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[Snagret]

Let's not pretend suddenly like Vice Presidents matter, because no one took them seriously in the past. Trump picked him to secure votes, just like Obama did with Biden to get the working class voter then proceeded to do nothing for that group.

Well...at least you're optimistic.

Okay America I have to posit this .... Uhmmm aren't you already politicising this if your justices can swing these key issues one way or another too much . I mean isn't the judiciary supposed to be formed up of level minded ppl who interpret the laws and protect the guilty and discriminated that's essentially the job of the judicial system isn't it ?

If so maybe it's time to realize your country isn't ready for as progressive with laws if one political swing or another can overturn it . Hey it's okay some countries are more progressive sometimes you can personally want something doesn't mean the whole country is willing for it .

I think there are plenty of people willing to admit this. If anyone tells you America is a progressive country, then they haven't been paying attention to how hard marginalized groups have had to fight for the most basic of rights over the last...well, couple hundred years.

 

[greycolumbus]

Let's not pretend suddenly like Vice Presidents matter, because no one took them seriously in the past. Trump picked him to secure votes, just like Obama did with Biden to get the working class voter then proceeded to do nothing for that group.

looooool

 

[Scrawnton]

So to clarify, you are arguing that bringing on a member of an anti-LGBT hate group is not anti-LGBT?

I didn't say that. That's the whole issue with this election cycle. People filling it gaps.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I think that our nation could really stand to have a constitution - not gonna happen, but whatever - that requires that Supreme Court Justices be moderate and that only Justices who at their time of appointment are even-minded on politics can serve. It'd suck to lose liberal Justices, but it would also help avoid situations where rulings like these are repealed.

I didn't say that. That's the whole issue with this election cycle. People filling it gaps.

So let's do the scoreboard

Trump is Pro LGBT:

1. Waved an upside down rainbow flag with LGBTs for Trump on it and said he would protect LGBT rights

Tump is Anti LGBT:

1. Gave a serious amount of power to an individual who belongs to an anti-LGBT hate group

Correct me if I'm wrong, but empowering anti-LGBT bigotry is diametrically opposed to protecting LGBT rights, correct?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I didn't say that. That's the whole issue with this election cycle. People filling it gaps.

You obviously don't see an issue with Pence and Blackwell being on his squad, so what conclusion do you wan't people to draw

 

[slit]

I think that our nation could really stand to have a constitution - not gonna happen, but whatever - that requires that Supreme Court Justices be moderate and that only Justices who at their time of appointment are even-minded on politics can serve. It'd suck to lose liberal Justices, but it would also help avoid situations where rulings like these are repealed.

That would never be practical. Who would decide what moderate is? It would have to be congress and they have no idea what that means.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

By recollection...too lazy to look up

Ginsburg, liberal
Stevens, liberal
Thomas, conservative

Are the oldest 3 and most likely to die, retire.

It is already going to be a 5-4 court...could be 7-2 soon enough.

I can only pray that the liberal judges remain as long as possible to protect us from Trump. At least a 5-4 court is preferable all things considering, especially since Kennedy pretty much a swing vote that can go either way.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Three of them are at or near 80.

That doesn't mean they are all on the verge of croaking. Retirement, sure.

Someone who is 80 right now (born in 1936) will on average have 8+ more years of life in them.

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/longevity.cgi

 

[A Link to the Past]

That would never be practical. Who would decide what moderate is? It would have to be congress and they have no idea what that means.

That's not inherently the case. We have many organizations in our country that make determinations on politics that do not involve the actual politicians. The people deciding this could be a nonpartisan group.

That doesn't mean they are all on the verge of croaking. Retirement, sure.

Someone who is 80 right now (born in 1936) will on average have 8+ more years of life in them.

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/longevity.cgi

Mhmm. And I think with Trump in the White House, Stevens and Ginsburg will try to hold out for four more years before retiring if their body allows it.

 

[Z3M0G]

I don't know American politics that well, but I couldn't imagine taking away gay marriage after it has been granted.

