You don't have to give out trophies, but positive reenforce is important for any kind of reform. If a police department is making serious attempts and progress at improving the current conditions, that should be publicly noticed as a positive example and encouraged to continue along that path. To deny doing that is to deny basic human psychology.
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Shots fired at Police during Dallas Police anti-violence protest (5 officers killed)
- Thread starter thenight11
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I don't know why they are wearing full body armor for a peaceful protest. Sends the wrong message.
If the protest is not peaceful, then I understand.
Yes and no. It does no good ignoring the context surrounding something. But yes, even 1 unwarranted murder is not acceptable or tolerable and until we can get to that ideal pressure should be strong and sustained.
However it would be unwise applying the facts, issues and accusations of the Baton Rouge police department with Dallas for example. Heck I would draw a stark line of notable differences between Baton Rouge and New Orleans and they are only an hour apart. Though of course they share many similarities but thats why investigating individual context is important, you can't know the right treatment without identifying the disease and how it is affecting someone.
kame-sennin
Member
Yeah, pointing out that police testimony is notoriously unreliable is a conspiracy theory.
Whatever happened to the two other snipers, the bombs, and the triangulation ambush btw?
It might have worked if the suspect had mental deficiencies. It happens quite a lot.
Some of us aren't ok with three of our brothers and sisters being lynched by the state.
These protests do not always remain peaceful.
Not saying we should be satisfied at all, but giving props to those that are actually trying is important I think, since others are just covering their eyes and pretending the problem doesn't even exist.
No I understand that. But when progress is being made, especially in this climate, however small, and people start going in on the people actually taking those steps instead of washing their hands of it, it can be detrimental to others to follow. That's all I am saying.
I got a bit frustrated because I've seen folks on the board talk about how police should be disbanded and such, I misspoke. Forgive me.
In this climate, in my opinion we should be elevating people who DO do the right thing, because it is apparently hard to do that. Holding up them as examples, instead of saying 'yeah but they haven't' will encourage more people to take action instead of, like I said above, ignoring the problem.
Sorry I upset folks, I didn't mean to.
When the status quo IS people murdering for no fucking reason, yeah, I think we should give kudos to those that don't because they are trying. But again, like I said, I didn't mean to upset folks. >.<
I'm a bit dumb when it comes to like, giving people credit and having faith in humanity and all
One of those people that tends to see the best in others. It's a flaw, seriously, because it gets in my trouble as seen here.Yes and riot gear can escalate the emotions during a protest.
Police Chief Nick Metz agrees.
https://www.denverpost.com/2016/07/08/denver-police-union-officers-riot-gear/
Wow, an apology on neogaf! Accepted lol.
GoldenEye 007
Member
It's pretty common for there to be inconsistencies and incorrect information during an active event. Everyone thought there was a 5th hijacking during 9/11 too.
If that was really all you wanted to say then you would have said it thus.
I kinda feel like you wasted a lot of words just to call me stupid because I dislike cops and I think they're generally improving too slowly. I think we're technically on the same side, but you don't like that I'm angrier and less satisfied than you are. That's weird to me.
I'll blame police action for a lot of things. I'm not going to blame police for the handful of bad protestors for violently reacting to riot gear that essentially set off the protest no longer being peaceful. Body armor is a defensive measure.
I definitely think it is a balance that needs to be maintained but is difficult to grasp what that right balance is?
Too much praise can lead to a false sense of accomplishment and complacency. No recognition of positive change and you run the risk of losing larger public support and stiff entrenchment.
All issues that are mostly(hopefully) down the line as progress begins to happen more widely and more strongly, but right now probably should be kept to a minimum and reserved for the few good examples.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Ferguson would like to have a word with you. You come out the gate looking like you ready for war, and some people gonna take it the wrong way.
I don't like poisoning the conversation of complex issues with lazy intellectual inquiry, overused broad-brushing and rigid indifference to context. I think it is to no benefit for anyone involved.
Not trying to sound too harsh but it is always a pet peeve of mine in pretty much any topic I get involved in.
