StrongBlackVine
Banned
Bleh. Hasn't hurt my experience in any way which is all that matters.
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Bloodborne's Frame Pacing still isn't fixed, it never will be, and that sucks
- Thread starter Fimbulvetr
- Start date
Bleh. Hasn't hurt my experience in any way which is all that matters.
They aren't talking like they've never played the game, and their point totally makes sense.
You can argue how much of an impact the frame pacing has on the gameplay, but it's indisputable that it has SOME effect, regardless of how large or small it is. The game has timing based components. Poor framepacing leads to frames displaying at inconsistent times. There has to be an impact because those ideas are inherently linked.
It is not affected or at least not even close to hampering combat. It responds exactly as how I want it to respond during combat so....you may become a believer if you actually play the game.
I disagree with that. Timing is very important in Bloodborne since you can't rely on a shield. You will need to dodge and thus have to be decent at timing.
Furthermore, the framerate really suffers during some bossfights which really affects the gameplay. Prime examples would be Abhorrent Beast and Paarl/Loren Darkbeast (especially the latter, have fun dodging shit at <15 fps).
nailbombxx
Member
Its not an ideal locked 60fps but at the same time it never gets as bad as Blighttown while looking damn good so thats progress I guess
The Souls series' timing windows for most things are extremely generous compared to other action games, and I'd be hard pressed to give you specific examples of the frame pacing problems hurting my experience in combat.
This isn't being dismissive, mind you, I still wish it was fixed. I'm just being honest. Bloodborne still plays really well in spite of its technical issues, and it's not hampered to the degree of something like Dragon's Dogma on PS3.
EDIT: Hypron did point out that the game does suffer from actual framerate drops in some places, which are generally more detrimental than the pacing.
EDIT 2: It's also worth pointing out that Bloodborne is probably the best-performing non-remaster Souls game on console in terms of average framerate. Dark 2 ran like a dog, and it doesn't have major areas with severe, sustained framerate problems like Demon's or Dark.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It never reaches 60fps at all, it's target framerate is 30.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Even after Platinum-ed it up and watched several videos/read explanation about what the hell "frame pacing" actually is--honestly, I still don't have any clue what it is, hahaha---I still never actually "feel" the problem whenever I play the game.
I mean, I guess it's too bad if you're sensitive to that kind of thing, but for the life of me I just don't see it... or how it bothers anyone so much to the point that anyone would be unwilling to play the game.
I guess I am quite blessed because I have a technically deficient mind, hahah.
I mean, I guess it's too bad if you're sensitive to that kind of thing, but for the life of me I just don't see it... or how it bothers anyone so much to the point that anyone would be unwilling to play the game.
I guess I am quite blessed because I have a technically deficient mind, hahah.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
How in the world can you watch this video. and not notice it?
I feel sorry for the people who are affected by it. I personally am not. And incompetent isn't a word I would throw around so haphazardly like that. The progression from Kingsfield to Bloodborne is not of the same as the one from Oblivion to fallout 4 in terms of bugs and incompetency on Sony platforms.
I just watched it and didn't notice it.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
No? lol. Have you even played the game?
I didn't say it wasn't important, only that the framerate issues don't affect it on any significant level. No one's ever died because of it.
Decent, yes. But I did compare it to twitch action games. It's not remotely the same.
I did fight those bosses. Framerate wasn't an issue that I can recall.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Razzorn34
Member
This is just another one of those things that some people are sensitive to, but most don't care. Add this to things like people sceaming about CA, screen tearing, jaggies, etc.
Yeah, it's all nice when everything is perfect. But, most of us will hardly notice anything as long as it isn't extremely hindering gameplay. I'm in this boat. Yes, I can see it if I take the time to look for it. I'll never notice it otherwise though.
Yeah, it's all nice when everything is perfect. But, most of us will hardly notice anything as long as it isn't extremely hindering gameplay. I'm in this boat. Yes, I can see it if I take the time to look for it. I'll never notice it otherwise though.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
It's a PvP involving three people at the same time. First of all, I don't do PvP (unless some fuckers invade me, hahaha), and second of all that kind of PvP situation is hardly common as you play the game (and you can even disable PvP entirely.)
I guess you will still not be satisfied if I counter with "it's not really that much of a big deal"? Especially a big deal enough to entirely skip a great game like Bloodborne?
I am just not as sensitive to it as some people maybe. Like I said, I guess I am just a technically deficient person after all, hahaha.
When you have to dodge some boss' attack (that can one shot you) using a handful of iframes, twitch or no twitch, having a reliable framerate and a low input lag is crucial, and BB doesn't really perform that well in either.
Strategy can get you only so far in this game, especially in BB, where the builds available are essentially a variation of the agility build you had in Dark Souls.
If you can't dodge reliably, you can have all the strategies in the world planned, you're gonna die (unless you're massively over leveled and spam vials, i guess).
