TheBryanJZX90
Member
It's like every damn time I come to this forum I see some new major inexcusable problem with graphics. Frame rate drops, judder, screen tearing, now frame pacing. Outrage culture these days man...
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bloodborne's Frame Pacing still isn't fixed, it never will be, and that sucks
- Thread starter Fimbulvetr
- Start date
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
But the other player would be affected similarly so it kinda cancels out... Also you mentioned boss fights so uh, goalpost moving?
Nope. Halo 5's distant animations are purposely running at a lower framerate. Bloodborne's issues are technical problems. I'm glad I didn't enjoy the game all that much, which meant I didn't have to deal with the frame pacing issues again on NG+. I loved Dark Souls 1 and Demon Souls, so replaying those means dealing with a whole slew of framerate problems.
MillionStabs
Banned
The bad frame timing in BB is embarrassing, and it's so prevelant it physically hurts my eyes sometimes.
Coming off of Dark 2 which ran at a solid 60 on nearly everything, and then to BB which was built around the PS4 and it's hardware and it can't even keep it's frame timing straight.
Coming off of Dark 2 which ran at a solid 60 on nearly everything, and then to BB which was built around the PS4 and it's hardware and it can't even keep it's frame timing straight.
So we should just say fuck it and let developers get a free pass? No thanks... It's a video game forum, we are meant to discuss everything about video games. It's talking and demanding change that gets issues like these fixed
Lower framerate causes what you see on screen to be late, compared to your actual inputs.
So yes, bad framerate actually does hinder gameplay and can cause death.
The fact that you can work around it somehow it's beyond the point.
It's why any action game worth a damn should aim for 60fps at least, and why this game running at (not very fluid to boot) 30 is a problem, whether you managed to beat it or not; i beat it too, but it sure wasn't as good of an experience as Dark Souls 2 in that specific sense (despite liking the rest of the game's features more).
So yes, bad framerate actually does hinder gameplay and can cause death.
The fact that you can work around it somehow it's beyond the point.
It's why any action game worth a damn should aim for 60fps at least, and why this game running at (not very fluid to boot) 30 is a problem, whether you managed to beat it or not; i beat it too, but it sure wasn't as good of an experience as Dark Souls 2 in that specific sense (despite liking the rest of the game's features more).
-Pyromaniac-
Member
dp
unpurposed
Member
Some of the issues you mentioned are more noticeable than others and I believe should be called out.
I've never noticed this particular issue while playing Bloodborne however. I just enjoyed the game! Doesn't mean it's not there, but I imagine it affects everyone differently.
Although there is a lot of hyperbole in this thread. You'd imagine it was something more than just a video game.
The frame pacing issue in Bloodborne is definitely there, definitely noticeable, and definitely able to be dealt with when you're actually in combat.
It also definitely cheapens experience when you're just walking around, marveling at the Victorian horrorscape...
I hope they fix this for Dark Souls 3, but I'm less than confident that FROM actually cares about it.
It also definitely cheapens experience when you're just walking around, marveling at the Victorian horrorscape...
I hope they fix this for Dark Souls 3, but I'm less than confident that FROM actually cares about it.
You can easily have input logic polled at a higher rate than the graphics are refreshed. Not to say this is done in Bloodborne, but at the same time, I would wager that most players won't be able take advantage of an extra 16ms window in a game where most actions have several seconds of windup and cooldown anyways.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I still can't believe they never fixed this. Still playing through this and MGSV and every time I switch over to BB my eyes bleed for a few minutes while I get used to it.
Never an issue for gameplay but it definitely hurts my enjoyment of the beautiful art they created in this game.
Never an issue for gameplay but it definitely hurts my enjoyment of the beautiful art they created in this game.
InsaneTiger
Member
No, but the game isn't broken, some people notice the frame pacing issue more than other. I personally don't think it is that bad. If they fixed it great but it doesn't make the game unplayable.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
That's so weird... I don't think I've ever noticed it once.
opticalmace
Member
Depends on what you're used to. I go from 144hz g-sync to bloodborne and it's noticeable in the first few seconds to me.
Hasn't dampened my enthusiasm for the game, but I do wonder why it is so janky.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
That's gotta be it! I just have consoles these days.
Manmademan
Member
Lol what is this? Dark 2 on the original platform it was designed for (ps360) ran like hot garbage. Nowhere close to a solid 60.
Blood borne runs better on its native platform than Demons Souls, Dark Souls OR Dark 2 ever did.
If you're comparing *SOTFS* DS2 to bloodborne, clearly the flaw in comparing how well a last gen port runs on far superior hardware to a current gen game pushing the limits of what's available on the ps4 should be obvious.
InsaneTiger
Member
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
this. having standards for something you spend money on is for shmucks.
... ... ... Wait what?
I mean Bloodborne is a nice looking game, but "pushing the limits of what's available on the PS4"??
I don't know that many people would agree with you...
