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[Future]

It seemed like the rhetoric for these bills was "tough on terrorism," considering most limitations were based on being on those types of lists. And would have only affected a small percentage of Americans

I wish the senators were forced to write dissenting opinion. I'd like to see what they were so afraid of beyond "gun control? LOL NO"

 

[Rayis]

Well at least even the Republicans came up with bills, that's gotta count as progress right?

 

[Luschient]

http://everytown.org/senate-vote-or...e=et_n_&utm_medium=_o&utm_campaign=ETHomepage

Nice to see a list of people that said no, and of course its mostly Republicans. What a mess of a party. Guns before country.

Ahh dammit Rand Paul

 

[gutter_trash]

Well at least even the Republicans came up with bills, that's gotta count as progress right?

not when they are watered down

 

[antonz]

That's fair. These particular Republican politicians that are servants to the NRA then. Though to also be fair and as you pointed out, Republican voters are the ones that keep putting them in office.

A sad reality is America has the Government it deserves. On both sides of the aisle the voting population feels its representatives are doing jack shit yet when it comes time to make our voices count and to send a message we just tick a checkmark next to the same old names over and over.

I mean when the American People cannot even get an average of a 50% approval rating for congress how the hell do we keep sending these clowns back. America is content with 70%+ disapproval of what our government does and has no desire to change it.

 

[UberTag]

I mean when the American People cannot even get an average of a 50% approval rating for congress how the hell do we keep sending these clowns back. America is content with 70%+ disapproval of what our government does and has no desire to change it.

It's not like they have a means of shaking up the status quo when every voter's choice is between...

... short of a violent uprising of some kind. And who the hell wants to chance that when every civilian is packing heat.

 

[Lead]

Fucking how? It's literally trying yo stop terrorists and criminals only yet still fails. That's not even gun control, that's common fucking sense.

The no-fly list is unconstitutional.

You'd be barring people their 2nd amendment right without due process.
It would basically be the government deciding to end your constitutional rights for "reasons".
In other words you're punishing people with no crimes committed. The fact that there's a no-fly list already really sickens me on a core level.

As for the bills in general, I imagine the complete reluctance to vote for anything reasonable (yes several of these bills seemed perfectly fine), is obviously due to the fear "if you give your hand, they'll end up taking the arm" sort of thing. And the fact that the 2nd Amendment and how it protects peoples access to firearms isn't up for debate.

As some of you know, some of you don't, and some of you keeps ignoring it for your own narratives, it has been concluded in SCOTUS that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." does stand on its own.

 

[HyperionX]

As I have said in other threads, guns right should not exist and in fact should disappear. Ideally, we'll all just agree to repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it once and for all. But if it takes a gradual chipping away of them until they're gone, that's arguably a suitable solution as well.

 

[Lead]

As I have said in other threads, guns right should not exist and in fact should disappear. Ideally, we'll all just agree to repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it once and for all. But if it takes a gradual chipping away of them until they're gone, that's arguably a suitable solution as well.

This is the reason why bills like these fail in the senate.

 

[Pandy]

A predictable outcome, but still a sad one.
That virtually everybody still has the 'Right' to a deadly weapon in the US is beyond fucked up.

 

[Karsticles]

As I have said in other threads, guns right should not exist and in fact should disappear. Ideally, we'll all just agree to repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it once and for all. But if it takes a gradual chipping away of them until they're gone, that's arguably a suitable solution as well.

What about hunters?

 

[Lead]

What about hunters?

Nah man, they magically go away, There's almost 80 million firearms in private citizens hands in Europe, 7/10th of these are hunting weapons.

 

[iamblades]

As I have said in other threads, guns right should not exist and in fact should disappear. Ideally, we'll all just agree to repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it once and for all. But if it takes a gradual chipping away of them until they're gone, that's arguably a suitable solution as well.

This thinking is 100% of the reason why the pro gun side has adopted the no compromise ever mindset.

It's the reason why even when polls show that even NRA members support x type of gun control, they still call up their representatives by the tens of thousands and tell them to vote against it.

If you want gun control to work, you have to give the pro gun side something they value more than what you are asking them to give up, or you are going to have to wait until public opinion has a drastic shift which is not all that likely given how polarized politics are in this country right now.

I've suggested before that putting handguns and semi-auto rifles on the NFA registry in exchange for nationwide CCW reciprocity and a repeal of the 1986 hughes amendment could make a significant difference in gun crime in this country while actually increasing the freedom of gun owners, and just might have a chance of making it into law. The problem is the gun control side is just as unwilling to compromise as the NRA.

