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Will MS go for Sony's throat at E3 and undercut their PS4 MSRP ?

they've been charging us for XBL for years, I would think that would cover the cost of servers for gaming purposes already. seeing as all we had thus far is peer2peer, what exactly are those fees used for? partychat bandwidth and matchmaking?

How about marketing, NFL deals, HALO TV-series with Steven Spielberg, Xbox One development, That 100mil controller RnD, The presumed price cut. It is not like the money from live only goes back to live services but is spread out to cover all the costs of the business.
 

Salex_

Member
Man, are you that daft to not know my point? our dollar goes up and down all the time the americans buy our shit untill it goes up to there level then they back off and watch it go down then start trading like nuts again.. My point is the xboxone is the same price and comes with titan fall for 499 or u can get a ps4 with no camera no game for 449? Tell me you see a difference in value.

You can't think of a reason why the Xbox One didn't go up in price...? Here's a hint. Take a look at what they're doing in the US/UK.
I've never witnessed a piece of hardware actually go up in price when it had almost just come out. This is new to me, and I've lived in canada my whole life. I can't think of a reason, but do you guys in canada not see that the xone has more value since the ps4 went up 50 bucks?

Why would MS raise the price if they were going to do deals to make it cheaper? If I remember correctly there's a bundle that makes the Xbox One the same price or cheaper than the PS4 in the UK right now.
 
You can't think of a reason why the Xbox One didn't go up in price...? Here's a hint. Take a look at what they're doing in the US/UK.

I've never witnessed a piece of hardware actually go up in price when it had almost just come out. This is new to me, and I've lived in canada my whole life. I can't think of a reason, but do you guys in canada not see that the xone has more value since the ps4 went up 50 bucks?
 
How about marketing, NFL deals, HALO TV-series with Steven Spielberg, Xbox One development, That 100mil controller RnD, The presumed price cut. It is not like the money from live only goes back to live services but is spread out to cover all the costs of the business.

i would have gladly scarified some those TV/NFL deals if it allowed the 360 to benefit from dedicated servers for it's first party games during the console cycle.

I've never witnessed a piece of hardware actually go up in price when it had almost just come out. This is new to me, and I've lived in canada my whole life. I can't think of a reason, but do you guys in canada not see that the xone has more value since the ps4 went up 50 bucks?

didn't the XB1 effectively receive a price-cut here due to it not rising in price due our dollar? even games are $70 now
 

Chobel

Member
wether you care or not is unimportant... it's simply data that would be interesting... data mining can tell you all kind of things

Interesting in what way? What does this data mining that you did tell you?

At first I thought you were joking but this ain't the first time I've seen posts like this from you, so I'm thinking you're dead serious.

If I'm wrong I'll go eat some some salt+.

Then go and eat some salt. Pics or didn't happen.
 
i would have gladly scarified some those TV/NFL deals if it allowed the 360 to benefit from dedicated servers for it's first party games during the console cycle.

Yeah but MS believes or have measured that it´s consumer are more interested in those services and that is why you get them and a new console build around it.
 
the Wii has a ton of quality game, but perception is that it's a giant waste bin outside of what Nintendo did... perception can become reality and the damage it can do to a brand is huge.

Very few people would agree with that but whatever if thats what you like.
 
You can't think of a reason why the Xbox One didn't go up in price...? Here's a hint. Take a look at what they're doing in the US/UK.


Why would MS raise the price if they were going to do deals to make it cheaper? If I remember correctly there's a bundle that makes the Xbox One the same price or cheaper than the PS4 in the UK right now.

Why did sony raise their price though? If it was due to our dollar then everything should've gone up. Oh but that's right it didn't.
 

Abdiel

Member
I fell asleep in the middle of my rapid fire retort posts to Cuecil... Man, so many pages have gone by since then!

The idea that MS will be aggressive with their pricing to try and undercut Sony shows a total lack of understanding of their situation. MS does not want to be losing money on their systems, that's why they were priced the way they were, to make profit on the hardware alone, and not need to offset with games/XBL. But that's not working out for them. They've done an indirect price cut through retailers, that helped move some units, but it's still fighting an uphill battle, even at that price point, and only in 2 territories. And even in the UK, the price cuts are even bigger, because they are making price cuts on a much higher exchange rate and that translates to much lower margins.

Parity in sales is not competition. That's crony capitalism, when you prop up a losing company just to keep it around. Competition means a side outperforms another because it presents itself as the better option, for the cost/performance, etc. The PS2 managed this, and the layout of this generation seems to be heading in that way again, though exactly how high the numbers will be may be extremely variable, because of the change in the landscape (Japan decreasing, new markets opening sooner)
 

kyser73

Member
The thread so far...

