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[Arulan]

I think this is fantastic. Stagnant hardware for 6+ years is an outdated concept and by definition impedes technological innovation. Even more so today when console manufacturers no longer subsidize relatively high-end hardware, with respect to what is available at release, and instead opt for conservative mid-tier offerings at release. I don't think it's a coincidence that the platforms with the largest market share and accelerated growth happen to have rapid hardware iterations and are both open-platforms (well, one of them is semi-open, but open relative to its competition).

I don't have any direct sources at hand, but I have to wonder if publishers and developers were shocked at the relatively modest hardware of the PS4 and Xbox One. An upgrade such as this could give them the leeway required, even if they'd still have to scale it back for the original PS4.

 

[Siege.exe]

I love my PS4, I love console gaming. I love knowing I bought my PS4 at launch knowing I could play all those early good, but not great system seller games while also knowing I would get to play all those gorgeous games they previewed down the line on the same hardware, running their best. I loved knowing I wouldn't have to buy a new system for at least 5 years.

I don't hate Sony, I don't want them to fail at all. I do however worry this is a bad move for Sony. If im wrong I lose too because it changes something I loved drastically.

Fortunately for you, me, and everyone else who doesn't want to upgrade, you don't have to buy a new system.

 

[IaN_GAF]

Our boy Austin Walker doing work.

If this 'No Neo Exclusives' thing is a thing, I am actually cool with this. Revisions of consoles with hardware improvements are not new. I may have to see the actual difference before I trade in some of my consoles though.

 

[GHG]

Apples and oranges. Pc upgrades a normal part of pc gaming. Its something you accept when you get into the hobby. If console upgrades were the standard I wouldn't be saying anything. If theres a ps4.75 it won't be an issue to me because obviously a standard was set before hand. Thats why I said I'll be waiting now to see what happens. Just like I wait and hold off for a pc component that fits my needs.

So in summary you feel burned because this is a new direction they are taking and you weren't informed of it beforehand?

 

[Mediking]

Funny how these specs at $399 are totally possible for Sony, but completely absurd in the NX threads for Nintendo to come out with anything anywhere near 2x the power of ps4 at a reasonable price point by a ton of posters in there. Lol.

The

Spoiler

bias

is real

 

[tuxfool]

36 CUs is 2304 shaders, sounds very much like a salvaged Polaris 10, assuming the 2560 shader rumour for that is true.

2.1 Ghz cpu seems a little anemic in terms of an upgrade, the leakage improvements in puma enable that sort of bump without increasing power consumption and then you have the 14nm shrink too.

Seems like overall power consumption will go down vs the current PS4 meaning a smaller form factor might also be on the cards to go with the power bump.

It also seems like devs could quite easily target 30fps on PS4 and 60fps on PS4K, probably single player modes only though to keep the multiplayer fair across all users.

I am interested depending on price, seems like they could come in at $349 based on the rumoured spec.

It is already established that they're using Jaguar. In all likelihood they are also not using Polaris as that will be architecturally slightly different.

 

[Get_craycray]

I thought the issue was that PS4K would have exclusive games and old model would feel short-lived.

This info is saying that won’t happen, there will be no Neo exclusives. And, the specs are much more in line with a bump and not a completely new iteration on hardware.

Weird, I thought more people would be happy with this. It’s not really fragmenting anything at all is it?

This will no doubt be my second PS4...

Yep, it's also what I've been told. I didn't want to go on and tell every one on GAF and go the "are you legit?" route, so that's why I kept my mouth shut, but I know a dev who told me they received a new dev kit, even before all the rumours and I was a bit skeptical/worried but he told me that it wasn't a "massive upgrade" as some rumours suggested.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I can't wait for the Digital Foundry PS4 vs PS4K videos showing me how much better my experience could be if I were to re-buy the console, grrr. I'll fucking do it as well, especially if performance is greatly improved, visuals I couldn't care less about though, so if it were just a case of going from medium settings to ultra I wouldn't upgrade, but 30fps to 60fps? In a heartbeat, hell even 30fps rock solid would be an upgrade to what we have now most of the time.

 

[Ooccoo]

So what's the difference with PC gaming then?

I bought a PS4 two years ago before the CAD tanked, Now if I upgrade to the "Neo" it will mean I'll have spent as much money as my gaming PC. This is just stupid. There's just no advantage anymore to owning consoles. Playing with controllers? PC has it. Better prices? PC. Refunds? PC. Games running @ 60FPS? PC (most of the time). It's just ridiculous. And I'm not even talking about late ports and stuff from consoles.

Wake me up from this nightmare.

 

[Obliterator]

I
I don't have any direct sources at hand, but I have to wonder if publishers and developers were shocked at the relatively modest hardware of the PS4 and Xbox One. An upgrade such as this could give them the leeway required, even if they'd still have to scale it back for the original PS4.