Why would they want to do that?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I think that our nation could really stand to have a constitution - not gonna happen, but whatever - that requires that Supreme Court Justices be moderate and that only Justices who at their time of appointment are even-minded on politics can serve. It'd suck to lose liberal Justices, but it would also help avoid situations where rulings like these are repealed.



So let's do the scoreboard

Trump is Pro LGBT:

1. Waved an upside down rainbow flag with LGBTs for Trump on it and said he would protect LGBT rights

Tump is Anti LGBT:

1. Gave a serious amount of power to an individual who belongs to an anti-LGBT hate group

Correct me if I'm wrong, but empowering anti-LGBT bigotry is diametrically opposed to protecting LGBT rights, correct?

Wasn't there a long list posted on the last page with quotes that basically showed that Trump himself has no problems with LGBT people? I mean, if you're going to keep a tally, it's worth to include these as well.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I don't know American politics that well, but I couldn't imagine taking away gay marriage after it has been granted.

Why would they want to do that?

Conservative politicians are more extreme than they've been in a while, and in particular the leaders of the party are specifically religiously conservative. For example, Ted Cruz attended a "Kill the Gays" rally and was opened in a rally by a pastor who called for gay people to be executed; Mike Pence is Trump's VP, and believes in conversion therapy (AKA, horrific torture of LGBT people).

 

[Fox Mulder]

I don't know American politics that well, but I couldn't imagine taking away gay marriage after it has been granted.

Why would they want to do that?

Republicans. They've been against it out of spite and Jesus, and control congress even if trump is a liar.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Wasn't there a long list posted on the last page with quotes that basically showed that Trump himself has no problems with LGBT people? I mean, if you're going to keep a tally, it's worth to include these as well.

The weight of "this is what Trump said about his views on [X]" is effectively nonexistent when weighed against "this is what Trump has done to negatively affect [X]."

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Trump has no issue with LGBT people, and yet...

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/issues-of-importance-to-catholics

Religious liberty is enshrined in the First Amendment to the Constitution. It is our first liberty and provides the most important protection in that it protects our right of conscience. Activist judges and executive orders issued by Presidents who have no regard for the Constitution have put these protections in jeopardy. If I am elected president and Congress passes the First Amendment Defense Act, I will sign it to protect the deeply held religious beliefs of Catholics and the beliefs of Americans of all faiths. The Little Sisters of the Poor, or any religious order for that matter, will always have their religious liberty protected on my watch and will not have to face bullying from the government because of their religious beliefs.

The First Amendment Defense Act (often abbreviated FADA) (H.R. 2802) is a bill introduced into the United States House of Representatives and United States Senate on June 17, 2015. The Senate sponsor of the bill is Mike Lee (R-Utah), and the House sponsor is Raul Labrador (R-Idaho). The bill aims to protect those who oppose same-sex marriage based on their religious beliefs from action by the federal government.

 

[Volimar]

Guys this isn't him being pro LGBT. It's him not caring one way or the other, meaning he won't step in on any restrictions that the republicans propose and won't care when the justices he picks overturn Obergefell. It's not immigration or taxes, so he doesn't care about it, but plenty of others in his administration and legislature do.

 

[slit]

Wasn't there a long list posted on the last page with quotes that basically showed that Trump himself has no problems with LGBT people? I mean, if you're going to keep a tally, it's worth to include these as well.

Since when do his quotes mean anything? Over the course of his life the man has changed his tune on a whim.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's hard to keep track of which things Trump says we're supposed to believe, and which ones we should ignore. If only there were some actions to help us decide...

 

[Chariot]

I don't know American politics that well, but I couldn't imagine taking away gay marriage after it has been granted.

Why would they want to do that?

Because Trump has a bunch of homophobes surrounding him. He is known to not be an enemy of LBGT incidentally, but the most worry was always that he just wasn't giving any shit and that his VP would do it. Pence is someone who advocated to electroshock the gay out of people. A lot of republicans either outright hate LBGT people or don't care for them. With all the power they now have they could've easily taking down the same sex marriage again.

