *now* when people are finally speculating on game design for the new system and discussing actual game rumours, it's getting crazy?

Where were you every other day of this thread when all people did was post silly pictures, rant at each other about polygons, and talk about figs?
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
and there's this one control point that's in a low orbit space station that you have to take a space elevator to or fly an arwing or wolfen up to it and then some dude figures out how to get to get a tank up there
 
T

TheGreatMightyPoo

Banned
Krev said:
This is why they'd better bring a Pac-Man Vs. sequel to the eShop.
It's the one multiplayer GBA/GCN connectivity game that works perfectly with the single tablet Wii U set-up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I thought of that right after I made the joke, what an ideal game for the controller.

You wouldn't have to use the silly 3DS for it either.
 
G

Gamer @ Heart

Member
EmCeeGramr said:
and there's this one control point that's in a low orbit space station that you have to take a space elevator to or fly an arwing or wolfen up to it and then some dude figures out how to get to get a tank up there
Click to expand...

Will there be custom match settings so that I can make all bots krystal which then me and 7 other friends could kill in a terrorist hunt like mode?
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
usmanusb said:
its interesting to see what developers are doing for next gen character modeling.

Naughty Dog Working On Next Gen Game With “Million Poly Character Models”
http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/naughty-dog-working-next-gen-game-million-poly-character-models-1690568/

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthrea...4′s-million-polygon-characters-will-look-like
Click to expand...

Grrrr...

They are talking about using higher res normals.

You aren't going to get millions of polies on a character in a game like Uncharted. The camera is set too far away, and you'd be wasting resources. FPS would be more likely to see a discernible increase. With efficient use of tessellation.
 
I

Instro

Member
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
From the Emenin rumor:
most likely bullshit said:
- a marketing agency in Sacramento, California teamed with Nintendo for an E3 video
Click to expand...
Well, which marketing agency? Why would your source leave that out? Anyways, here is a list of agency's in that area:
Sacramento Advertising Agencies

Perry Communications Group Inc
925 L Street Suite 1200
Sacramento, CA 95814
916-658-0144

4m Advertising Representatives
2020 Hurley Wy., Ste. 222
Sacramento, CA 95825
916-566-1112

Crocker Flanagan
6313 Elvas Avenue
Sacramento, CA 95819
916-552-7971

Afisha Russian Advertising
4555 Auburn Blvd # J
Sacramento, CA 95841
916-482-5432

Fleishman-Hillard Inc
400 Capitol Mall # 2640
Sacramento, CA 95814
916-441-7606

Mering Carson
1700 I St # 210
Sacramento, CA 95814
916-441-0571

Hill & Knowlton Inc
1215 K St # 1850
Sacramento, CA 95814
916-658-1100

Tsuruda Tsolutions
1417 Oregon Dr
Sacramento, CA
916-456-0171

Edelman Public Relations Worldwide
921 11th Street Suite 501
Sacramento, CA 95814
916-442-2331

Ogilvy Public Relations Worldwide
2495 Natomas Park Drive
Sacramento, CA 95833
916-418-1500

