Support NeoGAF

[z0m3le]

You have UE3 for those devices. UE3 for iphone/ipad is not exactly the same as UE3 for pc/x360/ps3/vita, you understand that, right?

Besides, kepler is now expensive, it won't be in the next months when UE4 is suppose to ship.

Epic themselves believe UE4 won't be on launch titles and figure that they will come later, I can see in 2015 that mobile graphics chips (talking about laptops here) reach the necessary power for UE4, but we won't be seeing that at launch.

And correct me if I'm wrong since I've never touched the UE3 mobile platform, but is it just UE3 in name, or can you downport your projects to iOS from PC/PS360 titles? because if not then there really isn't UE3 on iOS.

Basically if they plan to support PC games in 2014, developers can't use UE4 unless it already down scales to Wii U's performance levels, because that is the majority of the PC market.

Just look at stuff like AMD fusion with it's 80 shaders to 400 shaders, it's performance is less powerful than a 360 when closed box operations is considered, and even trinity didn't catch them up... I really doubt the PC market would be ready to exceed the sort of power we are talking about, and I'm not even looking at UE3.99 using a 680GTX for it's demo.

 

[magash]

Epic probably figure that there's money to be made in being the only choice in the AAA console sphere, even if it's contracting.

If they're smart, they'll release an updated UE3 with some of the real time viewing features that are being added to UE4 (and are already present in competitors like like Cry Engine 3 and Unity) and market it to developers for the mobile space and Wii U.

But Epic isn't the only choice for AAA console engines. Crytek is a competitor and many 3rd party publishers have their own in house engines.

Hypothetically speaking lets say the Wii U doesn't support UE4 and after the launch of the Wii U its sales explode. What does Epic do?

 

[lherre]

Epic themselves believe UE4 won't be on launch titles and figure that they will come later, I can see in 2015 that mobile graphics chips (talking about laptops here) reach the necessary power for UE4, but we won't be seeing that at launch.

And correct me if I'm wrong since I've never touched the UE3 mobile platform, but is it just UE3 in name, or can you downport your projects to iOS from PC/PS360 titles? because if not then there really isn't UE3 on iOS.

Basically if they plan to support PC games in 2014, developers can't use UE4 unless it already down scales to Wii U's performance levels, because that is the majority of the PC market.

Just look at stuff like AMD fusion with it's 80 shaders to 400 shaders, it's performance is less powerful than a 360 when closed box operations is considered, and even trinity didn't catch them up... I really doubt the PC market would be ready to exceed the sort of power we are talking about, and I'm not even looking at UE3.99 using a 680GTX for it's demo.

How to put it ... it's UE3, same tools, same chain (more or less) abut with some differences, mainly in memory use, resolutions, etc. But you can't put the same project on iphone from a pc build automatically, you have some recommendations that have to meet before that.

They are very close, but not the same.

 

[HylianTom]

But Epic isn't the only choice for AAA console engines. Crytek is a competitor and many 3rd party publishers have their own in house engines.

Hypothetically speaking lets say the Wii U doesn't support UE4 and after the launch of the Wii U its sales explode. What does Epic do?

I think Epic goes back to the drawing board and tries to find a way to force it. If I recall correctly, one much-touted feature of UE4 is its supposed scaleability; this would be a very good test of that claim.

(I have been finding it humorous that so many seem to be writing Nintendo off again. Did they not pay attention this time around? We just don't know..)

 

[axisofweevils]

So, have I missed anything since yesterday?

 

[BurntPork]

Holy crap. BurntPork taking an extremely pessimistic view of something about Nintendo based off extremely premature information.

What will happen next!

lherre, is my view pessimistic or realistic?

 

[Krev]

If the wuc is propped up in the same location as the TV than wouldn't the wiimote camera get confused by the two sensor bars?

Maybe it would work if the wuc is on a nearby coffee table, a good distance from the TV.

