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[Chû Totoro]

I think he's trying to say that power can be used for 4K or for anything. It's not like there's nothing they could improve using this extra power when we look at the current Xbox One games.

If the devs think there are not enough 4K TVs out there then they won't have to go for 4K with downsampling for lower res TV, they'll go for 1080p / 60 fps directly (hoping that they at least target stable 60 fps and won't use all the extra power for eye candy).

At least that's what I understand.

note: 1080p is not forced on Xbox One and PS4, think this as a same logic. Capable is not the same as obligatory.

 

[Yurikerr]

In the video description it says (literally): "Includes the newly streamlined Xbox Wireless Controller". Of course the OP had to go with the line that said otherwise.

The line that was on the video, that it's on the official youtube channel. Can't you see the contradiction?

Like, that's the same thing that's being discussed at this topic. Microsoft recently has a problem in passing the same message two times. It happens with dumb controllers and with consoles that didn't launched.

I think he's trying to say that power can be used for 4K or for anything. It's not like there's nothing they could improve using this extra power when we look at the current Xbox One games.

If the devs think there are not enough 4K TVs out there then they won't have to go for 4K with downsampling for lower res TV, they'll go for 1080p / 60 fps directly (hoping that they at least target stable 60 fps and won't use all the extra power for eye candy).

At least that's what I understand.

note: 1080p is not forced on Xbox One and PS4, think this as a same logic. Capable is not the same as obligatory.

Something that nobody answered me yet. Do current (or past) consoles are capable of automatically downsampling or enhancing the performance of games if we set them at a resolution lower than the target? Or it depends on devs actively developing different profiles?

 

[GinoFelino]

In the video description it says (literally): "Includes the newly streamlined Xbox Wireless Controller". Of course the OP had to go with the line that said otherwise.

But there was a line that said otherwise.

Like if I say you're being willfully ignorant right now, but I also say you're being the most rational person in this thread, those things can't both be true.

 

[mcrommert]

Every.single.e3

Every single time they announce something cool like this they have to put their foot in their mouth because their messaging is so bad and confused and different people say completely different things

Thank god they have a year and a half to get it right

EDIT: And why can't they just say for games that are targetting 4k, that on a 1080p tv they will just supersample? Any reason whynot?

 

[Zedox]

This corporate sucking up shit is just embarrassing

Or you can just use your head. What's more embarrassing is that gaming enthusiasts are confused about this. But that's my opinion. More power, enhanced graphics. Like I said, they could have been more clearer with what they are saying, but it's not a hard concept to grasp.

 

[Apathy]

I do find it rather funny that the Scorpio, exactly like the Xbox one reveal, is having Xbox executives saying multiple things that sometimes contradict each other.

 

[BleedOrange]

Really bad PR from Spencer here. Of course dev's can target the Scorpio Hardware Profile @ 1080p, giving them more headroom for AA, FPS, etc., just like they'll be able to target the Scorpio Hardware Profile @ 4K, but Spencer's wording here was truly awful.

 

[GinoFelino]

Or you can just use your head. What's more embarrassing is that gaming enthusiasts are confused about this. But that's my opinion. More power, enhanced graphics. Like I said, they could have been more clearer with what they are saying, but it's not a hard concept to grasp.

If you simplify it to a point where it means basically nothing, yeah, it's not hard to grasp.

 

[Floody]

In the video description it says (literally): "Includes the newly streamlined Xbox Wireless Controller". Of course the OP had to go with the line that said otherwise.

Isn't that exactly MS' problem, one source say something, another contradicts it? Sure that was probably just a cock-up, but most would just see what was in the video and that will be the message they got, so will run with it.

 

[sunshine and gasoline]

Smh. Microsoft really needed clear messaging regarding the Scorpio but they dropped the ball hard. Luckily, for them, they have a long time to get their messaging clear.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

Yet in the video it said it didn't

So what's your fucking point ?

That it was pretty obvious that the "controller not included" was a mistake so it was the 4K thing? It's like people are being obtuse on purpose.

 

[Zedox]

If you simplify it to a point where it means basically nothing, yeah, it's not hard to grasp.

Keep fighting to stay confused if you want. That's your choice.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

What's going to basically happen when Sony unveils the Neo is that they will make a big push for 1080p with enhanced visuals/etc/etc and also mention some talk about 4k.