Ads Plus
(916) 448-4565
Sacramento, CA

Advertising Concepts
(916) 483-9225
3700 Haven Glen Pl
Sacramento, CA

Afisha Russian Advertising
(916) 482-5432
4555 Auburn Blvd # J
Sacramento, CA

America's Lending Partners
(916) 492-2700 800 R St
Sacramento, CA

Anthony Group Advertising
(916) 440-0477
Sacramento, CA

Apco Worldwide
(916) 554-3400
1215 K St # 1500
Sacramento, CA

Atlantis Advertising
(916) 922-1828
1451 River Park Dr # 220
Sacramento, CA

Bernard Hodes Group
(916) 565-1993
221 Lathrop Way # G
Sacramento, CA

Best Values Advertising
(916) 441-3335
Sacramento, CA

Clark Ashmore Advertising
(916) 369-0500
9845 Horn Rd # 250
Sacramento, CA

Dane Henas Design
(916) 448-1968
1808 Q St # A
Sacramento, CA

Darryl Mc Guire Media
(916) 449-3966
400 Capitol Mall # 900
Sacramento, CA

Dbg Communications
(916) 362-3673
3400 Bradshaw Rd # A2
Sacramento, CA

Digital Marketing Group
(916) 447-8450
Sacramento, CA

Dondero & Leonard
(916) 971-3400
3415 American River Dr # C
Sacramento, CA

Focus Commercial Photography
(916) 454-4592
2009 V St
Sacramento, CA

Gemini Marketing Consultants
(916) 565-7602
777 Campus Commons Rd
Sacramento, CA

Hewitt & Assoc Advertising
(916) 399-8837
6880 65th St
Sacramento, CA

Hire Solutions
(916) 231-2313
2033 Howe Ave
Sacramento, CA

Horizon Advertising & Pblc Rel
(916) 925-0562
1329 Howe Ave # 203
Sacramento, CA

Hull & Honeycutt Marketing
(916) 929-4777
2100 Northrop Ave # 900
Sacramento, CA

Jel Productions
(916) 446-7457
1530 X St
Sacramento, CA

Jhme Advg Design & Public
(916) 557-1700
2220 K St
Sacramento, CA

John W Harris Marketing
(916) 488-4221
1101 Morse Ave
Sacramento, CA

Justin Co
(916) 497-0136
1130 Robertson Way
Sacramento, CA

K & H Marketing
(916) 922-3700
62 Arden Way
Sacramento, CA

Kati White Media Service
(916) 363-9000
Sacramento, CA

Keil & Assoc
(916) 988-1308
3555 Marconi Ave
Sacramento, CA

Larzelere Design
(916) 457-7655
4400 D St
Sacramento, CA

Lock Agency Inc Advertising
(916) 442-4684
3009 F St
Sacramento, CA

M 7 Inc
(916) 392-7770
2386 Fair Oaks Blvd # 312
Sacramento, CA

M 7 Inc
(916) 480-0877
39 Southlite Cir
Sacramento, CA

Media Communication Group
(916) 442-4041
Sacramento, CA

Monogram Communications
(916) 922-3952
550 Howe Ave
Sacramento, CA

Nationwide Posting
(916) 974-6400
1050 Fulton Ave # 213
Sacramento, CA

Ncg Porter Novelli
(916) 443-3354
1215 K St # 2100
Sacramento, CA

Newspaper Network Inc
(916) 614-7000
3840 Rosin Ct # 100
Sacramento, CA

Pacific West Yellowpages
(916) 444-1144
2321 P St # 200
Sacramento, CA

Philippine Fiesta
(916) 708-3462
8624 Ichabod Ct
Sacramento, CA

Pritchard Advertising Inc
(916) 332-1044
5016 Holyoke Way
Sacramento, CA

Questall Inc
(916) 481-7246
2740 Fulton Ave
Sacramento, CA

Randle Communications
(916) 456-0880
2100 21st St # B
Sacramento, CA

Reg Travers Advertising
(916) 362-3989
2855 Black Hills Way
Sacramento, CA

Reilly Co
(916) 386-2000
8801 Folsom Blvd # 165
Sacramento, CA

Revell Communications
(916) 443-3816
1121 L St # 806
Sacramento, CA

Seraphein Beyn Advertising
(916) 441-7911
2319 J St
Sacramento, CA

Sterling Group Advertising Inc
(916) 923-9400
601 University Ave # 236
Sacramento, CA

Swift Advertising
(916) 481-0586
2537 Cottage Way
Sacramento, CA

Syner-G Inc
(916) 334-6500
4811 Madison Ave
Sacramento, CA

Thielen & Assoc
(916) 924-0018
1555 River Park Dr
Sacramento, CA

Vision Advertising Group
(916) 492-2350
800 R St
Sacramento, CA
Click to expand...
First thing tomorrow morning you guys need to start making calls. I did my part by cut and pasting the contacts.
 
I

InfiniDragon

Member
Thunder Monkey said:
Grrrr...

They are talking about using higher res normals.
Click to expand...

Yup.

Anyone who actually thinks million plus polys on characters is gonna become the norm is full of rubbish. The normal maps being baked from much higher res and higher poly models is what's gonna really be happening even though the character poly counts on high budget stuff will likely increase as well.
 