We know this at least partially true. Epic was originally designing UE4 with 2.5TF consoles in mind

 

[Icanplaythat]

That can happen on any platform. A PS4 revision will not eliminate sloppy work.

No doubt, but expectations for this thing will be through the roof and many will have unrealistic demands. Just saying the meltdowns will be fun to watch as they always are, "They said 4K and 60 fps dammit, I'm suing".

 

[Wishmaster92]

Definitely not buying a PS5 until the revision.

aka wait for megaton e3 game reveals and the masses will follow.

 

[ekim]

Reads fantastic on paper. $399 is also a more than good price for the offering.

 

[tuxfool]

The NEO is NOT using the same GCN cores as the OG PS4 so a direct linear comparison is inaccurate.

Care to point out where this is conclusively stated?

 

[Mizzou Gaming]

Sorry they didn't have a short enough bus for me at Mizzou and math was definitely not my major.

 

[IcyRhythms]

Yep standard PS4 will go to $299 and this will be $399

I think current PS4 will hit $250

 

[Ishida]

I don't trust the specs. They don't correlate to me with the supposed "massive" upgrade that was supposed to take place..

"supposed to take place" according to who?

 

[Jonboy]

I wanted this day 1 when it was first rumored but I'm actually kind of reconsidering after seeing the specs. Not nearly the bump I was hoping for.

They should've went with the upgraded CPU.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

So what's the difference with PC gaming then?

I bought a PS4 two years ago before the CAD tanked, Now if I upgrade to the "Neo" it will mean I'll have spent as much money as my gaming PC. This is just stupid. There's just no advantage anymore to owning consoles. Playing with controllers? PC has it. Better prices? PC. Refunds? PC. Games running @ 60FPS? PC (most of the time). It's just ridiculous. And I'm not even talking about late ports and stuff from consoles.

Wake me up from this nightmare.

Then don't buy the upgrade? Or just buy a PC? "Nightmare". Jesus people.

 

[Marlenus]

The CPU upgrade seems lackluster. Isn't the CPU one of the primary bottlenecks? Especially for unoptimized/unpolished games?

After a quick thought it seems fine. If games have to target both specs CPU usage will be designed around the PS4 CPU, this bump will alleviate a few bottlenecks that may crop up in those games without wasting the power budget on something that will not be used.

It makes it easier for devs who can design the game for PS4 and then turn up settings or change the framerate lock for the PS4K version and call it done.

 

[Electric Eye]

So bought. It will keep console gamers more in pace, although to a smaller degree, with pc gamers. You can jump in on the cheaper base model if you are just a casual and dont mind your games running at lower specs or buy newer hardware and the games being compatible across the board just makes it really attractive. Sony is essentially following the graphics card model except you don't have to build around it and its guaranteed to work with all the games past and future really the only thing they need to lock it down and really make this a success beyond ps4 is to get exclusives to be real exclusives again ie no more PC ports.

 

[Quasar]

I have to admit, thats a more modest revision than I expected if true.

And the 512MB extra RAM available despite having the same amount is curious.

 

[TyrantII]

Why would there be backlash? They are basically replacing the $399 model in their lineup. I wouldn't expect a majority of consumers to even notice.

If you don't think this will negatively effect vanilla PS4 software, I don't know what to tell you. There's zero chance it doesn't, especially with that Neo framerate requirment.

 

[ItWillGetBetter]

Awesome. Ps4.5 and PS VR in the same year.

I don't have a ps4 right now so i'm excited. Just saving up all those ps plus freebies.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Really PSPoor ? Thats the best one huh? lol

 

[blankempathy]

So in summary you feel burned because this is a new direction they are taking and you weren't informed of it beforehand?

Yea the concept of transparency with your consumers is crazy huh?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

It'll look like this on PS4:

I'd always choose 60 fps when having the choice between graphic fidelity and framerates, you know.


Ok, seriously, Uncharted 4 Neo Mode, incl. 60 fps support, it's not that unlikely, is it?

 

[joecanada]

This is literally the dumbest defense for this situation. The experience will be of inferiority. Within the same generation, this is a slap in the face to early adopters. It's that simple.

But this is a lesson for people like me. Don't buy the next Sony console within the first couple years. Wait it out and a superior version will come along.

The belittling of those who think this is a slap in the face in this tread is actually absurd. I don't know if it's fanboyism or what but the defending going on here is pretty sad.

That's when you know how bad it is lol.

The experience is literally the same. You only perceive inferiority based on something new, same as 100 pc ports, xbox could release something new, NX could have more power, etc... It's already coming up to 3 years. If you want to wait 3 years to play games then go ahead. I'll play 3 years and trade mine in for 200 or whatever, that's 100 bucks per year, works for me. Or I won't pick up PS4.5, whichever.