But Epic isn't the only choice for AAA console engines. Crytek is a competitor and many 3rd party publishers have their own in house engines.

UE4 is presumably their bid to crush CryEngine.

Hypothetically speaking lets say the Wii U doesn't support UE4 and after the launch of the Wii U its sales explode. What does Epic do?

Push an updated UE3, like I suggested.

 

[lherre]

lherre, is my view pessimistic or realistic?

Depends on Epic.

 

[axisofweevils]

I think Epic goes back to the drawing board and tries to find a way to force it. If I recall correctly, one much-touted feature of UE4 is its supposed scaleability; this would be a very good test of that claim.

(I have been finding it humorous that so many seem to be writing Nintendo off again. Did they not pay attention this time around? We just don't know..)

It's all part of the Nintendo cycle.

(Found this old image on NeoGAF. It still applies.)

 

[z0m3le]

Thanks lherre, that is what I figured.

I think Epic goes back to the drawing board and tries to find a way to force it. If I recall correctly, one much-touted feature of UE4 is its supposed scaleability; this would be a very good test of that claim.

(I have been finding it humorous that so many seem to be writing Nintendo off again. Did they not pay attention this time around? We just don't know..)

Well no one here believes that claim obviously, if it's tailored for PS4/XB3 but can't run on hardware only 1/3rd as powerful with the same type of architecture in unified shaders and the same supported effects, even at reduced effects/resolution.

 

[BurntPork]

Depends on Epic.

How about my view that Wii U is basically current-gen if it's not capable of running the major next-gen middleware?

 

[MisterHero]

I think Epic goes back to the drawing board and tries to find a way to force it. If I recall correctly, one much-touted feature of UE4 is its supposed scaleability; this would be a very good test of that claim.

(I have been finding it humorous that so many seem to be writing Nintendo off again. Did they not pay attention this time around? We just don't know..)

Instead of just admitting the industry screwed up, some people want to bet double-or-nothing on a less-than-reasonable direction with impossible production standards.

It's too bad double-or-nothing doesn't work if you don't have the money to sustain insane business models

 

[Shadow Hog]

But Epic isn't the only choice for AAA console engines. Crytek is a competitor and many 3rd party publishers have their own in house engines.

Hypothetically speaking lets say the Wii U doesn't support UE4 and after the launch of the Wii U its sales explode. What does Epic do?

Wii didn't support UE3 and after the launch of the Wii its sales exploded. We saw exactly how that turned out. I'd imagine it'd turn out very similarly.

However, the primary reason Wii didn't support UE3 was its complete lack of programmable shaders, was it not? Wii U doesn't have this drawback, and if UE3 scaling back to look kind of like UE2 was any indication, UE4 can probably scale its graphics back enough to look comparable to UE3. Now, the less graphics-intensive things and more CPU/RAM-intensive things, like its fully dynamic lighting or destructible environments - that's a wild card...

 

[magash]

Push an updated UE3, like I suggested.

But then what is the purpose of UE4 if we find ourselves in a situation where the Wii U is the dominant console. I honestly dont know what the hell Epic is thing. For God's sake the UE4 demo runs on a $500+ gpu.

 

[lherre]

Thanks lherre, that is what I figured.



Well no one here believes that claim obviously, if it's tailored for PS4/XB3 but can't run on hardware only 1/3rd as powerful with the same type of architecture in unified shaders and the same supported effects, even at reduced effects/resolution.

Maybe can run (poorly compared with the other Hw) and epic is not interested in supporting this at this moment because they want to sell a big jump over current gent. As I said it depends more on epic than other things. In its vision for UE4.

 

[Izick]

Sunday, we're going to see how the guys on Bonus Round expect Nintendo to do at E3.

How do you guys think it will go down?

Probably interesting, but nothing to look into. I feel like they're not going to give anything significant away, as they're likely under NDA, so it'll just be a tip-toe fest, and be very vague. Still will watch it though, as I like the show.

