But it's also being resolve with the pixels from the previous frame. the final frame has ~8294400.
Dejavu
https://mobile.twitter.com/aarongreenberg/status/396066138875912192
But it's also being resolve with the pixels from the previous frame. the final frame has ~8294400.
I think there may be some misconceptions about how scaling works (I am NOT a expect!), but having IE 1440p which is twice+ the information of 1080p, I would seem it probably to see it resulting in a better IQ then 1080p.
I don't seem to remember people advocating 720p Tv's over 1080p Tv's last gen.
From personal experience/experimenting, higher res is almost always better (there are exceptions), even though it does not scale perfectly 1:2, 1: 4, etc.
But it's also being resolve with the pixels from the previous frame. the final frame has ~8294400.
This is silly lol everything that has every been rendered in a video game has been through approximations and tricks.
So if I use UE4 TAA at 4k, I'm rendering 132710400 pixels per frame?But it's also being resolve with the pixels from the previous frame. the final frame has ~8294400.
See above.It depends on the technique. Not all use temporal sampling.
If temporal sampling is being used, it can be argued the final frame has more than ~4m pixels worth of 'unique' valid info contributing, to some greater or lesser extent. How much more is rather dependent on various factors.
Yes. And everything is being called out for being a native technique or not. That's what we have terms like "real time shadows" "pre baked lighting". Because in 3D rendering, there's a distinction between things being done the native or real time way and others achieved with tricks. 4kinda or checkerboard isn't native 4k. Case closed.
Nothing that you posted contradict what I said, I told people from the start that the new PS4 would do 4K using uprendering & I was attacked for it then the papers came out showing just that. You're trying to prove to me that this isn't the same thing as normal 4K doesn't make sense because I never said that but the fact is that when the final buffer is output it's going to be 4K or close to 4K. people claiming that my words are like Greenberg don't make sense either because he was talking about upscaling which has nothing to do with the output buffer.
No.
With the checkerboard technique being discussed here, 4147200 samples are shaded per frame.
You simply have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
You simply have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The "final buffer" is 4k if the Xbox one S upscales a sub-1080p image just as much as it is 4k if my PC downsamples a 6k image to 4k.
The number of pixels in the final buffer is completely irrelevant.
See above.
Are you seriously trying to argue about graphics technology and rendering with Durante? Why?
IThis technique has nothing to do with upscaling.
Is Durante a device or something?
Is Durante a device or something?
You simply have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The "final buffer" is 4k if the Xbox one S upscales a sub-1080p image just as much as it is 4k if my PC downsamples a 6k image to 4k.
The number of pixels in the final buffer is completely irrelevant.
Are you seriously trying to argue about graphics technology and rendering with Durante? Why?
I'm all for clarifying our use of terms, but I think the best way to do that is to move closer to what is actually happening. For example, we can discuss theMaybe we should use the terms internal and external resolution.
Because when you disregard how those final pixels are produced there is no difference between a native image, an upsampled image, a downsampled image, or a temporal reconstruction.How is the number of unique pixels in the final buffer completely irrelevant to the resolution?
I'm all for clarifying our use of terms, but I think the best way to do that is to move closer to what is actually happening. For example, we can discuss the
- Number of samples shaded per frame,
- How they are distributed
- If temporal accumulation happens, and how
- Whether there is a spatial morphological component
Breaking these things down to single numbers and catchphrases just obscures the issue.
Because when you disregard how those final pixels are produced there is no difference between a native image, an upsampled image, a downsampled image, or a temporal reconstruction.
That's the thing I'm not saying that this is the same thing as Immediate 4K & I have explained that over & over again.
That's the thing I'm not saying that this is the same thing as Immediate 4K & I have explained that over & over again.
That's the thing I'm not saying that this is the same thing as Immediate 4K & I have explained that over & over again.
I think they should have went with an enforced 1080p+60fps standard for the Pro. That would have been a nice concrete way to differentiate it from the PS4. Stop trying to make 4k happen, it's not going to happen.yet
Do we know if Sony has stated that if a game is upscaled to 4k, that the game has to run 30fps without drops? I ask because I won't be choosing 4k on any game if games aren't guaranteed to run at 30fps. For the amount of money they are requiring for their new hardware, frame rate performance is just as important as image quality to me.
Technically the game must have at least the same frame-rate of the original PS4.
As you said if frame-rate won't be stable enough at 2160p, you can force 1080p output and you will resolve the issue.
But I think 30fps will be locked in most cases. This is not native 2160p
Will the built-in upscaling on 4k TVs match how the Pro upscales to 4k in any/similar ways?
