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[wanderingprostheyltite]

That Insomniac game is a low budget indie, Oculus only pledged $10m to exclusive indies. That's probably the budget of 1 PSVR game, Sony has AAA games plus Japanese support. PSVR looks to be shaping up pretty well with real games coming up, it looks way more like a finished consumer ready product than the Oculus which couldn't even settle on the controller. Sony's messaging is clear and to the point. Reality will hit Facebook hard when they can't even sell 10% of Zuckerberg's 50 to 100m units sold expectation.

What are you huffin? I want some. I don't think some understand the magnitude of financial support Oculus is getting from Facebook. They're a full fledged all-in VR company, with some of the industry's best and brightest working there and leading their different departments. Also, the final Oculus headset looks very consumer ready, and from reports is even more comfortable than PSVR. The latter may go through more iterations before release but it already looks like a consumer grade shell as is. Finally, they've been fairly conversative about expectations for first gen and adoption rates, plus they're not even relying solely on the Oculus, see Carmack's work on Samsung Gear VR. Sony is going to be good, but so is Oculus. They ain't dickin around over there.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Not saying they haven't made good games, but how much junk have they put out just to put out a game? I'm glad oculus has good people in positions within the company but they are still an unknown as to what quality of product they will put out. They haven't proved what kind of integrity they possess. Will Facebook put up more money to delay or scrap a game because it's crap or will they put it out just to put something out. Insomniac is a good dev but how many of their projects outside of Sony owned ips go the distance. No one talks about sunset overdrive really anymore. I'm just sayin don't count your eggs until they hatch is all. I'm a big fan of r.a Salvatore and 38 studios had a lot of talent attached to it but we all know that didn't turn out very well. We will see but at this point to me they are an unknown quantity not that it really matters to me because I can't stand messing with pc's I threw all of mine out and just use an iPad and my ps4 they just work it's no hassle. So for VR I'll strictly be using psvr.

Dude, what? Sega in it's heyday published and developed some of the best and most influential games of all time.

 

[Danlord]

...

I'm not even gonna address this because it's nonsense FUD only someone completely unfamiliar with PC gaming these days would believe. There are bad ports and faulty hardware on any platform.

I'm not sure why you're dismissing the notion that a business living or dying on VR is a big deal.

Former.
I am completely familiar with PC gaming and software in general, however I understand that not everyone will be nor will some people want to be familiar and the convenience of just buying a console and knowing that is enough is a genuine factor. I do believe that it is going to be a considerable factor for some of the larger gaming audience when deciding if they want to experience VR.

Latter.
I am not completely dismissing the notion so much so as not relying on it as a major factor simply because desire to compete and reliance is not a factor, only a motivation. What Sony are doing in regards to VR is what I was discussing specifically. Sony still have significant funds and resources dedicated to VR and will also have a lot of money riding on it, considering Sony's past financial woes and only recently getting back into some profitability they too have a financial consideration to succeed for VR, but that's only a motivation.

 

[UnwrittenZero]

Dude, what? Sega in it's heyday published and developed some of the best and most influential games of all time.

How many shitty sonic games have they put out? I said they have put out good games in its heyday but you can't tell me they have been on point for awhile. Alien isolation is the exception not the rule now a days. Hopefully they are learning from Altus but even they will say they have fallen along ways and put out junk. I loved sega I loved the dreamcast but all the nostalgia in the world wont blind me and just accept mediocrity.

 

[FunkyLounge]

What are you guys even talking about here at this point?

 

[SMOK3Y]

Sony aren't going to offer a premium ps4 with better specs, it'll just split the user base and make development even harder than it already is. It's clear the VR box is only for the headset, and not to "boost" the PS4 beyond its original configuration.

How does it split the user base?

 

[Thoraxes]

As long as it's region free and plays games from other regions and not some weird BS asspull, I will be there day one along with DOAX3.

 

[panty]

299€ or bust.

 

[autoduelist]

I like this alternate universe you're operating in where people don't already have gaming PCs that are in the exact same position as ps4 owners who will only have to buy a headset. I mean it's just my opinion and none of these are a reality yet but I would bet on Oculus or the Vive over psvr. Open platform, better visuals, steam, porn, etc.

Of course people already have gaming PCs. But we're talking about what could take it mainstream, and mainstream adoption imo will require an absolute plug and play experience like only consoles can offer.

The hardcore will adopt with whatever they already have. It's what gets non-hardcore families buying into it that will make it 'huge'.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Yikes, this just seems to be too expensive to be anything more than niche.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Of course people already have gaming PCs. But we're talking about what could take it mainstream, and mainstream adoption imo will require an absolute plug and play experience like only consoles can offer.

