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[JayWood2010]

Jesus, this is why people get confused because of dumb stuff like that. Think. The guy said 4K gaming is what they designed the system for. So guess what, you're most likely getting 4K gaming and all the stuff in between it because it's up to devs at the end of the day. They built a box that can do it. It's the same for Sony (presumably). The box has more power so you can have enhanced graphics compared to what you have now. Is that better for you? Like I said, it's very freaking simple. You want to make it confusing because you want them to spell it out for you? Are you a kid?

I like Xbox, but the simple thing to do would be to give one clear message.

I think a lot of it may be overblown on forums, as much of this is common sense, but Microsoft should just give a simple clear statement and stick with that.

 

[Zedox]

Alright, getting back to a serious reponse.

I don't think the '4K resolution as the main difference' guideline is stupid at all. It would make sense to have the same game running in native 4K, possibly with a better framerate if there's power to spare. That would fall in line with 'the same game on all platforms' message Phil was sending elsewhere and the '4K gaming box' Scorpio is intended to be, judging by Phil's remark on 'we didn't want to do a semi-upgrade this year because of 4K'.

What you said about it being simple: 'more power & enhanced graphics', sure, that ought to be the message for the masses.

But like you said, this is a gaming enthusiast board, and we like details on that sort of thing. And it's the details where Microsoft's communication on this broke down.

Fair enough point.

 

[SprachBrooks]

I think they should mandate a minimum of 1080p 60fps if games are not going for 4K.

 

[Blam]

Well I mean when the titles of the threads are horrible and don't well represent the articles. You get this.

Phil is saying that you won't be able to truly experience a Scorpio if you have a 4K TV, and now in this article he is saying that as a developer you don't need to make it for 4K but you can if you want to.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

And this would be fine, but it just doesn't help that MS simply can't be clear about it. Why can Sony though?

I agree though, in the end they will definitely end up with a system we want. They have too...because if not...shit that can't end well for them.

Sony has been in this game for a long time, they been there done that. Problem with MS is that I think they have good intentions but they are the youngest in the console space and they just sometimes simply suck at PR.

However, I still feel like this is PR 101 - "Scropio is going to be great and the games are going to look great regardless if you still have a 1080p TV or a 4K one, devs will be easy to use the power however they see fit for the game they want to target. Also, we still have the Slim that is a great for those who may want to upgrade their current models or those just looking for an entry point into the xbox family."

Something like that...I mean not really that hard.

 

[3rdamention]

I don't see the confusion here.

Two points:
a) Phil has said that the Scorpio was designed with devs to get 4k performance. That's the aim of the machine, and 4k TVs will take off over the next two years.
b) Phil has said that all Scorpio games must run on the XB1.

Therefore the obvious implication is that he assumes that devs will make XB1 games, and Scorpio will allow those games to run at 4k. If you don't have a 4k TV, what's the point?

But then someone asks him 'Are you going to force devs to upscale the XB1 games to 4k?' and he says 'No, I suppose not.' But it's still what he (and I) expect to happen.

That brings up the "What about Scorpio VR Titles?" How do they run on Xbox One?

 

[Ushay]

I think they should mandate a minimum of 1080p 60fps if games are not going for 4K.

Good point. I'may sure developers will be smart enough to decide this.

I' m wondering what games like Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, Crackdown and Deus Ex could look like on this beast.

 

[Zedox]

Sony has been in this game for a long time, they been there done that. Problem with MS is that I think they have good intentions but they are the youngest in the console space and they just sometimes simply suck at PR.

However, I still feel like this is PR 101 - "Scropio is going to be great and the games are going to look great regardless if you still have a 1080p TV or a 4K one, devs will be easy to use the power however they see fit for the game they want to target. Also, we still have the Slim that is a great for those who may want to upgrade their current models or those just looking for an entry point into the xbox family."

Something like that...I mean not really that hard.

Your statement is nice, MS should hire you for the big bucks. LOL.
MS really just needs to be clear with what is said. I don't agree with them being young in the game. It's the company as a whole haven't been good with messaging since forever.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

What they will probably do is most new games use dynamic scaling tech which we have seen a sample of already. Only now they will scale between 1080p and 4K, allowing for graphical improvements and increased resolutions.

Anyone with a 1080p TV will get down sampling "for free". No way will this machine only work on a 4K TV.

 

[c0de]

What is so hard to say “it's up to devs to exploit the hardware“?