 

[slit]

Because Trump has a bunch of homophobes surrounding him. He is known to not be an enemy of LBGT incidentally, but the most worry was always that he just wasn't giving any shit and that his VP would do it. Pence is someone who advocated to electroshock the gay out of people. A lot of republicans either outright hate LBGT people or don't care for them. With all the power they now have they could've easily taking down the same sex marriage again.

That's not true, it's not easy at all even with a GOP congress.

 

[Hoo-doo]

It's hard to keep track of which things Trump says we're supposed to believe, and which ones we should ignore. If only there were some actions to help us decide...

It's not just quotes though.

 

[Ishan]

The weight of "this is what Trump said about his views on [X]" is effectively nonexistent when weighed against "this is what Trump has done to negatively affect [X]."

This I'm international indian studying for a phd so I should be fine ... Tried to explain to a white/asian American military friend who wanted change ... He's like dude it's not like he can blow up the system . I'm like have you seen who he out up for cabinet ... He's like well no ppl will stop him ... And then I said that do you not see the impact he has had ... And it was just change if topic post that ...some ppl really do not know what the fuck they just voted in ... Blow up the system ... Good job idiot .. What's left of dunno just wanted to blow it up ... Literally some ppl have not thought this thru at all . Like at all. Michael Moore was so right .

 

[A Link to the Past]

It's not just quotes though.

For instance then?

 

[Llyrwenne]

supporter and all I care about is jobs and immigration.

Good for you.

Don't care what else he does as long as he doesn't ... take away our rights.

Republicans don't think police shootings are a problem. They will turn a blind eye to racial profiling and allow policies such as stop and frisk. They haven't held police accountable and they're not going to start now. They want police to have more power and less accountability than they already do. Republicans also have made numerous efforts to restrict / destroy the voting rights of minorities because minorities mostly vote Democratic and they can't have that. This party has actively worked against minorities in the past and they are not going to change their tune now.

The problem is Trump has been shown support for the LGBT community but the other side just didn't care so this isn't really new to his supporters. The liberal media just brainwashed ppl to think he has a problem with them.

The party he is running with has a history of being anti-LGBT. His VP, Mike Pence, believes that homosexuality is a choice. He opposed gay marriage, saying that he believes “societal collapse was always brought about following an advent of the deterioration of marriage and family.”. He had a hand in pushing for 'religious freedom' bills; thinly disguised legislation aimed at allowing people to discriminate against LGBT people. He opposed the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. Trump surrounds himself with anti-LGBT people. Republicans are pushing for bills that allow for discrimination against the LGBT community. They push for the removal of legislation that protects the LGBT community from discrimination. They are currently demonizing and rejecting the Transgender community. Trump just apointed a memeber of a prominent anti-LGBT group. Trump says he doesn't really care - but that's a bad thing, not a good thing. Sure, 'not all Republicans' or something, but come on... Trump is not going to stand up to Republicans on this, and if he actually seriously does, he will ignite infighting in his own party.

But I guess he waved a flag at his rally once. Truly a champion of the LGBT+ community! #MainstreamMedia #WakeUpSheeple

EDIT: To be clear, I know he has shown some support in the past. I firmly believe that was mostly in the context of business. Trump was different once. He was a democrat - now republican. He was pro-choice - now pro-life. He supported the gay community in some ways - now he's 'fine' with it because it's 'the law'. It is important now to not simply look at things he has said in the past, but also at the things he is doing right now. The things he is doing right now, the people he surrounds himself with, and the party with which he ran make it clear to me that he himself does not really care much either way. I don't believe he will genuinely stand up to the Republicans - not all Republicans - that will push for anti-LGBT legislation. I don't believe he will stand up to 'religious freedom' bills. I have exactly 0 reason to believe that he will push for legislation that is designed to help the LGBT community.

I hope I am proven wrong.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Let's make a media comparison

Jessica Jones Killgrave spoiler discussion

Spoiler

There is a point in the show where Killgrave is trying to convince Jessica to come back to him, and one of the things he does is save a person's life - only after being goaded into it by Jessica, mind you. Afterward, he revels in the feel-good of gratitude, and views taking lives versus saving lives as a 1:1 scoreboard and that after he saves enough people the lives he took will be wiped away from the board, and he genuinely doesn't understand the point that no amount of saved lives undoes a single life that he has taken. Similarly, we have to look at the argument of Trump's pro-LGBT statements. No matter how much he talks about what he has done for the LGBT community or what he would do for it, it won't undo the things he has done and is doing against it.