 

[Complicated]

I still feel like this is a terrible idea, especially longterm. It's going to change perception of game consoles into a 'I'll get the next one' mentality.

I don't see why that matters when the "next one" will be a part of the same install base as the "one before" and the "one after that one". Nobody is worried about the iPhone S series not selling enough to support game/app development due to everyone waiting for the main numbered phones.

 

[SwordStruck]

Because I could have waited and put that money towards a better console? Anyways Its not like I don't share part of the blame. I assumed that console makers would follow past traditions. I was clearly wrong. Although Sony not saying anything about a new revision in the works is kinda crap at this point in time. I wonder how many people currently will buy a ps4 and be upset when they find out the ps4k is around the corner?

I don't really see how the 'I could have waited X amount of time and gotten a console X amount better' argument holds up, because that can be said about literally any consumer electronic. It's not the fault of the manufacturer that some consumers buy a few years in, they are going to do what makes financial and strategic sense. Believe me, I'm going to feel pretty burned too if the rumors are true, but you can't deny that there's no possible way for Sony to please its entire audience.

 

[PensivePen]

Here's hoping that Sony puts out updates for some of their existing first party games such as Until Dawn and Bloodborne to take advantage of the improved hardware. Wouldn't mind if third party developers did the same but it seems unlikely.

 

[microtransaction]

1) You didn't get promised anything.

2) If this info is true, the entire point is that it won't split the userbase.

I don't know, I guess being on GAF long enough you realize that some video game enthusiasts tend to hate everything that is remotely different from what they are used to.

Guess I was wrong assuming that console manufacturers would follow past practices! I’m not hating man, I’m just kinda disappointed. I thought I was getting the complete sony gamming experience with the original PS4.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This is literally the dumbest defense for this situation. The experience will be of inferiority. Within the same generation, this is a slap in the face to early adopters. It's that simple.

But this is a lesson for people like me. Don't buy the next Sony console within the first couple years. Wait it out and a superior version will come along.

The belittling of those who think this is a slap in the face in this tread is actually absurd. I don't know if it's fanboyism or what but the defending going on here is pretty sad.

That's when you know how bad it is lol.

Hah, you sound like me from the thread when this was first leaked when i was really distressed about it and people were shushing me.

But i'm telling you guy, its not a big deal. Based on this information Giant Bomb put out, your experience on PS4 won't change. You can still get your maximum mileage out of your PS4 just the same, they are not taking anything away from you just because they are offering a higher tier option that does not include exclusive games or THAT huge a performance boost, even though it is a good jump in GPU power.

If you want, you can just ignore the PS4K and ride it out to the PS5 like normal. This is just a stop gap for those interested in better performance, and the PS4's base standard for this gen won't change because of that.

 

[The God]

So you don't think Sony's going to be pushing you to spend money on the upgrade at all? You don't think games going forward are going to be incentivized to favor the Playstation Neo? Do you actually think Sony's just going to put this out there and be totally fine if nobody actually buys it because it's not necessary?

People really think Sony's gonna be satisfied with no one buying their new $400 box lmao

 

[ethomaz]

The NEO is NOT using the same GCN cores as the OG PS4 so a direct linear comparison is inaccurate. It is basically the new Polaris 10 GPU which will be called the r9 480 on the PC. The perf/watt is roughly 2.5x the older GCN cores which means that the Polaris 36CU parts would in theory be >2x the perf for the same size 36CU part in the existing GCN lineup (i.e the r9 390). Basically, this new Polaris part is designed to hit 1440p/60 in modern DX12 games. At 1080p the perf would hover between the r9 390X and the Fury GPU (non X version). That is a HUGE increase in theoretical performance from the current 7850 based part in the PS4 today. For example, Battlefield 4 @1080p ultra runs at 30fps on the 7850 GPU but runs at 80fps on an r9 390X. All will be revealed soon but if these specs are true, then it is FAR from an incremental upgrade (at least to the GPU) and 4K gaming will be more than feasible @30fps for all but the most taxing games.

Now whether that Polaris 10 GPU will be able to reach its potential with that relatively underpowered Jaguar CPU is a WHOLE other story....

It is not Polaris.

It is Jaguar cores with enhanced GCN... I believe it will use 1.2 CUs instead 1.1 used in PS4.

Makes no sense to change the arch in PS4k.

And direct comparison with AMD cards are reasonable.

 

[Consumer]

Everyone jumped to Matrix jokes/references/pictures and I'm just sitting here feeling stupid for expecting people to add the "--GAF" and post our logo.

 

[jroc74]

That 100 dollar Xbox 360 wifi adapter

Would you be shocked if I told you my current 360...doesnt have wifi....