There were no direct view (non projection) native 720p TVs, they were all 1366x768 or 1024x768. 720p was also relegated to the low end (second rate panels, lack of features) very early on in PS360's life, so they weren't models someone looking for PQ bought or recommended. 1080p was obviously the clear future proof buy.
This is not the case. Upscaling 1080p to 4k means taking 1 square pixel and dividing it perfectly into 4 squares. It just cuts a horizontal and vertical line through. The square keeps its exact square shape.
Now imagine taking 1 square and evenly cutting it into 3 smaller squares. You cant. There has to be some color bleed or nearest neighbor type scaling going on that results in a blurred image.
Impossible to answer as the way a game reach 4K output on the Pro is completely game dependent. There are games already (TESO for example) which will actually render in 4K on the Pro.
How different do you think just upscaling a Pro game with the built-in scaler on a 4k TV look compared to the rendering the game on the Pro in 4k? I apologize is I am being redundant in my question.
Maybe the not the best analogy, but the best I could think of. IE the 720p/1080p (lastgen) vs 1080p/4K (thisgen) Not the same in scaling or "standards", was just trying to get a point across that 1080p handled sub-1080p fine/better then a 720p-"compatible" set would. (And did not hear anything of the sort then)
There is where the "misconception" part kick in. People seems to think it's 1080p or 4K or bust. If scaling was that simple (or that in-advanced) you might be right, there is more going on then just adding one pixel horizontal&vertical. You have to remember, even if it's technically scales "better" from 1080p, is still scaling from a image with twice as less detail as 1440p. That is, even if 1440p scales less "ideal" then 1080p, is still scales from a image with twice the detail.
The exception could be pixel art (as someone mentions earlier), as increasing resolution does not add more detail, unlike 3d rendering.
As said, not an expert, maybe wrong, just using common(?) sense
Your 4K TV upscaling the image is completely different from the checkerboard rendering of the internal framebuffer of the game, or 4K native rendering, or even upscaling of the console done with 4K output support.
They are completely different things, all of them
How different do you think just upscaling a Pro game with the built-in scaler on a 4k TV look compared to the rendering the game on the Pro in 4k? I apologize is I am being redundant in my question.
Then why does 1440p look considerably worse than 1080p on KY 4k?
Anywhere from not different at all (for games which will for some reason render in 1080p and upscale to 4K with simple bicubic or lanczos) to very different (for games which will use some resolution reconstruction tech or actually render in 4K).
That is not true at all unless the upscaled algorithm is better with 1080p than 1440p but I really think it is hard to happen.Then why does 1440p look considerably worse than 1080p on KY 4k?
My experience is quite the opposite. That is 1440p looks considerably better then 1080p on my 4k tv, at least in my personal opinion.
Yeap... it is over than 2x1080p that means over 4.1 million pixels.Also isn't the PS4 natively rendering on games like Horizon/Days Gone a custom resolution somewhere in between 1440p and 2160p? I think Digital Foundry said it was around 1800p?
Thank you. Understood.
These are the types of questions that the average consumer might have. It would be beneficial for Sony to answer all of these types of questions before the PRO is released. If people like myself are somewhat confused, I can't image how the average consumer will view it.
Also isn't the PS4 natively rendering on games like Horizon/Days Gone a custom resolution somewhere in between 1440p and 2160p? I think Digital Foundry said it was around 1800p?
For example, the PS4 Pro 4K upscaler(what happens when you select "4K" in the menu's)alone will provide a notably clearer image than the original PS4 at 1080p output on a 4K television.
Because the original PS4's highest supported output resolution is 1080p, what will happen is the 4K television will attempt to upscale the native 1080p image to its $K pixel ratio. But PS4, since the only supported output is 1080p, the image will automatically be downsized again to the 1080p resolution.
Scaling the game twice will introduce a lot of detail lost, and scaling artifacts, than if you simply scaled the image once, from the original 1080p image to the 4K output of the screen. Your taking away one an entire scaling step.
That 2nd scaling doesn't make sense to me, like why.
Because the output of the PS4 is 1080p. There is no 4K output on game consoles prior to Xbox One S. The TV has to recognize that the console is properly scaling with the TV, or else it will further use the console's internal scaler to downscale a second time.
I still don't even
Okay so we have a PS4 and a 4k tv.
The ps4 outputs 1080p, my tv upscales it once to 4k.
Where is this scenario is this 2nd scale happening?
I still don't even
Okay so we have a PS4 and a 4k tv.
The ps4 outputs 1080p, my tv upscales it once to 4k.
Where is this scenario is this 2nd scale happening?