 

[Hoo-doo]

For instance then?

I'm just referring to this post from the last page. I don't know the actual sources.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's not just quotes though.

No, it's not. Pence and Blackwell are on his team.

And this still doesn't refute that people are choosing to believe what Trump statements they want to in order to feel better and lightweight erase the bigotry of his campaign.

The fact that he didn't ACTIVELY shit on LGBT+ during the campaign is the only thing that makes me think he MIGHT not actively try something but he's surrounded himself with people who will.

 

[jett]

Wasn't Roe v. Wade also "settled in the supreme court"? Isn't it law too? Isn't it done?

I don't see the difference. I don't think you can really trust anything Trump says.

 

[Scarecrow]

The GOP has bigger fish to fry than to worry about overturning gay marriage.

 

[borghe]

Eh... I am guessing Trump knows the Supreme Court rarely overturns their own rulings. To the SCOTUS precedent is king. Even all his Roe v Wade stuff, shines Trump has to know/believe that even with a 6/3 conservative court they won't overturn it. They might attempt to chip away at it but even then it would be an up hill battle.

Wasn't Roe v. Wade also "settled in the supreme court"? Isn't it law too? Isn't it done?

I don't see the difference. I don't think you can really trust anything Trump says.

I am NO Trump supporter, however..... you have to distinguish Trump the candidate from the conniving but somewhat savvy business man. He's never going to get elected if he was pro choice. Ever. There are millions of people single choice voting on abortion. I saw it personally. On top of that he can't change many of his positions now. Certainly not black/white ones like that or he could face impeachment if he changed enough.

This is savvy Trump selling prolife to the single issue voters believing there is no way the SCOTUS will overturn it.

Unfortunately I also believe it was savvy Trump running and destroying his campaign believing there was no way he would win. So if he really lives up to my benefit of the doubt, that pick is going to be crucial. He's basically going to have to put up a moderate who's going to lave the second amendment and also leave alone Roe v Wade.

 

[Leithkorias]

This guy is going to be a moderate president. I think he said outrageous things to get elected. It's tragic all the violence that has come from the outrageous remarks. Republicans who voted for him will likely feel betrayed. I don't think he's going to do any of the outrageous stuff he said he'd do

I think they care more about jobs and economy than taking the right to marry away from gays. The "repeal their right to marry" crowd is probably more fringe than you think.

 

[Boney]

One of the only silver linings is that Trump isn't really conservative. Pence is a counter weight to his "New York Values". Like his bullshit about abortion is completely made up because he was running for the republican ticket so he had to bs.

The issue now is if he's going to stand up to crazy conservatives or not.

 

[borghe]

One of the only silver linings is that Trump isn't really conservative. Pence is a counter weight to his "New York Values". Like his bullshit about abortion is completely made up because he was running for the republican ticket so he had to bs.

The issue now is if he's going to stand up to crazy conservatives or not.

Pence is the VP. He has no power here. Donald can tel him STFU and all he can do is smile.

 

[Koomaster]

As I said in the last thread on this; Trump says anything at any given time and then turns around and says the opposite moments later. If anyone is breathing a sigh of relief over this, you haven't been paying attention to this man at all. Like AT ALL!

With who he is surrounding himself with; I wouldn't trust him on lgbt rights till he proves otherwise. Plus he himself may do nothing but that doesn't mean congress won't try and he'd just turn a blind eye to it.

 

[Z3M0G]

Ted Cruz attended a "Kill the Gays" rally and was opened in a rally by a pastor who called for gay people to be executed

Why are these people not in jail?

 

[Ishan]

Eh... I am guessing Trump knows the Supreme Court rarely overturns their own rulings. To the SCOTUS precedent is king. Even all his Roe v Wade stuff, shines Trump has to know/believe that even with a 6/3 conservative court they won't overturn it. They might attempt to chip away at it but even then it would be an up hill battle.

