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[mrklaw]

They have lots of experienced industry guys there. Lots. And are you implying Sega hasn't published good games? whaaa



I like this alternate universe you're operating in where people don't already have gaming PCs that are in the exact same position as ps4 owners who will only have to buy a headset. I mean it's just my opinion and none of these are a reality yet but I would bet on Oculus or the Vive over psvr. Open platform, better visuals, steam, porn, etc.

Open platform is potentially a negative in the case of VR. Up to now, people being able to tinker with settings on PC is ok for developers, as end users can adjust to try and get the right balance of detail vs framerate for their personal tastes.

With VR there needs to be more control with clear minimum framerates. So maybe developers will have to work harder to manage the settings. Or alternatively end users will need to be much more careful about adjusting settings.

This is something the PS4 should be much better at for consumers, being a fixed target. No, it isn't as powerful as some PCs, but in this specific case of hitting and maintaining framerates, that might not be a bad thing.

 

[mrdeiz]

seems to be the best playing option so far. And the list of supported games to be released in 2016 is pretty much incredible https://www.reddit.com/r/playstationvr/comments/3r4qc1/confirmed_playstationvr_games/

 

[Hasney]

Tempted to grab a Vive at this point, just because I think PC will have a better long term future, but I'm going to hold out. Someone might be able to make PSVR work with PC's then I'll just need to buy the one.

It's either that or wait to see if PSVR gets support outside of Sony beyond the first couple of years.

 

[mrklaw]

Oh really? They released the budget? Insomniac Games is now an indie dev? What are you on about m8? That 10m budget is for actual indie developers and independent (heh) of deals like the one with Insomniac as far I can tell from the press releases.




I'm not even gonna address this because it's nonsense FUD only someone completely unfamiliar with PC gaming these days would believe. There are bad ports and faulty hardware on any platform.

I'm not sure why you're dismissing the notion that a business living or dying on VR is a big deal.

'Lol drivers' is perhaps an overused phrase when people criticise game, and things are much better than e bad old days of editing config.sys files. But in this case it isn't necessarily unfounded - oculus rift DK2 has been a real pain in the arse for many people getting it to smoothly integrate with their PCs. I'm sure the retail version will be way smoother, but there have been problems and it isn't just misdirected FUD

 

[marmoka]

It will be quite expensive :'(

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Industry leading CHIPS man, they're called chips here in the industry!

Ah, copy that. U stil got that reference .

 

[Dazza]

I'm not sure they'll have a pack with Move controllers, since they're not required for every game. Nav controller isn't used AFAIK. It doesn't have any position tracking/gyros or anything.

The navigation controller is actually mentioned on the slides in the OP, granted I haven't see it used in any games yet. Sony really missed a beat not adding motion sensors and a tracking orb to it as well, would have made it infinitely more useful.

Someone might be able to make PSVR work with PC's then I'll just need to buy the one.

This was original one of my conditions for a day one purchase, but with the way things are shaping up I hope no one releases PC support until at least a little down the track otherwise the PSVR is going to be out of stock and impossible to buy.


There is more reasons to have the break out box than just mirroring the PSVR output, since Sony already has a few a asymmetrical local multiplayer games in Playroom VR. All fans of VR should be happy Sony has a stake, the have by far the best consumer focus and PR so far. That type of exposure will benefit all VR suppliers and developers.

 

[hesido]

The navigation controller is actually mentioned on the slides in the OP, granted I haven't see it used in any games yet. Sony really missed a beat not adding motion sensors and a tracking orb to it as well, would have made it infinitely more useful.
.

All they had to do was not have any navigational controller, have analogue stick on the move, and sell those in pairs. BOOM. Problem would have been solved. But they had to screw that one.

 

[Pifje]

Is this "reprojection" just a new fancy word for motion interpolation to bump 60 fps to 120 fps?

 

[travisbickle]

Tempted to grab a Vive at this point, just because I think PC will have a better long term future, but I'm going to hold out. Someone might be able to make PSVR work with PC's then I'll just need to buy the one.

It's either that or wait to see if PSVR gets support outside of Sony beyond the first couple of years.

As long as VR exists, I think 3rd parties will release on all VR devices. There's no reason to cut off PSVR, and we know there's 200 devs already developing for it.

PC is better if you're creating content and want VR porn, but I reckon as long as consumer VR content lasts PSVR will get games.

