If it had better button placement it would had been really good.It's time to bring back the true GOAT controller.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Thurrott: MS to announce a new standard Xbox controller and maybe Xbox Elite at E3
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
- Status
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
A slim version of the xbox one?Seriously?What are they thinking in ms?Just launch a new xbox or a upgraded model of the xbox one more powerful not a slim version.
I'm still of the mind that if you're taking the time to change the console for any reason, it's a waste of money not to upgrade the components when you're making changes. I get why they didn't do much with the 360 besides adding HDMI, wireless networking and a different hard drive, but with the Xbox One being built on a platform (Windows 10) that is designed around being scalable, they absolutely should be putting new and better hardware in the box hat makes sense for the $349-399 price and dropping the current SKU to $249-299. If they really plan on embracing the idea of no more generational cliffs, I would hope their first revision of the console included some new hardware.
3rdamention
Member
I know that Phil and MS are getting a lot of respect for being so tight lipped and having leaks locked down. From the hardware perspective, it could simply be, where there is no smoke, there is no fire.
I am not saying that there is no chance MS doesn't announce new hardware, such as an upgraded or slim console, It could happen, sure. But there is the chance that they don't have anything to reveal at this E3.
If something doesn't leak, and they reveal a new revised console of some type (upgraded or slim) I would be quite impressed they could keep it so tight lipped. This stuff (hardware) normally leaks at some point. With hardware, you have company employees, manufactoring factories, FCC filings, trademark filings, developers, publishers and more and any of them could leak information about new hardware before the info is intended to be released. In my opinion, if something is going to be revealed, it will get leaked in some way before E3.
Games are a different story. You dont have so many parties involved. We get surprises every year.
I am not saying that there is no chance MS doesn't announce new hardware, such as an upgraded or slim console, It could happen, sure. But there is the chance that they don't have anything to reveal at this E3.
If something doesn't leak, and they reveal a new revised console of some type (upgraded or slim) I would be quite impressed they could keep it so tight lipped. This stuff (hardware) normally leaks at some point. With hardware, you have company employees, manufactoring factories, FCC filings, trademark filings, developers, publishers and more and any of them could leak information about new hardware before the info is intended to be released. In my opinion, if something is going to be revealed, it will get leaked in some way before E3.
Games are a different story. You dont have so many parties involved. We get surprises every year.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
For those wondering why we're not getting leaks out of Microsoft, it's because Microsoft went into psychopathic ultra lockdown after ntkrnl. No one had any inkling about backwards compatibility. That should give you some idea.
While I'm no insider by any stretch, I do chat with a guy in a non-gaming division of Microsoft who told me the ntkrnl leak was
A) not intentional
B) taken very very seriously
They've locked down hard ever since (on stuff they truly want to lock down on).
While I'm no insider by any stretch, I do chat with a guy in a non-gaming division of Microsoft who told me the ntkrnl leak was
A) not intentional
B) taken very very seriously
They've locked down hard ever since (on stuff they truly want to lock down on).
I have heard something very similar from a friend who works on Windows Phone. Not just the gaming division but every department has cracked down hard to avoid leaks. Hell, Surface Book came out of nowhere.
I dont see a reason for MS to upgrade the Xbox right now. If Sonys rumours are true, and the Neo is 2.5x more powerful than the PS4, the XNext would need a monumental leap to achieve parity. And parity is the bare minimum.
So im pretty sure MS is going to keep the internals (expect new hdmi standard for 4k video and thats about it) on a new Xbox Slim, do battle on the price 249, then 199 by fall 2017).
Next year, though, they will bring out the big guns and leap forward with the Next, ahead of the Neo.
So im pretty sure MS is going to keep the internals (expect new hdmi standard for 4k video and thats about it) on a new Xbox Slim, do battle on the price 249, then 199 by fall 2017).
Next year, though, they will bring out the big guns and leap forward with the Next, ahead of the Neo.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
For what it's worth, Microsoft have locked down so hard that rumours are swirling from WITHIN the company. My brother works in retail and his Microsoft rep was telling him that currently, the rumours going around within Microsoft are that the upgraded Xbox is real and it will be more powerful than Neo.
But as I said, I'm not saying we should believe that. I'm trying to illustrate how much Microsoft have locked down since 2014. Even their own staff swirl rumours around within the company.
TheFurizzlyBear
Member
Reps know dick all most the time. I enjoy talking to em whenever they come in but most the time they dont know much before anybody else.