 

[devilhawk]

As I have said in other threads, guns right should not exist and in fact should disappear. Ideally, we'll all just agree to repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it once and for all. But if it takes a gradual chipping away of them until they're gone, that's arguably a suitable solution as well.

This is the exact reason these laws don't get passed.

Most NRA members and gun advocates don't care about the gun show loophole closing or terrorists not being able to buy guns - the polls show as such. Just as you don't really care about those regulations either; you actually just want guns banned. They sure as hell know if they allow one regulation to be added, you will be back for another in no time, and they will be in a weaker position for having let the first one pass.

 

[neorej]

Consistent, widespread issue voting and a gun control lobby capable of delivering the same number of phone calls and letters on a regular basis.

In short, for gun control advocates to spend more time and money being active.

Feel free to start by clicking my tag.

It's sad to see the US actually needs a Kickstarter-like campaign to get Gun Violence under control. To get politicians to do their jobs.

 

[ArchedThunder]

The hold that guns have on our government is absolutely disgusting.
Nothing is going to change in regards of gun control because of things like the NRA.
It's depressing.

 

[shinra-bansho]

As some of you know, some of you don't, and some of you keeps ignoring it for your own narratives, it has been concluded in SCOTUS that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." does stand on its own.

You're forgetting those of us that are commenting under the full knowledge that it exists, but don't particularly care. Because it's stupid and not being US politicians aren't beholden to refraining from noting so.

 

[antonz]

It's sad to see the US actually needs a Kickstarter-like campaign to get Gun Violence under control. To get politicians to do their jobs.

American's need to be honest and actually open to compromise if they want to make progress. Vast Majority of Gun owners are very much in favor of lots of good common sense measures. They develop cold feet very quickly though because they know the other side is for the most part blowing smoke up their ass and outright lying to them about the end goal.

We see it constantly in threads on Gaf. Its not about common sense reforms. For many its about whittling away at the base until they can say haha got you fuckers

 

[Broken Hope]

Americans and their guns, I don't see this ever changing.

How owning a gun ever became a human right I'll never know.

 

[Lead]

You're forgetting those of us that are commenting under the full knowledge that it exists, but don't particularly care. Because it's stupid and not being US politicians aren't beholden to refraining from noting so.

Sure but you're basically saying you don't give a fuck about due process and your rights as an American.

I could also swing haymakers left and right thinking I might connect, but in actuality I'd end up looking like a clown for not playing by the rules and in general sidestepping the reality that we find ourselves in.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'm not an American, thus I find it bizarre that an archaic portion of the constitution, has been maintained to this day well outside of any original intent. I don't particularly care about "rights" that ultimately serve no purpose in modern civilized society.

It's neither here nor there since it's not going to change.

 

[Lead]

I'm not an American, thus I find it bizarre that an archaic portion of the constitution, has been maintained to this day well outside of any original intent. It's neither here nor there since it's not going to change.

It doesn't matter if you're American, this is about accepting fundemental pillars on how modern society is build. If there's a dispute in law it's sorted in court, and by law you have to at the very least aknowledge the legitimacy of said court rulings.

It's fine you disagree and think it's archaic, not so much that you flat out refuse to acknolwedge the legitimacy of courts.

 

[neorej]

American's need to be honest and actually open to compromise if they want to make progress. Vast Majority of Gun owners are very much in favor of lots of good common sense measures. They develop cold feet very quickly though because they know the other side is for the most part blowing smoke up their ass and outright lying to them about the end goal.

We see it constantly in threads on Gaf. Its not about common sense reforms. For many its about whittling away at the base until they can say haha got you fuckers

And what would that achieve?

 

[shinra-bansho]

It doesn't matter if you're American, this is about accepting fundemental pillars on how modern society is build. If there's a dispute in law it's sorted in court, and by law you have to at the very least aknowledge the legitimacy of said court rulings.

It's fine you disagree and think it's archaic, not so much that you flat out refuse to acknolwedge the legitimacy of courts.

I acknowledge it as the law. That doesn't actually mean anything beyond that very limited comment. I don't really need to consider it a valid "right" or accept it as something worth preserving any more than other archaic concepts. It is a stupid law.

 

[antonz]

And what would that achieve?

What good would honest compromise be? Could potentially save thousands of lives a year maybe even tens of thousands. If your going to be deceitful and try to manipulate people willing to compromise then you get what we have now which is needless death and no real change.

 

[Vicetrailia]

What good would honest compromise be? Could potentially save thousands of lives a year maybe even tens of thousands. If your going to be deceitful and try to manipulate people willing to compromise then you get what we have now which is needless death and no real change.