 

[Aaron]

'Lol drivers' is perhaps an overused phrase when people criticise game, and things are much better than e bad old days of editing config.sys files. But in this case it isn't necessarily unfounded - oculus rift DK2 has been a real pain in the arse for many people getting it to smoothly integrate with their PCs. I'm sure the retail version will be way smoother, but there have been problems and it isn't just misdirected FUD

As someone with a DK2, I can confirm the driver situation is currently a mess, especially if you're running Windows 10. Support for around half of the games and demos is completely broken, and I needed to install specific Nvidia drivers... and then reinstall them after I found out that Nvidia's new 3d vision drivers keep the oculus from working properly. Less cards are supported now also. If you're still running windows 7-8 you can roll back to the old oculus drivers, but you won't get the benefits of all the shit they did fix. With how things are now, I seriously don't know how they'll make this easy for consumers early next year.

 

[hesido]

Is this "reprojection" just a new fancy word for motion interpolation to bump 60 fps to 120 fps?

More like a position interpolation in the 3d scene based on the latest head tracking. Which can also be used at display's native (120hz) frequencies, and does not need information from the next frame.

 

[pastrami]

Is this "reprojection" just a new fancy word for motion interpolation to bump 60 fps to 120 fps?

It's a fancy new word for asynchronous time warp.

 

[hesido]

It's a fancy new word for asynchronous time warp.

Asynchronous time warp is more like a fancy word for re-projection. (Though the former sounds a bit broader)

 

[Filter]

Is this "reprojection" just a new fancy word for motion interpolation to bump 60 fps to 120 fps?

Sort of, but it's using the positional tracking data for the New frame and a depth map from the previous frame to figure out where to shift the pixels.

Motion interpolation would be getting the previous frame and the upcoming frame and making an Inbetween frame that is a mix of them right?

That would work for pre rendered stuff like movies, but That wouldn't work for games because the next frame hasn't been made yet. If it had it would defeat the purpose of making a quick Inbetween frame.

 

[Rosur]

Tempted to grab a Vive at this point, just because I think PC will have a better long term future, but I'm going to hold out. Someone might be able to make PSVR work with PC's then I'll just need to buy the one.

It's either that or wait to see if PSVR gets support outside of Sony beyond the first couple of years.

For the 1st gen VR I think PS VR will be the best place to play VR.

Then 2nd gen go for Occulus/ whatever becomes the main player in the PC space as graphics cards good enough for VR wont be too expensive.

 

[DieH@rd]

Is this "reprojection" just a new fancy word for motion interpolation to bump 60 fps to 120 fps?

Not quite.

Reprojection takes in account the latest head motion tracking data just before "fake" frame is sent to the display. Engine renders normal frame using latest trackign data and sends it to the PSVR screen. Then engine samples new tracking data, grabs duplicate of last fully rendered frame, shows it on screen again but offsets it [nudges it up, down, left or right, or any combination] so that it matches the brand new rotation position of the user's head. Then it renders brand new frame and sends it to the display. Then it reprojects that frame using latest tracking data. In one second there is 60 original frames and 60 reprojected ones, all drawn to correct viewpoint position of the user's head.

Our brain smooths out the majority of errors that can be introduced with this technique, but some bad things we can percieve [not dealbreakers though].

edit - Just to make it more clear, rendering of new frames happens all the time without stops, while reprojection is a "side task" that happens quickly in the background at regular intervals.

 

[Dazza]

All they had to do was not have any navigational controller, have analogue stick on the move, and sell those in pairs. BOOM. Problem would have been solved. But they had to screw that one.

Yeah that would have done it too

 

[TTP]

Is this "reprojection" just a new fancy word for motion interpolation to bump 60 fps to 120 fps?

Not really. It's more complext than that.

 

[Quaz51]

All the box does is
1. take the reprojected render from PS4 and sends it to VR unit
2. 3D spatial audio processing
3. Sensor data processing
4. Video optical correction for TV

i think it's more like this:

4. Video splitting/cropping/rescaling at 60hz for TV
5. Optical/chromatic distortion at 120hz for VR screen (probably the most heavy process of the box)

 

[Sidewinder]

All they had to do was not have any navigational controller, have analogue stick on the move, and sell those in pairs. BOOM. Problem would have been solved. But they had to screw that one.

I told them exactly that soon after the move reveal on their blogs, but nobody listened!

 

[Planet]

The Oculus Rift is not 1440p. The consumer model is going to be 2160×1200 split over two displays.

If the final model is still PenTile like the current versions, the PlayStation VR will have a subpixel resolution advantage over it!

1920 * 1080 * 3 = 6220800
2160 * 1200 * 2 = 5184000

Also the PC would have to render more pixels only to lose some detail. I always said that PenTile on a phone is fine with high enough resolution, as you will not get close and use a lense to analyse the detail - but that is literally what you do with VR.

 

[UrbanRats]

If the final model is still PenTile like the current versions, the PlayStation VR will have a subpixel resolution advantage over it!

