JumpJeff84
Member
Is 'untasteful' a word?
Is 'untasteful' a word?
Uh, wouldn't the Tomahawk outfit itself being the one guilty of cultural appropriation?
Removal of Native American mascots and imagery is not considered censorship.
Thoughts on this?
I find this very untasteful considering how natives were genocided and their culture was almost completely destroyed in the US.
Sadly, this fear of offending minorities is one of the reasons that so many minority characters in games are cut, or never planned to begin with.
Isn't Jonathan Holmes black?
You don't kill them. They just teach you the ability after you beat them.Damn that makes it sounds worse. You kill a Native American and dress up like them, or you kill a Native American and you run around as a cowboy.
I don't think he's ever said exactly, but he definitely looks part black at least.Isn't Jonathan Holmes black?
So, this isn't even confirmed yet?
lol
They already have the Ranger class for that.
So is a viable alternative to simply erase them from all representation in media?I'd be okay with this if true. Turning First Nations cultures into a class or a costume really wouldn't fly.
They removed the underboob.
As someone with Canadian First Nation's ancestry, this kind of stuff really rubs me the wrong way. It's such a half hearted effort when they're only changing the costume for some regions and not all.
The former reads like something someone who doesn't actually understand what people are complaining about in these situations trying to imagine how being offended works, and the second one is a bullshit excuse given disingenuously by people who never wanted to include minority characters in the first place.
So is a viable alternative to simply erase them from all representation in media?
So is a viable alternative to simply erase them from all representation in media?
The character job in question was about as embarrassing and poorly-thought-out an example of cultural appropriation as you can get these days. It doesn't even have the excuse of being called something like "Warrior" and just using a Native style; it's literally named something intended to convey this idea of a magical Indian warrior to an audience that doesn't know anything about indigenous American people beyond offensive 50s-era movie stereotypes. It is, to be blunt, hot garbage.
Now when Nintendo sits down to bring over this game to the US -- the country where the people being stereotyped here actually live, and a country where awareness of how shit these stereotypes are and how widely misused they are has grown dramatically in the last couple decades -- they're stuck looking at the fact that while the rest of the content in the game might be just fine, this costume is going to be offensive (and just disruptive to the experience) for a big part of their audience. And not for any particular reason -- this isn't a major storyline point that might be offensive to some but nonetheless is central to the narrative, or a callback to some external reference that people are expecting to see, it's just the video game equivalent of the Sexy Indian Squaw costumes shitty people wear to Halloween parties.
Given all that, making this choice is a slam dunk. If you keep it, you give actual, real offense to people who are a part of your audience, just to preserve something minor and unimportant in the game; if you get rid of it, the only people you offend are the ones working themselves up into an artificial froth over how any and every localization change is "censorship." The former is a real concern for an actual; business reliant on long term customer dedication for success; the latter is an audience you're better off actively pissing off early on in the hopes that you don't have to hear about it from them every time you do your job.
Also, these statements from the article quoted in the OP are outlandishly foolish:
The former reads like something someone who doesn't actually understand what people are complaining about in these situations trying to imagine how being offended works, and the second one is a bullshit excuse given disingenuously by people who never wanted to include minority characters in the first place.
So is a viable alternative to simply erase them from all representation in media?
Isn't Jonathan Holmes black?
I'm a quarter native and honestly find the change annoying.
Cultural Appropriation can be a thing, but when it's a simple nod like a character design I see no issue.
If anything I think it's a good thing, it exposes people to the beauty of Native culture and art.
This stuff aside, the old outfit was significantly better looking.
I see where that Destructoid journalist is going with this, but I still can't get behind the sexy halloween costume Native American class that's literally called Tomahawk. That's just... really in bad taste. The cowboy will probably not be any better but come on.
Some of the jobs costumes in the first Bravely Default were pretty dumb, especially the one's for from the 2 female party members, like the Spell Fencer job.
i'm trying to think about how this "exposes people to the beauty of Native culture and art" and i'm coming up with nothing
i'm trying to think about how this "exposes people to the beauty of Native culture and art" and i'm coming up with nothing
As a side note is there ever a time where people feel wearing the native american costume in this game could be appropriate?
It's clearly native themed and looks nice.
But then again you have people who can't appreciate fanservice, people get so offended at these days it's annoying.
I don't see how a sexy native inspired outfit is in bad taste at all.
Sexuality is not bad and I don't see how it takes away from games.
It's clearly native themed and looks nice.
But then again you have people who can't appreciate fanservice, people get so offended at these days it's annoying.
I don't see how a sexy native inspired outfit is in bad taste at all.
Sexuality is not bad and I don't see how it takes away from games.
If your game has a village of natives that does the Native American trope, at least either:
a) be faithful to the tribe you're adapting to
or
b) make it stylistically unique and original as possible.
I think Breath of Fire IV did B very well with the Worent clan.
Sexuality is not bad, no. Bastardizing an already troped-to-hell culture is shitty, none the less. It's 2015, and believe it or not most game developers have grown out of the 'sexy native american' garbage that grew out of american culture.
Progressives are becoming the modern day book burners.
I am a quarter (or so) Native American.
Dear white college kids, stop telling everybody else what to be offended by.
Out of curiosity do you find Shantae's outfit tasteless?
You find native americans wearing tribal headresses and face paint insulting? What?
It's clearly native themed and looks nice.
But then again you have people who can't appreciate fanservice, people get so offended at these days it's annoying.
I don't see how a sexy native inspired outfit is in bad taste at all.
Sexuality is not bad and I don't see how it takes away from games.
I guess I'm a bit desensitized since I live near an Indian Reservation (and worked there in the past as well, New Mexico) who seem to be diehead Washington Redskins fans (stickers are everywhere) so I wonder if this tribe would find this the least bit offensive, but whatever.
However, changing it to a Cowboy? You beat the Indian Boss and become a Cowboy? Is this right? Like, really? That's the change? Which is worse here?
As a native, I don't how it's bad at all
I'm a quarter native and honestly find the change annoying.
Cultural Appropriation can be a thing, but when it's a simple nod like a character design I see no issue.
If anything I think it's a good thing, it exposes people to the beauty of Native culture and art.
This stuff aside, the old outfit was significantly better looking.
The post I was quoting was -Psst. There is a middle ground between sexy g-string costume on non-native character and zero representation at all. Like, you know, having a native american character in a video game.
Obviously "Tomahawk" is one step beyond the tastelessness of a pro football team, but there's indeed a middleground and essentially removing the character instead of making tasteful changes while staying Native American is exactly at the 'zero representation' end of the spectrum.NinjaCoachZ said:I'd be okay with this if true. Turning First Nations cultures into a class or a costume really wouldn't fly.
Out of curiosity do you find Shantae's outfit tasteless?
Yep. My thoughts exactly. And you can see it already in many games where the protagonist is some non-offensive bland Average Joe guy that simply possibly can't be taken the wrong. It's sad how far this has gone. Now even different cultures is deemed offensive. Absurd.
Nintendo doesn't want the problems turning a culture into a sexual fetish entails. That is why they scrapped the Mandingo class
I guess I'm a bit desensitized since I live near an Indian Reservation (and worked there in the past as well, New Mexico) who seem to be diehead Washington Redskins fans (stickers are everywhere) so I wonder if this tribe would find this the least bit offensive, but whatever.
However, changing it to a Cowboy? You beat the Indian Boss and become a Cowboy? Is this right? Like, really? That's the change? Which is worse here?
maybe you should try reading my comment again without your outrage glasses on
if you want sexy native american costumes, whatever, but don't try and pretend that it's going to serve a larger purpose than sexy native american costumes