They are proper expansions, and why should they wait? That's probably bad for business and the time of announcement doesn't actually affect you in any way.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Witcher 3 Expansion Pass announced - $25
- Thread starter Sn4ke_911
- Start date
They are proper expansions, and why should they wait? That's probably bad for business and the time of announcement doesn't actually affect you in any way.
Furfuryl Furforate
Banned
but Undead Nightmare still was touted DLC.
Anyways, there are 2 issues I have, besides the free DLC crap I never gave two shits about because a) I knew it would be insignificant and b) I don't buy crappy DLC anymore.
Those being.
- Selling an expansion pass as well as selling it before the game's actual release
- Making it sound like there's a difference between DLC and expansion, let's see if they'll even get a retail release and offer more than just new content but also new features.
For one there've been many great DLC that didn't see the need to tout themselves expansions so what makes TW3 special.
Secondly can anyone name a single game which had actual expansions of "yesteryear that had not one but two of those announced before the game released.
Lastly Expansion/Season passes are a horrible value proposition that should just die, the only way anyone should ever buy one is if there's a great sale or if at least 1 DLC is out and then only if the Season Pass comes with a discount. Selling those with prerelease hype still about is to me very condemnable.
I've started playing on PC so I know what an expansion was and I play on consoles so I know what shitty DLC are.
What other games have DLC with that much content in it though? Skyrim maybe and I actually would call the bigger additions expansions (they are in fact sold seperately in retail).
I can see your point but I guess it comes down to what you define as an expansion. In the end it'll depend on the quality of the game and the extra content. I doubt there will be a lot of complaints if both turn out well and the DLC/expansions have enough meaningful content to them but if not then you're obviously right. I personally won't buy the expansion pass in advance because how am I to know if I even want to play more of the game before I have even started it. I liked Dragon Age Inquisition but have absolutely zero interest in the DLC they put out. Maybe it'll be the same with W3 and maybe not.
I do not, however, have an issue with them announcing it before the game is out nor with the pricing given what the DLC is supposed to be. It is still my decision if or when to buy it.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
No I blame this on CDPR the definition of DLC in the console space didn't change over night it's been that way for years.
I don't blame them for doing so since they were trying to re stoke or keep interest on the title each time they were interviewed but perhaps they should be more mindful on saying something that may end up making them look like hypocrites due to how their views clashes with the views of the market they are selling to.
I certainly don't care at this moment but it certainly was a nice opportunity of discussion to see how a Developer's point of view doesn't match what customers view and how PC players can say their is a difference between DLC and a Expansion but most Console players feel that their isn't a difference anymore.
Undead Nightmare was sold in retail as its own standalone thing. If that's not an expansion I don't know what is.
From their point of view it isn't hypocrisy, they are a PC based developer, so they think like one and it isn't their fault that the console market acts like it was beaten with the DLC stick.
Every time they made those statements very few people moaned that there was no difference between the two?
Had people been so sure that no distinction was necessary, wouldn't somebody have complained before?
GregSequential
Neo Member
Edited to remove my salt
I don't recall them *ever* attacking more substantial packs (people pulling crap out of their ass?). Anybody with any common sense is able to distinguish the two, especially when the company has constantly defined the differences.
It doesn't matter what you believe the definition is, if they clearly stated what's what for the past several years.
You're simply wrong.
Now, announcing (and selling?) a seaons pass before the games comes out is lame and not something I would've expected from CDPR.
The Red Wizard
Member
Console gamers never experienced that distinction before. It's been shown that, in interviews, CDPR distinguished small pieces of free DLC from bigger pieces that would cost money. Misleading titles by article writers and wrong interpretations by readers and writers aren't the fault of CDPR.
Furfuryl Furforate
Banned
so where DLC packs for a couple games and literally every GoTY edition.
Also that wasn't what I meant, Rockstar didn't call it an expansion.
We don't even have confirmation the TW3 expansions will hit retail.