They are just sitting back absorbing all of this and formulating their execution on delivering a powerful message. MS just made it really easy for them second time in a row, when you think about it.

Even though I understand what he was trying to get at, stuff like this spreads like wildfire to people who don't have a clear understanding of this stuff. They should certainly make the message clear.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Or you can just use your head. What's more embarrassing is that gaming enthusiasts are confused about this. But that's my opinion. More power, enhanced graphics. Like I said, they could have been more clearer with what they are saying, but it's not a hard concept to grasp.

But when you have company officials spouting contradictory statements multiple times within a short space of time, it becomes hard to understand their true point.

While this doesnt have to be some malicious attempt to confuse consumers, even though a lot is to probably stop people from deciding not to buy the XBO and wait for Scorpio, the fact that a company has shown repeatedly that they cant seem to agree on one message and continue to confuse and complicate a 'simple' issue isnt our fault and deserves to be called out.

It isnt our job to read between company lines, adding multiple statements and taking out which info we belive is correct. Its their job to actually brief people on what their product is in a clear and concise way.

I mean, whats next, when people call them out on this shitty messaging they come out with "People just didnt understand our vision" like they did last time?

 

[Papacheeks]

Feels like they weren't ready yet to talk about this.

 

[krang]

The line that was on the video, that it's on the official youtube channel. Can't you see the contradiction?

Then OP should mention both. Or seek to clarify it.

 

[GinoFelino]

That it was pretty obvious that the "controller not included" was a mistake so it was the 4K thing? It's like people are being obtuse on purpose.

Someone's being obtuse, alright. What's 'the 4K thing'? And regarding the controller, the mistake could've been the other piece of information. You know, the little piece of text under the video instead of the information in the pre-produced high-budget PR video?

People are supposed to somehow guess which of those pieces of info is correct?

Keep fighting to stay confused if you want. That's your choice.

You're right.

Every console from now on should just be announced with 'More power, enhanced graphics' as the only piece of information provided. Anything else is just people trying to be confused.

It's gonna be great.

 

[Dictator93]

I mean, if you are adept at newspeak and the ability to hold two negating thoughts in your head... then this makes a lot of sense.

IMO, it needs clarification so as to best understand what exactly Scorpio brings to people who own 1080p sets.

 

[Yurikerr]

Then OP should mention both. Or seek to clarify it.

Wasn't the OP updated when it was confirmed that the controller is included?

 

[RealityCheque]

One simple aim for devs to aspire to: 1080/60

 

[meppi]

What this mess has taught me is that these guys never really learn. SMH

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Or you can just use your head. What's more embarrassing is that gaming enthusiasts are confused about this. But that's my opinion. More power, enhanced graphics. Like I said, they could have been more clearer with what they are saying, but it's not a hard concept to grasp.

I see what you mean here, but their miscommunication is really damn bad here. Spencer is now making people believe it's just a 4K console with very little other benefits.

I understand the confusion, because first they say it's up to developers and slightly later they say if you don't have a 4K TV, you don't need one. But if say...Rockstar chooses for 1080p, so they can have much better graphical fidelity...how is that not worth it to full HD TV owners?

MS is not at their best now.

 

[Tigress]

It seems like they themselves have no idea what Scorpio will and won't do.

I think this is it. They haven't nailed down yet exactly what they want to use the power for. Or rather they had an idea but his far ahead nothing is set in stone and they are seeing bad reaction to their idea so they're trying to change is around. Seems like they want to pretend they didn't say the earlier thing while they are at it. At least that is what I am getting from all this.

 

[Freeman]

Concatenate a [ ,maybe.] at the end of every sentence he says and things start to make sense.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

That it was pretty obvious that the "controller not included" was a mistake so it was the 4K thing? It's like people are being obtuse on purpose.

Lmao

This fucking guy

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

Someone's being obtuse, alright. What's 'the 4K thing'? And regarding the controller, the mistake could've been the other piece of information. You know, the little piece of text under the video instead of the information in the pre-produced high-budget PR video?

People are supposed to somehow guess which of those pieces of info is correct?

But the thread title was "Xbox One S does not include a controller; sold separately" instead of "Xbox One S could not include a controller, conflicting reports".

The 4K was the drama that unfolded this morning. They made it clear that the extra power could be used in any way the devs wanted so it was pretty clear that the statement was wrong or completely out of context.