This is only amplified, if you take into consideration PvP, obviously.
Infact, i'd say responsiveness is even more important here than in, say, Dragon's Dogma.
That game has fucking horrid performance (much worse than BB, actually) and generally faster combat, but it's nowhere near as punishing, and it doesn't rely on exploiting iframes as much.
Try dodging in Dark Souls 2 at 60fps (on PC, but i assume it's the same on PS4) and then in BB, especially in areas where frame pacing is bad, and the general input lag + stuttering caused by the frame pacing issues, makes the difference pretty damn obvious.
Yes, you can work around it, yes you can still play and enjoy the game (and platinum it, like most here have done) but it doesn't change the fact that it is a pretty crucial aspect that they should be much more careful with.
You can adapt around a lot of problems in games, but they're still problems that should be fixed, or taken more into consideration.
Doesn't mean you can't like or even love these games (since a lot of people feel the need to point out how much they loved the game).
Strategy can get you only so far in this game, especially in BB, where the builds available are essentially a variation of the agility build you had in Dark Souls.
If you can't dodge reliably, you can have all the strategies in the world planned, you're gonna die (unless you're massively over leveled and spam vials, i guess).
This is only amplified, if you take into consideration PvP, obviously.
Infact, i'd say responsiveness is even more important here than in, say, Dragon's Dogma.
That game has fucking horrid performance (much worse than BB, actually) and generally faster combat, but it's nowhere near as punishing, and it doesn't rely on exploiting iframes as much.
Try dodging in Dark Souls 2 at 60fps (on PC, but i assume it's the same on PS4) and then in BB, especially in areas where frame pacing is bad, and the general input lag + stuttering caused by the frame pacing issues, makes the difference pretty damn obvious.
Yes, you can work around it, yes you can still play and enjoy the game (and platinum it, like most here have done) but it doesn't change the fact that it is a pretty crucial aspect that they should be much more careful with.
You can adapt around a lot of problems in games, but they're still problems that should be fixed, or taken more into consideration.
Doesn't mean you can't like or even love these games (since a lot of people feel the need to point out how much they loved the game).
Sure seemed like the person playing didn't notice.
There were a few frame drops here and there, especially when breaking chairs and such, but nothing that had any influence on player choices.
copelandmaster
Member
Oh man, we gottem' there!
Guys, seriously. I play DS2 PvP more than once a week on a 120hz monitor at 60fps. I can see and feel the numerous issues BB has by comparison.
Nappuccino
Member
I literally cannot tell what is poor frame pacing and what is poor framerate.
EscapeArtist
Banned
Has never really bothered me, Bloodborne is (probably) still my GotY this year.
RecursiveFault
Banned
I jumped back in the other way and the shitty pacing hit me like a wall of bricks to my eyes.
It's playable, I guess. I pumped like 300 hours in earlier this year, too.
It's playable, I guess. I pumped like 300 hours in earlier this year, too.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
PvP is quite common in the game. Co-op as well. Both get worse performance issues when playing the game.
There were a lot more than "here and there." Speaking of the amount of useless breakable objects really make little sense from a game design standpoint especially since they cause performance issues as well.
In PVP it's a combination of both.
copelandmaster
Member
How about a 60hz recording of 30fps gameplay? It's so bad in that video that the game looks like the framerate is actually dropping rather than just stuttering/duplicating. Those little notches in the graph = every time the game has frame pacing problems.
Anyway, the video I posted and Crossing Eden reposted was an example of a situation where performance problems and visual irregularities would have a negative effect, not "look at this heavily compressed stream rip and find the frames that are paced incorrectly." Though you can clearly see the game's framerate drop during that example.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I suppose. And I do realize the game's performance bogging down in Coop since I do play lots of Coop in this game, and yes at times they can be quite noticeable (I do notice those frame drops but I still don't know how to spot "frame pacing" issues... guess I need to educate myself more by watching more videos explaining it), especially if I play along with two other people.
This game is not perfect technically, I am aware of that. I guess I am quite blessed in that I am not as sensitive as you and many others to its issues that it will sour me completely on the experience.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
I haven't notified any of this stuff. Can't wait for the DLC, Yesss!
I don't find it to be that different to be honest. I play a fair bit of action games and those games also rely a lot on patterns (unless twitch action games doesn't refer to stuff like DMC/Platinum Games' games) — you tend to have less iframes but there isn't a world of difference between the two. I still find dodging some attacks challenging in Bloodborne even after having played the DMCs on DMD for example.
Yeah I find that hard to believe considering how the framerate tanked, especially against the Loren Darkbeast. As the fight progressed the controls felt less and less responsive. I fought it twice and it was the same on both instances. Same thing against the Abhorrent beast but not to the same degree.
