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MS: Devs Could Make Scorpio Only Titles | (Update: Misspoke, no Scorpio exclusives)

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Now this is confusing. The very fact Scorpio will have VR means that it will have exclusive software.

Considering the means it is getting VR is via partnerships with other tech companies, companies which have all released their products on PC already, then it means it won't have any exclusive software. All those VR games, even if they were developed by MS, would also be available on PC.
 

AmyS

Member
2011-2012

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The Samaritan demo almost looks mundane now. Scorpio should be able to run full games with graphic fidelity like that, and better, at true 4K resolution - at 30fps or 60fps, depending on their target performance vs. visuals. And assuming devs are allowed to use whatever resolutions they want between 1080p and 2160p/4K, Scorpio should be able to blow Samaritan visuals out of the water at 1080p 60fps.

Should be feasible, I would think, right?
Especially when you realize Scorpio is getting very modern AMD GPU architecture, compared to what Samaritan was running on in 2011 (3X GTX 580s and 2012 (single GTX 680).
 

antonz

Member
It makes perfect sense and Sony will end up doing the same thing. That is the whole point of a cell phone style hardware cycle.

For 2-3 years maybe XBO/Scorpio and PS4/NEO will share titles but as time goes on in that 2-3 years you will see less and less support for XBO/PS4 until Scorpio/NEO become the new baseline and MS and Sony release a new Top and it will continue to cycle
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
This is nothing but good.


Eventually, iOS/PC games don't work with older models. As long as older games work with newer models, it's all good.
 
I know all of this is supposed to sell me on the Xbox brand, this is E3 after all, but its having the exact opposite effect. If console gaming truly does take the Apple approach to iterative hardware, I'm out. Thanks, Apple.

And yes, I said the same when the 'Neo' news hit. Sony and MS can both get stuffed.
 

AmyS

Member
It makes perfect sense and Sony will end up doing the same thing. That is the whole point of a cell phone style hardware cycle.

For 2-3 years maybe XBO/Scorpio and PS4/NEO will share titles but as time goes on in that 2-3 years you will see less and less support for XBO/PS4 until Scorpio/NEO become the new baseline and MS and Sony release a new Top and it will continue to cycle

Neo in early 2017, Scorpio in late 2017. Then PS5 and lets say Xbox Project Taurus in 2020 or 2021.

Game On.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I know all of this is supposed to sell me on the Xbox brand, this is E3 after all, but its having the exact opposite effect. If console gaming truly does take the Apple approach to iterative hardware, I'm out. Thanks, Apple.

And yes, I said the same when the 'Neo' news hit. Sony and MS can both get stuffed.


But why? There is absolutely nothing wrong with iterative hardware. Your Xbox One/PS4will still have at least a 5 year lifespan, almost assuredly longer.. Which Is fine and in line with previous generations.


Now we just have better options sooner for those who don't like waiting for tech to stagnate.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
It makes perfect sense and Sony will end up doing the same thing. That is the whole point of a cell phone style hardware cycle.

For 2-3 years maybe XBO/Scorpio and PS4/NEO will share titles but as time goes on in that 2-3 years you will see less and less support for XBO/PS4 until Scorpio/NEO become the new baseline and MS and Sony release a new Top and it will continue to cycle

I'm not sure this is Sony's stated intention. Andrew House's comments to the FT suggest otherwise, that their model won't be a generation-less, endless series of upgrades. It sounds like they plan a model of selective forward and backward compatible iterations within still well-defined software generations.

MS is pivoting away from an exclusive focus on consoles, is straddling a foot back into the PC space - so a looser, less traditional approach to compatibility may not be so surprising. But I think I'd wait from something clearer from them in that regard.
 
But why? There is absolutely nothing wrong with iterative hardware. Your Xbox One/PS4will still have at least a 5 year lifespan, almost assuredly longer.. Which Is fine and in line with previous generations.


Now we just have better options sooner for those who don't like waiting for tech to stagnate.
Because I'm not buying new hardware every 4 or 5 years. Can't afford it, wouldn't even if I could.
 
I know all of this is supposed to sell me on the Xbox brand, this is E3 after all, but its having the exact opposite effect. If console gaming truly does take the Apple approach to iterative hardware, I'm out. Thanks, Apple.

And yes, I said the same when the 'Neo' news hit. Sony and MS can both get stuffed.
Iterative hardware, definitely a concept unique to Apple in the consumer electronics marketplace. /s
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
The Samaritan demo almost looks mundane now.

Please name just one console game that looks better than that demo with the same image quality? There is none. A game with assets on that level of detail takes half a decade to develop.
 

AmyS

Member
Please name just one console game that looks better than that demo with the same image quality? There is none. A game with assets on that level of detail takes half a decade to develop.