1920 * 1080 * 3 = 6220800
2160 * 1200 * 2 = 5184000

Also the PC would have to render more pixels only to lose some detail. I always said that PenTile on a phone is fine with high enough resolution, as you will not get close and use a lense to analyse the detail - but that is literally what you do with VR.

What is the reason for Oculus to be still using PenTile? Samsung is doing their panels, no? You'd think they'd have little problem implementing better screens.

 

[tuxfool]

If the final model is still PenTile like the current versions, the PlayStation VR will have a subpixel resolution advantage over it!

1920 * 1080 * 3 = 6220800
2160 * 1200 * 2 = 5184000

Also the PC would have to render more pixels only to lose some detail. I always said that PenTile on a phone is fine with high enough resolution, as you will not get close and use a lense to analyse the detail - but that is literally what you do with VR.

It isn't quite that simple. Green will have a superior resolution than the PSVR, blue and red will have a lower resolution.

 

[Sulik2]

Fantastic news. I'm in for one now. No way stuck PS4 could handle VR. Now the question is can non VR games use the box for a performance boost?

 

[tuxfool]

Now the question is can non VR games use the box for a performance boost?

Sigh. Somebody hasn't been reading the thread. This isn't secret sauce type stuff.

 

[Planet]

It isn't quite that simple. Green will have a superior resolution than the PSVR, blue and red will have a lower resolution.

I was just counting subpixels, not sorted by color.

So you say it will be PenTile and RGBG to be precise? There also is RGBW with a white subpixel, don't know how popular that became, stopped following that topic a few years back.

 

[Dreamwriter]

As someone with a DK2, I can confirm the driver situation is currently a mess, especially if you're running Windows 10. Support for around half of the games and demos is completely broken, and I needed to install specific Nvidia drivers... and then reinstall them after I found out that Nvidia's new 3d vision drivers keep the oculus from working properly. Less cards are supported now also. If you're still running windows 7-8 you can roll back to the old oculus drivers, but you won't get the benefits of all the shit they did fix. With how things are now, I seriously don't know how they'll make this easy for consumers early next year.

You are quite mistaken here. DK2 is currently very easy to install and use, the driver situation is great. When you say half the games and demos are completely broken, that was basically on purpose, it isn't a driver problem - Oculus changed their pre-release Rift driver to be *much* more consumer friendly and also more powerful for developers at the same time. They basically made the Rift plug-and-play-easy to use, where before it was a horrible mess, with players having to choose between manually extending their Windows desktop over the Rift as if it were a second monitor or using a "Direct" mode, and some apps worked well one way, some worked well the other way, some were different for different people. This change is very much for the better for both consumers and developers; it broke compatibility for existing apps, but all those app developers have to do is recompile with the new SDK to fix it. This is normal for a pre-release SDK, and is one of the reasons Oculus recommended that only developers purchase a DK2, because it wasn't consumer-ready. As for the nVidia driver situation, that was fixed within a month after Windows 10's release, you don't need to download any specific driver anymore.

As of now the Oculus Rift is already easy for new consumers - plug in the headset and camera, install the driver, and then just run Rift games and apps compiled with the new SDK, they just work. It'll be even better with the consumer Rift next year, since it'll have its own Steam-like interface for finding and downloading apps.

I was just counting subpixels, not sorted by color.

So you say it will be PenTile and RGBG to be precise? There also is RGBW with a white subpixel, don't know how popular that became, stopped following that topic a few years back.

Nobody knows what screen the consumer Rift uses, if it'll be Pentile or not. DK2 used RGBG, which was obvious in Elite Dangerous, where its default orange HUD was hard to read but changing it to green made it very clear.

 

[tuxfool]

I was just counting subpixels, not sorted by color.

So you say it will be PenTile and RGBG to be precise? There also is RGBW with a white subpixel, don't know how popular that became, stopped following that topic a few years back.

If they're using Samsung PenTile panels, they'll be using a configuration like this:

http://www.displaymate.com/Diamond_29.html

It isn't the same configuration as the original PenTile implementations.

 

[Danlord]

For those not completely understand what asynchronous time-warp is or how it does it, this video I found to be very detailed and easy to understand; well presented;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvtEXMlQQtI

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Open platform is potentially a negative in the case of VR. Up to now, people being able to tinker with settings on PC is ok for developers, as end users can adjust to try and get the right balance of detail vs framerate for their personal tastes.

With VR there needs to be more control with clear minimum framerates. So maybe developers will have to work harder to manage the settings. Or alternatively end users will need to be much more careful about adjusting settings.

This is something the PS4 should be much better at for consumers, being a fixed target. No, it isn't as powerful as some PCs, but in this specific case of hitting and maintaining framerates, that might not be a bad thing.