One poster thinks FW updates are innately tied to a profitable per-unit sale.

Someone who thinks Apple are great innovators, rather than a great design agency & commercialiser of other people's ideas. (Who FWIW lag behind the competition on terms of adding features to their OS)

Someone who thinks Xbox is MS most profitable division; that MS Azure is a part of XBone, rather than the reverse.

Someone who thinks PS2-era sucked; parity is good.

Thread delivers.
 
Didn't the price of most games also go up?

Strange thing is, some are some aren't.. is this the thanks people get for trading their games for 1 dollar to gamestop? they've been devaluing games so much because they are 3-4 months old.. but a brand new sealed copy 69 dollars please.. 6 months later you get 1 dollar for it.. oh man taking advantage of small children for profit..
 
The thread so far...

One poster thinks FW updates are innately tied to a profitable per-unit sale.

Someone who thinks Apple are great innovators, rather than a great design agency & commercialiser of other people's ideas. (Who FWIW lag behind the competition on terms of adding features to their OS)

Someone who thinks Xbox is MS most profitable division; that MS Azure is a part of XBone, rather than the reverse.

Someone who thinks PS2-era sucked; parity is good.

Thread delivers.

Hey i re-worded my self and said. Lost money definitely doesn't go to firmware updates. It can't it's lost money it's gone thrown away never coming back.
 

Apathy

Member
I've never witnessed a piece of hardware actually go up in price when it had almost just come out. This is new to me, and I've lived in canada my whole life. I can't think of a reason, but do you guys in canada not see that the xone has more value since the ps4 went up 50 bucks?

Pretty sure the PS3 went up in price after it got released.

http://gizmodo.com/231780/about-that-ps3-price-change-ive-got-good-news-and-bad-news

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139669
 

Armaros

Member
The thread so far...

One poster thinks FW updates are innately tied to a profitable per-unit sale.

Someone who thinks Apple are great innovators, rather than a great design agency & commercialiser of other people's ideas. (Who FWIW lag behind the competition on terms of adding features to their OS)

Someone who thinks Xbox is MS most profitable division; that MS Azure is a part of XBone, rather than the reverse.

Someone who thinks PS2-era sucked; parity is good.

Thread delivers.

The thread started sorta on track but the crazies keep piling in, Amazing.
 
Apparently you don't know what PR speak is. CEO's like Phil Spencer are being told by their higher-ups on what to say & how they're saying it whenever they're facing trouble in something within companies. Of course, they're not going to say anything bad about the Xbox brand in general.

Then I guess what you're saying is we have two polar opposites of views where there can be no middle ground. One where it's all roses from PR people within Microsoft, and the other are haters like you. Those who will take any opportunity to make things appear as bad as possible because they hate the company and enjoy tormenting Xbox fans and think anyone who enjoys or speaks positively about the Xbox One is a fanboy.
 

Biker19

Banned
No... Sony Ponies are the crazy fanboys that want Sony's competitors to fail

See there, guys? He's doing it again. That crazy GameFAQ's/Youtube talk.

Then I guess what you're saying is we have two polar opposites of views where there can be no middle ground. One where it's all roses from PR people within Microsoft, and the other are haters like you. Those who will take any opportunity to make things appear as bad as possible because they hate the company and enjoy tormenting Xbox fans and think anyone who enjoys or speaks positively about the Xbox One is a fanboy.

Just saying, PR talk is very easy to detect. If you're saying that the Xbox brand isn't in trouble, then why talk about it in the first place? Doesn't make any sense.
 

Abdiel

Member
Then I guess what you're saying is we have two polar opposites of views where there can be no middle ground. One where it's all roses from PR people within Microsoft, and the other are haters like you. Those who will take any opportunity to make things appear as bad as possible because they hate the company and enjoy tormenting Xbox fans and think anyone who enjoys or speaks positively about the Xbox One is a fanboy.

"Haters like you"

Yeesh. Tone it down. You've taken the persecution complex to 11, sir.
 

Apathy

Member
i didn't buy one until it was 400 or 450 or something like that

Umm, ok, not sure what it matters when you bought one and for how much has to do with your previous comment about never seeing it even though you've lived here all your life but ok. I just wanted to point out it had happened in Canada before.
 
Then I guess what you're saying is we have two polar opposites of views where there can be no middle ground. One where it's all roses from PR people within Microsoft, and the other are haters like you. Those who will take any opportunity to make things appear as bad as possible because they hate the company and enjoy tormenting Xbox fans and think anyone who enjoys or speaks positively about the Xbox One is a fanboy.