The hardcore will adopt with whatever they already have. It's what gets non-hardcore families buying into it that will make it 'huge'.

And, VR isn't gonna be sold with standard commercials. Like the Wii, this is something that needs to be experienced. Trying this at friends places is how this is going to go mainstream(if at all).

The fact PSVR is better suited to the lounge room, and includes the standard TV output to be a more inclusive experience will help in sharing the experience with others.

 

[Kaako]

I like what I read/see. Price the whole package right, please. You are not allowed to fuck this up.

 

[Bear Force One]

Yikes, this just seems to be too expensive to be anything more than niche.

How much is it?

 

[Jeels]

Here's another guess...

$300 - headset + box

$400 - headset + box + camera + some combination of move and navigation controller

 

[Minions]

Yikes, this just seems to be too expensive to be anything more than niche.

I think to most $399 is/has been expected. If it is more than that then so be it. Vive is expected to be most expensive. The Oculus will cost "at least $350" but many believe it will be $350+.

http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-founder-palmer-luckey-explains-oculus-rift-cost-price-350/

So yeah. These things are not going to be cheap by any means. Cheapest solution would be gearvr... but thats only if you were otherwise already buying a phone, and likely may be less supported.

 

[whitehawk]

If it's $399 or less, I'll likely be there day one.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Here's another guess...

$300 - headset + box

$400 - headset + box + camera + some combination of move and navigation controller

I'm not sure they'll have a pack with Move controllers, since they're not required for every game. Nav controller isn't used AFAIK. It doesn't have any position tracking/gyros or anything.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

How many shitty sonic games have they put out? I said they have put out good games in its heyday but you can't tell me they have been on point for awhile. Alien isolation is the exception not the rule now a days. Hopefully they are learning from Altus but even they will say they have fallen along ways and put out junk. I loved sega I loved the dreamcast but all the nostalgia in the world wont blind me and just accept mediocrity.

You really need to familiarize yourself with more of their catalogue if you think their legacy is only Sonic or even what Dreamcast games you're familiar with. Outrun, Sonic and Sega All Stars Transformed, Hang-On, Flicky, Panzer Dragoon Saga, PD Zwei, Outrunners, Daytona, Scud Race, NiGHTS, Ristar, Streets of Rage, Vectorman, Comix Zone, Phantasy Star IV, Castle of Illusion, MonsterWorld IV, Beyond Oasis, Legend of Oasis, Virtua Fighter 2/3/4/5, Shenmue, Virtua Racing, Virtual On, Space Channel 5, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, Toejam and Earl, Sega Rally, Clockwork Knight, Ecco the Dolphin, Rez, Shadow Dancer, Shinobi III, Burning Rangers and plenty of others.

If you mean Sega of today, then please say that. Such was probably your intention but too often I see people who word it loosely to just shit on the company's entire catalogue or downplay it, and that's absolutely maddening. Eventually others just join in b/c that's what some other person started doing, and it becomes a virus.

It's particularly nasty when I see certain diehard Nintendo fans do it b/c you'd think they'd know better, and then I have to come off like a jackass spewing about Nintendo's flaws when in reality I really like both them and Sega just about equally, but can't stand by and see shit get smeared on one side of the street when shit shouldn't be getting smeared at all.

 

[BennyBlanco]

You really need to familiarize yourself with more of their catalogue if you think their legacy is only Sonic or even what Dreamcast games you're familiar with. Outrun, Sonic and Sega All Stars Transformed, Hang-On, Flicky, Panzer Dragoon Saga, PD Zwei, Outrunners, Daytona, Scud Race, NiGHTS, Ristar, Streets of Rage, Vectorman, Comix Zone, Phantasy Star IV, Castle of Illusion, MonsterWorld IV, Beyond Oasis, Legend of Oasis, Virtua Fighter 2/3/4/5, Shenmue, Virtua Racing, Virtual On, Space Channel 5, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxi, Toejam and Earl, Sega Rally, Clockwork Knight, Ecco the Dolphin, Rez, Shadow Dancer, Shinobi III, Burning Rangers and plenty of others.

If you mean Sega of today, then please say that. Such was probably your intention but too often I see people who word it loosely to just shit on the company's entire catalogue or downplay it, and that's absolutely maddening. Eventually others just join in b/c that's what some other person started doing, and it becomes a virus.

It's particularly nasty when I see certain diehard Nintendo fans do it b/c you'd think they'd know better, and then I have to come off like a jackass spewing about Nintendo's flaws when in reality I really like both them and Sega just about equally, but can't stand by and see shit get smeared on one side of the street when shit shouldn't be getting smeared at all.