So in your world, anti-gun politicians and folk do not compromise?

 

[sohois]

A sad reality is America has the Government it deserves. On both sides of the aisle the voting population feels its representatives are doing jack shit yet when it comes time to make our voices count and to send a message we just tick a checkmark next to the same old names over and over.

I mean when the American People cannot even get an average of a 50% approval rating for congress how the hell do we keep sending these clowns back. America is content with 70%+ disapproval of what our government does and has no desire to change it.

The institution of congress has the terrible approval rating, but the individual congressman will most likely be popular among their own constituents. People don't get to vote, however, on parliamentary systems.

 

[Spunky Monkey]

I don't get this at all. People in power agreed potential terrorists should have guns? I'd love to know their thinking (money) behind that one. The NRAs argument that innocent citizens on terrorist watch lists wouldn't be able to get a gun. Who cares? Seriously how many people would that really affect out of the millions of Americans. Is it really that important?

How do these people get voted into office in the first place when they have thoughts like this.

 

[Beartruck]

I love how 2nd amendment nuts hold up the Constitution as some immutable unchangeable bastion of perfect law, when it really, really isn't. The original version of it only let rich white men vote. The original version also thought slavery was A-ok. It also bans alcohol, and then later unbans it!

 

[Lead]

I love how 2nd amendment nuts hold up the Constitution as some immutable unchangeable bastion of perfect law, when it really, really isn't. The original version of it only let rich white men vote. The original version also thought slavery was A-ok. It also bans alcohol, and then later unbans it!

As long as it's law it's simply reality, unless you advocate for anarchism and total chaos.

 

[oti]

So with Clinton becoming President, the Supreme Court becoming less trash, how can the Senate be un-trashed?

 

[Transistor]

As long as it's law it's simply reality, unless you advocate for anarchism and total chaos.

Thankfully, it's a reality that can be changed. Nobody is saying that our entire constitution needs to be tossed in the trash. But that amendment needs to be repealed. Something that's been done before and can be done again.

So with Clinton becoming President, the Supreme Court becoming less trash, how can the Senate be un-trashed?

Well, with Donald Trump pushing a lot of people away from voting for him, you're going to have a lot of straight ticket voters who, by voting for Hillary instead, will sway the rest of the votes a wee bit.

 

[Lead]

Thankfully, it's a reality that can be changed. Nobody is saying that our entire constitution needs to be tossed in the trash. But that amendment needs to be repealed. Something that's been done before and can be done again.

Right but until the 2nd amendment is repealed it's not useful to ignore important aspects of modern democracy. People are continually ignoring the judgement of the surpreme court, that sounds like anarchism to me.

 

[TentPole]

Right but until the 2nd amendment is repealed it's not useful to ignore important aspects of modern democracy. People are continually ignoring the judgement of the surpreme court, that sounds like anarchism to me.

Nobody's ignoring it. Nobody's unlawfully seizing guns from gun owners. Disagreeing with a judgment is not the anarchy you think it is.

 

[Transistor]

Nobody's ignoring it. Nobody's unlawfully seizing guns from gun owners. Disagreeing with a judgment is not the anarchy you think it is.

Exactly. We're trying to push for change in this country, we're not busting in doors and taking guns like the "Obama Knights" my old coworker feared so much.

 

[FyreWulff]

And the fact that the 2nd Amendment and how it protects peoples access to firearms isn't up for debate.

But, it is. It was amended in. We can amend it right back out, or redefine it by explicitly defining a militia via another amendment.

People have kind of forgotten, but we DO have the ability to amend or change the constitution.

 

[neorej]

What good would honest compromise be? Could potentially save thousands of lives a year maybe even tens of thousands. If your going to be deceitful and try to manipulate people willing to compromise then you get what we have now which is needless death and no real change.

I feel like I'm talking to someone from an alternate reality here. The GOP is doing everything in it's power to retain the status quo. Members of the DP are offering real solutions. GOP refuses to budge one inch, even though the NRA who pays them says they want to cooperate in real change.

 

[John Kowalski]

Jesus fucking christ.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

NRA is trash. The GOP is trash.

 

[jason10mm]

This thinking is 100% of the reason why the pro gun side has adopted the no compromise ever mindset.

It's the reason why even when polls show that even NRA members support x type of gun control, they still call up their representatives by the tens of thousands and tell them to vote against it.

If you want gun control to work, you have to give the pro gun side something they value more than what you are asking them to give up, or you are going to have to wait until public opinion has a drastic shift which is not all that likely given how polarized politics are in this country right now.