 

[DeadlyParasite]

I'm not particularly sure what people find so confusing by this. Everything being up to the developers has always been the case.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Jesus, this is why people get confused because of dumb stuff like that. Think. The guy said 4K gaming is what they designed the system for. So guess what, you're most likely getting 4K gaming and all the stuff in between it because it's up to devs at the end of the day. They built a box that can do it. It's the same for Sony (presumably). The box has more power so you can have enhanced graphics compared to what you have now. Is that better for you? Like I said, it's very freaking simple. You want to make it confusing because you want them to spell it out for you? Are you a kid?



Like I said, what they said could have been said much better...Microsoft is horrible at messaging and this is just another case. People actually being confused is the thing that I'm like..."wth, aren't you an enthusiast, you know what this is, don't act dumb". People can bash MS or any company for that matter for their bad messaging (and I agree with everyone that their messaging sucks). I just don't think that a gaming enthusiast board doesn't know exactly what's going on...a strong enough box to do 4K gaming.

Mattrick sure was bad at it and other MS people too, but i definitely expected more from Phil Spencer to be honest. If you say one thing on day one and basically a completely different thing on day two......that will confuse folks.

At the end of the day, even if MS is actually right now intending to go for 4K only which i doubt, they will eventually change their tune, now that Sony has said ''higher resolution, better graphical experience.''

When MS properly reveals Scorpio, they will for sure show some things that will make people want to buy one.

I'm not particularly sure what people find so confusing by this. Everything being up to the developers has always been the case.

What confuses people is that Phil first says it is up to developers and later on basicslly says Scorpio is only interesting for 4K TV owners. Things really don't add up there.

 

[GinoFelino]

Fair enough point.

 

[ArtHands]

That brings up the "What about Scorpio VR Titles?" How do they run on Xbox One?

We only know it is capable of running VR titles. It could mean it is compatible with the HTC vive or oculus Rift and run PC VR games, or in other words, it replace the pc in this regard.

In this case they wouldn't count as Scorpio VR title. One thing for sure is xbox one won't have VR games.

 

[leeh]

What is so hard to say “it's up to devs to exploit the hardware“?

Lets face it, defining it as a 4K console is a great tag to use for the general consumer.

 

[Griss]

That brings up the "What about Scorpio VR Titles?" How do they run on Xbox One?

Hmmmm... with great difficulty or not at all.

I imagine that they may spin it off as 'Xbox Rift VR' and say that this is one category of games that will not work with XB1, as that was never intended to be a VR device. I think that would be fair.

Lets face it, defining it as a 4K console is a great tag to use for the general consumer.

Exactly. What's confusing to GAF will be clear as day to a general consumer. 4k console! This console is 4k! If you shelled out for a 4k TV you NEED this console to get the most out of it. It's fucking FOUR KAY!!!!!

 

[Maintenance]

I do find it rather funny that the Scorpio, exactly like the Xbox one reveal, is having Xbox executives saying multiple things that sometimes contradict each other.

It's like they thought "Why did we fucked it up? Bad PR? Nah, just make a stronger console"

 

[MilkyJoe]

I think it's easy.

Scorpio can run games at 4K for those who have a 4K tv, but it's obviously up to the developers to chose how to use the console power, they can make games at 1080p with better textures/lighting and frame rate, or push the 4K resolution but lower the overall quality.

Was that so hard to say, Phil?

Well he did say that in the video. But some time since then he seemed to trip up and bang his head and forget the plan.


Hundreds of comments in multiple threads, from people that already know that a 6 TF console is not going to be wasted on native 4K.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Your statement is nice, MS should hire you for the big bucks. LOL.
MS really just needs to be clear with what is said. I don't agree with them being young in the game. It's the company as a whole haven't been good with messaging since forever.

Actually your right, I was just looking at it from the Xbox Division, but yes they should of honed this skill by now.

Edit: LOL, yeah I mean probably could of said it even better than that but I just typed that without even thinking...so it's really not hard but shit I'd take a job to go work in their PR on xbox.

 

[Hidden One]

Microsoft confuses the hell outta me with their visions

 

[philion]

It seems clear enough to me.

A system that is capable of 4K will attract 4k titles. So therefore you will not benefit from this with a 1080p screen. But developers can also use 6TFlops for other visually impressive features in 1080p which is ideal for a 1080p screen.

It looks like next year, all the developers will say "Screw 4K not enough people have them, lets max out 1080, then when 4K screens gets popular we will be able to squeeze Scorpio to do nearly visually impressive 4K"

 

[c0de]

Lets face it, defining it as a 4K console is a great tag to use for the general consumer.