I was thinking back even further than that.... Hang On, Space Harrier, Outrun, etc. Legends in the industry tbh.

 

[Pif]

So the headset is always tethered to the box? Wtf?

 

[boredandlazy]

So the headset is always tethered to the box? Wtf?

Well, yeah? How did you envision it would work?

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I was thinking back even further than that.... Hang On, Space Harrier, Outrun, etc. Legends in the industry tbh.

Underrated too. If technology were where it's at today back then, and different tech industries as unified and standardized then as they are today, things maybe would've worked out different for them.

Alas that's not how it played out, but that legacy is forever imo.

 

[Neuromancer]

Yikes, this just seems to be too expensive to be anything more than niche.

?

There is literally nothing in the OP that suggests what the price is going to be.

 

[down 2 orth]

Interesting thread, but some of the Sega talk seems like a conscious effort to derail the points being made that Sony is better positioned for VR than Facebook.

 

[Fisty]

If Sony can bite the bullet and get the basic headset on shelves for $300, i think we will see very promising early adoption numbers. They can really push VR as a medium alot faster that way, and I really hope they go for it.

 

[Chanser]

So the headset is always tethered to the box? Wtf?

Were you expecting wireless?

 

[DjRalford]

If Sony can bite the bullet and get the basic headset on shelves for $300, i think we will see very promising early adoption numbers. They can really push VR as a medium alot faster that way, and I really hope they go for it.

If they get it in at a good price, and a good experience, it'll fly off shelves and literally print them money.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Interesting thread, but some of the Sega talk seems like a conscious effort to derail the points being made that Sony is better positioned for VR than Facebook.

Wouldn't know much about any o' that; personally don't wanna be the thread derailer; I just jumped into my Old School Sega Defense™ mode b/c my senses were telling me to do so.

On topic, of course Sony's in a better position. They're a hardware company; they have the assembly pipelines and know-how. Facebook has never made a tangible physical product and Oculus is a small company that hasn't put out a consumer-level hardware either. Certainly that's not all there is to being successful with VR, just like how not having prior experience in managing a games console hurt Sony when they eventually took over w/ PlayStation.

But said experience can't be understated, and provides a gained edge. OTOH, Oculus has the Facebook brand behind him, and that shouldn't be something to sneeze at either.

 

[Rentahamster]

My body is ready (for a second job).


Ken was right!

 

[thekiddfran]

Very good move by sony, as a xbox fanboy I gotta say that I'm just a little bit jealous. Sony is making it pretty hard to not want a PS4.

Ha wut?

 

[bj00rn_]

What's stopping devs from using the reprojection algorithm on regular PS4 games to get higher FPS?

I don't know every tiny detail of Sony's application. But it's logical to think that reprojection degrades image quality because it's a extrapolation of existing rendered data. Only new information being injected is position, thus reprojection basically is a 2D warp of the last frame rendered. That's why Sony says "depending on game design", because the less new data introduced in the scene which cannot be extrapolated the less degradation.

 

[hesido]

What's stopping devs from using the reprojection algorithm on regular PS4 games to get higher FPS?

60hz is stopping it.

The application of this technique would be to get higher fps, could only be applied to 30fps games, where the delta between positions is higher compared to a 60fps game, between each frame, so you get much bigger artefacts (edit: and that's only currently being used for, AFAIK, camera position / orientation) so animation would still be 30hz in the reprojection - read further below)

The current reprojection technique does not necessarily ensure 120hz animation either, from what I've read so far, it's a repositioning of the virtual camera in the scene to more accurately translate your head position / orientation in the real world. So without morphing the animation / skinning information and object positions between each frame, this will be letting you look at a world that's running at 60hz, but update the view position 120times.

Btw, 120hz games can use reprojection too, to lessen the impact of latency even further than an actual 120hz update can.

Edit 2: Actually, this technique might be used to mitigate double frames in a 60fps game (failing to meet 16 ms, the previous frame could be reprojected so not an entirely same frame is shown, although animations and object positions in the world would still belong to the previous frame, which could create a jarring effect as this would only happen intermittently on particular frames.)

 

[martino]

If the box only sends converted signal for tv (according to interview) it is useless in a lot of case and must not be mandatory imo.

 

[AmyS]

If the box only sends converted signal for tv (according to interview) it is useless in a lot of case and must not be mandatory imo.

but the box will be part of the PSVR package, and I believe it is necessary for PSVR to work. All the sensor data is processed by the break out box and passed to PS4.