I had a 360 Slim, now I dont...what I have now was a back up. So glad I kept it.

Long story...

 

[CrispyBoar]

Feel bad for all of you that stick with consoles period.

Hate to tell you this, but consoles are always the lead platform/main base for most games. You know what that means for the PC versions of those games, right?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Sorry they didn't have a short enough bus for me at Mizzou and math was definitely not my major.

I'm just pulling your chain. It's always to cool to come across alumni online.

Really PSPoor ? Thats the best one huh? lol

I like it.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

As long as it doesn't split the userbase, it's fine. Again it's a PS4. It's going to work with PS4 games, and it'll use the exact same PS4 OS and features. Once technology really catches up and they make a PS5, then PS5 games will not work with the PS4.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Guess I was wrong assuming that console manufacturers would follow past practices! I’m not hating man, I’m just kinda disappointed. I thought I was getting the complete sony experience with the original PS4.

You were wrong to expect an industry to remain stagnant. Things change. Trends change. Practices change. Expecting everything to say the same as it was 20 years ago in the face of all that change seems pretty unrealistic. All that said, I don't think this will be anywhere near as huge of a deal as some of you are making it out to be. Your PS4 will be able to play every PS4 game for the life of the system.

 

[Wishmaster92]

I think current PS4 will hit $250

And people will still bitch, i say bump up the og ps4 price to $399 while the ps4k is also $399 haha

 

[icespide]

honestly with this bump I doubt we're gonna suddenly see 60fps for everything. I'm expecting this to mainly be worth it if you have a 4K tv

 

[GHG]

Yea the concept of transparency with your consumers is crazy huh?

Transparency for something that may or may not happen at some undefined point in the future.

Right...

 

[Obliterator]

It is worth noting how Sony has shown no updated content for Horizon, Dreams, etc. And also announced nothing else for Q4 this year. Their 1st party studio's likely have been working on launch versions for PS4.5 for a while and will have a blow out at E3.

Exciting times ahead

 

[Inuhanyou]

-wall of text-

And your source is?

If they are adopting jaguar for compatibility purposes, then they are not going to be using an unproven tech like polaris either. They will stick with Sea islands and use the 16nm finfet silicon to their best abilities.

 

[GhostTrick]

The NEO is NOT using the same GCN cores as the OG PS4 so a direct linear comparison is inaccurate. It is basically the new Polaris 10 GPU which will be called the r9 480 on the PC. The perf/watt is roughly 2.5x the older GCN cores which means that the Polaris 36CU parts would in theory be >2x the perf for the same size 36CU part in the existing GCN lineup (i.e the r9 390). Basically, this new Polaris part is designed to hit 1440p/60 in modern DX12 games. At 1080p the perf would hover between the r9 390X and the Fury GPU (non X version). That is a HUGE increase in theoretical performance from the current 7850 based part in the PS4 today. For example, Battlefield 4 @1080p ultra runs at 30fps on the 7850 GPU but runs at 80fps on an r9 390X. All will be revealed soon but if these specs are true, then it is FAR from an incremental upgrade (at least to the GPU) and 4K gaming will be more than feasible @30fps for all but the most taxing games.

Now whether that Polaris 10 GPU will be able to reach its potential with that relatively underpowered Jaguar CPU is a WHOLE other story....

390 is 40CU thought. Also you're reading it wrong. It's not about 36CU Polaris being twice faster than 36CU Tonga or Fiji or any older GCN architecture. It meqns that instead of being a 250W GPU like the R9 390, it'll be a 125W GPU. Which means they're moving their TDP targets and 250W Polaris will be effectively twice more faster than R9 390. You need to compare TDP and not CU count.

 

[Ishida]

Feel bad for all of you that stick with consoles period.

Dumbass 'platform warrior' crap like that is not looked upon well here. You may not last long.

 

[Marlenus]

Care to point out where this is conclusively stated?

It's not but it is logical. The only GPU AMD has that was designed for the 14nm finfet process they are using is Polaris / Vega. The only one we know has working silicon is Polaris. Re-designing Tonga or Hawaii for the 14nm finfet node would be very expensive so why bother when an architecturaly improved GPU has already been designed, built and tested on that node. Polaris is the cheaper way to go and you get improvements too.

It also suits AMD to have devs targeting their latest hardware in the PC space for their fight against Pascal so maybe they are offering a relatively low price for it.

 

[Bsigg12]

It is worth noting how Sony has shown no updated content for Horizon, Dreams, etc. And also announced nothing else for Q4 this year. Their 1st party studio's likely have been working on launch versions for PS4.5 for a while and will have a blow out at E3.

Exciting times ahead

Pretty much. The people freaking out when everything is demoed on PS4 Neo units should be a fun read as well.