Of course but that doesn't negate my point. “It won't do much for 1080p“ meaning that a 4k game won't do much on 1080p is somehow right but leaving out that the power is in devs hands generates a lot of unneeded noise which is even more damaging as MS already has a bad image on enthusiasts sites.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

It's like they thought "Why did we fucked it up? Bad PR? Nah, just make a stronger console"

That, and they thought "people thought we were anti consumer so let's make a big show and dance about not leaving anyone behind. That'll win them over"

 

[Lighthouse]

Why not just be clear about it. I understand needing to maintain sales but the mixed messaging comes across as dishonest.

 

[Chao]

They don't even know how it works lmao.

 

[Proelite]

Selling the Xbox One S while having to sell Scorpio to two different crowds makes for difficult answers to interviews i guess.

No big deal in the end since the direction of the company is right. But it doesnt sound like the marketing for Scorpio is prepared yet.

 

[yog-sothot]

I hope the use of those 6 teraflops will be as free as the use of the power of the cloud

 

[MilkyJoe]

It seems clear enough to me.

A system that is capable of 4K will attract 4k titles. So therefore you will not benefit from this with a 1080p screen. But developers can also use 6TFlops for other visually impressive features in 1080p which is ideal for a 1080p screen.

It looks like next year, all the developers will say "Screw 4K not enough people have them, lets max out 1080, then when 4K screens gets popular we will be able to squeeze Scorpio to do nearly visually impressive 4K"

It's pretty crystal, but people like a good moan.

I see it more like racing games and more stylistic/cartoon-like graphics (less "photo-realistic" to use that out of context term) will see 4K releases, more AAA title devs are going to go for the eye candy. And I'm more than good with that.!

 

[Zedox]

You know what...MS was definitely right with coming out with this information right now...let them get their "feedback" about their PR now...lol. Got a whole 1.5 years to fix it. At least they were smart in that regard. LOL.

 

[Lighthouse]

Good point. I'may sure developers will be smart enough to decide this.

I' m wondering what games like Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, Crackdown and Deus Ex could look like on this beast.

This will be the gen of Re-remasters. Calling it now.

 

[c0de]

Selling the Xbox One S while having to sell Scorpio to two different crowds makes for difficult answers to interviews i guess.

No big deal in the end since the direction of the company is right. But it doesnt sound like the marketing for Scorpio is prepared yet.

There is already damage in the way Spencer will be recognized. It was bad before and gotten worse. He is done on GAF.

 

[old]

So games won't be 4K.

It's the same with 1080p. We've had consoles with 1080p since at least the PS3 and 360. Yet many games still don't reach it because devs choose to put resources elsewhere.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Sony has been in this game for a long time, they been there done that. Problem with MS is that I think they have good intentions but they are the youngest in the console space and they just sometimes simply suck at PR.

However, I still feel like this is PR 101 - "Scropio is going to be great and the games are going to look great regardless if you still have a 1080p TV or a 4K one, devs will be easy to use the power however they see fit for the game they want to target. Also, we still have the Slim that is a great for those who may want to upgrade their current models or those just looking for an entry point into the xbox family."

Something like that...I mean not really that hard.

Well said and i am sure it will eventually be like this, but the flipflopping is so unnecessary. I mean they already had the guts to announce two new systems in one show, so if all this talk is just to sell the Xbox S..........odd, really odd.

Your quote is exactly how they should have said it and no flipflopping.

 

[Jessie.Bristol]

I thought this was a given? Phil Spencer said as much during an interview with Major Nelson on Monday. They weren't going to mandate 4K and that devs could use the power however they wanted to.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

So games won't be 4K.

It's the same with 1080p. We've had consoles with 1080p since at least the PS3 and 360. Yet many games still don't reach it because devs choose to put resources elsewhere.

No. He's saying they will be 4K (at least their internal stuff) in the Eurogamer interview. He's pretty clear about that part.

 

[c0de]

No. He's saying they will be 4K (at least their internal stuff) in the Eurogamer interview. He's pretty clear about that part.

“Every game is 1080p because that's the signal the tv gets.“

 

[iamvin22]

It's clear that at this stage Scorpio is no more than a project goal, a PowerPoint presentation essentially.

Yup, everyone I've spoken to hasn't heard of nor has any type of documentation on it.

I think the dead give away was the interview with the Bethesda exec that said he knew about it but he couldn't even tell his staff about it?!? Yea that never happens.

 

[ricardo_sousa11]

I still believe this is a terrible idea...releasing new consoles so soon in their lifetime, IF they were only for 4k gaming, or slightly better framerate, but considering devs can use the power as they wish, games will be very different on both platforms and separate the community...

I hope im wrong, but its not likely, if this goes ahead, its a final nail in my console coffin. I bought a PS4 because I expected a lifetime supply of games of around 5-7 years (as all previous), with the new one coming out, I predict that games on the original PS4 will have atrocious bugs and problems, simply because devs will fine tune the better version.