"Please understand" hehe
 

coolasj19

Why are you reading my tag instead of the title of my post?
Can't do that.
QBJvnXc.png
On that note.
http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/ps2?view=condensed&sort=desc&page=0
Page 7 and a half is where the below 70 scores start. Page 15 (3rd to last on 14, really) is where the below 50 scores start. Page 16 2/3rd's are how many pages there are. And because everything between 70 and 50 doesn't exist, according to Metacritic, the PS2 had more good games than bad games. Because Metacritic is the alpha and omega of everything videogames. But, it's entirely possible there are games that weren't reviewed for the PS2.

The Gamecube and Xbox titles are N/A because they don't exist. According to Metacritic. All hail Metacritic.

On a side note, our neighborhood beekeeper bestowed upon us this scenario and I took it upon myself to find the answer because I myself was genuinely interested. Dragon Ball Z Sagas was bad, but it wasn't that bad.
 
"Haters like you"

Yeesh. Tone it down. You've taken the persecution complex to 11, sir.

biker has already admitted he hates the company so calling him a hater is spot on. It's amazing how someone who hates the company and sees no value in the XBox One spend most of his time talking about it.

Just saying, PR talk is very easy to detect. If you're saying that the Xbox brand isn't in trouble, then why talk about it in the first place? Doesn't make any sense.

Of course there is always PR and we have no idea if the XBox brand is in trouble. The system just released and they have said its the best selling XBox. They've also posted profits the last few years. Microsoft is a huge company who can afford to take some losses and they don't have to sell off buildings to balance their books either. What you seem to forget is how much they've invested into it. They won't be pulling out, I can tell you that. But whatever Microsoft says otherwise you'll just ignore and continue on with your own agenda.
 

kyser73

Member
Hey i re-worded my self and said. Lost money definitely doesn't go to firmware updates. It can't it's lost money it's gone thrown away never coming back.

The basic premise of your point was wrong.

Linking profit or loss to FW updates is just wrong. They're done because both consoles launched with barebones OSes - both needed Day 1 patches, and both have had multiple patches. The main difference is that MS's have been feature-rich and they've been running a PR campaign using it for a variety of reasons typing on a ipad means I won't explain now; Sony's have been less high profile and feature-rich, although apparently 1.70 will bring some big shiny-shiny features.
 
Umm, ok, not sure what it matters when you bought one and for how much has to do with your previous comment about never seeing it even though you've lived here all your life but ok. I just wanted to point out it had happened in Canada before.

Sorry but when the msrp of the ps3 came out i shut it down didn't read the price just kept waiting for games to come out and after a year they finally had a game worth getting... virtual fighter 5. I do think I remember the price going even higher, glad to see Sony is up to the same crap then.
 

Blackage

Member
The thread kinda breaks my brain from the outlet. MS going for Sony's jugular would imply Sony's throat is exposed to begin with no? The price war talk just sounds like fantasy to me given what's out there about what MS can and can't do atm with kinect and the box as well as manufacturing costs for both systems.
 
The basic premise of your point was wrong.

Linking profit or loss to FW updates is just wrong. They're done because both consoles launched with barebones OSes - both needed Day 1 patches, and both have had multiple patches. The main difference is that MS's have been feature-rich and they've been running a PR campaign using it for a variety of reasons typing on a ipad means I won't explain now; Sony's have been less high profile and feature-rich, although apparently 1.70 will bring some big shiny-shiny features.

Is it though? Is it wrong? FW updates take time, money and a whole team working on them they need to be paid in money so they will keep working. How often was the N-gage updated when it was a complete disaster?
 

Biker19

Banned
Biker has already admitted he hates the company so calling him a hater is spot on. It's amazing how someone who hates the company and sees no value in the XBox One spend most of his time talking about it.

There's nothing wrong with having discussions about companies like Microsoft. But every time I do so, you pop up & start some shit with me.

They won't be pulling out, I can tell you that. But whatever Microsoft says otherwise you'll just ignore and continue on with your own agenda.

See? There you go again, proving my point.
 
"Haters like you"

Yeesh. Tone it down. You've taken the persecution complex to 11, sir.

There's nothing wrong with having discussions about companies like Microsoft. But every time I do so, you pop up & start some shit with me.