You are right, no argument from me. There really aren't any.

I guess I've just been blinded over the last 4-5 years or so by so many good looking games, trailers, target renders, tech demos, on consoles etc, and even though no console game is technically as advanced as Epic's tech demo, it's almost like a blur. to me. It doesn't look shocking to me like it did in 2011 when I was used to 360/PS3 graphics..

Me saying the Samaritan demo "almost looks mundane now" wasn't meant to be a real comparison.
 
But why? There is absolutely nothing wrong with iterative hardware. Your Xbox One/PS4will still have at least a 5 year lifespan, almost assuredly longer.. Which Is fine and in line with previous generations.


Now we just have better options sooner for those who don't like waiting for tech to stagnate.

I've only bought four PS4 games since it launched. If Sony and MS plan to ramp up the generations, it's not financially worthwhile for me to keep investing $400 for a few games. It just makes PC gaming more appealing.
 

Daeda

Member
If we are really moving to a generation less console experience (something I fully expect now that consoles are basically PCs with fixed specs) it is only logical that in due time older models will become unsupported. Im pretty sure that in the first few years of Scorpio, the XBO will be fully supported. But this new future implies that a couple of years after Scorpio, we get another update, and a few years after that another. So yeah, in due time older version will have to loose support, much like in due time your PC videocard becomes unsupported. I dont think it will really be a problem, because in the long run, it will also be the theoretical strength of the system. You games will run on five year old hardware, and they will run in hardware that wil launch in five years. Some just a little less pretty (think medium graphic settings on PC) on one hardware than on the other. In the end, it really is a better deal than being told you have to buy new hardware this instant to play the latest games. And choose when you feel it is time to upgrade. But yeah, at some point wed get either a completely new console generation, which is pointless from a hardware/software perspective considering the XBO/PS4 architecture, that requires you to buy a new console anyway and may no longer allow you access to your library. Or you get locked out at some point in the future. So while I can understand why one would be frightfull of this, it really is the best path to take imo.
 
Ok so Scorpio will be backwards compatible but XBOX One won't be forward compatible? Will the Scorpio be forward compatible with what comes next I wonder.
 

Ploid 3.0

Member
Microsoft is pushing PC windows 10 gaming so hard right now. They are basically saying just get PC and not worry about the console hardware updates and compatibility.
 
Microsoft is pushing PC windows 10 gaming so hard right now. They are basically saying just get PC and not worry about the console hardware updates and compatibility.

Microsoft are not pushing PC, they are pushing UWP. And fuck that. If anything this whole thing shows how scared shitless they are of Vulkan. Go Vulkan.
 

Doikor

Member
I've only bought four PS4 games since it launched. If Sony and MS plan to ramp up the generations, it's not financially worthwhile for me to keep investing $400 for a few games. It just makes PC gaming more appealing.

That kinda is the idea. It is very clear that Microsoft is pushing Xbox as a platform not as a device. They want you to buy into it in what ever form possible. Once you have enough invested in it it will be very hard to let go (Kinda like what happens with android/iOS on phones. I would have changed to android a long time ago but I got all my apps bought and paid for on iOS so its not happening)

edit: And about the scorpio only games I don't see that happening for a while (outside of VR games). Maybe something like having a slim scorpio in 2 to 3 years after scorpios launch. A year or two after that we would get Scorpio 2.0 and at that point requirement for games working with the original xbox one would be dropped (but still allowed for developers if they choose to do so). You could repeat this cycle again and again and always give a good 5 to 6 years of new xbox games being playable on whatever xbox console you end up buying.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
You are right, no argument from me. There really aren't any.

I guess I've just been blinded over the last 4-5 years or so by so many good looking games, trailers, target renders, tech demos, on consoles etc, and even though no console game is technically as advanced as Epic's tech demo, it's almost like a blur. to me. It doesn't look shocking to me like it did in 2011 when I was used to 360/PS3 graphics..

Me saying the Samaritan demo "almost looks mundane now" wasn't meant to be a real comparison.

Yes, it finally looks like something that can be achieved (given a high enough budget). However the amount of devs that can do that is pretty small. I don't think an exclusive could do it, it has to be a multiplatform game. I see only one game that might actually do it, GTA 7. They know they sell enough to make it work.
 

sun-drop

Member
It makes perfect sense and Sony will end up doing the same thing. That is the whole point of a cell phone style hardware cycle.

For 2-3 years maybe XBO/Scorpio and PS4/NEO will share titles but as time goes on in that 2-3 years you will see less and less support for XBO/PS4 until Scorpio/NEO become the new baseline and MS and Sony release a new Top and it will continue to cycle


Sony isn't dumb enough to do a yearly cycle, and if ms open it up like that they are screwed.