 

[HylianTom]

Instead of just admitting the industry screwed up, some people want to bet double-or-nothing on a less-than-reasonable direction with impossible production standards.

It's too bad double-or-nothing doesn't work if you don't have the money to sustain insane business models

Reading the new news this morning of MS and Sony being lobbied to increase hardware power levels warms my heart, in an odd way. I'll be very interested in seeing how this turns-out.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

The flipside here is that Epic don't have all the power. They can push for Sony and Microsoft to make the huge leaps they claim they need, and they can lobby the hell out of them, but if Sony and Microsoft - or even one - is reluctant to put more into the machines they're building to satisfy Epic then it could get interesting.

 

[bgassassin]

What I am saying is that developers won't ignore a market they could otherwise easily port to, it in large part matters how well Wii U games sell, but because closed box hardware out performs PCs, the Wii U should be just as capable as something like the HD7770 even if it's only half as powerful... sort of like how you can't get an HD1800xtx to run current 360 games.

If Epic chooses to ignore Wii U, and it has lets say 30% of the market, most developers will just use UE3, or even worse for epic, Crytek 3.4 since that does run on Wii U.

But that's assuming Nintendo took the necessary steps for compatibility for what UE4 might require.

The latter part isn't really confirmed from what I know. We know CE3 runs on Wii U, but not CE 3.4 unless I missed something.

 

[magash]

Wii didn't support UE3 and after the launch of the Wii its sales exploded. We saw exactly how that turned out. I'd imagine it'd turn out very similarly.

UE3 ran and still runs on PC's, HD consoles, smart phones, tablets etc. All of these devices add up to a very large user base. UE4 on the other hand was recently demoed on a $500 gpu. As things stand only the top of the line pc hardware can support UE4. This to me is a very strange business decision.

 

[Izick]

The flipside here is that Epic don't have all the power. They can push for Sony and Microsoft to make the huge leaps they claim they need, and they can lobby the hell out of them, but if Sony and Microsoft - or even one - is reluctant to put more into the machines they're building to satisfy Epic then it could get interesting.

Didn't Microsoft put more RAM in for the Xbox 360 though, due to complaints like these made before?

 

[Shadow Hog]

UE3 ran and still runs on PC's, HD consoles, smart phones, tablets etc. All of these devices add up to a very large user base. UE4 on the other hand was recently demoed on a $500 gpu. As things stand only the top of the line pc hardware can support UE4. This to me is a very strange business decision.

No, only top-of-the-line PC hardware can support UE4 at max settings. We have no idea what its scalability is like, but they're certainly not going to demo it when they're trying to lobby for more power.

 

[BurntPork]

Is there anything else to talk about? When specialguy, Heavy, and Van Owen get on, the thread will be derailed to this topic anyway so we might as well talk about something else. At the very least, we should speculate about whether or not this increases the chances of the other consoles being announced at E3 and stealing Wii U's thunder.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Yeah I saw them. Not really impressed. The particles look awesome but other than that, about the same level as CryEngine 3.4 (No one ever told me if the WiiU could handle 3.4)

You reached the conclusion by watching some pictures?

 

[snowdog1971]

They were working on another project before DKCR and they didn't use the entire (or likely even much) of the team for MK7.
That's like suggesting they shouldn't have been able to release DKCR so soon because of Prime Trilogy.
The game should be in a showable state, if not playable.

I'm expecting it to be released on launch day or during the launch window, and it should be playable at E3 imo. You probably had the team splitting when DKCR was at the Beta stage. Developers often do this in my experience, IO did for Hitman/Kane and Lynch and Crystal Dynamics did for Tomb Raider Legend/Anniversary/Underworld when I was working at Eidos.