 

[hesido]

If the box only sends converted signal for tv (according to interview) it is useless in a lot of case and must not be mandatory imo.

They need some sort of breakout box for the convenience alone. You'd be re-connecting the HDMI everytime if they hadn't provided it, even if they provided some kind of simple repeater in some SKU's for those that don't want the TV views, it would be again an added type of SKU which will probably be even more complicated (Those with camera, those without, those with move contollers(?), those without, and now with the breakout box, without the breakout box).

Making it optional would also mean further splitting a what is going to be small user base at least definitely in the first years of the products life, and would be detrimental for devs who want to make use of the "social" aspect of the product, and sharing feed of the game that's viewable by everyone in the room is one of product's defining features so far.

So I don't even consider this a possibility, to not have that box.

Edit: Dammit guys, it's not a secret sauce box, forgot what this thread was. The box needs to have some processing power as it needs to format the fish eye view into the TV view, and do this flexibly (different settings for different games), and it has to relay a second view if the dev chooses to do so (entirely different view from the 3d view sent to the headset), and do this without adding a hell lot of latency. So it's not a dumb box, but not secret sauce GPU.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

The headset is wired, right? Or is it wireless?

 

[Terbinator]

I'm done I'll take the word of the guy who's working with the unit over some forum poster.

Delicious.

 

[Pif]

Were you expecting wireless?

Isn't that how oculus is gonna work?

It kinda breaks the mobility, I'll be always afraid to pull on the cables and destroy something. Imagine Wii coming out with tethered controls.

 

[thesuperfunk]

599

 

[Nikodemos]

Sony are smart for doubling down on 3D sound. It's extremely immersive and helps improve the VR experience.

OTOH I can only curse Creative with the power of 1000 suns for killing 3D audio on PC. I can (or could, before my old desktop blew up) go into an old game and switch to Aureal3D processing in the settings, and my nForce Soundstorm would sound better than 75% of new games today. And that's using 12 years old tech.

599

Spoiler

Includes PS4, 1 Dualshock, 2 Move wands, PSCamera and VR helmet+box.

 

[virtualS]

I'd happily drop $700 on this... that's how much I want something different.

 

[Key2001]

Isn't that how oculus is gonna work?

Nope, here is a pic of the consumer version of the Oculus Rift.

Also Palmer Luckey (Founder of Oculus VR) tweeted this earlier today.

Cables are going to be a major obstacle in the VR industry for a long time. Mobile VR will be successful long before PC VR goes wireless.

https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/660967174597545985?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[DieH@rd]

That's pretty interesting. I wonder what sort of processing it actually handles?

All the box does is
1. take the reprojected render from PS4 and sends it to VR unit
2. 3D spatial audio processing
3. Sensor data processing
4. Video optical correction for TV

It is being described as powerful because it is doing all that in real time with very little latency. It is getting improved because it is a Sony designed PU (processing Unit) that is constantly being tweaked for better performance.

The slides do not say otherwise

This.

But it does do extra processing that can improve the game..

Offloading 3D sound
Re sampling sensors then shifting the images
Generating synthetic 120fps

The bolded part is done on the PS4 itself.

I'd happily drop $700 on this... that's how much I want something different.

For $700 you will most probably be able to to buy PS4+PSVR [maybe without Moves, they are not required].

 

[Majanew]

Since the headset is tethered, I have to decide how I'm going to use it. Will the cable be long enough to sit back on my couch with the breakout box sitting next to my PS4 that's 9' away? Then I'll have to make sure no one (or dog) trips over the cable while I'm in a VR trance.

Also, are headphones required or just recommended?

 

[Noisepurge]

Just a "powerful unit"??? I am dissapointed that they do not use industry-leading tech here...

Industry leading CHIPS man, they're called chips here in the industry!

 

[Smushroomed]

This is cool

 

[majik13]

....wait a minute. Are you saying Media Molecules Dreams can be experienced in VR? Is that official?

Alex(MM dev, don't remeber his past name)on twitter confirmed it. So practically official.
Though we don't know too what capacity it is used.
Just creation mode maybe?

 

[Graphics Horse]

What's stopping devs from using the reprojection algorithm on regular PS4 games to get higher FPS?

Some games do a variation on that using more complicated reprojections which handle full 3d movement instead of just camera turning. Killzone Shadowfall multiplayer does it and mixes the result in with half the pixels of a new frame every 60th.

 

[dr_rus]

I'd happily drop $700 on this... that's how much I want something different.

There are dozens of you on this planet, dozens!

 

[kyser73]

So the big news is the breakout box also processes Binaural sound, and reprojection takes a few cycles of GPU compute.