O

Oddduck

Member
Gahiggidy said:
From the Emenin rumor: Well, which marketing agency? Why would your source leave that out? Anyways, here is a list of agency's in that area:First thing tomorrow morning you guys need to start making calls. I did my part by cut and pasting the contacts.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't they be under NDA's to keep things secret? They could just deny it.
 
L

lordfroakie

Member
Gahiggidy said:
From the Emenin rumor: Well, which marketing agency? Why would your source leave that out? Anyways, here is a list of agency's in that area:First thing tomorrow morning you guys need to start making calls. I did my part by cut and pasting the contacts.
Click to expand...

How about no? They wont give some random strangers news. Stop harassing people for wiiu info :p
 
U

usmanusb

Member
Thunder Monkey said:
Grrrr...

They are talking about using higher res normals.

You aren't going to get millions of polies on a character in a game like Uncharted. The camera is set too far away, and you'd be wasting resources. FPS would be more likely to see a discernible increase. With efficient use of tessellation.
Click to expand...

it makes sense but may be they are looking at doing for closeup. If things goes like this may be we may get something like avatar characters...
 
G

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
vectorman06 said:
How about no? They wont give some random strangers news. Stop harassing people for wiiu info :p
Click to expand...

Well, as long as you are polite and explain yourself...

"Hello, this is Thunder Monkey from the Wii U Speculation Thread Five. I don't want to take up much of your time, but if you could just clear up some news reports about work your agency may have recently done for a client..."
 
E

EloquentM

aka Mannny
BY2K said:
Done!

i5PVzRgFvEc1C.png


B1: Third-Party AAA Title Announced
B2: Blown Away
B3: Mario Paper 3DS
B4: Banned
B5: Referring to new console as "New Sexy"

I1: FIGS IN HIS RECTUM
I2: Not normal
I3: Being cranky
I4: Gets a record deal
I5: Won't post

N1: Banned
N2: FIGS IN HIS RECTUM TOO!
N3: Free Space
N4: Goes insane
N5: Bragging about F-Zero Wii U being revealed

G1: Is pretentious
G2: Makes absurd joke
G3: Won't attack GAFers when butthurt
G4: Record number of E3 related bans
G5: Redeemed

O1: Makes more awesome gifs
O2: Posting irritating comments and 1up people's joke
O3: Redeemed
O4: Cry because of Kirby Wii U
O5: Huge rant if Star Fox and F-Zero = No show
Click to expand...
Hahaha flawless.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Gahiggidy said:
Well, as long as you are polite and explain yourself...

"Hello, this is Thunder Monkey from the Wii U Speculation Thread Five. I don't want to take up much of your time, but if you could just clear up some news reports about work your agency may have recently done for a client..."
Click to expand...

Precisely.

(Plus, we're Nintendo fans. Gotta keep-up that whole "crazy as a shithouse rat" reputation that we have.)
 
T

TheCongressman1

Member
Gahiggidy said:
Well, as long as you are polite and explain yourself...

"Hello, this is Thunder Monkey from the Wii U Speculation Thread Five. I don't want to take up much of your time, but if you could just clear up some news reports about work your agency may have recently done for a client..."
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't see the problem with this. It can't hurt to ask, right?


"Hello, this is Reggie. Don't be shy, I already know what you're up to, so let's discuss this."

Or

"Hey this is the WiiU Speculation thread. We make lots of Reggie shops, so we need to know what's going on."
 
J

jump_button

Banned
usmanusb said:
its interesting to see what developers are doing for next gen character modeling.

Naughty Dog Working On Next Gen Game With “Million Poly Character Models”
http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/naughty-dog-working-next-gen-game-million-poly-character-models-1690568/

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthrea...4′s-million-polygon-characters-will-look-like
Click to expand...

Just think of the faces as Mario stomped on something and how realistic it be to see the hope and dreams go from they eyes!
 
U

usmanusb

Member
jump_button said:
Just think of the faces as Mario stomped on something and how realistic it be to see the hope and dreams go from they eyes!
Click to expand...

:)
who wana see mario's bugger :D
as what iwata said, different content may need different graphics

but it will be cool to see in eternal darkness, resident evil or even in metroid prime series..
 
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