It's time to bring back the true GOAT controller.
Would it have to sink from the ceiling like the Forza car last year?
Art Vandilay
Member
Damn
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Well ask yourself how much major stuff has leaked since then.
ReCore?
Backwards compatibility?
Sea of Thieves?
Not much is getting out. We sometimes get vague-ish stuff like Elite controller but the Elite console came out of nowhere. Not sure what MS are doing different now, but whatever it is, they're masters at keeping stuff secret compared to 2 years ago.
Steelyuhas
Member
Even when they launch a new Xbox, there are still going to release a new verison of the Xbox One that brings the cost of manufacturing the box down.
SpartanN92
Banned
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'm amazed people still think that was an intentional leak.
Why in fucks name would Microsoft intentionally leak their entire reveal schedule for 2014 at the start of that year?
The way my guy spoke to me, I got the impression shit got fucked up within Microsoft over that leak. He told me "They won't tell anyone anything anymore". Lol. This guy is also in a position where kinda needs to know stuff in advance and they stopped telling him shit ha ha.
jeff_rigby
Banned
That's (HDMI 2 and HDCP 2.2) already in the Launch XB1 and PS4. HDCP 2.0 was developed in 2008, 2.1 was found to be vulnerable and 2.2 was developed in 2012. HDCP 2.2 has been in a ARM Trustzone TEE for streaming DRM like Miracast since 2012 and in 2013 it was mapped to a HDMI port. It's still in the TEE and talks to the HDMI chip through two line serial communications ports, encryption of the video occurs in the TEE as required by the movie industry and the same HDCP 2.2 code is also used for DTCP-IP and Miracast (in the TEE) as well as HDMI 2 Multi-view which treats the LAN port like a HDMI port as far as the customer is concerned. Same for DLNA, RVU and Vidipath (2012 or later Smart TVs with Playready, the PS3, XB1 and PS4) on the Source or Input Menu.
Sony in letters to Developers is mentioning HDMI 2's two video streams with their own audio for multi-player games on Launch PS4s increasing to 4 (possibly 1080P) views on NEO which is NOT a HDMI 2 standard at least not at this time but a 4k TV has the resolution and the HDMI 2 port can support it. The XB1 will support HEVC encode and decode for Skype and Skype 3D (HEVC Multi-view plus depth) and Game streaming, we don't know what the PS4 Launch ARM Southbridge can support beyond decoding HEVC profile 10 multi-view plus depthmap which is required for UHD Capable. UHD media is delivered as IP using HTML 5 so a full HTML5 browser is part of the requirement for UHD Capable.
There are other ways to get information like Letters to the EU energy board (April 2015) have the following released last month:
1) UHD Capable released in 2013 (XB1 and PS4) will be firmware updated in 2016
2) Third tier starts in 2017 with 20 watt less Navigation mode (This is likely the PS4 NEO and a XB1 revision)
3) Tier 4 starts in 2019 mentioned but no information volunteered. (XB1 and PS4 revision or a PS5 XB2?)
Polaris 10 can use GDDR5 late 2016 130 Watt TDP less than $299 retail. The PS4 can use this but the XB1 with ARM in the APU can't. XB1 will have to wait till late 2017 for Vega with HBM2 (looks like 50% more performance at 130 Watt TDP so 6 TF instead of the PS4 Neo 4.x). Tier 4 would likely be both using Navi in 2019 and the differences between the consoles disappear.
The above is part of the AMD 25X APU improvement in energy efficiency by 2020 = decreasing TDP for the same TF which translates into the ability to have larger more powerful GPUs and CPUs at the same TDP. Part of this energy efficiency increase is due to code changes so a PS4 Launch game unmodified will still draw as much power minus hardware efficiencies.
PS4 = 1.8, 4, 10 TF @ 130 watts TDP (guess) Late 2016 or early 2017
XB1 = 1.3, 6, 10 TF @ 130 watts TDP (wild guess) Late 2017.....
In my opinion Microsoft for sure and likely Sony will not announce a new console at E3. For Sony it might kill sales of 2015 versions of the PS4 and it's way too early for Microsoft to announce a new version coming late 2017. I also believe Launch versions will not be manufactured after the new consoles are selling provided the costs are similar which I think rumors have supported for the PS4 NEO.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Why not? When PS4 Neo comes, XboxOne games will even look more bad in comparison to their Neo counterpart. Microsoft will do something. The only question is WHEN.