Gamers spend a grand to get better looking games


People buy new phones for reasons other than software, Facebook looks the same running on a galaxy s3 as it does a s7

And console games take 3 to four years to make.

A hardware upgrade every year is flat out retarded
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Because I'm not buying new hardware every 4 or 5 years. Can't afford it, wouldn't even if I could.

No one is saying you have to. Iterative hardware does not mean you have to upgrade. And generations previous to the 360/PS3 only lasted 4-5 years in general. These current consoles will last at MINIMUM 5 years, and likely longer. So I don't understand your fuss?


I've only bought four PS4 games since it launched. If Sony and MS plan to ramp up the generations, it's not financially worthwhile for me to keep investing $400 for a few games. It just makes PC gaming more appealing.


You bought a $400 for 200 or so dollars or less worth of games over the past 3 years? That sounds like a poor investment to begin with.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Microsoft are not pushing PC, they are pushing UWP. And fuck that. If anything this whole thing shows how scared shitless they are of Vulkan. Go Vulkan.

They are as scared about Vulkan as they are about SteamOS. Vulkan simply makes no sense when you already have to develop for Sony's graphics API and DirectX for Xbox One. The logical choice is to use DirectX on PC as well. If Sony were to use Vulkan, that's when things might get scary for Microsoft.
 

antonz

Member
Sony isn't dumb enough to do a yearly cycle, and if ms open it up like that they are screwed.

Gamers spend a grand to get better looking games


People buy new phones for reasons other than software, Facebook looks the same running on a galaxy s3 as it does a s7

And console games take 3 to four years to make.

A hardware upgrade every year is flat out retarded

It won't be yearly If anything it will be every 3 years. That way Each version gets roughly 5 years of support before its phased out. Standard gamers will get their traditional cycle while people who always need the latest and greatest will be paying a higher cost every 3 years to stay at the head of the power curve available. For Sony and MS its a big win. Because there will be enough people who need the latest each time that they will end up spending basically double on hardware compared to what they would under the old system of 1 power level system for the entire generation
 
They are as scared about Vulkan as they are about SteamOS. Vulkan simply makes no sense when you already have to develop for Sony's graphics API and DirectX for Xbox One. The logical choice is to use DirectX on PC as well. If Sony were to use Vulkan, that's when things might get scary for Microsoft.

This is not true at all. Microsoft hid DX12 behind its Windows 10 platform and is hiding its games behind the UWP walled garden. That's not PC gaming at large and that's not exactly developing for PC. That's developing for UWP. Doom running on Vulkan as comfortably as is is a testament to how good it will be.

It will be available on ALL PCs, from older Windows to Linux. And yes, MS IS scared shitless of Vulkan because losing their API monopoly would completely FUCK them. They sat on their asses for a decade before going "oh we need to get our shit together wtf is this Mantle thing". They singlehandedly held back PC gaming for a decade. Vulkan is the future.
 

hesido

Member
I think this is better than the half cycle upgrade Sony's doing (in terms of jump of performance, since we could compare it to Xbox 1 the jump will be big)
 
You bought a $400 for 200 or so dollars or less worth of games over the past 3 years? That sounds like a poor investment to begin with.
My expectation is that there will be more games to buy before the system is done. I think I ended up with about 20 games on my PS3 over its lifetime.
 

madmackem

Member
Well, that's good. Now developers at least don't need to be held back by a 1.2 TF baseline if they don't want to.
Is it good news?. Sony got untold shit for even thinking of a new version of the console and they were going to force ps4 support not to leave behind thier customers, now ms is bisc ally throwing the user base that's kept thier machine relevant under the bus if this is true.
 
The new approach that they take with Neo and Scorpio (and probably NX) is really interesting to see.

Mandatory BC for PS4 is great for the existing owners who don't need to worry about upgrading. While Scorpio exclusives makes sure some 'next-gen' titles won't be held back technically because of the previous iteration.

We'll find out eventually what we as a consumer value most.
 

Doikor

Member
This is not true at all. Microsoft hid DX12 behind its Windows 10 platform and is hiding its games behind the UWP walled garden. That's not PC gaming at large and that's not exactly developing for PC. That's developing for UWP. Doom running on Vulkan as comfortably as is is a testament to how good it will be.

It will be available on ALL PCs, from older Windows to Linux. And yes, MS IS scared shitless of Vulkan because losing their API monopoly would completely FUCK them. They sat on their asses for a decade before going "oh we need to get our shit together wtf is this Mantle thing". They singlehandedly held back PC gaming for a decade. Vulkan is the future.

Doom is kinda a outlier in the windows gaming world. id tech engines have been using opengl for a long time instead of directx so moving to vulcan was natural for them. Pretty much nothing in gaming outside of id tech uses opengl.