I'm confident that we'll see it at launch or during the launch window and equally confident that it's going to be an FPS rather than a TPS. A Halo or Resistance equivalent will be better to attract the hardcore/enthusiast gamer than a Gears equivalent imo. And I think, given their track record with Metroid Prime, that it'll be a sci-fi based shooter. At least I hope so, I love sci-fi stuff!!!

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Didn't Microsoft put more RAM in for the Xbox 360 though, due to complaints like these made before?

I believe they did, yes.

 

[jump_button]

UE4 support good for only one thing that 3rd partys and multi platform games

 

[IdeaMan]

So we can summarize the industry "buzz" nowadays by: Epic/UE4 and social/indie games, right ?

depressing

 

[Shadow Hog]

I'm confident that we'll see it at launch or during the launch window and equally confident that it's going to be an FPS rather than a TPS. A Halo or Resistance equivalent will be better to attract the hardcore/enthusiast gamer than a Gears equivalent imo. And I think, given their track record with Metroid Prime, that it'll be a sci-fi based shooter. At least I hope so, I love sci-fi stuff!!!

Honestly, I'm kind of curious as to whether or not Nintendo will ever have another Goldeneye. Like, not literally, since if you take it at face value then we just had another Goldeneye from Eurocom, but an exclusive killer-app multiplayer FPS that everyone knows, almost everyone loves, and sells the system despite its shortcomings in other areas. Gamecube and Wii have been remarkably light on this front...

 

[BurntPork]

You reached the conclusion by watching some pictures?

You know, it's kinda hard not to think you're trolling when you do that...

 

[Oddduck]

Honestly, I'm kind of curious as to whether or not Nintendo will ever have another Goldeneye. Like, not literally, since if you take it at face value then we just had another Goldeneye from Eurocom, but an exclusive killer-app multiplayer FPS that everyone knows, almost everyone loves, and sells the system despite its shortcomings in other areas. Gamecube and Wii have been remarkably light on this front...

Wasn't there a rumor about a James Bond game coming to Wii ?

 

[Portugeezer]

E3 2012 Nintendo Press Conference |OT| What starts with Wii ends with U.

Just reminded me of TWEWY:

E3 2012 Nintendo Press Conference |OT| The World Ends Wii U.

.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Not sure I've seen this in any patents before - please correct me if I'm wrong. (source)

Seems to demonstrate the "drag-from-TV-to-Upad" feature of the WiiU.

http://www.abload.de/img/wiiu_drag_to_upadytd65.png

…wait, how the hell does it distinguish between whether it's pointing to the sensor strip on the DRC or the sensor bar of the TV? They're just two points of IR light each.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Speaking of UE4and it's dynamic lighting engine, is there any evidence that the lighting layers in Zelda HD demo was prebaked? That's one area I'd like see Wii U keep up with the competition.

 

[Disorientator]

Yup. It makes too much sense - esp. with this patent illustration - for the pad not to act as a mini TV for the Remote. Nintendo love their parlour tricks, and being able to drag and drop something from one screen to another is one they wouldn't pass up. Practical, gameplay use? I can think of some, but I suspect it will be limited but still a neat little feature.

Agreed.

The rest of the patent goes into detail how the whole thing works and it seems that, for such configurations, the user will have to follow the point-WiiMote-towards-center-of-screen process twice, for TV & UPad. ("First Reference attitude" & "Second Reference Attitude")

…wait, how the hell does it distinguish between whether it's pointing to the sensor strip on the DRC or the sensor bar of the TV? They're just two points of IR light each.

I believe using the angle of the WiiMote, relative to each pair of LEDs, they can calculate where each "play area" starts/finishes - or something like that.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

…wait, how the hell does it distinguish between whether it's pointing to the sensor strip on the DRC or the sensor bar of the TV? They're just two points of IR light each.

IIRC, the sensor bar is something like this (where the "O" is a LED):

--O-O------------O-O--

I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to have a slightly different array on the padlet to distinguish the two?

EDIT:

Agreed.

