Not really. You just have clock speed and resolution scale. So you make your game at say 540p for the handheld. When plugged into the dock it outputs at 1080p. Likely with double the clock speed. So im guessing that it wouldn't change much on the Dev side
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Nintendo NX rumored to use Nvidia's Pascal GPU architecture
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Not really. You just have clock speed and resolution scale. So you make your game at say 540p for the handheld. When plugged into the dock it outputs at 1080p. Likely with double the clock speed. So im guessing that it wouldn't change much on the Dev side
No, they just have to render at different resolutions the same game. Which they have to do anyhow unless you think that the handheld has a 1080p screen.
Wii U is 176GFLPS.
If the Pascal Tegra rumours are true it will likely output 400-600GFLPS ( and remember Nvidia Flops > AMD flops) so it will be comfortably more powerful then the Wii U
Indeed. Well, I mean, it would certainly be useful to have a connection "anywhere", considering Nintendo has been betting hard on the social aspects but the extra cost and space for an antenna, modem and SIM slot probably aren't worth it especially since you can use a phone as a router.
What expectations are you talking about here? Most of the thread is filled with decent expectations based on this rumour.
LegendofLex
Member
There was that one time Nintendo specifically said the main divide between handheld and console is that one of them needs to be powered by a battery and the other by a power supply:
But, nah, even though they say advances in tech means this is no longer an issue, that can't be something they're thinking about for NX. This is a device that's FROM NINTENDO, right?
Then why would they bother making a dock at all when they could just put an HDMI-out on the handheld? And there are devices which do that, or at least maintain their full speed better when plugged in.
I want you to take a step back and consider what screen resolution you're expecting, and then why that might be an issue if they don't beef it up in console mode. Do you really see Nintendo wanting to upscale every game they make from 720p, 540p, or even 480p? I think they'll add just enough power while docked to bump up the resolution.
Also, I don't think that you would have seen Sony or MS making games for tow different spec levels a year ago, and look where we'll be come October.
Tegra X2 confirmed instead of TX1?
It's almost certainly a custom chipset designed specifically for the NX. One of the rumors called it the "Tegra N1" but who knows if that's accurate.
But it does use Pascal which the X2 is based on as well.
Things like this:
Tegra X2 confirmed instead of TX1?
And trust me, if in the end I am wrong and NX is revealed to be what you guys are speculating about I will be the happiest of campers.
Show me a device that does what you're saying. Where a GPU is designed to be utilized in a handheld form factor and is operating perfectly within thermal parameters but suddenly doubles it's performance when hooked up to power without overheating.
I think you guys are grasping at straws here.
Because a dock is user-friendly and serves as a charging station and interface with wireless controllers.
Didn't the 3DS come with a cradle?
The Last One
Member
Yeah. Damn right. We are talking about Nintendo here, the most conservative tech-wise company there is in the whole industry
.
The Last One
Member
Edit: sorry, guys. Double post
No one knows. But it seems likely pascal is more powerful and uses less power. Two things Nintendo would be looking for
Edit: Hoodoo. Lots of devices. Turbo boost technology is in basically every PC CPU that's used for gaming.
The Nvidia Shield is getting the most comps, because it has similar functions to what most are speculating the NX will do
Edit2: Hoodoo. you are making some assumptions which seem likely to be false.
1. That the Docked profile isn't the main profile being used. Providing the docked profile stays within heat limits its relatively easy to throttle/down clock into for when a device has to be portable. Like others have said this technology is common in most laptops.
2. When docked the NX could have some form of active cooling that wouldn't be possible when used as a portable because of the power draw.
spazimoose
Member
Developers may not have to do much of anything if its just swapping resolutions. 1080p for TV 720p for handheld mode. The reduced workload should allow for cooler temps and better battery life while on the go.
Almost all modern CPUs have some kind of throttling. Laptops, phones, etc usually have battery saver/power plans that do exactly that. This is definitely within the realm of posibility
LegendofLex
Member
The conservative, low-risk proposition in tech is to just increase the specs, since that's what customers are asking for.
Doing something else is actually risky, not conservative.
So you take one reaction post, without knowing what the reaction is based on and you extrapolate this to "you guys" in a thread in which the discussion was quite level headed?
Not to even mention that you quote a post after yours.
What... they all do. Almost all modern devices throttle down on battery and do not do as much (or at all if heat allows it) on power.