I've suggested before that putting handguns and semi-auto rifles on the NFA registry in exchange for nationwide CCW reciprocity and a repeal of the 1986 hughes amendment could make a significant difference in gun crime in this country while actually increasing the freedom of gun owners, and just might have a chance of making it into law. The problem is the gun control side is just as unwilling to compromise as the NRA.

Bingo. Every gun control "compromise" is just a step towards a total ban. Compromise means "give and take", so the gun banners need to give something back to gun rights supporters if they want to get anywhere. A "certified good guy" status that allows for broad CCW abilities and NFA access with new firearms is something you could probably sell to both sides. Of course certification would have to be well detailed, immutable (so the requirements don't inflate to the point where no one can qualify), and regulated by a BATFE that actually WANTS to COLLECT TAXES on firearms, not ban them completely.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Just saw a poll showing 90% of Republicans supported these bills. Yet it still can't pass. What a joke. And they wonder why they can't get elected? lol.

I guess the only good that can come of this nonsense is that some of them may realize that they are not actually being served by their leaders, and don't vote for someone just because there is an "R" next to their name.

 

[Oppo]

how about -

Universal Health Care for non gun owners

Bingo. Every gun control "compromise" is just a step towards a total ban. Compromise means "give and take", so the gun banners need to give something back to gun rights supporters if they want to get anywhere

pff. the gun control people can point to a mountain of dead American children. no hobby is worth that and we know that it's no protection either, statistically. there should be no give. gun nuts need to recognize the dire circumstances. there's just no good argument for not altering your laws to match other rich western nations like Canada who have lots of guns but not daily mass shootings.

I use Canada as a specific example because we do have a lot of guns per capita, but they are almost all hunting rifles, and well regulated. no one has any trouble target shooting or hunting up here. and guess what you don't "need one for home security" because the country isn't a shooting gallery because we have gun control.

this attitude that the issue is intractable in American minds is maybe the biggest problem. of course you can change it. of COURSE you can.

 

[Skytylz]

The first republican proposal in the OP actually seem reasonable. I'm surprised such a large number of people here seem to support the removal of rights without due process.

 

[ZackieChan]

I love how 2nd amendment nuts hold up the Constitution as some immutable unchangeable bastion of perfect law, when it really, really isn't. The original version of it only let rich white men vote. The original version also thought slavery was A-ok. It also bans alcohol, and then later unbans it!

All of those things were changed through the methods given within the Constitution. People are free to change the 2nd Amendment through the same method. However, since not enough of the country agrees with you on this, it won't happen. There's a reason that amending the Constitution is so difficult.

 

[kaching]

As for the bills in general, I imagine the complete reluctance to vote for anything reasonable (yes several of these bills seemed perfectly fine), is obviously due to the fear "if you give your hand, they'll end up taking the arm" sort of thing. And the fact that the 2nd Amendment and how it protects peoples access to firearms isn't up for debate.

Sorry, but the slippery slope argument is complete BS and if you need proof then you ironically need look no further than this NRA led stand-off on gun control. They've had no trouble holding off even sensible gun control measures and have actually made decent headway into relaxing gun control with CCW provisions and the like from state to state. Frankly, the NRA could choose to give as little or as much as they want to on this and then just stop again, arbitrarily. It's not like they've had any trouble holding any other arbitrary line in the sand before this.

 

[idolminds]

Bingo. Every gun control "compromise" is just a step towards a total ban. Compromise means "give and take", so the gun banners need to give something back to gun rights supporters if they want to get anywhere.

"We can prevent thousands of people being needlessly killed every year."

"Yeah but whats in it for me?"

 

[gutter_trash]

the British are no longer going to invade you, the 2nd Amendment is outdated, scrap it

 

[Jackpot]

So the GOP is in favour of selling guns to ISIS. Whodathunkit?

 

[Skellig Gra]

I love how 2nd amendment nuts hold up the Constitution as some immutable unchangeable bastion of perfect law, when it really, really isn't. The original version of it only let rich white men vote. The original version also thought slavery was A-ok. It also bans alcohol, and then later unbans it!

Not much of a convincing argument considering that's the entire point of the Constitutional amendment process. If it hasn't been changed then its still the law.

 

[Aaron]

So the GOP is in favour of selling guns to ISIS. Whodathunkit?

They're for whatever people pay them to be for. That's what it means to be a Republican.

i call for a colored people march in the suburbs on Washington DCwith AK47s, M16s, AR15s, you name it


shit will get passed..............if not,


i dont know what to say.

It won't. It's not about fear. It's about profit with fear used as a motivator for sales.