On a related note, I recently played Bloodborne again after having been playing nothing but MGSV for more than a month. The controls in Bloodborne felt pretty unresponsive in comparison.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
I love Bloodborne and the bug is a bloody pain. At least after some time with the game I can somewhat feel when it will appear, so I can manage.
People who claim not being affected by this bug either 1) dont remember it, because it's relatively short and relatively infrequent, enough to be forgettable, or 2) stockolm syndrom ;p
People who claim not being affected by this bug either 1) dont remember it, because it's relatively short and relatively infrequent, enough to be forgettable, or 2) stockolm syndrom ;p
FF Seraphim
Member
The framepacing and frame rate never gave me an issue with bosses. NG+ and the only boss that I didn't kill on the first run in + was ML and that's because I rolled off the roof....
The negatives in this game do not outweigh the positives and for some people it's not even an issue.
The negatives in this game do not outweigh the positives and for some people it's not even an issue.
They're a simple way of allowing the player to connect to the environment.
I've fought all of the bosses many many times, I have hundreds of hours in the game and I've played MGSV for I think 100 hours as well and I haven't had any issue with the framerate or the responsiveness of the controls. I actually find it kind of hard to believe that people would.
copelandmaster
Member
Not everyone sees a game as a sum of its parts. It depends on who you are, but any one thing can definitely be a deal breaker.
For some people it may not be an issue. Maybe it is an issue for some other people.
Take this guy for example. Dark Souls 1 & Dark Souls 2. No buy, because M & K support is not up to snuff, even though he does have an xbox 360 controller. Sub standard implementation in a product that was paid for and expected to work properly.
Bloodborn is substandard in regard to is frame pacing and its general performance for a not insignificant amount of people. Plenty of both objective and subjective evidence is a google search away.
While I agree one can still enjoy the game, isn't this the same thing as saying you still enjoy a game when it has flaws in a DF thread?
Sort of irrelevant to the problem in the OP.
Jacked up frame-pacing is annoying, even in a great game.
I'd take jacked up frame pacing over screen tearing any day though.
InsaneTiger
Member
There are so many sensitive people here. I either don't notice it or don't care. I am just glad I can enjoy it and not let the minor technicals override my enjoyment.
There's no doubt that it affects the game. It can't be denied that the doubled frame causes a 33ms delay on top of whatever human delay you'll have.
...I'd argue that it affects the game less than, say, sweaty palms, an uncomfortable chair, or perhaps the reflection of the DS4's light bar in your display, but the impact sure is non-zero!
...I'd argue that it affects the game less than, say, sweaty palms, an uncomfortable chair, or perhaps the reflection of the DS4's light bar in your display, but the impact sure is non-zero!
Good for you then, you're probably not sensitive to those things. But still, the game literally runs at 15 fps during the Loran Darkbeast's electric attacks I find it hard to believe someone would not notice that.
I also have played the games a fair bit (100 hours for BB and 160 for MGSV) and I can definitely feel the difference between 30 fps with drops and uneven frame pacing vs almost flawless 60 fps.
This is why I stopped caring when I died in Bloodborne. Most of the time it's my fault, but I know when the game has screwed me over and all I can do is sigh and shrug. I'm still enjoying myself, but I wish these issues were fixed, too.
Phoenix944
Member
I wasn't bothered on my first playthrough month ago. But I got to play Dark Souls 2 on PS4 and going back to Bloodborne now made me realize this issue.
It took me an hour to get use to that. Now it's okay
It took me an hour to get use to that. Now it's okay
Deceitful-Fox
Neo Member
It's funny, I had almost the complete opposite response when going into Bloodborne than most PC players. I had girded myself for a terribad console experience ala DS1, but when I started playing it all I could think was 'Wow, this runs really well.'. Of course, I had no idea what frame pacing is and still don't really. I guess I'm more sensitive to FPS drops than frame pacing.
opticalmace
Member
I just started Bloodborne for the first time (first souls game) and I noticed the frame pacing issue immediately. I find it really bothersome, but I'm going to continue anyway because the game seems really fun so far.
I regularly play on a 144Hz g-sync panel, so it sticks out like a sore thumb. Is there really no hope of a fix?
I regularly play on a 144Hz g-sync panel, so it sticks out like a sore thumb. Is there really no hope of a fix?
At this point almost certainly not.
watched it, didnt notice anything
eot
Banned
I notice it but I don't think it matters that much. I played Dark Souls with a shit frame rate and I very rarely died because of it. That doesn't excuse it and if it bothers you then fair enough (I have my own nit picky hangups with games). However I don't think frame rate is nearly as important as in say an FPS.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Sure, excuse your ineptitude by blaming the framerate...
Death by framerate never happens. Death by camera, though? Sure, that I'll grant.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It depends on the fight, pvp is definitely affected by framerate.Sure, excuse your ineptitude by blaming the framerate...
Death by framerate never happens. Death by camera, though? Sure, that I'll grant.
Always win though.