Once you see Unreal Engine, CryEngine, Frostbite or Unity ship with Vulcan as the default API then we are talking (Who knows it might happen once Vulcan matures a bit).

One thing you have to remember is that DirectX brings in a lot more then just Direct3D. It also handles input, sound, etc. for which you would have to bring in some other library if you are using opengl/vulcan.
 

ViciousDS

Banned
This is nothing but good.


Eventually, iOS/PC games don't work with older models. As long as older games work with newer models, it's all good.


I'm pretty sure there are still a ton of games using the 4s as the lowest dominator....... You cannot compare mobile to the home console market. We can trade in with no penalty our phones......a console, you buy outright...... Not spend $20 a month for a year and upgrade
 

Illucio

Banned
GBA / DS Scenario happening?

They're going to tell us it's not a new gen console then flip the switch 1-2 years in? I'm really raising my eyebrows with this right now.

I made this joke earlier but the more information we receive the more it seems true.

I have this fishy suspicion Xbox Scorpio will be a next gen console and their going along with Nintendo who is releasing the NX next year to start next gen early so Playstation falls behind and needs to play catch up, all while pushing both Microsoft and Nintendo into the lead. But secretly Microsoft and Nintendo have knifes behind their back ready to stab each other at any time.

They are pushing this as choice, but the main benefits of owning a console is the standardized hardware and optimization. Taking that away is creating better devices year by year like Cell Phones with each one being so easily outdated because developers quickly move onto the next hardware because they have more to work with. Rather then optimizing with what they have and learning new ways to have games run on weaker hardware and how they can implement those ideas elsewhere.

There is nothing wrong with choice, but there's a reason we have console generations and why consoles have been so strong and prevalent over the years. And that's simply having a fixed standard of where everyone should be.

PC is great because mods can take you further if you have newer or better hardware (that is also very expensive) that the general crowd doesn't play. That's fine, the game companies aren't making them, the fans are who want to make a more visually impressive game and show off what games could look like in the coming years.

I generally feel like I'm going against the status quo but I'm HIGHLY against this idea of half generations or better hardware of the same system. If this is the case for consoles I'd rather just invest in PC at that point and leave consoles behind entirely because the cost of constantly updating an entirely new console every 2-3 years just to remain up to date would become insanely expensive and not worth the investment as opposed to constantly updating your PC every 2-3 years.

Overall Microsoft is really pushing to stay relevant, Nintendo keeps talking about having similar ideas, and Sony is sort of watching the trends and considering if this is the best move for them in the long run. But what scares me is the thought there are better methods that can be discovered in the long run that won't be used in favor of constantly upgrading and exhausting the need to improve our hardware rather then working with what we have. It's worked wonders for us doing that for years and everyone has benefited from that.
 

jelly

Member
They aren't going to waste 5TF on current gen games. Initially I think you'll see cross over and for the majority 1st/3rd parties but you wouldn't give up the chance to make something way beyond old consoles that could be the next big thing on Scorpio and Windows 10 to fall back on.
 

jelly

Member
Why not call it a new generation then?

Then why buy an Xbox One, they are just misleading. They won't drop Xbox One support but so want that era over with and hope Sony bite with a Scorpio level console which gets the current gen over with quicker. Not sure Sony will follow though, would be silly to do so.
 

Starfield

Member
Make exclusive at max settings/1080p+ for Scorpio, same game medium settings/900p fir xbox one.

Xbox One games = uo to 4/60fps on Scorpio

And so on
 

Bedlam

Member
But why? There is absolutely nothing wrong with iterative hardware. Your Xbox One/PS4will still have at least a 5 year lifespan, almost assuredly longer.. Which Is fine and in line with previous generations.


Now we just have better options sooner for those who don't like waiting for tech to stagnate.
As opposed to previous generations with fixed hardware all the way through, games will not leverage the hardware as optimally though as soon as the newer model is out. It's a disadvantage for players who like to keep one box for the whole generation. Instead of games which use the hardware increasingly effective until the very end of the generation, you'll likely get getty shitty down-ports for the older models.

I will probably opt out of the whole console landscape as well due to this. It's not the concept anymore that I like and want for my console gaming hobby. I'm not buying phones every year either.

I might as well get a new PC and enjoy the additional advantages there (cheaper games, more open ecosystems and so on).
 

Portugeezer

Member
Horrible, and contradicts what Phil Spenser said on stage.

Luckily I don't think most developers will make Scorpio only games, maybe some Indie devs because they just don't give a fuck sometimes.
 

daveo42

Banned
I think the market will dictate Scorpio only games, not devs themselves. They'll probably put in the extra work to offer a low/med/high mode so that it works across three platforms. It just depends on how much extra work they are willing to do and how much the X1 will hold back the game on higher-end systems.
 
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