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[Stereogatari]

"Starting in October, every PS4 game is required to ship with both a “Base Mode” which will run on the currently available PS4 and a “NEO Mode” for use on the new console."

Well, shit.

Question is will older games be patches to support NEO mode?

 

[Brad Grenz]

This part isn't true. You don't go to 36 CUs and up the clock speed to support 4K media. That's specifically there to give better visually fidelity in games.

No, it's there to run the same games at higher resolutions. Like 1440p which is then scaled to 4K for output.

 

[The God]

And we keep answering....i realized it, so should you. Its just an OPTIONAL thing for power oriented consumers. How many people have cried about the performance of games this gen? Not that i think its anyone's fault but the devs for not optimizing, but this will get the people who want a more stable or more high quality experience to have that, while still selling the lower cost original alternative as a just as viable option.

So you get even more buyers on top of double dippers.

I just don't buy the "this won't be a main focus for Sony" thing. They're not releasing a $400 box as some kind of side project. This will be pushed hard.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

With less time to optimize it could get worse.

Microsoft's plans were probably in motion well before we even caught a whiff of a possible upgrade.

 

[sono]

Sony seems committed to keeping the NEO and the original PS4 player bases connected. As such, there will be no NEO-only games, and Sony will not let developers separate NEO users from original PS4 players while playing on PSN. Likewise, Sony explicitly and repeatedly states that developers cannot offer exclusive gameplay options or special unlockables for NEO players—so don’t expect NEO owners to get a level editor or a special Rocket League car that you won’t have access to on your original PS4.

Seems to be fundamental. Do this Sony or both will fail.

My other concern is that the framerate of dual ported games will worse on PS4 compared to what could be achieved if PS4 existed alone.

.This is because to get stable 60 of 30 fps at 1080p on PS4K wont need as much performance tuning on PS4K compared to PS4 and as we all know, more time = higher development budget .

 

[Obliterator]

I feel like I must help clarify some things in regards to GPU power and frames processing as to my own understanding. It's basic mind you, but it gets the point across.

Currently when looking for an upgrade to gpu for a PC, a gamer will look at various websites and tech forums that show actual data on bench marks for the capabilities of a given gpu vs others on the market. The way this is done is a PC is built and tested with various games which the exact same hardware i.e. RAM and CPU, while changing out only one single component: the GPU

Please note the soul delineating factor and point of emphasis in these tests is one number: the fps, or frames per second.

The question then comes, well if the CPU stayed the same, why did the fps change so much? Well my friends, it seems gpu power actually has a great deal to do with how high you fps can reach.

Doubling the gpu power of the ps4 is going to make s bigger difference across the board graphics and fps wise than most realize.

This is an old example, but gets the point across:

That example is also using higher resolutions than 1080p. GPU is the deciding factor in that case.

Don't get me wrong GPU does help with framerates and we will see some improvements but by and large it's going to be difficult getting to 60fps no matter how good the GPU is. That CPU is just a real legit bottleneck. At the end of the day on this particular set up its going to be easier for devs to target visual improvements than getting to 60fps. That's a real challenge with that CPU

 

[nelsonroyale]

Does this mean the GPU is beyond say the 380x? If, so given draw and size constraints that is pretty good.

I mean GPU power has increased at a rate much higher than the targetted software.

 

[Obliterator]

No, it's there to run the same games at higher resolutions. Like 1440p which is then scaled to 4K for output.

No that's not what it's being used for. Did you read the article?

At least not by and large

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

No, it's there to run the same games at higher resolutions. Like 1440p which is then scaled to 4K for output.

I doubt it will output at 1440p, there will be people who use the new console on 1080p TVs and I'm not sure that a downscaled image would look good.

 

[anothertech]

Completely missing the fact that the CPU used there is a monster relative to the ps4+

No actually, I understand that completely. The one missing the point is you, who failed to realize the only component changing the fps in that diagram was the gpu.

No one is saying the ps4 gpu is comparable to that set up. Thank you for trying tho.

 

[chromatic9]

PSPoor started here. Don't let anyone else take credit.

But seriously no one else is worried that these demos will now be on the PS4K and not the PSPoor? Digital Foundry has its work cut out.

Also reads as piss poor, which is a saying in the UK probably derived from "I haven't even got a pot to piss in". meaning I'm poor. Also piss poor is used for bad workmanship when something is described being piss poor.

 

[mortal]

I'll just have to wait and see the actual console, and all its capabilities once it's officially unveiled. Glad I held off purchasing a PS4 up to this point.

 

[jpax]

4.2 TF seems like a really huge step... I just bought a PS4 last year in march. But I really want better fps.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I just don't buy the "this won't be a main focus for Sony" thing. They're not releasing a $400 box as some kind of side project. This will be pushed hard.

Who is to say they won't push the cheaper PS4 harder .
Since more people buying the system means more software and PS+ sales.
For eg come black friday i expect them to push the cheaper system and not the more expensive one .
PS4k will get push as a hardcore product like PSVR .