You know what, I give up. Evolve is your dream game and you're not even interested in The Witcher III. I don't argue with fanboys because they just want to be emotional and not rational. You keep trying to compare multiplayer and singleplayer and you somehow keep saying that Evolve with all of its DLC, costing US$ 120+ is the same thing of TW3 with all of its DLC and expansions for US$ 60. I'm not comparing regional pricing here. Also, I don't have to prove which games I've worked on just to satisfy your bizarre need of comparing MP and SP. So no, I won't argue with you anymore. I have more things to worry about in my life than someone who thinks it's important to prove that his dream game is better than one he's not interested in. Goodbye.
Well the previous EE model was free for everyone who owned the game before and the same price as the main game, replacing it completely, for new users. However, if that's the case, then the expansions won't be included. It's hard to predict what they will do in this case. They never did a GOTY Edition before. Maybe they won't do an EE (as an official name) this time and instead just keep releasing everything on the base game, inevitably releasing one edition with everything included for the same price as the main game. But they can only do this right if they wait a few months after the second expansion is released next year. It's hard to know because there's no precedent. It's the first time they are doing full-fledged expansions by their own definition. But if I were to guess, they will release something like a GOTY Edition next year because the publishers will ask for it. However, if we consider the expansions as part of it and the last one will be released in Q1 2016, the new edition would have to launch in Q3 or Q4. That if they don't announce new expansions.
So to sum up, we can't know for sure now what's their plan in terms of new editions next year.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
I'm pretty sure there would have been huge backslash even then, people accusing them selling them half of a game, withholding content to get more money. You can't really do it "right", since so many seems to be burned for some dlc-practices that have happened lately. So many add this to same pool, like they want to get angry without even trying to really understand what they are offering here.
Why in the world is that weird? Even in normal development, the last months the game is already content locked and a lot of the work is squashing bugs. That means there are a lot of people on the team just sitting around. What are the creatives doing while the tech team is squashing bugs? Well, with these expansion packs, they got to start that. Without the expansion packs... they don't have a job.
Why? I don't get why people want this. Don't you want to be informed? Don't you want more information available to you? Why are so many gamers sitting here saying they'd rather they withhold information for a few months for... reasons?
Lil'DigiOp
Member
Gamers got serious problems yo... And the community wonders why we get no type of respect from companies.
This isn't a major issue. Its written clear as day, but the lack of reading comprehension is ruining everything.
CDPR announced a full season pass, what you're getting with it. Sizable content for a modest price. Things that gamers complained about not seeing from various different devs, and now CDPR is getting shit for it too...
This isn't a major issue. Its written clear as day, but the lack of reading comprehension is ruining everything.
CDPR announced a full season pass, what you're getting with it. Sizable content for a modest price. Things that gamers complained about not seeing from various different devs, and now CDPR is getting shit for it too...
Say we stick with everything is DLC definition. The devs have stated that they don't like DLC for minor content. That is it. Hence the horse armor jokes etc.
This is major content DLC and they have gone on record that this is the kind of paid DLC that they consider worthwhile.
Edit: I can't believe this needs to be posted on another page, again.
They've been saying it for years, not their fault you didn't know.
Why is stating their plans for the game ahead of time worse than to keeping you in the dark until after release?
Wouldn't having that knowledge give you the opportunity to make a more informed initial purchase decision? Would you really feel better if they kept this secret, you bought the game, and then find out there is more? I'm reluctant to use the phrase "ignorance is bliss" here because of the negative connotation, but it seems to apply to a lot of the complaints. Couldn't you argue that not telling you about additional content plans until after you purchase the main game be considered more deceptive (even though I don't think it necessarily is)?
The feeling I get from a lot of complaints is that people don't like feeling that they're somehow missing out if content comes out later and they don't want to/can't buy it. So they get upset about it and knowing this earlier makes people upset earlier. It doesn't seem very rational to me.
I have no problem with any of this, based on everything we know now.
- Price is reasonable
- Based on their description, it sounds like a lot of content
- Based on their description, it doesn't sound like this was ripped from the main game to be sold later. Also, since some of it isn't coming until 2016, it sounds like there's a lot of work left to go on it, so it couldn't have come with the main game.
- As many people have pointed out, it's consistent with what their message has been up to now regarding DLC and expansions.
Having said that, I'm certainly not going to pre-order it. This wouldn't be the first time that a game is well received, but its DLC/expansion content isn't up to snuff (such as very recently with Shadow of Mordor).