Because literally a couple days ago five officers were murdered by a racist psychopath at the end of the peaceful protest. If you were a cop wouldn't you be wearing body armor too?
This entire debate about whether we're allowed to call the guy racist is really dumb. He targeted a specific race, he's racist. That doesn't diminish what BLM is fighting for in the slightest and it doesn't lessen the tragedy of the countless black lives lost to cops.
Racism is a problem in all communities and cultures, and we should be calling it what it is regardless of the color of someone's skin. If anything this should be unifying people against racism not driving more of a wedge between us.
Then I hope you never become a police officer.
It's not about putting blame on officers for wearing gear. Wear it if you need it. Deescalating situations, protecting and serving should be the #1 concern. For them to do anything that would escalate a situation only illustrates the irony of the problem we have today.
With that logic officers should roll down the street in tanks from now on. You're comparing a situation which wasn't even the fault of the peaceful protesters. The shooter was not in support of BLM or the protest.
That's why I try to praise folks who are taking steps, and will start criticizing when they decide they've done enough. There IS a balance to be had, and being black and white on the issue isn't the right take, in my eyes.
It's a wall of officers just wearing body armor. I see no weapons in hands. Since when is body armor "escalating"? This is ridiculous. Those officers in that photo have not done anything wrong or careless. They wore body armor. Body armor isn't dangerous. Body armor isn't a threat. Body armor is purely a defensive measure that is defensive in a peaceful manner.
This is one of those things where context is important. I am personally of the opinion that unless 100% warranted, treating the citizens that are paying you to protect them through tax dollars like they are under military occupation, looking for any chance to arrest and take away a citizens right to protest, is not the right strategy.
I think, for instance, the BRPD handled this recent protest in one of the most ridiculous, absurd, over the top ways I could of imagined. It hasn't gotten much coverage but the arrests, the way they treated what was a small protest, that were largely adhering to their ridiculous demands, was pitiful. Contrast that to the protest in Dallas and its downright shameful.
This sounds a whole lot like a "don't dress so sexy if you don't want the attention" type argument.
Don't know if it was posted yet, but pictures of the aftermath have been leaked, and among them show his weapon.
It's now confirmed he was not using an SKS, but an Saiga AK-74 Sporter.
You can tell it's an AK-74 by looking at the magazine, it has the curve for 5.45x39mm ammunition and you can tell it's a Saiga by looking at the characteristic handguard.
It's now confirmed he was not using an SKS, but an Saiga AK-74 Sporter.
You can tell it's an AK-74 by looking at the magazine, it has the curve for 5.45x39mm ammunition and you can tell it's a Saiga by looking at the characteristic handguard.
It's funny how a police chief of a major city who has dealt with protests, and has had success with handling things this way disagrees with you.
exactly.
Disagreeing with the views of police is nothing new to me.
Apparently agreeing isn't either. You're not really making a point by saying that.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yes, having that corrupt Ferguson PD out in full riot gear, with perched snipers, and tear gas ready to fucking go, etc... is me making THAT argument. It's immediate escalation from those in power, and it's gonna raise some damn eyebrows.
perfect lol
GoldenEye 007
Member
Used to own an AK-74. A Polish version. Got rid of it a number of years ago, though.
My point is pretty damn clear. A police chief disagreeing with me doesn't nullify my argument.
I'm saying your statement doesn't add anything to the discussion when the basis of your argument was agreeing with police in riot gear.
anyways...
I guess people forget the times when trench coats were banned in schools. Obviously trench coats are not dangerous. But they did / do incite unneeded emotions.
The basis of my argument was not "agreeing with police in riot gear".
That isn't the basis of my argument, but okay?
Don't know if it was posted yet, but pictures of the aftermath have been leaked, and among them show his weapon.
It's now confirmed he was not using an SKS, but an Saiga AK-74 Sporter.
You can tell it's an AK-74 by looking at the magazine, it has the curve for 5.45x39mm ammunition and you can tell it's a Saiga by looking at the characteristic handguard.