OrbitalBeard
Member
And yet, they're creating the NX.
I don't see how anything Nintendo is doing here is conservative. They're using tech in a completely different way than MS and Sony.
You're probably the guy who never thought Nintendo would utilize motion controls or 3D screens.
Welp, his point flew completely over your head.
I cant wait lol
The Last One
Member
First of all, they aren't targeted for that kind of audience.
Second, they would be limited by USB speeds (the only port) due to the point above. USB speeds are extremely slow for anything pertaining to real-time graphical computations. Modern GPUs require bandwidths of over 200GB/s. USB 3.0, at theoretical max, is 640MB/s.
LegendofLex
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rPxiXXxftE
Unless there's something I'm missing, USB speeds have nothing to do with the clock speeds increasing when connected to a power source.
I have read the whole thread but I am on my phone, it is easier to quote the post just after me. Does not invalidate my original comment.
But anyway, I am not here to argue. I already told you that I wish you guys (omg generalizations! so bad!) are right, I just think it highly unlikely. Your optimism is endearing, though.
I don't know, let's take 3ds. What options did they have after Nvidia didn't deliver?
Now let's look at Wii U. You know what was the most important thing in the decisions regarding Wii U? The power envelope. You know what's the main thing about Pascal? The efficiency and lower power consumption compared to the older architectures from Nvidia. I don't know, Pascal seem like a very Nintendo like solution if it's not too expensive. And we know that the Tegra line from Nvidia is quite cheap. So I don't see any unfounded hopes for this one.
Surely, it might be clocked lower or have fewer SMMs, but worst case scenario you still get a handheld that it's more powerful than Wii U (since a stock X1 can do that already while only drawing 1.5 watts from GPU). A handheld. From Nintendo.
With Gear VR if you have power save mode on while using GEAR, you will get stuttering in the viewer. If its off, then its much smoother, but will tend to get hotter. Not exactly the same thing, but a bit relate-able to the idea.
So, you feel that the more reasonable assumption is that it'll upscale a sub-HD image to 1080p for every single game they make for the next 5 years? You must believe that Nintendo doesn't care in the slightest bit how their games look. Also, the dev kits are air cooled, right? So. what if it's designed such that the dock provides additional cooling to allow the chip to clock up? You're right though, I can't show you an example of this being done. Saying that it can't happen because it hasn't happened is is a fallacy, though.
It would connect with controllers via Bluetooth. It would be cheaper to just make it a charging station and leave the outputs on the device if all it's gonna do is upscale.
Not a single costume I've talked to has asked for that.
Or anything for that matter.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Is that fp32 or fp16?
Examples?
I'm not talking about a laptop with power saver settings here. I'm talking about small, fanless mobile devices with GPU's that double in horsepower once connected to a charging cable or electrical outlet.
I'm not saying it isn't possible. But likely? Yeah no, the more likely scenario is that this is a case of Nintendo dreams at play when confronted with a relatively underpowered console again. Same thing happened with Wii-U.
Oops. I'm getting ahead of myself. I just assumed they meant connecting with a dock with additional RAM, second GPU, etc.
As long as the device can be cooled efficiently, it should be able to be upclocked. There's also the architectural limits of the CPU/GPU and how performance scales with clockspeed.
Your phone.
Also no one is talking about doubling anything, its about changing clockspeeds. Phones do this regularly to be able to maintain heat thresholds during heavy use. Here is an example. If you have a droid you can even bypass some of this... but your phone will overheat and catch fire.
Name one pre-N3DS example of a company using an eyetracking camera to shift a parralax barrier in real time with an autosterescopic screen.
Sometimes Nintendo uses existing technologies to do new things.
Smartphones have power saver modes that reduce the clocks since at least 2014.
I think everyone understands that even in the best case scenario the NX won't match the Xbone. It might come close while docked depending but expectations there seem to be pretty modest and reasonable.
However I think everyone also understands that even in the worst case scenario the graphics will look like nothing we've ever seen on a handheld before.
That's worth getting excited about.
However I think everyone also understands that even in the worst case scenario the graphics will look like nothing we've ever seen on a handheld before.
That's worth getting excited about.
Wise words.
LegendofLex
Member
In case The Last One misses my point behind your sarcasm:
A solid chunk of what Breath of the Wild is doing differently than other recent Zelda games (open world, more focus on combat, less focus on puzzles, tons of weapons and armor options, replace recovery hearts with other items, etc.) is stuff I've been harping on for like five years to the point that my readers told me to shut up and write about something else.