That's enough. I was in this thread before you so don't even go there. You're the one who 'pops up' any chance you get to regurgitate the same old rhetoric of how the XBox is doing poorly and MS will be forced by investors to pull the plug. Even when they say it's a major part of the company now you dismiss it, all because you can't stand the company. So no, I'm not starting shit with you or anyone else, you've got baggage your unwilling to part with which means the shit will continue to stick to you.

See? There you go again, proving my point.

Proving what point, that you ignore everything while still being headstrong they will drop the Xbox because you hate the company and want the XBox One to fail miserably?
 

Abdiel

Member
biker has already admitted he hates the company so calling him a hater is spot on. It's amazing how someone who hates the company and sees no value in the XBox One spend most of his time talking about it.

That's enough. I was in this thread before you so don't even go there. You're the one who 'pops up' any chance you get to regurgitate the same old rhetoric of how the XBox is doing poorly and MS will be forced by investors to pull the plug. Even when they say it's a major part of the company now you dismiss it, all because you can't stand the company. So no, I'm not starting shit with you or anyone else, you've got baggage your unwilling to part with which means the shit will continue to stick to you.

I'd like to clarify... You're giving him a hard time for not liking a corporation that he feels was disrespectful or slimy in its dealings with consumers. If he doesn't feel MS has given him a reason to 'respect' or 'forgive' them again, how does that make him a hater? It doesn't sound like his opinions on the matter are just "I don't like them cause they suck." And if he's posting his opinions with some level of logical debate, that still doesn't make him a hater. It just means he's not a loyalist to a corporation.

And I've made some of my own posts based on hard numbers from my observations through actual retail channels about how the Xbox One is struggling. Does that make me a hater? So much of the speculation about how MS will pour money into a void to try and 'win' without any concrete backing just seems delusional, from the standpoint of actual business economics and retail context.
 

P90

Member
Of course there is always PR and we have no idea if the XBox brand is in trouble. The system just released and they have said its the best selling XBox. They've also posted profits the last few years. Microsoft is a huge company who can afford to take some losses and they don't have to sell off buildings to balance their books either. What you seem to forget is how much they've invested into it. They won't be pulling out, I can tell you that. But whatever Microsoft says otherwise you'll just ignore and continue on with your own agenda.


MS can take losses, but you are assuming they want to or are willing to. As I said earlier, it is well documented the Xbox division has poor ROI compared to other MS ventures. There is dissension at the company about continuing with the division.
 

Biker19

Banned
That's enough. I was in this thread before you so don't even go there. You're the one who 'pops up' any chance you get to regurgitate the same old rhetoric of how the XBox is doing poorly and MS will be forced by investors to pull the plug. Even when they say it's a major part of the company now you dismiss it, all because you can't stand the company. So no, I'm not starting shit with you or anyone else, you've got baggage your unwilling to part with which means the shit will continue to stick to you.

I'm not the only one saying those things, look around. Companies says one thing, then later on, says something else.

You always like to start shit with me, like saying I have baggage. AND I HAD ENOUGH. So stop posting to me. You got banned twice over me, & yet you still won't learn.
 

kyser73

Member
Is it though? Is it wrong? FW updates take time, money and a whole team working on them they need to be paid in money so they will keep working. How often was the N-gage updated when it was a complete disaster?

The highest version I could find via google was 4.11, which may suggest at least 3 major updates over 4 years on the assumption it launched with a V1.n.

So yes, it is wrong. You seem to be equating cash flow with pre-figured investment & spending. Whether Sony or MS make a per-unit profit is immaterial to the FW upgrade path until the product is killed off - and even then it doesn't stop as MS have found with XP, which they are finally withdrawing update support for at the end of this month.
 
I'd like to clarify... You're giving him a hard time for not liking a corporation that he feels was disrespectful or slimy in its dealings with consumers. If he doesn't feel MS has given him a reason to 'respect' or 'forgive' them again, how does that make him a hater? It doesn't sound like his opinions on the matter are just "I don't like them cause they suck." And if he's posting his opinions with some level of logical debate, that still doesn't make him a hater. It just means he's not a loyalist to a corporation.

He says he hates the company, those are his words. He did not clarify he hated some of the decisions they made, it was a blanket statement that is disrespectful to all the workers there. His opinions remain the same regardless of what they say or do. That to me means he doesn't want to hear any debate or discuss anything that can turn the system around. He just wants them to let go of the XBox brand so that Nintendo and Sony have less competition or someone else pick up the pieces. What does that have to do with MS going for Sony's throat?

I'm not the only one saying those things, look around. Companies says one thing, then later on, says something else.

You always like to start shit with me, like saying I have baggage. AND I HAD ENOUGH. So stop posting to me. You got banned twice over me, & yet you still won't learn.