 

[EGM1966]

So which one is it?

Coherence. How does it work?

Either MS believe they're cunningly playing to different demographics here in a way that will be overall positive or yet again they're falling into the trap of confusing their consumer base as to what the hell their product actually delivers.

 

[Brudinho]

Microsoft , please stop confusing us.
Only say something after you finished thinking about it.+

Thanks.

 

[Sulik2]

Awesome give 1080 30 with fantastic graphics and physics on the scorpion.

 

[……forgetit]

Microsoft bad at framing a message? When has this happened before?

 

[Herp Derpington]

Manufactured confusion. That's all this is. I'm trying to imagine a scenario here where you open your shiny new Xbox One S and set it up without a controller. As that's impossible it's safe to assume a controller comes with the system. Likely what happened is a mistype on the video but as it's seemingly forever in vogue to rip on any and every mistake MS makes let's take a trivial issue and blow it all out of proportion.

The bigger issue is Phil speaking out about Scorpio. As he wouldn't outright tell a potential customer to not purchase one it can be rationalized that either he was confused/mistaken in how he was trying to answer or he was told incorrect information to say by an assistant. It's pretty easy to understand what he was trying to say when you rationalize it but again when the point isn't to be fair in criticism of the company (in part based on their mixed messaging to be fair) this sort of conversation is to be expected. I'm just confused on why people are getting upset and having to defend it. At this point people willing to buy the system or unwilling to aren't going to be dissuaded either way so just accept that we have at least a year to get the facts straight and see where we stand then.

 

[Chû Totoro]

The line that was on the video, that it's on the official youtube channel. Can't you see the contradiction?

Like, that's the same thing that's being discussed at this topic. Microsoft recently has a problem in passing the same message two times. It happens with dumb controllers and with consoles that didn't launched.



Something that nobody answered me yet. Do current (or past) consoles are capable of automatically downsampling or enhancing the performance of games if we set them at a resolution lower than the target? Or it depends on devs actively developing different profiles?

I can't answer precisely (on a technical point of view) but some people here may have the exact answer.

Still the consoles can use assets from different res and output them at a same res. It won't enhance the performance of game like a switch the player can turn on or off but it gives devs more power to use so the game can perform better.

For Scorpio devs will be able to:
- make 4K games
> 4K TVs will offer the best experience
> Full HD TVs will offer a similar performing game but with 1080p output
=> some power is sort of wasted for 4K if most of users are on full HD TVs
- make 1080p games
> 4K TVs will offer a better experience (TV or console can both do the upscaling...)
> Full HD TVs will offer a similar performing game but with 1080p output
=> less power wasted and better performing game for everyone

I assume it's so devs can handle the overlapping between Full HD and 4K in the gaming community wiithout wasting the extra power.

note: again this is how I understand it

 

[GinoFelino]

Manufactured confusion. That's all this is. I'm trying to imagine a scenario here where you open your shiny new Xbox One S and set it up without a controller. As that's impossible it's safe to assume a controller comes with the system. Likely what happened is a mistype on the video but as it's seemingly forever in vogue to rip on any and every mistake MS makes let's take a trivial issue and blow it all out of proportion.

The bigger issue is Phil speaking out about Scorpio. As he wouldn't outright tell a potential customer to not purchase one it can be rationalized that either he was confused/mistaken in how he was trying to answer or he was told incorrect information to say by an assistant. It's pretty easy to understand what he was trying to say when you rationalize it but again when the point isn't to be fair in criticism of the company (in part based on their mixed messaging to be fair) this sort of conversation is to be expected. I'm just confused on why people are getting upset and having to defend it. At this point people willing to buy the system or unwilling to aren't going to be dissuaded either way so just accept that we have at least a year to get the facts straight and see where we stand then.

This reads like you got more understanding of the confusion as your message went on.

Regarding the bolded: same goes for (New) 3DS and the lack of a power adapter. That still actually happened.

 

[Tigress]

Meaning 4K owners will see the benefit because Scorpio will be pushing 4K.

You're missing the only part. He specifically said in the other interview you won't see any benefit if you don't have 4K. And now it seems he's saying you could. You're being obtuse to be missing that part. He didn't say people with 4K Tvs would see benefit, he said only people with 4K Tvs. That's a huge difference in statements. One doesn't contradict this new info, the other one very much does.