I'll hand it to FROM, they have amazing artists and level gameplay designers and production staff, but I don't believe their engineers are on the same technical level as other devs...
yanipheonu
Member
I mean I won't pretend it's a problem, it would be nice if it wasn't there but... It hasn't killed the game for me or anything.
Framerate isn't necessarily the only culprit, but when you press circle/B in Dark Souls 2 on PC at 60fps, and you do the same in BB, there difference is drastic enough that I changed my playstyle from a reactive one (dodging when I see the enemy wind up the attack) to a predictive one (I press dodge before I see any movement, trying to predict when the enemy is going to attack, because reaction times are just painfully slow otherwise).
Yes, after 30 hours it becomes natural and you can end up platinuming the game, but going back to a responsive game like DkS2 is a shock, and reminds you of how much more enjoyable to play it is, when there is very little latency between input and action on screen.
Moreover, I tried locking DkS2 at 30 with vsync (was trying some demanding mods) and it became exactly like Bloodborne, predictive style.
SkylineRKR
Member
Nah its not pushing. I think there are devs out there that can run a game like this at 60fps. Souls has always looked nice, mainly because of the killer art direction, but I always felt the performance of those games was sub par for what it delivered. Which was my only gripe with these games.
If Scholar is an indication, Bloodborne Remastered for PS5 will be nice.
Icedburden
Member
Between people's eyes bleeding and being physically sick, the level of insanity for crying has reached a new peak.
I'm playing through the game now, and while it is an issue, the frame pacing doesn't break or hinder the game in any way.
It's not an "I don't see it" issue, it's a very tiresome boohoo parade of people that complain to just complain.
I'm playing through the game now, and while it is an issue, the frame pacing doesn't break or hinder the game in any way.
It's not an "I don't see it" issue, it's a very tiresome boohoo parade of people that complain to just complain.
Manmademan
Member
From is getting as much out of the ps4 as they can with BB. There are better looking games with bigger budgets, sure. Maybe naughty dog could get a game like this to perform better. But if you think you're getting anything significantly better out of FROM with Dark3, or really anything this gen you're in for disappointment
Son of Flounder
Member
I said it before in another thread but people really need to stop being so dismissive of complaints about things like frame pacing. For some of us it is just as bad as motion sickness in that it can actually make us feel nauseous. I'm also colour blind, the fact I complain about some games being unplayable for me, are you going to attribute this to 'outrage culture' as well? Thankfully some developers are listening and have colour blind modes in their games now, are you saying the inclusion of this is due to entitled whiners and they shouldn't bother wasting resources on such a feature?
Believe it or not, I can cope with framerate drops without issue, I dislike it but it doesn't make me feel ill. Frame pacing IS NOT framerate drops, it is hard to describe to you 'normals' but for me it feels like the rhythm of the video display is off like it is missing a beat. Imagine trying to dance to something where the music keeps skipping like a badly scratched record, it would feel awful.
Good for you for not noticing or caring about the things you mentioned, but for some of us it is actually very off putting, but I'm sure you'll just say people like me are acting entitled for not wanting a game without frame pacing issue, tearing or judder.
...okay you're making my point for me.
FROM is not pushing the PS4 to its limit as you asserted... They might be pushing it to THEIR limit, but that's a different thing entirely.
Semantics. It's what's for dinner.
Having been going back and forth between the two recently, Dark Souls 2 Scholar PS4 is way smoother visually but way more often do I feel like my inputs are lagging or outright ignored. Def died a couple times to The Rotten at NG++++ last night to ignored roll inputs.
Doesn't happen all the time but is really annoying when it does.
That's very fascinating. I don't know why I'm not noticing it.
At least I don't stretch a 4:3 image...
I would love it if the game ran at a smooth 60 (or even 30) fps.
That said, it's my GOTY and the Old Hunters expansion is fantastic. So I see your point, but if you skip this game for framerate issues alone, then it may be that the game hasn't hooked you for all the things it does so incredibly well. I am willing to overlook some choppiness here and there just to spend time in that wonderful weird world.
That said, it's my GOTY and the Old Hunters expansion is fantastic. So I see your point, but if you skip this game for framerate issues alone, then it may be that the game hasn't hooked you for all the things it does so incredibly well. I am willing to overlook some choppiness here and there just to spend time in that wonderful weird world.
Can't talk for the ps4 version, the PC version, playing at 60, only gave me problems with low ADP, due to low iframes (a stupid idea admittedly).
Still, I'm not talking much about an occasional bug, and more of a consistent problem.
Manmademan
Member
This is what I was referring to. Froms limits, not the theoretical maximum any developer could get with an infinite budget.
The comparison was how Dark2 (a from game) ran better than BB (a different from game).
This is false, BB runs as well or better than any title we've seen from them. It's a ps4 native title they're doing all they can with, NOT a last gen port (SOTFS) they have a bunch of extra horsepower to run at 60fps.
The same will be true of Dark3 when it hits. That title isnt 60fps either and looks about the same. You want a 60fps blood borne or dark title for current platforms ots going to have to be a ps5 port.
We clear?