I wasn't banned over you so don't flatter yourself. I was banned for whining in a DF analysis thread about Titanfall.

What? How is hating a company being disrespectful to workers, exactly? Always trying to start up drama. STOP. IT.

Because there are people who do care about games unlike what you think. You act like Microsoft is one big entity where everyone shares the same views. Meanwhile they let people go and shift people into different places. Even when they announce Phil Spencer at the helm you still have nothing positive to say. You've got one agenda and that is make sure the XBox One is at a state of failure.
 

Biker19

Banned
He says he hates the company, those are his words. He did not clarify he hated some of the decisions they made, it was a blanket statement that is disrespectful to all the workers there. His opinions remain the same regardless of what they say or do. That to me means he doesn't want to hear any debate or discuss anything that can turn the system around. He just wants them to let go of the XBox brand so that Nintendo and Sony have less competition or someone else pick up the pieces. What does that have to do with MS going for Sony's throat?

What? How is hating a company being disrespectful to workers, exactly? Always trying to start up drama. STOP. IT.
 

StoopKid

Member
He says he hates the company, those are his words. He did not clarify he hated some of the decisions they made, it was a blanket statement that is disrespectful to all the workers there. His opinions remain the same regardless of what they say or do. That to me means he doesn't want to hear any debate or discuss anything that can turn the system around. He just wants them to let go of the XBox brand so that Nintendo and Sony have less competition or someone else pick up the pieces. What does that have to do with MS going for Sony's throat?



I wasn't banned over you so don't flatter yourself. I was banned for whining in a DF analysis thread about Titanfall.

Lol cmon
 

Slashlen

Member
He says he hates the company, those are his words. He did not clarify he hated some of the decisions they made, it was a blanket statement that is disrespectful to all the workers there. His opinions remain the same regardless of what they say or do. That to me means he doesn't want to hear any debate or discuss anything that can turn the system around. He just wants them to let go of the XBox brand so that Nintendo and Sony have less competition or someone else pick up the pieces. What does that have to do with MS going for Sony's throat?

Clearly we all need to love MS as much as you do.

Sometimes these threads make me worry. I worry that we don't show MS the love they deserve, and that they may leave. And it is only then, when we are without MS's love and we see the hole in our hearts that we will realize our terrible mistake.
 
He says he hates the company, those are his words. He did not clarify he hated some of the decisions they made, it was a blanket statement that is disrespectful to all the workers there. His opinions remain the same regardless of what they say or do. That to me means he doesn't want to hear any debate or discuss anything that can turn the system around. He just wants them to let go of the XBox brand so that Nintendo and Sony have less competition or someone else pick up the pieces. What does that have to do with MS going for Sony's throat?

lol "disrespectful to all the workers there". Who cares if some random poster on a forum hates a particular company. It doesn't affect anything. You seem really bothered by this.
 
The thread kinda breaks my brain from the outlet. MS going for Sony's jugular would imply Sony's throat is exposed to begin with no? The price war talk just sounds like fantasy to me given what's out there about what MS can and can't do atm with kinect and the box as well as manufacturing costs for both systems.
Truth. This thread is a huge trainwreck of the most entertaining videogame-business fanfiction I've seen in a while. A long while. Anywhere on the internet.

Microsoft: HUEHUEHUE I'm DRM! I'm horrible PR! I'm anti-consumer
Gamers: **** off anti-consumer
Microsoft: Hah! I trol u. I was only pretending to be anti-consumer.
This thread: Dude. Microsoft trol u. They were only pretending.
 
Clearly we all need to love MS as much as you do.

Sometimes these threads make me worry. I worry that we don't show MS the love they deserve, and that they may leave. And it is only then, when we are without MS's love and we see the hole in our hearts that we will realize our terrible mistake.

This is my first comment within this thread,

They will likely have a great show but at this point they need a game-changer to get consumers to favor the XBox One. Kinect is vital to them because that's pretty much the only thing that trumps Sony's hardware (when you compare cameras and support for it). Anything shy of them buying out Sega won't change the perception. Sony has the momentum and they know it.

Does this sound like I am some MS fanboy?

lol "disrespectful to all the workers there". Who cares if some random poster hates a particular company. It doesn't affect anything. You seem really bothered by this.

You're right, it doesn't affect anything but it seems like every MS thread I come into he pops up saying the same thing over and over again. Even when the company appoints the best person for the head job and the CEO makes comments about how vital the XBox is to the company he still carries on. I just find it almost laughable how determined some folks are because they hate the company.
 
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