 

[Mezoly]

Microsoft's plans were probably in motion well before we even caught a whiff of a possible upgrade.

More configuration mean more time needed to optimize. Dev time is not unlimited something gotta give. Either ps4 will get worse ports(unlikely imo) or ps4.5 will not get optimized fully(most likely imo).

 

[...Scatter...]

The thing that irks me is the 8GB unified RAM. I half way dont believe it. Sure it got an upclock it seems, but to stay at 8? Idontbelieveyou.jpg.

Sony trying to drop another Mic?

 

[Obliterator]

No actually, I understand that completely. The one missing the point is you, who failed to realize the only component changing the fps in that diagram was the gpu.

No one is saying the ps4 gpu is comparable to that set up.

That is higher than 1080p resolution. The GPU being so important for framerates there is specifically due to that. The GPU is handling the resolution

 

[Alienous]

A mess?


How? This is as good as it can get. They arent leaving PS4 users behind, or segregating the population in any way, and those who want to pay for better fidelity can. Win win..

Win-win?

I can only imagine negatives coming from this for standard PS4 owners. The best case scenario is no adverse impact for the standard PS4. But it seems more likely to me that this will result in worst running games for that system as 1080p/30fps and 1080p/60fps become the 'Neo' targets, and regular PS4 games handle those same experiences at reduced resolutions or frame-rates.

 

[tuxfool]

No actually, I understand that completely. The one missing the point is you, who failed to realize the only component changing the fps in that diagram was the gpu.

No one is saying the ps4 gpu is comparable to that set up.

Lord help me. That CPU allows those GPUs to scale because it is so powerful as to remove CPU bottlenecks from the equation.

In pure GPU bound scenarios of course changing the gpu will scale frame rate, but under many real world conditions that is likely not the case, especially with the weaker CPUs in consoles.

 

[nelsonroyale]

If they stick to making the PS4 version the focus then add bells and whistles, they I don't really see this as a big problem per se. I mean they HAVE to ensure PS4 versions are not compromised, otherwise they should rightly get taken to the cleaners.

So that's why FFXV is releasing on September 30th.

The one game that really needs it!

 

[StoneSarge89]

Ok...so PS4k is actually a thing!

I believe it paid off to stay on Xbone up until now, even more so if Xbox does not have a One.5 up its sleeve.
I was going to dip in the PS4 with Uncharted 4, but now I will wait until we have NEOs around. Hopefully they will give it a sweet paintjob in a special bundle with FFVIII Remake.

My main concern is the framerate on the base PS4 for games that will have NEO features. With just one console, devs have to make it work. With the NEO around, I don't want anyone getting lazy for the base model.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

The thing that irks me is the 8GB unified RAM. I half way dont believe it. Sure it got an upclock it seems, but to stay at 8? Idontbelieveyou.jpg.

Sony trying to drop another Mic?

They can't if they want to keep PS4 compatibility. It would be silly to make developers optimise games for different amounts of RAM as well as graphics.

 

[Tagyhag]

No, it's there to run the same games at higher resolutions. Like 1440p which is then scaled to 4K for output.

Lol, I know we don't have ALL the info about the GPU yet.

But what is it with Sony hardware and people always vastly overestimating what it can do?

 

[Blizzje]

What is the equivalent of the NEO GPU?

 

[Kezen]

Is this supposed to release in 2016 ?

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

What is the equivalent of the NEO GPU?

7970 to the PS4s 7850. Though 7970 only has 32CUs so its slightly faster.

 

[Hermii]

So 2 ps4s ductaped together basically? GameCube to wii power jump?

 

[Milly Osworth]

What is the point exactly? How is Sony going to market a slightly better PS4?

"Play your games at slightly better settings, order now!!"

 

[OléGunner]

Well seems to be 100% nailed to happen now.
I'm not a tech expert but the upgrade doesn't seem to be as much as rumoured before. (Still even bigger now compared to XB1 though.)

Maybe just visual bump in most games cases?
That's better for me as it doesn't force an upgrade straight away but when I do, I'd prefer to get shinier visuals.

 

[Blizzje]

7970 to the PS4s 7850.

Nice.

 

[L.O.R.D]

but,well it support dx12?

 

[Spy]

I'm really hoping the console comes with a 5GHz WiFi adapter. Do you think we'll be able to record at 1080p/60fps with the new power opposed to the current 720p/30fps limit?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

but,well it support dx12?

Why would it?

I'm really hoping the console comes with a 5GHz WiFi adapter. Do you think we'll be able to record at 1080p/60fps with the new power opposed to the current 720p/30fps limit?

I hope so. Captures are kinda crap right now.

 

[BigTnaples]

What is the point exactly? How is Sony going to market a slightly better PS4?

"Play your games at slightly better settings, order now!!"

I'm sure they'll do a better job than that...


They don't have to say much. Apple does it every year with those phones. "2x the graphics power! Play your games with double the pixels" or any number of things.