In the case of Oculus, they've told developers to target the 970. Every VR dev knows they need to be locked at 90fps on Oculus and Vive. Those 2 targets have been made abundantly clear to developers by Oculus, so if it isn't possible to achieve that on a 970, then the devs have fucked up, and devs fucking up optimization is far from a PC-only problem.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Were you expecting wireless?

TBH I was, personally. Always-wired could create a problem and I accidentally trip over the wire and disconnect it, and it's not like I'm a clumsy person.

Can't be the only one who has this worry. If I'm immersed in a VR world, how am I going to keep attention to a cord that isn't part of that world?

 

[backbreaker65]

TBH I was, personally. Always-wired could create a problem and I accidentally trip over the wire and disconnect it, and it's not like I'm a clumsy person.

Can't be the only one who has this worry. If I'm immersed in a VR world, how am I going to keep attention to a cord that isn't part of that world?

I think the cables should come with clips to attach to your clothing or your belt. That is the easiest and cheapest way to tether the wires and keep them out of the users way.

Palmer Lucky(Oculus) tweeted the obstacle of overcoming cables for PC and PSVR just yesterday.

https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/660967174597545985
Cables are going to be a major obstacle in the VR industry for a long time. Mobile VR will be successful long before PC VR goes wireless.

https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/660967443616018432
It is important to design both hardware and software with those limitations in mind. Real users won't have cable servants.

https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/660967704757571585

And I say this as someone who has spent many hours as a cable servant, dancing cables around users to keep them immersed!

 

[Vashetti]

I assume it will be the port that the PlayStation Eye currently occupies.

A splitter?

Otherwise the camera would not track the move controllers etc

I thought the Eye camera plugs into the breakout box?

 

[Deleted member 22576]

What that's crazy.

 

[Neuromancer]

Also Palmer Luckey (Founder of Oculus VR) tweeted this earlier today.



https://twitter.com/PalmerLuckey/status/660967174597545985?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Mobile VR has its own issues though, like overheating and short battery life. I can't remember if the new Gear VR has a fan built in, or not.

 

[Vashetti]

Brightened the image:

 

[MemoryHumanity]

Brightened the image:

That's just a Micro USB Cable. Other end plugs into the PS4. PlayStation Camera plugs into the PS4 still.

 

[Danlord]

Brightened the image:

The USB will connect to the one of the PS4's USB 3.0 ports.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Clearly the HMD connects wired to the box but the box WIRELESSLY connects to PS4!

 

[fastmower]

For those not completely understand what asynchronous time-warp is or how it does it, this video I found to be very detailed and easy to understand; well presented;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvtEXMlQQtI

Thanks for posting! That was very educational.

 

[Tripolygon]

Clearly the HMD connects to the box but the box WIRELESSLY connects to PS4!

NO

On another note, here is PSVR discussion panel from PGW
https://youtu.be/6K2_x2YaqSw

 

[Danlord]

Thanks for posting! That was very educational.

He has another educational video where he looks into faked foveated rendering or multi-resolution shading and I think PSVR will be using something like given the information about the optics of the PSVR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YWJyhA7-es

 

[Xaero Gravity]

I have a feeling the potentially high price point is going to end up turning a lot of people off.

 

[AndyD]

Still no mention of a Move 2.0 If it doesn't get announced at the very start of 2016, I guess its not happening.

It may get announced/launched at the same time as VR. No real need for it to come early. That said, I am still holding onto mine for now to see what happens.

 

[Mindlog]

Price it wherever and get it right. Tired of all this random 'need to hit the mass market' nonsense. VR has taken decades to get to this point. What's one more?

So the big news is the breakout box also processes Binaural sound, and reprojection takes a few cycles of GPU compute.

I've been very disappointed with the progress of sound design this gen. We were promised so much during those early press conferences and yet there have been so few standouts since. VR is the last hope to push audio forward :\

 

[zephyrsquall]

This made my day. Thank you

 

[BadWolf]

It may get announced/launched at the same time as VR. No real need for it to come early. That said, I am still holding onto mine for now to see what happens.

There has been an indication of a Move 2.0 coming?

I thought they were just going to roll with the original.

 

[Vena]

After the past week's Beastcast, the fact that an extra box exists makes me think the price is going to be high, very high. When they were discussing this in terms of price on the podcast, the discussion had a caveat of "box or no box" and box present was sending some estimates into the $400's and, I guess, theoretically above.

So now I am really curious how the price of this thing is going to shake out.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There has been an indication of a Move 2.0 coming?

I thought they were just going to roll with the original.

http://www.sonyrumors.net/2015/06/13/leaked-playstation-move-2-for-morpheus-to-be-revealed-at-e3/