- Price is reasonable
- Based on their description, it sounds like a lot of content
- Based on their description, it doesn't sound like this was ripped from the main game to be sold later. Also, since some of it isn't coming until 2016, it sounds like there's a lot of work left to go on it, so it couldn't have come with the main game.
- As many people have pointed out, it's consistent with what their message has been up to now regarding DLC and expansions.
Having said that, I'm certainly not going to pre-order it. This wouldn't be the first time that a game is well received, but its DLC/expansion content isn't up to snuff (such as very recently with Shadow of Mordor).
Furfuryl Furforate
Banned
that has never been my issue, I even specifically said so in the comment that was partially quoted
Yep, they cut content and moved it to 2016, fuck logic.
GotY editions include the main game and not necessarily meaty extra content, more often than not it's just a collection of smaller bits.
Besides, it doesn't matter if Rockstar called it an expansion or not, going by the understanding CD Projekt has of what an expansion is (which they've stated multiple times over the years) Undead Nightmare would count, so would the bigger Skyrim stuff. They called out overpriced DLC that doesn't offer a lot of content or value in the past, which there is a lot of as we know. I don't see why they shouldn't, they have a spotless track record so far. They never changed their narrative about what paid DLC should and shouldn't be. If you're sceptical of their promises which, again, is a valid point then just wait and see.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
These guys are awesome. They definitely say the right things and I hope their game is as good as they make out it is.
Pre-ordered TW3 and if I enjoy it I'll be buying the expansion too.
Pre-ordered TW3 and if I enjoy it I'll be buying the expansion too.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
Gucci Messiah
Banned
I wouldn't say this is a case of cut content; they just kept working on the game after finishing the complete $60 version you'll get in stores.
Let's be clear, I don't think it's a huge deal and CDPR has earned enough goodwill with me that I don't really mind this particular announcement.
It's just my general aversion against companies selling future content even before the actual game is out. Nowadays, people are prone to prematurely pre-order just about everything and I don't think that's healthy for the industry.
edit: I'm definitely not in the THEY CUT STUFF FROM THE MAIN GAME camp.
Lol, at this point it should just become a GAF meme. I think some people only get informed by just reading Thread title hence the confusion.
Dalibor_San
Member
This is what DLC should be,not the nickel and dime that most companies are doing these days, I probably wont be touching the DLC anyway until I finish the game and see if I want more of the same or not.
Sorry, by "you" I did not mean that to be specifically addressing you. Your post just got me thinking about the general averse reaction to announcing future plans before the game is out in general.
Potentially a dev could be deceitful, truly cut content, sit on it secretly for months, then announce it after the game is out. Some people might not be upset about it because it wasn't announced early, but wouldn't that be worse?
Personally, I think they're being clear about their plans, and I think that's good. I'd rather know than not.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Given their history most fans are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt but we been burned too many times by the AAA industry on matters that involve post launch DLC so I don't blame people for having a sour taste in their mouth or their first reaction being that it was cut content.
There is nothing special, and it shouldn't be special. But there are a great many companies selling BS nickel-and-dime DLC (or bundling in with special deals). They said they weren't interested in that kind of stuff.
As many have said, the reason they announce this stuff early is so that it retains mindshare especially when the expansions are released a long time after the main game. They have to sell this stuff (as they are a business) and if some people are able to take their quoted value proposition at face value, fine. Otherwise, as they say themselves, wait for it to be released.
Imagine if they only announced the expansions at or near release. You'd then get people moaning that they should have announced it earlier as "I would have waited for GOTY because otherwise the game isn't complete, waaahh".
thewhitehawk
Member
I have no issue with them charging for this additional content but I have an issue with the price. They claimed the Witcher 3 had over 200+ hours of quest content and the game costs €50.
They've claimed the main quest takes about 50 hours to complete, which would leave the expansion pass looking a bit more desirable, but I still find excessively expensive under the presumption that this expansion pass won't add 50% more content. It seems to be of very poor value for a game most of us haven't experienced yet.
I like CDPR but I don't like this business practice.