If all we get at E3 this year is a slimmer Xbone whilst Sony reveal the Neo then that is bad for MS.
They should release a slim Xbox one with the current spec. And a beefed up Xbox One.5 the same size as the current model.
A slim xbox is boring. Does anyone really care about size anymore? Whilst it's big, It's hardly huge. Can easily be hidden away.
They should release a slim Xbox one with the current spec. And a beefed up Xbox One.5 the same size as the current model.
A slim xbox is boring. Does anyone really care about size anymore? Whilst it's big, It's hardly huge. Can easily be hidden away.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Two new xboxen. One slim. One more powerful for 2017.
Very true but this is a different situation, this is mid generation hardware refresh (new to Microsoft, new to the industry). Something like this requires a lot more individuals and developers, someone is bound to leak something of this scale.
Someone leaked Sea of Thieves on here (well, they said Rare was working on a pirate game) but I think that was before ntkrnl, and they leaked Rare Replay in the last 30 mins before E3.
Agree tho, MS has shit on lockdown. Judging by Major Nelsons tweets a few days before E3, I don't think even he knew about BC. He said something about him just seeing something that made him go "holy shit"
MilkyJoe
Member
Need to know and maybe a bonus of some kind?
MS is as water-tight as a ducks arsehole right now.
Being paid to keep quiet? Imagine that.
MilkyJoe
Member
There's only one real incentive in business...
FantasticMrSnake
Member
Xbox360one ?
If it's a nice price drop in the elite controller I'm in (like 60% less)
If it's a nice price drop in the elite controller I'm in (like 60% less)
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Oh that's interesting. I guess there's still a chance then. But believing that MS might just wait a little longer, see how people respond to a new PS4 isn't too far fetched I think. It wouldn't surprise me if it's indeed just a slim model of Xbox One and they will put a nice price on, so that people who don't have Xbox yet, will get it for the upcoming exclusives. That's possible. At this point we don't even know for sure if Sony will announce the new PS4 at E3, I wonder if MS even knows. It would surprise me if Sony stays silent about a new console during E3 though. Especially since if that September release date is legit.
But who knows, as someone here said before,maybe MS actually pays folks to stay silent about things and that would mean the little info we have, which says nothing about better hardware was done intentionally. Besides, why would Phil even bring it up early this year if nothing was planned for the same year? MS would actually be the one to mention it, but it would only be Sony that didn't officially say something yet, that will release something this year? Kinda odd.
Soon we will know.
I personally don't believe that wouldn't happen. MS would perform their own focus group research and in all fairness, may have judged consumer reaction by Phil Spencer hinting at it, with the comments in here about being tight lipped. For them to create a more powerful model based upon PS4k's reaction would be such a slow turn around, and if it was received poorly, they wouldn't ditch a project which they will of spend huge R&D costs on.
This idea will of been signed off and decided on their roadmap a long time ago, if it was to happen.
I think its best to accept a new console is not coming this year.
It just doesn't make sense, business-wise.
This fall your gonna have people looking to get the neo, and then right after the holidays is the nx release in march 2017. Taking nx out the picture, do you really expect MS to drop a new upgraded console around the same time frame as the neo? Hell no. Yeah I get a bunch of people all over the internet want to see a new upgraded device within the year, but it makes no sense to go head to head with the competitor that's been kicking your ass with the same product.
If they wait just one year they get:
- a full holiday to themselves
- the ability to release the console after W10 has been fully integrated
- the ability to market this console as a full upgrade rather than a half step, just with forward compatibility with X1
- to see the reaction to the neo and nx, and the information seeing these launch can give
- access to newer technology that might be cheaper or better by next year
With all that said, I just don't see how it makes sense for people to want MS to drop their console this year. Sounds more and more like you wanna see MS go tit for tat with Sony in a game they don't have a good chance of winning. The only reasoning I'm hearing that makes sense is that "they will look bad having the weakest console out" and this doesn't overrule the reasons I listed because:
-they already look bad no matter what they do, this console is just bad juju.
-a fresh start will have much more impact than a half step with slightly different naming
- and? Drop a cheaper version at E3 this year and take the place of the cheap home console for now, a 199$ price could do wonders
With all that said, I really hope they just focus 100% on games at E3 this year. That's what they should be focusing on.
It just doesn't make sense, business-wise.
