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Digital Foundry vs DriveClub
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
Sounds great technically. What's this bullshit about being "behind the times" because it's not open world?
When's FIFA going open world? All these behind the times sports games.
The more I look at this the more it seems the more positive reviews are accurately evaluating the game for what it is and the lower scoring reviews really seem to be expecting it to be a match for Forza Horizon 2 and have open world model.
Personally I dislike open world apart from specific titles/genres and certainly have minimal interest when it comes to driving games unless title is very off-road centric in approach with suitable vehicles.
This really is becoming a big of a "fad" it seems. Need to jump into the thread on this and avoid de-railing here though.
When's FIFA going open world? All these behind the times sports games.
The more I look at this the more it seems the more positive reviews are accurately evaluating the game for what it is and the lower scoring reviews really seem to be expecting it to be a match for Forza Horizon 2 and have open world model.
Personally I dislike open world apart from specific titles/genres and certainly have minimal interest when it comes to driving games unless title is very off-road centric in approach with suitable vehicles.
This really is becoming a big of a "fad" it seems. Need to jump into the thread on this and avoid de-railing here though.
Nintendo magic? Is that also why MK8's 60fps?
Always-honest
Banned
Why can't people say things without spouting some hyperbolic line of text?
I agree the anti aliassing could have been better, i hate jaggies. But these lines of text man... sadness.
I think you're confusing a low level of AF, depth of field or motion blur with bad textures. Most of the textures in Driveclub appear to be excellent, though naturally if you look for the bad one's, like in any other racer, you will find them.
Digital Foundry said:
Digital Foundry said:
IAmRandom31
Banned
I remember reading a review in EGM back in the day I believe it was, where either the reviewer said a line during a review or the dude who answers letters stated this during an answer, can't remember where exactly it was.
The comment was pretty much, " When a professional reviewer reviews a game, the score he is giving the game is not only a representation of the quality of the product, but it is also scored based on how it compares to VERY SIMILAR products already out on the system / other systems "
that is how it used to be with reviews. Forza would be put up against Gran Turismo because they were directly competing products, similar products. Legend of Dragoon was put up against Final Fantasy. Dragon Quest v Final Fantasy. Columns v. Tetris. Shit like that.
Seems that has shifted these days to comparing a game against anything you want, no matter the differences between the 2 products. But not only doing direct comparisons of 2 products that are not in any way similar, but also docking points from X game because it doesn't incorporate the style of Y game.
It is very ... very odd current behavior that I've not seen before to be honest.
Allez Phill
Banned
This is all I'm seeing. I dont think that comment meant much.
sörine;133416965 said:
No,it's that futuristic 720p that gives it the 59fps magic
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-vs-mario-kart-8
travisbickle
Member
Can someone help me with the AF point?
Why are the road lines clear into the distance if the game doesn't employ Anisotropic filtering?
Why are the road lines clear into the distance if the game doesn't employ Anisotropic filtering?
CyclopsRock
Member
I'm not sure you justified your "So yeah, naturally" to explain why people are becomming "very sensitive" about the opinion of a person writing about a game's graphics. It doesn't seem like anyone has a problem with their graphical analysis, simply the fact that - having done this effectively, which is what everyone's there for - they then gave their opinion which appears to be different to a lot of those here. "Very sensitive" indeed.
The DF analisys doesn't have a rating at the end. The DF analysis for MK8 doesn't praise the game for having circuits. The open-world sentence it's just this, a sentence, it has no impact in the overall analysis. Probably driven by the desire of exploring the wonderful scenery. It's totally irrelevant.
They mentioned some of the flows, but didn't put too much emphasis on them (as DF articles do sometimes - take the frame skip in MK8 analysis, if we're going to do that comparison anyhow). They didn't stumped the game for being a racer at 30fps. People should rather happy for this article, because it presents the game as being great on visual and technical level.
Horse Armour
Member
WOW! I would have thought this type of stuff would have been left behind in the last gen.