 

[gofreak]

Definitely a nice GPU bump... That's a 4.2Tflop part, no?

The CPU will help take even CPU bound VR games up to the next native framerate tier. 90 fps games should be virtually guaranteed to go to 120fps on this model. 60 to 90 would be a bit tighter for CPU bound games but doable in some cases I guess.

For standard TV games I think you might have some GPU bound games go easily to 60 fps, but otherwise I think it'll be a case of nicer frames rather than more.

Higher end PC gamers should be happy - this should expand the audience for higher fidelity GPU effects and compute techniques, devs may be more incentivised to look at those more.

For existing PS4 owners not wanting an upgrade... At least the modest CPU bump and virtually non existent memory changes means it isn't going to even technically allow the base games to run away from the original spec, never mind policy restrictions.

I guess by the spec this is coming this year... Which is good for me. I still think this could be a 499 sku though, if Sony wants to preserve the value of the original for a while.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

but,well it support dx12?

No, PS4 has GNM and GNMX for low and high level API which is more like OpenGL than DirectX.

 

[Daffy Duck]

What is the point exactly? How is Sony going to market a slightly better PS4?

"Play your games at slightly better settings, order now!!"

Yeah I'm intrigued by how Sony will go about marketing this.

 

[anothertech]

That example is also using higher resolutions than 1080p. GPU is the deciding factor in that case.

Don't get me wrong GPU does help with framerates and we will see some improvements but by and large it's going to be difficult getting to 60fps no matter how good the GPU is. That CPU is just a real legit bottleneck. At the end of the day on this particular set up its going to be easier for devs to target visual improvements than getting to 60fps. That's a real challenge with that CPU

I understand this point. What I am rebutting is the nonsense posts that doubling the gpu power, CPU clock and upping the RAM is going to have little to no effect on the fps of games.

It's like people don't have a clue what has been accomplished with the current ps4 specs thus far lol.

60 fps in games will be completely possible with this set up when optimized by developers in a closed system console like this, saying it will make little difference sounds a lot like pushing someone else's agenda tbh.

 

[Fady K]

Interesting. The one thing I'm thankful for is that there will not only be no NEO-exclusive games but not even NEO-exclusive gameplay features - if this turns out to be true. That would fully alleviate the initial worries I had about this whole concept.

 

[zero86r]

I had been planning on buying a PS4 this Christmas but now I need to consider if i will be getting this upgraded model or one of the current machines at a, presumably, much lower price.

 

[Mediking]

What is the point exactly? How is Sony going to market a slightly better PS4?

"Play your games at slightly better settings, order now!!"

Diehard Sony guys, Sony loyalists and tech guys are buying PS4K.

 

[Loudninja]

What is the point exactly? How is Sony going to market a slightly better PS4?

"Play your games at slightly better settings, order now!!"

They market it as a 4k player.

You now for games and movies.

 

[LostDonkey]

 

[tuxfool]

No, PS4 has GNM and GNMX for low and high level API which is more like OpenGL than DirectX.

It is like neither. But more of a mixture. I think the shading language is based on hlsl, psgl isn't used any more.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Banning PS4K exclusive games makes it sound much more like an enthusiast version of the PS4 for people who want more solid frame rates and so on. Smart move.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Yeah I'm intrigued by how Sony will go about marketing this.

4K streaming support, UHD player, better graphics...

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

They market it as a 4k player.

You now for games and movies.

Theres no reason PS4 couldn't do movies at 4k30hz, HDMI 1.4 allows for it.

It is like neither. But more of a mixture. I think the shading language is based on hlsl, psgl isn't used any more.

I must be getting confused with PSGL then, my bad.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I just don't buy the "this won't be a main focus for Sony" thing. They're not releasing a $400 box as some kind of side project. This will be pushed hard.

Sure, but the development priority doesn't change. They will obviously push a product they bought. that has nothing to do with taking away priority from PS4 in regards to developers.

 

[Obliterator]

I understand this point. What I am rebutting is the nonsense posts that doubling the gpu power, CPU clock and upping the RAM is going to have little to no effect on the fps of games.

It's like people don't have a clue what has been accomplished with the current ps4 specs thus far lol.

60 fps in games will be completely possible with this set up when optimized by developers in a closed system console like this, saying it will make little difference sounds a lot like pushing someone else's agenda tbh.

I mean sure it helps. I mean even that 30% boost to the CPU does make a difference that's not nothing to not take into account. We will see 60 fps games.

People should just really temper their expectations away from 1080p 60fps universal standard happening. It's just not going to happen with that CPU on many titles especially open world or AI heavy games.

 

[icespide]

I'm really hoping the console comes with a 5GHz WiFi adapter. Do you think we'll be able to record at 1080p/60fps with the new power opposed to the current 720p/30fps limit?

Sony is notoriously cheap with wifi stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if it had the same exact shitty wifi component as the PSPoor