The more information comes out about this guy the more he looks like a complete psychopath.
kame-sennin
Member
People like you right U.S. History textbooks.
Right, the cops usually show up and brutalize people.
And btw, when people are out mourning a death by police, it's fucking disrespectful for police to come out wearing "I'm ready to beat your ass" gear.
Why is that frustrating?
Because disbanding the entire police force is not the answer and would lead to total anarchy?
You dug the hole, I just pointed it out.
Body armor without weapons don't "beat asses".
Don't know why his choice of weapon would make him more psychopathic one way or the other.
I'm just mildly curious that he used an AK-74 Sporter, they're not so popular in the U.S these days.
not sure if posted couldnt find the other thread...
this pic is rediculious...
hope that girl is ok...
To be clear, this was not in Dallas -- in Dallas, the police were dressed in their normal every day uniforms. There was no riot gear. After the shooting started, they did bring out tactical gear though.
Not his weapon choice per se, but the post-incident info about him.
Don't know if it was posted yet, but pictures of the aftermath have been leaked, and among them show his weapon.
It's now confirmed he was not using an SKS, but an Saiga AK-74 Sporter.
You can tell it's an AK-74 by looking at the magazine, it has the curve for 5.45x39mm ammunition and you can tell it's a Saiga by looking at the characteristic handguard.
These weapons need to stay on the battlefield. Absolutely no place in modern civilized society.
Shamrock7r
Member
Don't know if it's been posted, but Austin police chief calling out Texas Lt. Governor Dan Patrick for his stupidity.
http://video.statesman.com/Shame-on...cizing-Black-Lives-Matter-protesters-31115675
http://video.statesman.com/Shame-on...cizing-Black-Lives-Matter-protesters-31115675
Iorv3th
Member
What if they show up with "I'm ready to protect your ass" gear?
I don't think any of these cops had riot gear on at all.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I see Kame-senin has ruffled feathers in the thread again >.< In all fairness, what he's saying about race isn't 100% incorrect. Look it up. The whole idea of "Race" and "Racism" is a social construct that white people created by white people to oppress people of colour, be they African, Indian or Native North American.
Again, as I've said earlier in the thread, I don't believe for one second that anyone in their right mind can honestly try and pass off this shooting as a simple racist hate crime, completely ignoring the context of recent events and WHO was actually shot. But I digress. We're going in circles here.
Again, as I've said earlier in the thread, I don't believe for one second that anyone in their right mind can honestly try and pass off this shooting as a simple racist hate crime, completely ignoring the context of recent events and WHO was actually shot. But I digress. We're going in circles here.
Has there ever been a police union that didn't want to increase police militarization or didn't immediately proclaim the innocence of an officer involved in a deadly shooting? I mean, you have some police chiefs that say the right things, but I honestly can't remember the last time a police union said anything that wasn't inflammatory.
The issue with Kame is that he is substituting speculation/assumption/conspiracy as fact and using that to prop up his beliefs(See: his assertion the cops forced the killer to say what he said) and then speaking arrogantly as if his thoughts on a subject are the only possible and correct thoughts to hold. That everyone who disagrees is invalid(See: his criticism of the Dallas PD, his thoughts on protest, the use of racism as a term to describe the killer).
Racism is a term that can be described in very rigid academic ways, that can differ even within those disciplines, but has also a more general term that is accepted and used across the Western world.
In fact the totality of his behavior has often been borderline justifying/legitimizing toward the killer and defending/deflecting for the killer from certain criticisms. At best it is extremely close-minded and misguided at times. Which has made me personally tune him out and was hoping others would as well.
Nobody was using racist as a label to wholly define him. Nobody attempted to handwave him as nothing more than an outlying one-off. That is a strawman target that has been set up to cover the deliberate attempts to redefine racism to fit an anti-establishment agenda, absolving Johnson and giving his actions legitimacy by granting him supposed immunity from being racist. Some seriously dangerous identity politics at play here.
EDIT: mostly by one poster, not you particularly.
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