Reminds me of GT5.
Reminds me of GT5.
Unknown One
Member
Quicktime events!
Nobody is sensitive about their graphics analysis, but at their grotesque garbage open world comment at the end. Because they just had to ensure even their tech article was sullied by the abominable bullshit that infected so many reviews for this game.
But I'm sure you actually understand what is going on and are just pretending to be willfully ignorant about it
not just bad.. really bad. The over all IQ isn't good enough to be called "great" or "outstanding".
It's good in a way. The less and less people give a shit about, or give merit to gaming journalism and reviews in general, the better. Personally I think the divide and discrepancy of opinions between gamers and journalists has never been greater than it presently is today, especially on tertiary elements of gaming like DRM, anti-consumer conduct and things of such ilk. With most (not all) journalists sooner coming out to criticise and berate gamers than they are to defend and represent them.
I think that because the CPU is quite weak already. Look at what they are doing and if they are managing all of this simulation on the CPU itself then massive props to them.
1) AI
2) Physics
3) Lighting
4) Volumetric clouds
5) Reflections
6) Wind
7) Water
8) More I am probably forgetting.
That just seems like a lot for 6 Jaguar cores to handle and some of these are perfect territory for GPU compute to bring a benefit to. Of course that does not mean they are using it at all I just suspect that to be the case.
CyclopsRock
Member
"Grotesque garbage"? "Abominable bullshit"? What are you talking about, Amir0x?! Clearly this is something about which you care a great deal, but surely it's also something about which you can acknowledge sensible people can disagree? That one can prefer open world racing games over track ones and that this isn't demonstrable of a severe mental illness? As such, I don't see what the problem of someone who - having done their job and done it well - then goes on to give their personal opinion. You can't even hide behind the oft-given "but publishers decide what games to make based on metacritic" strawman that people use to suggest that reviewers have an obligation to give a certain score so as to ensure that certain games get made irrespective of whether the reviewer actually believes that or not; there is no score here. This isn't changing any publisher's budgetary decisions. This isn't torpedoing Project Car's console port. This is some random guy giving his opinion that happens to be attached to the bottom of a graphical analysis. But yeah, you're right - it's an "infection" of "abominable bullshit".
Yeah, definitely. Because of... my... agenda? I don't care, personally - I like open world racing games, I like non-open world racing games. It's not like we're lacking in good quality example of either, nor are we lacking in arcade track games vs simulation games. So no, be assured - my ignorance of the logic behind your argument is entirely genuine.
FonkyByNature
Member
haha true, i like the comparison !
There are some games that do make the experience better by being open world (adventure exploration type of games), racing games are definitely not, in fact it makes it worse for me.
I feel sorry for the Project Cars devs.
The poor guys are going to have their great racing game marked down for not being open-world
Let's hope Bernie Ecclestone starts approving open world F1 races, because if not Codemasters is done with that too. Poor guys stuck with the past design of track racing just because of a stupid license.
One can prefer open world racing games to closed track ones. One may not fucking review a game that is a closed circuit racer and criticize it for not being open world. Not unless you want your opinion to ever in life be taken seriously.
Criticism is the art of analyzing something on the merits of what it is attempting to achieve, not the art of fantasizing all the ways you wish you were experiencing something completely different but you're not so you just decide to shit on this one instead because you're (read: the people who keep pathetically listing this 'issue' in their reviews) so goddamn incompetent you can't even deconstruct the various merits of each approach to the genre you're analyzing.
This is PCARS screenshot :
https://translate.google.hr/transla...rs-nastavljati-ocaravati-grafikom/&edit-text=
https://translate.google.hr/transla...rs-nastavljati-ocaravati-grafikom/&edit-text=
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Oh man am I behind the time, considering racing games are almost always more fun to me when they are on set tracks. The tracks need to besigned well of course, but thinking back at the last NfS I'm getting sick in the stomach. The only time I had fun with an open world in a racing game was the overworld in Diddy Kong Racing (where you didn't do much racing and if you did you were basically on a set track anyway) and Crazy Taxi.
not just bad.. really bad. The over all IQ isn't good enough to be called "great" or "outstanding".