The rest of the patent goes into detail how the whole thing works and it seems that, for such configurations, the user will have to follow the point-WiiMote-towards-center-of-screen process twice, for TV & UPad. ("First reference attitude" & "Second Reference Attitude")

Aah - so it may be using the Remote Plus gyro data primarily, with the LED/camera acting as a kind of backup - that is, the position of the Remote in 3D space will tell it whether it's on one screen or the other, and the LED signal will reinforce that and "tie" the pointer to whichever screen it's aimed at.

 

[IdeaMan]

Agreed.

The rest of the patent goes into detail how the whole thing works and it seems that, for such configurations, the user will have to follow the point-WiiMote-towards-center-of-screen process twice, for TV & UPad. ("First reference attitude" & "Second Reference Attitude")

Yeah clearly, "calibrations" may be involved.

 

[frankie_baby]

IIRC, the sensor bar is something like this (where the "O" is a LED):

--O-O------------O-O--

I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to have a slightly different array on the padlet to distinguish the two?

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the sensor bar had 3 leds each side?

 

[Turrican3]

…wait, how the hell does it distinguish between whether it's pointing to the sensor strip on the DRC or the sensor bar of the TV? They're just two points of IR light each.

Could it be different shape and/or number of LEDs?

Just a very raw guess, I haven't read the patent yet. :-\


EDIT: probably beaten a couple of times XD

 

[MisterHero]

…wait, how the hell does it distinguish between whether it's pointing to the sensor strip on the DRC or the sensor bar of the TV? They're just two points of IR light each.

Like with multiple computer screens and mouses, maybe the game can tell when the edge of the screen has been reached, so it moves the cursor to the other screen, and switches to the Pad sensor.

That would probably mean there are specific schemes that you have to place the pad relative to the TV (right next to it, just below, etc.). Or they can be placed anywhere, once you calibrate them.

 

[ColdBlooder]

Well since my Xbox 360 is about to die a little earlier than i expected, i am a Wii only gamer now.

Could have at least waited till i finished Prototype 2 that unrealiable piece of Bull dodo!

Can't afford another one atm...

The first time a current gen console dies on me. Nintendo console never died on me or not until far into the next generation. And that was only a replaceable power supply from my gamecube. Wich i didnt need thanks to Wiis BC

Another reason for me to go Nintendo only next gen...

 

[Shadow Hog]

Just reminded me of TWEWY:

E3 2012 Nintendo Press Conference |OT| The World Ends Wii U.

.

The entire world groups together and puts an end to the notorious Wii U.

Sorry, but once I saw that interpretation of "The world ends Wii U", it's hard to see anything else.

 

[Vire]

Molyneux Not Impressed With Wii-U

 

[Gahiggidy]

Might be a fun little trick in a golf game where a caddy holds out a ball in the main scream and you pick it up with the pointer and bring it down to the tee shown on the subscreen on the floor.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the sensor bar had 3 leds each side?

It may do - all I remember is that there are a number of LEDs at either end of the bar.

 

[axisofweevils]

Molyneux Not Impressed With Wii-U

IGN's Nintendoom strikes again!

Actually, is that what they stand for?


I Generate Nintendoom

 

[Lyude77]

Might be a fun little trick in a golf game where a caddy holds out a ball in the main scream and you pick it up with the pointer and bring it down to the tee shown on the subscreen on the floor.

Thanks for giving an example. I was having serious difficulty in understanding how it would be useful, but I can kind of see it now.

 

[Disorientator]

Molyneux Not Impressed With Wii-U

Niiiiiice

 

[Shadow Hog]

Molyneux Not Impressed With Wii-U

This is kind of old. I mean, it was in that "E3 @ SpikeTV w/ Molyneux and Kotaku" topic a day or two ago, wasn't it?

 

[Izick]

So wait, if Molyneux says it's bad, then the LAW OF MOLYNEUX means that the exact opposite is true, so...if my calculations are correct...carry the five...it will be good!