This fall your gonna have people looking to get the neo, and then right after the holidays is the nx release in march 2017. Taking nx out the picture, do you really expect MS to drop a new upgraded console around the same time frame as the neo? Hell no. Yeah I get a bunch of people all over the internet want to see a new upgraded device within the year, but it makes no sense to go head to head with the competitor that's been kicking your ass with the same product.
If they wait just one year they get:
- a full holiday to themselves
- the ability to release the console after W10 has been fully integrated
- the ability to market this console as a full upgrade rather than a half step, just with forward compatibility with X1
- to see the reaction to the neo and nx, and the information seeing these launch can give
- access to newer technology that might be cheaper or better by next year
With all that said, I just don't see how it makes sense for people to want MS to drop their console this year. Sounds more and more like you wanna see MS go tit for tat with Sony in a game they don't have a good chance of winning. The only reasoning I'm hearing that makes sense is that "they will look bad having the weakest console out" and this doesn't overrule the reasons I listed because:
-they already look bad no matter what they do, this console is just bad juju.
-a fresh start will have much more impact than a half step with slightly different naming
- and? Drop a cheaper version at E3 this year and take the place of the cheap home console for now, a 199$ price could do wonders
With all that said, I really hope they just focus 100% on games at E3 this year. That's what they should be focusing on.
Tntnico
Member
Well, they have a really good lineup for this fall, do you think people will get a Xbox One if Sony drops Neo this holiday ? They will see a more powerful competitor, and know that a new Xbox One is arount the corner, that's not a good position to drive hardware sales.
MilkyJoe
Member
On the other hand Neo heralds the beginning of the end of console generations - It's over. The generation has ended and the new model will be the same as iPhone.
If MS wait another year or more that give Sony a shit ton of time to suck up all the business Marketing Neo as;
3 x the power of xbox one
Back wards forwards compatible
The only console with VR
The above may well
Make Neo the no brainer choice for new business
Poach Xbox One owners
Removal of generations will increase likelihood that customers will stick with current choice as their library will still work with the next console release.
I don't think MS have the luxury of a 1 or 2 year or more time-out.
But that's just how I see it.
get2sammyb
Member
I agree with parts of what you say, but I also don't think prematurely beginning a new generation next year makes a whole lot of sense either. They'll be starting from scratch in terms of install base against a PS4 with a gigantic install base at that point. Their "new" box will undoubtedly be more expensive than the PS4, but it'll always be held back by Sony's system because third-parties aren't going to ditch the industry leader any time soon.
They'll also have to deal with the bad press that comes from replacing a system so early, they need to switch all of their projects over to the new box so that they have a good launch lineup for it, and they still need to overcome their global image issues which - let's be honest - is the real problem that the Xbox One's facing.
I just don't think pushing reset so quickly is the solution people are looking for.
It certainly seems like there won't be an upgraded box this year. Which makes the fact that Phil talked about an upgraded box at the beginning of this year so vexing. Why on earth would he broach the subject if it wasn't going to come to fruition at least in the same year. So strange.
MilkyJoe
Member
Generations have finished, it's not a reset, no more so than Neo is to PS4.
No one knows shit, MS is locked down completely.
The people interested in this falls line up either already own an Xbox, or have no interest in getting one at its current price.
Which is why taking advantage of the "cheap console" position by dropping a slim model with a price reduction would be the best thing to do for now.
And despite what you hear on forums, the common customer has no idea an successor might be coming next year, and on top of that, forward compatibility would address that issue if they did.
Again, I'm not hearing any actual reasons for dropping upgraded hardware this year besides wanting them to step in a ring with Sony and try to go toe to toe, when they should be far more focused on uniting W10 and Xbox and getting games on their platform that make people want to get their system, as those problems exist no matter what they do hardware wise.
I personally don't think we'll see a new xbox unless they start releasing new consoles every 2 years or something. If they rely on Windows 10, they could do whatever they want with hardware. We'll see what they do but I think I'm now more interested what they do software wise with Cortana and such to differentiate the console from the PC. That's going to be more telling than just the hardware spec bump. There's only but so much you can do with hardware, but software has more possibilities.
If this is the case and they do have hardware releasing this year, I can't imagine any games releasing this year other than first party making use of any additional power, since they don't know anything about it.
gaming_noob
Member
One of the Sony insiders speculated (or hinted?) that MS wasn't prepared for the PS4K and may in fact be far behind on their next console/1.5. That is more reasonable than thinking MS' ship is leak proof.