Jesus that looks awful. Not that I really care that much about graphics, but for a game being praised so heavily for its looks it's kinda eye opening.
XGoldenboyX
Member
THANK YOU
I AGREE ! What is this thing about open world , Im a developer and please stop always pretending you guys in the media are the answer for all gamers .... Alot of media today has become of a personal taste thena objective one... pfft!
I love my normal racing games, give me Arcade and Sims.... Ill be more then happy.
flyinpiranha
Member
The criticism for not being open world is just ... mind boggling.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to give it a shot, wasn't up on PSN when I had the chance yesterday ...
Unfortunately I wasn't able to give it a shot, wasn't up on PSN when I had the chance yesterday ...
not just bad.. really bad. The over all IQ isn't good enough to be called "great" or "outstanding".
These are horribly compressed shots. Whilst I don't have any PNG's to share, you can get some semblance of texture work even in these.
I think a lot of the worse textures are not the kind that are easily noticeable, especially during actual gameplay.
This.. Maybe I'm used to playing at higher resolutions/AA options, but I really can't say the IQ in Driveclub is good by any stretch of the imagination. The rest of the game looks nice, especially the ToD and lighting.
ninjablade
Banned
can we leave the open world game crap in the review thread, people over reacting about the comment, are forgetting this is not a review.
Windom Earle
Member
Go to Scotland. That shit is outstanding. As I said the game is inconsistent. It sometimes just looks "ok" and sometimes like the best graphics on console.
Besides this I am glad that the core gameplay is very very good. Just unlocked my first RUF...Holy shit they really nailed the sense of speed.
derExperte
Member
Looks much better in motion. Though then other issues become noticeable and some tracks look worse than others.
It can be a great user experience, but that isn't really the same thing as claiming it's a big step forward in game design and experience. If someone said something like that about Mario 64 or Street Fighter 2, I'd completely understand. Driveclub though? Nah. It looks like it'll give me a user experience comparable to many other racers I've played in the past. I don't consider Ryse a big step forward in game design and user experience simply because it looked prettier than pretty much everything else I'd played either.
I honestly hate seeing this argument. You can have open-world games with tightly designed race courses just as much as you can have closed circuit racers with lazily thrown together tracks. That Project Gotham game everyone raves about, and wants Driveclub to be? That was created using what is essentially an open world, and just blocks off route (similar to something like Forza Horizon). Nearly any closed circuit racing experience could be made as an open world simply by having those corners included within it.
Also... fear of braking? Are you even playing these games before making sweeping claims about them? Braking is extremely important in Horizon 2 (and even TDU)... probably moreso than in stuff like PGR, as there will frequent be no walls to ride. Charge at a sharp corner without braking, and you'll probably find yourself missing the turn entirely, and having to go back and correct yourself.
Seriously, I can understand people having a preference for closed circuit games over open-world games, but there's basically nothing that prevents an open-world game offering the same experiences as a closed-circuit racer. It's not like F1 drivers in real life are unable to escape the confines of their track when the race is over...
ninjablade
Banned
These are horribly compressed shots. Whilst I don't have any PNG's to share, you can get some semblance of texture work even in these.
I think a lot of the worse textures are not the kind that are easily noticeable, especially during actual gameplay.
Those pics look really nice, but nothing amazing.
Right there is weird issues like some random power polls will be aliasesed really badly but the guard rail perfectly smooth.
EDIT: Scrub that. Will turn in to a comparisons thread.
When taken as a whole, Driveclub is easily the pinnacle of racing graphics right now, and it's IQ is still better than, or comparable to most, but not all other next gen console racers. Eg about the same as NFS Shift, and much better than Moto GP14 and Forza 5. Only FH2 has better IQ, but even then it isn't jaggy free and still has poor AF and much worse pop in.