They've claimed the main quest takes about 50 hours to complete, which would leave the expansion pass looking a bit more desirable, but I still find excessively expensive under the presumption that this expansion pass won't add 50% more content. It seems to be of very poor value for a game most of us haven't experienced yet.
I like CDPR but I don't like this business practice.
Sadly this is the norm with most added content that doesn't add some major mechanics rebalances and overhauls into a game. In fact, in most cases, the relative value proposition is much much much worse than this. I suppose the smaller, more concentrated target audience (thus less sales) versus lowered development costs due to ready engine and some assets, do not weigh the scales in players' favor when it comes to price.
CDProjektRED might turn this into a good deal yet, but we'll have to see.
TheAssist
Member
So much discussion for such a small thing. I guess it just comes to show how up in arms people are about DLC and post release content in general. Good work gaming industry, you did it! Short sighted decisions are always the best decisions.
But in this case its quite easy I think, no?
The reason he says it now is because the games exposure is at its all time high, it probably wont get bigger any time soon. People just read "The Wi..." and click on the article.
So, naturally they use that consumer behavior to spread their very clear message:
"Hey guys, we have two expansions in the making. They are actual expansions not just DLC (he clearly explains that in the press release, nor reaons to go up in flames about it). You can buy them with a season pass. Now or later or never. "
The time of the announcement should no matter. I know its because we have been burnt before, but in this case I dont see the downside of waiting. They dont force you to buy it without ever having played the game just to get a discount oder ingame nonsense (or have I missed that?). Again they use the high exposure, I dont think its a marketing fail, its more of clever use of hype. Its not their fault that other companies have fucked up. And if they screw it up, well you just shouldnt have preordered it then.
So just look at it for what it is. An announcement. Of content. For later. Much later.
But in this case its quite easy I think, no?
The reason he says it now is because the games exposure is at its all time high, it probably wont get bigger any time soon. People just read "The Wi..." and click on the article.
So, naturally they use that consumer behavior to spread their very clear message:
"Hey guys, we have two expansions in the making. They are actual expansions not just DLC (he clearly explains that in the press release, nor reaons to go up in flames about it). You can buy them with a season pass. Now or later or never. "
The time of the announcement should no matter. I know its because we have been burnt before, but in this case I dont see the downside of waiting. They dont force you to buy it without ever having played the game just to get a discount oder ingame nonsense (or have I missed that?). Again they use the high exposure, I dont think its a marketing fail, its more of clever use of hype. Its not their fault that other companies have fucked up. And if they screw it up, well you just shouldnt have preordered it then.
So just look at it for what it is. An announcement. Of content. For later. Much later.
30h of new content is hardly in the same league as your typical map 15$ map pack or a small, few hours long side mission. I can appreciate a substantial expansion pack style dlc. They're also coming at a later date so it is very unlikely that it's cut content from the main game but sold separately. If the base game proves to be good enough then I'm down for this.
>-Baron-Spamedi-<
Member
I'm not opposed per se, as long as the content offers reasonable value for money.
However, I'll never pay up front for an expansion pass again.
Thanks Bungie.
However, I'll never pay up front for an expansion pass again.
Thanks Bungie.
Denton
Member
This is the most reasonable stance, even if I personally have CDP as one exception where I am willing to buy stuff before release.
The games been content complete since December and been in QA and removing bugs for 5 months, but its easier to come do a shitpost without reading anything or being informed.
Furfuryl Furforate
Banned
Even with CDPR I doubt these expansions will be like of the old days, 2 for 25$ seems just too low for that. If they can deliver on the expectations that are set by their words it would be amazing but I with my scepticism paired with my expectations am disappointed they are selling them in a season pass.
If I didn't hate Season Passes with a passion I'd probably buy it the second it was announced and might end up either not enjoying the game and or the DLC.
I realize they are a business but that is also part of the point, they always tried to distance themselves from the practices of the industry and them now doing a season pass and selling it prerelease is a sad testament of them not being immune to it.
Same with the extra physical stuff for the XBO CE (which I have preordered anyway).
Gamers aren't patient absolving them of a bad business practice just because people can wait is misguided. Look at Destiny, how many regret buying that season pass (Not saying the game nor the expansions will be bad) .