PR? Sony's ahead of them on the push. Let everyone know you're in it too while you get beat to the punch.
So MS found out about the PS4K before the public and Phil starts talking about upgrading consoles(once again before the PS4K info leaked) mid gen in order to seem like they aren't behind?
MilkyJoe
Member
Again, you are speculating no one knows anything about it, No one is supposed to know anything about Neo, but I know for a fact they (or equivalent power dev kit) are being delivered to QA next month.
A Sony insider isn't going to be very reliable with a what's going on inside a locked down MS, so I wouldn't read much into that.
And as i said, I know just as little as the next man with what's going on at MS, I can only speculate based on the reality of the situation.
JaggedSac said:
Microsoft does talk about things with a future look at what they accomplish. If you think about it, laying down the foundation of Windows 10 Anniversary Update is just the beginning. The next part is getting software released on the store and having UWP be the default for all Xbox games. The last part of the story would be the hardware being upgraded with that vision in mind. It makes sense (if that's what they are doing and seeing where they are going as a company, it makes sense).
It's currently rumored that the next Microsoft hardware refresh will be Spring 2017 (Surfacebook, Surface Pro, Surface Phone, Band 3, maybe HoloLens update) and the Xbox platform was at the last one, but they didn't have any hardware to show. The next time it would make sense as all of the hardware reveals for Xbox have been at events outside of E3. E3 would be a place to show off the games made for that hardware, but utilizing the Universal Windows Platform. I do think that what we get this year is a slim model in the same design philosophy as Surface. Probably more in line with the Elite controller in finish and polish. This year is about unifying Windows and having everything align with the UWP (granted that won't happen until Band 3 is running Windows instead of Linux). So getting that alignment with software/games is going to take priority.
I expect mostly games at E3, a quick announcement for the new hardware model (and updated standard controller). If MS releases their new hardware in spring 2017 and Sony releases in the end of 2016, it's not that much of a loss. Sure, they won't win holiday, but they hardly do anyways. So better make sure you have good shit to come out than trying to rush to follow.
Also, I definitely see them having Scalebound being the big game to show off the Xbox Elite.
If 3rd party devs know about it, we know about it, lol. If 3rd party devs don't know about it right now, 3rd party games aren't releasing for it this year. That is my point. The fact that you know about Neo kits going out furthers my point.
gaming_noob
Member
They could be in the planning stages and still talk about it.
Sure, but talking about future hardware more powerful hardware is risky business when trying to keep selling what you have out now. People always assume something new and better is just around the corner, but when an exec mentions is out loud, it muddies the water for consumers.
MilkyJoe
Member
I kind of trod on my own point... hmmm
Anyway... I think we have to wait and see. MS cannot let Neo get announced and go one sale without at least saying they have something or there is no reason on earth Xbox would be the most attractive investment
Being an Xbox fanboy I'd wait...
First off, they have to stop this current console asap. I know that it sucks to see it gone this early, but outside NA the Xbox one is a joke. They have no hope of taking alot of countries no matter what they do, and even less than as long as Xbox one is a thing. That alone is a big reason why I believe they have to start a "new Gen"
Next, they wouldn't technically be starting from scratch. 360 BC, Xbox one BC, and forward compatibility with Xbox one for a year or two. All the advantages of a "half step" while still being able to market it as a fresh experience. Which is just about the only way they can help with that "global image" problem.
The Xbox one name is beyond saving, and the console itself as well (outside NA).
And no its not the solution people are hoping for, but I gotta say its a hell of alot better than trying to get something out this year to compete against Sony during the holidays and Nintendo and Sony the first half of the following year.
I see your point, but still disagree.
They try and go up against the neo this year, and it really wont matter what's "in the box" so to speak. Fact is, PS4 already has the mindshare, and that's not going anywhere without a massive blunder on sonys part and a huge success on MS part at the same time.
If they wait a year, they have more than enough time to work on what separates them from Sony,rather than trying to go head to head with them (similar to Nintendo), which is what they should be doing imo. Dropping another console before W10 and Xbox still haven't been fully integrated would just be a mistake.
Also, both of you ignore the possibility of a slim and a price drop this holiday and the effect that might have on sales. If you think a $199 Xbox one slim wouldn't fly off the shelves regardless of graphics, then idk what to say other than I do.
- Status