Whatever it takes to get a passable framerate for an arcade racer. Nintendo Magic must really be code for having your priorities in order.
Didn't you know? Open World racing games use a random tracks generator, as casual as it gets
Unfortunately, whoever wrote the article made its sound like a review, at least at the end, so it will be talked about like one.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
The point is that for the longest time, Driveclub is supposed to have amazing IQ.
People are just finding out that in honest, it's not really that great.
The first time I saw a flyover I literally said "wtf?".
Then the graininess of the foliage, the aliasing. I couldn't believe it was the same game people have been able to make 100+ page threads just gushing over image quality.
I'm also pissed that after impression after impression and people having the game for weeks or more, I had to play the game myself to find out. Makes me trust some people a whole lot,less.
I do not think anybody is telling reviewers what to think. They just need to be able to state why they like/dislike something based on more than just their preferences. They need to try and put their personal biases to one side when conducting a review.
If someone who likes open world games reviews a closed circuit racing game and uses the fact it is not open world as a negative they are not really doing their job properly. They can mention that people who like open world games might not be the target audience for this kind of title but to use that as a negative in any way is not really valid.
It is the same with someone who is a really sim racing fanatic who reviews the game, using the fact it is an arcade racing game as a negative is not doing their job but pointing this out and saying that fans of sim racing games may not like it is perfectly fine.
With most of the reviews I have read the criticisms are not really that valid or are based on personal preference. A criticism based entirely on personal preference is not really a criticism but is just an opinion. To say the game has no soul does not really mean anything, to say not being open world is old fashioned is not a negative, to say that not having upgrades or tuning reduces your sense of ownership of the cars is just daft. All of those things are a persons opinion and while it is entirely valid to have those opinions using them as a basis of a review is not.
I like Kyle Orland's review at Ars, he reviews the game for what it is, points out where peoples preferences may steer them towards or away from the game and points out the games strengths and weaknesses.
The fact is I think this technical DF article does a better job of reviewing the game than most other reviews out there and that is a nonsense.
True to an extent, I mean without being able to see the engine code I'm speculating however I doubt this game utilised much if any GPU compute. The AI from what I've encountered is good but relatively speaking racing game AI isnt that complex for a racing game?
Lets say you're a pathfinding algortithms, and while the terrain is I guess quite big, I really wouldnt expect CPU to be humbled by something like this, again if it was open world (I'm honestly not bringing this up anyways shape or form as a corrodor vs open world debate) but the point a to b calculation becomes more of a strain on resources.
Physics... again the most taxing thing I believe you would find in the physics engine is the collision detection system, again this is just speculation, I dont know what type of system they're using but I'm going to assume it's nothing taxing, it's a racing game. You dont need to take into account collision of thousands of different materials and how the interact with each other.
Lighting/Clouds/Reflections... yeah I'll give you this, this can be very CPU intensive, I'm speculating I'd assume this would be the most taxing part of their engine. I dont even know what kind of algorithms you use to calculate something like this, sounds painful lol. Shadow maps aliasing around the shadow maps etc. Headache.
The reason I say all that, not trying undermine the achievement of Driveclub, but in all honesty I'd expect the multi threaded CPU to be able to handle this at a decent level performance. Anyone please do correct me If I'm as I am speculating just from what I know and I'm not game developer.
What I would expect to see from a game using GPU compute is something like tree's, leaves reacting to each car driving by at different speeds... I'm probably being a little unrealistic but you get my drift? I'd expect alot more than what I'm seeing from driveclub if the were using GPU compute power. That said you could be right, they may have just touched on it rather than use it fully.
Guess we will never know
The worst thing about it all, is that PGR's world wasn't even designed. It already existed... and not for the purpose of racing. Forza Horizon's world is actually far more tailored for racing than PGR's ever was.
Sure. And don't forget about "rewind time" feature too. But with current state of physics that would be difficult to implement