Death Penalty
Member
I'm colorblind as well. I don't expect every (or any) game to include a colorblind mode because I understand what a small percentage of consumers I, as a colorblind player, represent. A game that includes a colorblind mode will get a ton of appreciation from me, a game that doesn't I will judge based on its merit and how much of a problem it presents me. I think it would be a stupid thing to get outraged over though, and I understand that it doesn't make sense for a developer to make hundreds upon hundreds of concessions for small issues that will not affect the majority of their fanbase.
If it causes such a huge problem for you that the bad outweighs the good, maybe the product is unfortunately not for you. By all means, including features and fixes to accommodate all audiences is great and there's nothing wrong with doing everything you can to bring it to a dev/publisher's attention, but a lot of the more extreme reactions I see are ridiculous.
I understand what you were attempting to get at, yes.
Your original word use suggested something that you did not mean however, and few people would agree with, which is what I took issue with.
Stealthcobra
Member
90 plus percent don't even know wtf the op. is talking about lol.. enjoy your game man.. i know i will
I still don't really understand what frame-pacing is, but I kinda notice the herky-jerkiness now.
It's really bothering me during the DLC boss fight (e.g. I'll mash dodge repeatedly, and my character doesn't really do much of anything).
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
What is the point in posting in threads about the technical aspect of games, good or bad, if your posts is essentially "LOL I DON'T NOTICE IT WHATEVER BRO"
I wouldn't even be aware of it, if it wasn't for GAF. It's nothing I notice while playing the game.
I mean, he kind of contributed...
For example, I had no idea that I was only one of 10% of people who noticed the frame pacing issue.
I'm sure his percentages are totally legit. ^_^
Son of Flounder
Member
I was just trying to make a point that it is not a bad thing that developers are catering to people who are affected with issues such as colour blindness and to the commenter I quoted, I don't believe we are being entitled for asking for a fix. I have to avoid games like match 3 / Bejewelled style games and I don't have a problem with that. However, games like Bioshock 1 are different, in the hacking mini game the red and green colours were so similar I kept failing and triggering alarms. It would take a dev just a few minutes to resolve this (there is a PC mod thankfully).
I'm sure frame pacing may be harder to fix depending on the engine used unfortunately.
Aren't you complaining about people complaining too much, though?
I don't see why is it so hard to accept some people are more sensitive to these issues than other. Personally, I played the whole game and it didn't really bother me at all, but it doesn't mean that other people complaining about it doesn't have a reason to complain if that affects their enjoyment of the product. In the end, this type of post complaining about how everything isn't an issue "because it doesn't affect me" is super counter productive. You are not adding anything to the discussion, just adding to the noise and polluting a thread that clearly doesn't interest you enough for you to offer two or three seconds to think about the subject.
Does frame pacing issues render the game unplayable? Not to me, no. But is there a reason why it shouldn't be fixed if it affects other players? Or if it can't be fixed, shouldn't people let From Software know what is going on so, maybe, they can avoid this in their future games? It's a legit complaint, let people discuss it.
JudgmentJay
Member
There sure are a lot of armchair developers and graphic tech experts in this thread. If only Fromsoft had access to such talent.
AlphaDragoon
Member
And that is why I'll be buying DS3 (as I did DS2) on PC. Having to go back to 30 with drops in spots and frame pacing concerns after glorious 60 FPS in DS2 is a sad thing.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
agreed, no one should be allowed to complain about things or find fault in them ever. especially when they pay $60+ for them, you'll hurt the company's feelings
DaciaJC
Gold Member
I haven't yet been able to access the DLC. Those who have played it, is the framerate/frame pacing "acceptable" or more along the lines of Old Yharnam?
"Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools because they have to say something."
"Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools because they have to say something."
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Nah, bossfights can sometimes be generally more intensive than other areas of the game. Particularly when they start busting out special moves. And even if both players are experiencing similar issues, neither are experiencing the game at it's full potential. Invaders already have a disadvantage due to the health thing.
AlphaDragoon
Member
You're right, it's a real shame From doesn't get GAF help for their games. If they did, maybe Durante could have helped them release DS1 at 60 FPS and an unlocked framerate from the beginning.
opticalmace
Member
You're right, it's a real shame From doesn't get GAF help for their games. If they did, maybe Durante could have helped them release DS1 at 60 FPS and an unlocked framerate from the beginning.
Oh snap.
JudgmentJay
Member
You're right, it's a real shame From doesn't get GAF help for their games. If they did, maybe Durante could have helped them release DS1 at 60 FPS and an unlocked framerate from the beginning.
I was referring to the people who claim that Bloodborne could be running at 60 FPS in the hands of another developer or that the graphics aren't very good. The tech in the game is impressive for consoles. The Digital Foundry article reveals as much: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...rne-the-next-gen-souls-youve-been-waiting-for
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Compared to some of the tech seen in other games it's kinda not. Especially the character models. Absolutely amazing artistry tho. FS games never have top tier tech behind them. In fact some would argue that that's part of the charm.
I guess asking for smooth gaming experiences is a sin these days.