And almost all of those suggestions came from research about what kind of game Zelda was originally billed as when it debuted in 1986/7, what kinds of games came after it, and where the market appetite for games more like the original Zelda is right now.
Oh you don't say? These chips in mobile units have very specific clocks because there are thermal constraints? How do you imagine this NX handheld will vent the heat from doubling it's clocks all of a sudden?
Sure, it's somehow imaginable that Nintendo devised an intricate system to provide for additional cooling in the dock or heatpipes or whatever that facilitates an overclock while docked.
It's possible. But not very likely. It would likely be more trouble than it's worth.
wild wild rice
Member
If GAF's last decade is anything to go by, you know this hype train goes to infinity and beyond.
Now that I think about it, would it be wise to have a game like Breath of the Wild on the go? Even if the NX allows for 5 hours of battery life on continuous play, this game doesn't seen suited for mobile gamers. Most of the popular 3ds games were rpg's, puzzle games, and platformers, games that could be played in short burst. The new Zelda is is an open world adventure whose dungeons will probably consume a lot of players' time based on sheer exploration alone. Like other Gaffers have said in the other threads, either Nintendo is making another dedicated console and having this be their premier handheld device, or this is a halfbaked idea that is short-sided and won't truly florish as a console and is costly as a mobile gaming device.
But...this is just speculation.
But...this is just speculation.
Except the substantiated info (i.e. what EuroGamer has put out) is about 10 times more promising than the Wii U. I didn't even care about the Wii U prior to release because conceptually it sucked. NX appears to be Nintendo combining all their strengths into one system.
But I do agree that the people getting hype about power are just setting themselves up for failure. A portable, handheld PS4 is not going to be in the affordable price range Nintendo is likely targeting. Would love to eat crow on this one but doubt I will.
What does that have to do with the portable being more powerful docked? What is being said is that the difference between battery-powered hardware and power supply powered hardware has been minimized to the point where the architecture between the two can be integrated, and therefore software development between the two teams can also be integrated. There is nothing in what you quoted that discusses or even suggests the idea of additional power for a handheld via a dock.
I haven't read anything from legitimate sources regarding this frequently brought up idea. Can you point me to one?
If you want reliable overclocks, an increase of 100% is not likely, think more like 10-15%.
Also remember that the Shield TV has a fan in it too, so it's entirely possible the dev kits aren't overclocked, just setup to be very reliable, or using off the shelf fans.
Call me pessimistic too then, when dealing with Nintendo, I like to bet on the weaker side.
You quote "specs" of phones, but remember that phones do not run 100% clocks all the time, in fact when in gaming, and other intensive operations, often the GPU clocks are throttled back due to thermal throttling, since the heat generated is too much for passive cooling, not to mention that battery life is hugely affected.
If nintendo is making a dedicated gaming handheld, they would likely want the clocks to remain steady and predictable, so thermal throttling will be avoided. How will they do that? Likely by reducing the maximum clock speeds.
It was speculation that it was overclocked, based on there being a fan. There was never any confirmation. Remember the shield TV also has a fan in it.
Night Angel
Member
Telling people to not expect impossible shit is not concern trolling.
This is concern trolling:
With the recent financial performance of Nintendo and the PoGo crash, there's no way Nintendo can release an affordable and reasonably powerful handheld. Get ready for a portable WiiU at best.
Question: how would a dock cool the components of a closed system?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I don't really care if it's not that powerful though.
Way back when when I first predicted the NX would be a hybrid, I said I just wanted it to be a tad more powerful than the WiiU. Anything above that is gravy for me.
Dark Cloud
Member
The handheld side of the NX is most definitely the side to be excited about. I can understand people being maybe not as excited for the console side with the info we know so far, but I really don't care. I love my Wii U and I know I'll get great looking console type of Nintendo games with the NX. Also, it will get good third party support from Japan atleast.
And Osiris had already said PS4/X1 games can be ported to it by third party devs. I hope it has enough for them in the west to support it.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
People talking about "XB1 performance, maybe" are inevitably going to be disappointed because, as we've seen from practically ever Nintendo hardware speculation/rumor, expectation only go up, not down. By the time this thing is revealed there are going to be people genuinely expecting "docked" performance to be between PS4 and Neo, when realistically it will do well to be 50% of XB1.
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