 

[c0de]

Yup, everyone I've spoken to hasn't heard of nor has any type of documentation on it.

I think the dead give away was the interview with the Bethesda exec that said he knew about it but he couldn't even tell his staff about it?!? Yea that never happens.

Didn't Spencer say that they told in February and had it locked down?
But yes, Spencer said. Don't believe.

 

[Proelite]

There is already damage in the way Spencer will be recognized. It was bad before and gotten worse. He is done on GAF.

RIP Spencer.

 

[In Service]

IbelieveinPhilSpencer.jpeg

I just don't know what part to believe since none of this actually makes sense

I'm with you. I've been sticking up for Phil in a number of threads but it's actually getting a bit silly now. Even in the limited marketing meetings I've been involved in we have a short list of "lines" to use. Surely these statements should have been covered in planning.

I want to know whether, if I hold out for Scorpio, the games are going to look different/prettier and run faster on my 1080p TV. Please confirm.

Why not just be clear about it. I understand needing to maintain sales but the mixed messaging comes across as dishonest.

This is the sad thing. I don't think they are trying to give out mixed messaging. I wonder if the planning is just simply up in the air and this is a rushed announcement.

Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if the video they showed was shot 24 hours before E3 kicked off.

 

[nillapuddin]

I feel like some people are purposefully taking his quotes in that direction, when I read it, I took it as

(if you only have a 1080p TV, you wont be seeing it in 4K, therefore you will be missing out)

Im not sure I see the maliciousness?

Spoiler

How long until we just have graphics sliders

 

[anothertech]

2013 part II

The circle of confusion is complete.

 

[c0de]

I feel like some people are purposefully taking his quotes in that direction, when I read it, I took it as

(if you only have a 1080p TV, you wont be seeing it in 4K, therefore you will be missing out)

Im not sure I see the maliciousness?

Spoiler

How long until we just have graphics sliders

It's damaging even hurts the games. FH3 looks so awesome, yet don't expect it to sell well.
Games still sell, of course, but the image is so bad even for common people, that games are influenced by that. Which is a shame for the ones who put so much efforts in their games.

 

[KiraXD]

Good point. I'may sure developers will be smart enough to decide this.

They dont do that now though, what makes you think theyll do it with scorpio? most devs it seems, want to milk the system for everything its got making it graphically better. (which is why we get so many 30FPS games... devs would rather make an amazing looking 30FPS game @1080p with amazing graphics and effects... then to make a 720p game @60fps...)

You give them more power... they arent going to just stop upgrading visuals in return for framerate/resolution... it will forever be a battle between Graphics/Resolution/Framerate with compromises between 1 or 2 or across the board.

Then when games DO come out in high resolution/high framerate... people shit on it for looking like a last gen game... whhen the game looks amazing but runs @30fps people shit on that... and if its 1080p and 30fps but looks amazing people STILL SHIT ON IT..

Being a dev must stuck... always having your games be shit in the eyes of the internet regardless of how good it actually is.

 

[iamvin22]

Didn't Spencer say that they told in February and had it locked down?
But yes, Spencer said. Don't believe.

Not sure if he did or not. Will search now.

 

[Wavebossa]

I think they should mandate a minimum of 1080p 60fps if games are not going for 4K.

How would this be any different than previous generations hardware?

I think they will use the extra horsepower the way that they've always used the extra horsepower because that's what they do.

I wouldn't be surprised if games just had a bevy of different graphical options enhanced to the max on Scorpio instead of shooting for a 1080p and 60fps

They dont do that now though, what makes you think theyll do it with scorpio? most devs it seems, want to milk the system for everything its got making it graphically better. (which is why we get so many 30FPS games... devs would rather make an amazing looking 30FPS game @1080p with amazing graphics and effects... then to make a 720p game @60fps...)

You give them more power... they arent going to just stop upgrading visuals in return for framerate/resolution... it will forever be a battle between Graphics/Resolution/Framerate with compromises between 1 or 2 or across the board.

Then when games DO come out in high resolution/high framerate... people shit on it for looking like a last gen game... whhen the game looks amazing but runs @30fps people shit on that... and if its 1080p and 30fps but looks amazing people STILL SHIT ON IT..

Being a dev must stuck... always having your games be shit in the eyes of the internet regardless of how good it actually is.

Basically what he said

 

[hoos30]

I'm not particularly sure what people find so confusing by this. Everything being up to the developers has always been the case.

Nothing is confusing, but is it fun to piss and moan.

 

[Hex]

The flops the flops people.

 

[Cake Boss]

So will I be able to choose between 1080p with a higher framerate than 4k with a slower framerate.