 

[justsomeguy]

Scorpio being a 4k only machine would be exquisitely dumb, so I'm basically assuming that people have their wires crossed

That's what you'd think, but those original quotes were really black and white. Crazy. But I'm glad they've clarified.

 

[Griss]

I don't see the confusion here.

Two points:
a) Phil has said that the Scorpio was designed with devs to get 4k performance. That's the aim of the machine, and 4k TVs will take off over the next two years.
b) Phil has said that all Scorpio games must run on the XB1.

Therefore the obvious implication is that he assumes that devs will make XB1 games, and Scorpio will allow those games to run at 4k. If you don't have a 4k TV, what's the point?

But then someone asks him 'Are you going to force devs to upscale the XB1 games to 4k?' and he says 'No, I suppose not.' But it's still what he (and I) expect to happen.

 

[Zedox]

Someone's being obtuse, alright. What's 'the 4K thing'? And regarding the controller, the mistake could've been the other piece of information. You know, the little piece of text under the video instead of the information in the pre-produced high-budget PR video?

People are supposed to somehow guess which of those pieces of info is correct?



You're right.

Every console from now on should just be announced with 'More power, enhanced graphics' as the only piece of information provided. Anything else is just people trying to be confused.

It's gonna be great.

Jesus, this is why people get confused because of dumb stuff like that. Think. The guy said 4K gaming is what they designed the system for. So guess what, you're most likely getting 4K gaming and all the stuff in between it because it's up to devs at the end of the day. They built a box that can do it. It's the same for Sony (presumably). The box has more power so you can have enhanced graphics compared to what you have now. Is that better for you? Like I said, it's very freaking simple. You want to make it confusing because you want them to spell it out for you? Are you a kid?

I see what you mean here, but their miscommunication is really damn bad here. Spencer is now making people believe it's just a 4K console with very little other benefits.

I understand the confusion, because first they say it's up to developers and slightly later they say if you don't have a 4K TV, you don't need one. But if say...Rockstar chooses for 1080p, so they can have much better graphical fidelity...how is that not worth it to full HD TV owners?

MS is not at their best now.

Like I said, what they said could have been said much better...Microsoft is horrible at messaging and this is just another case. People actually being confused is the thing that I'm like..."wth, aren't you an enthusiast, you know what this is, don't act dumb". People can bash MS or any company for that matter for their bad messaging (and I agree with everyone that their messaging sucks). I just don't think that a gaming enthusiast board doesn't know exactly what's going on...a strong enough box to do 4K gaming.

 

[Herp Derpington]

This reads like you got more understanding of the confusion as your message went on.

Regarding the bolded: same goes for (New) 3DS and the lack of a power adapter. That still actually happened.

Yeah and that was a very confusing move by Nintendo regardless of their explanation on why they did it. It does put a damper on what I was trying to say but I can't imagine a scenario where they'd sell you a system and not a way to actually operate it. Maybe I'm being too considerate though, who knows.

 

[Skinny Pete]

Go home Phil, you're drunk

Yea this.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Mixed messages are not helping one bit. What is this thing?

4K handles, I think.

 

[Zedox]

Manufactured confusion. That's all this is. I'm trying to imagine a scenario here where you open your shiny new Xbox One S and set it up without a controller. As that's impossible it's safe to assume a controller comes with the system. Likely what happened is a mistype on the video but as it's seemingly forever in vogue to rip on any and every mistake MS makes let's take a trivial issue and blow it all out of proportion.

The bigger issue is Phil speaking out about Scorpio. As he wouldn't outright tell a potential customer to not purchase one it can be rationalized that either he was confused/mistaken in how he was trying to answer or he was told incorrect information to say by an assistant. It's pretty easy to understand what he was trying to say when you rationalize it but again when the point isn't to be fair in criticism of the company (in part based on their mixed messaging to be fair) this sort of conversation is to be expected. I'm just confused on why people are getting upset and having to defend it. At this point people willing to buy the system or unwilling to aren't going to be dissuaded either way so just accept that we have at least a year to get the facts straight and see where we stand then.

I agree with this.