Look they could have just announced the expansions during E3, they should have had more than enough time to get a cinematic trailer ready for it and given them a prime slot at E3's MS conference given their partnership.
Possible Bloodborne dialouge spoilers i guess, even though its not 100% accurate dialouge"
Consumer: "How dare you stand by your definitions of the last 4 years"
CDPR: "Oh no, no, no. Doubt me not sweet compeer. What is friendship but a mere chance encounter?"
*recieve beg for life gesture*
CDPR: "in fact heres a little gift to prove it"
*recieve 16 free small DLC*
Consumer: "...." *swings weapon*
CDPR: "ahh.. that was uncharitabily done... that was uncharitabily done, dear friend..."
CDPR: "Oh no, no, no. Doubt me not sweet compeer. What is friendship but a mere chance encounter?"
*recieve beg for life gesture*
CDPR: "in fact heres a little gift to prove it"
*recieve 16 free small DLC*
Consumer: "...." *swings weapon*
CDPR: "ahh.. that was uncharitabily done... that was uncharitabily done, dear friend..."
Yes, i posted this in the right thread.
This^
Don't get me wrong, I love when games get new content, but announcing them before the game's even released is just shitty. I get that the team has tons of time to work on expansions whenever the game goes gold or whatever, and that's fine, make expansions. But don't announce them before the game is even on store shelves.
The truth is that there are just some business realities that even the most friendly of businesses must bend to -- one of those things being consumer tendencies. The best time to sell some DLC to people is when interest in your game is at its peak. Post launch, your product bleeds interest and people stop caring, especially single player DLC. So if you are already committed to releasing such a thing there no reason to hold back.
Just look at GTA. Its one of the biggest franchises in the entire industry, their DLC episodes had full blown marketing campaigns backing them up and still sales were not where they wanted them to be.
http://www.1up.com/news/gta4-dlc-sold-expected
Feeroper
Member
Why though? It isnt hurting anyone. This is an expansion pack, and this now tells us that the team is dedicated to further supporting this product beyond release. This now means that for people picking this up on release day, they will be less inclined to trade the title in a couple weeks later after getting though all the content, because they know they have additional content on the way.
This outrage over DLC has gotten out of hand in my opinion. I do get irritated when piddly content is locked out behind dlc that really could have been in the proper game at release, but more and more we are seeing these season's passes which is a better idea I think. If you are so inclined you can be assured to get all the upcoming dlc usually at a discounted price. Maybe it might not be good, but surely as a reasoning human being, you know that possability exists and if it is too risky for you than dont go for it.
It seems unnusual to not like season pass announcements prior to a games release just because the game isnt yet out. I dont see the reasoning behind disliking this, and it seems more to be a case of, this didnt used to happen, and i dont like change.
This is the day and age we live in now where developers will have a season pass or whatever ready to go at launch. I dont think there is any harm as we can always decide if it is worhtwhile, or if we dont agree with the principle of it, if you suspect you are being fleeced.
As others have also angrily pointed out, they will now wait for an inevitable GotY edition for $20. The thing is though that that is a completely viable option too! no need to be upset about it. Lots of people do this in general in order to cut cost down. Some games drop in price mere months or even weeks after release. If you dont see the value in paying full price at the launch of the game when the hype and fervour is at its peak, then that is your right and there is nothing wrong with that.
Anyhow, we have come a long way from Horse Armour, and I for one appreciate this approach. I trust CDPR to deliver the goods on this, especially when evoking the glory days of the expansion pack. It is all kinda rolled into one now, and it is funny to see people just throw the DLC term around all the time for everything. I suspect alot of the outrage comes from some folks experience with expansion packs from yesteryear (or lack of experience) and the muddled definition of what constitutes DLC these days, along with general negative attitude towards DLC, which is sometimes adopted in order to be part of the trend or genuinely felt.
Just my little rant on the subject.
This, this, this.
So many people have a problem with the timing of the announcement. So they want developers to just lie and withhold information?
Makes no sense to me. Why don't you want to know as much as possible about a 60 dollar purchase?
You only have to look at how much outrage there was at Capcom's SFxTK or RE5 DLC, or, more recently, Turtlerock's Evolve DLC, to see how differently CDPR is treated.