I am NO Trump supporter, however..... you have to distinguish Trump the candidate from the conniving but somewhat savvy business man. He's never going to get elected if he was pro choice. Ever. There are millions of people single choice voting on abortion. I saw it personally. On top of that he can't change many of his positions now. Certainly not black/white ones like that or he could face impeachment if he changed enough.

This is savvy Trump selling prolife to the single issue voters believing there is no way the SCOTUS will overturn it.

Unfortunately I also believe it was savvy Trump running and destroying his campaign believing there was no way he would win. So if he really lives up to my benefit of the doubt, that pick is going to be crucial. He's basically going to have to put up a moderate who's going to lave the second amendment and also leave alone Roe v Wade.

Mr "savvy" put mr " brietbart" in a position of power .... Savvy ? (Yeah pirates of Caribbean savvy where's the rum)

 

[Ishan]

Why are these people not in jail?

Be happy America has very strong free speech laws it's what's gonna help you from the Donald

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Why are these people not in jail?

Because in the U.S., we're not considered human. (The LGBT community is not even included into the Civil Rights Act yet)

Also, Freedom of Speech allows it because they didn't directly say to kill gay people, just that gay people should be executed. So it's considered not a threat.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

You might rightly think that Trump is awful but you dodged a bullet by not having President Cruz.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

So what does he actually want to do? He's backing down on a lot.

Everybody's dun goofed.

 

[Journeywalker]

Well there goes the white gay opposition to Trump.

Fuck you, got mine.

I, for one, am not going to leave minorities out to dry.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I, for one, am not going to leave minorities out to dry.

And likewise; I appreciate that.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Oh god the Right is going to eat him alive if he doesn't go all in on this.

He actually sometimes mentioned on his rallys that he is pro same sex marriage and against discrimination of LBGT people. Reaction was always mix but it didn't really hurt him, I think.

 

[Earthpainting]

Guys this isn't him being pro LGBT. It's him not caring one way or the other, meaning he won't step in on any restrictions that the republicans propose and won't care when the justices he picks overturn Obergefell. It's not immigration or taxes, so he doesn't care about it, but plenty of others in his administration and legislature do.

This is how I interpret it. He's doing the sexuality version of being colour-blind to race. He doesn't have anything against it, which is fine for maintaining a legislative status quo, but we shouldn't mistake it for being an ally. If he doesn't care, he's going to do whatever is most easy and convenient. If that balance shifts or if it becomes too hot of a subject, he'll flip flop or, most likely, push the authority down to state level.

 

[Special C]

I'm not sure why we tend to put LGBT rights on the same level as abortion. Sure they are the top 2 social issues but the implications are way different. LBGT community having rights doesn't hurt anyone and is only really opposable on a religious level. Abortion is literally a debate about ending a life and has serious implications on basic human ethics, not just religion.

 

[Lo-Volt]

Pence is the VP. He has no power here. Donald can tel him STFU and all he can do is smile.

We've had exceptionally powerful Vice Presidents like Dick Cheney. Besides, Trump is hopelessly inexperienced and unprepared and he's pretty much telegraphing that right now to anyone looking at this. Relatively experienced people like Mike Pence and Rudy Giuliani are going to be the people whispering in his ear a lot longer than Barack Obama. Seriously, don't buy this at face value.

 

[Red Liquorice]

Well there goes the white gay opposition to Trump.

Fuck you, got mine.

You could say the same about any group in the same situation and you'd be just as wrong/right.

 

[RM8]

Obviously he's not going to protect same-sex marriage, but I still expected much worse from this joke character.

 

[Mr. X]

Putin will woo him into changing positions.

Regardless, congress can just veto his veto to pass laws no?

 

[Incognito]

I would like to keep the pre-exisiting conditions and coverage for 26 y/o's on their parents coverage. Those are popular.

Signs reconciliation bill that guts subsidies, individual mandate, and medicaid funding.

Same sex marriage is settled law.

Appoints justices that don't quite believe so.

I mean, actions speak louder than words. We have the words right now. Let's see what he actually does. I don't think they'll align with his many, tremendous words, but we'll soon find out!