 

[GinoFelino]

Jesus, this is why people get confused because of dumb stuff like that. Think. The guy said 4K gaming is what they designed the system for. So guess what, you're most likely getting 4K gaming and all the stuff in between it because it's up to devs at the end of the day. They built a box that can do it. It's the same for Sony (presumably). The box has more power so you can have enhanced graphics compared to what you have now. Is that better for you? Like I said, it's very freaking simple. You want to make it confusing because you want them to spell it out for you? Are you a kid?

NO. Are YOU a kid?

 

[CaptNink]

I thought Scorpio wouldn't do anything for a 1080p image? This has to be the most confusing messaging since the original Xbox One reveal, holy shit.

Here we go again!

GIFSoup

 

[Zedox]

NO. Are YOU a kid?

lol. You're cool.

 

[Syntsui]

Thank god you have over a year to send a clear message MS, what a disaster.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

He's just pimping it as a "4K Ready" machine. The OS will be native 4K, some token games will be 4K, all / most indies will be. The rest will be increased graphics etc just like Neo.

That's what will ultimately happen, no need for panic!

And this would be fine, but it just doesn't help that MS simply can't be clear about it. Why can Sony though?

I agree though, in the end they will definitely end up with a system we want. They have too...because if not...shit that can't end well for them.

 

[Art Vandilay]

Thank god you have over a year to send a clear message MS, what a disaster.

Not sure I'd take it that far. This isn't like the 2013 E3 disaster or even remotely close.

 

[GinoFelino]

Jesus, this is why people get confused because of dumb stuff like that. Think. The guy said 4K gaming is what they designed the system for. So guess what, you're most likely getting 4K gaming and all the stuff in between it because it's up to devs at the end of the day. They built a box that can do it. It's the same for Sony (presumably). The box has more power so you can have enhanced graphics compared to what you have now. Is that better for you? Like I said, it's very freaking simple. You want to make it confusing because you want them to spell it out for you? Are you a kid?

Like I said, what they said could have been said much better...Microsoft is horrible at messaging and this is just another case. People actually being confused is the thing that I'm like..."wth, aren't you an enthusiast, you know what this is, don't act dumb". People can bash MS or any company for that matter for their bad messaging (and I agree with everyone that their messaging sucks). I just don't think that a gaming enthusiast board doesn't know exactly what's going on...a strong enough box to do 4K gaming.

Alright, getting back to a serious reponse.

I don't think the '4K resolution as the main difference' guideline is stupid at all. It would make sense to have the same game running in native 4K, possibly with a better framerate if there's power to spare. That would fall in line with 'the same game on all platforms' message Phil was sending elsewhere and the '4K gaming box' Scorpio is intended to be, judging by Phil's remark on 'we didn't want to do a semi-upgrade this year because of 4K'.

What you said about it being simple: 'more power & enhanced graphics', sure, that ought to be the message for the masses.

But like you said, this is a gaming enthusiast board, and we like details on that sort of thing. And it's the details where Microsoft's communication on this broke down.

 

[Tigress]

Jesus, this is why people get confused because of dumb stuff like that. Think. The guy said 4K gaming is what they designed the system for. So guess what, you're most likely getting 4K gaming and all the stuff in between it because it's up to devs at the end of the day. They built a box that can do it. It's the same for Sony (presumably). The box has more power so you can have enhanced graphics compared to what you have now. Is that better for you? Like I said, it's very freaking simple. You want to make it confusing because you want them to spell it out for you? Are you a kid?

It's not freaking simple. That explanation makes sense to make sense of the two statements but it's also doing some deciding on what he was thinking. We're not mind readers. And it is a reasonable assumption that when he says you will not get benefit if you don't have a 4K tv that that is the only benefit it will give the game. He didn't say I think that is the benefit or I think that is how it will be used (that's you and the other guy putting an assumption on what he said), he just said you won't get benefit. So it's very reasonable that people took him at his word. Yes, maybe he was just postulatig what it could be used for and then that would make sense to what he said now. Or they could have already backtracked. Either way the message is muddled.

Also, you may have had a point that people are being obtuse if it was just a few people. When several people are confused it is a matter of bad messaging. Sure, maybe a few might get it but if you only could get a few to understand you the problem and a lot of people are confused, the problem is not the people not understanding you, it's the message you are putting out and how you are putting it out.

 

[Exploratory]

Thank god you have over a year to send a clear message MS, what a disaster.

Holy overreaction Batman. Their messaging is garbage but it's definitely not a "disaster".