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[darkace]

Posing the same question I've asked everyone with few responses: are you educating people?

Yes. And I'm an active member of my local political area. I actually do fight for the things I believe in. I have to make do with people in my party with wildly different viewpoints than my own. There are hugely misogynistic and xenophobic members of the party, but I put up with them so I can help implement policy that helps all sides, including minorities and women.

Doing the right thing is never black and white, and this extremist view that permeates GAF is utterly ridiculous.

 

[ISOM]

One of my co workers posted this today

Obama didn't campaign on hate or bigotry. A whole lot of people will never accept a Trump presidency. And then a lot of these people didn't accept Obama either or do we forget the damn Tea party. I don't even know how people can be this obtuse and hypocritical.

 

[capitalCORN]

That's not what I said.
Nobody is saying that any of these people vote for Clinton if you talk to them "nicely". I'm saying that the Democrats dismissed them, insulted them and blamed them for everything and ignored that some of them are not bad people. Some of them are afraid, some of them want Trump because they buy into certain aspects. Others are only learning from vetted information.
The Democrats have failed these people. They way your party wins new voters is to show them through example. You propose being an extremist and insulting them and reducing them to nothing is somehow productive.
I blame your line of thinking for causing such level of dismay. Regressive left talking points have gotten so toxic since 2012, and alt-right as a counter-movement arises to fight that this frontier and then it all turns to shit.
You don't even have to talk to them nicely or interact with them. But when you act like they are all evil racists and bigots you're playing Hillary into further polarization by being a warrior and help breed hatred for the connotation of democrats for these people. Their connotation with democrats and progressives is being shouted at, insulted and judged and so they respond with hatred.
Read the Smug Liberalism article. And Michael Moores anecdotes and predictions. This is real. People vote emotionally and their anger at liberals is increased by our lack of winning them over through example. When we could have come up with examples, illustrations and informations that tried and sneak facts in through the backdoor, we decided to call them neo-nazis.

I get the sense that you want a carte blanch to act out. I say it's bullshit. NeoGAF was one of the most infamous strongholds for Hillary online- GAF topped Hillary meme searches on Google. Let's be real. We've not done a good job to invoking discussion or being critical of Hillary. We've not been good at taking a hard enough look at our own media outlets or trying to entertain how it feels like being a poor pissed off white. We've mocked, insulted and treated them like shit, because Trumps base have treated so many minorities like shit. By doing so we played ourselves because Trump runs on bed of nails principles and walk past it to something else. Meanwhile Democrats get stuck seeming like the party for minorities, women and LGBT and not men, and Trump masterfully used this through divide and conquer.

What is more, we've downplayed anyone who have alternative ideas and talked about them with toxicity and contemt and shaming. Regardless if it was third party voters, or bernie voters, or protest voters, or trump voters.
So you're wrong when you say that I or anyone else is proclaiming that talking nice to a Trump supporter makes them switch over. But you don't have to make the problem worse.

Erm, the right famously plays the left as the enemy, to a fault even. The fact that people are calling those who voted for a demagogue anything less than deplorable would be the real worry.

 

[GamerJM]

I'll quote myself from the other thread.



Unfortunately the Southern Strategy (that so many are trying to downplay which is mindboggling) is too ingrained within not only rural America but the very fabric of America despite only being introduced in the 60s. It's going to be damn near impossible to divorce appeal to rural America and deject the southern strategy. These are people who generation after generation have been told that the others are the reason for their current state of being and they've taught their kids that, and they've shaped their local and state government around that idea. It's at the point where I don't feel you can truly appeal to them without said strategy.

People in this thread and others are trying their best to divorce the two but you can't. Example, for decades they've been told overtly and covertly that the main reason their jobs are gone is because illegal mexicans are taking them. This has been fed to them so much that many of them ask time and time again "what are you going to do about the Mexican problem". Enter the idea of deportation and building a wall; this is how the Southern Strategy works. Frame the issue as "Us vs Them" and you can convince people to vote for you if you promise to fix the issue by removing the "them" instead of actually fixing the "us".

And that's the thing, emotional responses will always beat out factual/logical responses. Hillary/Bernie/Obama have all spoken on the reality that those factory jobs aren't coming back and we need to look into getting new businesses into the area or something else. This isn't what people want to hear despite it being the truth. Trump promises he can bring their jobs back in part by getting rid of the Mexicans, and by penalizing the Chinese. This resonates with them. He promises he can/will cut social welfare spending despite the fact they use it because for decades, they've been told that the "others" are a drain on the system because they're on social welfare but rural America isn't like the "others" because why they might be on social welfare too; if they work hard they'll be millionaires and well off and that they don't need it for that long (and again statistics show that rural America stay on social welfare just as long as the "others").

So how do you appeal to them outside of flat out lying to them and telling them their jobs will come back? How exactly do you tell them that their economic woes actually aren't the "others" fault at all? How do you tell them that many of their issues can actually be directly blamed on conservative measures when they themselves believe in these measures so passionately?

How do you convince them that they and the "others" that they've been pitted against for 50+ years are actually exactly alike? A few speeches and explanations does not break down the demonization of the "others".

Suggesting "compromise" suggests that the democratic party hasn't been doing that for the last 50+ years since the parties switched. On the world stage the democratic party is pretty right winged and that's exactly because they compromise. Anyone suggesting that the democratic party hasn't compromised to appeal to these people are inherently suggesting that this same party has only been about appealing to minorities at the expense of rural America, and that is just completely not true. The democratic party has basically always been seen by any and everyone as the party of compromise and "reaching across the isle" so I take offense with people who state that the democratic party doesn't do that, and that minorities within that party need to compromise with rural America, when minorities entire life in this country has always been one about compromising.

This is a really fantastic post, and maybe the best I've seen on the issue yet. It really makes me worried, though, because the more I think about it the more it seems impossible to get the Trump-voting Midwest back. Which just leads me to believe that we could very well be seeing an America where Dems lose power in the long-term.

 

[Monocle]

I love how actually people's live are facing real detriment, and the 'voice of reason' is to simply 'chill'.

I really think minorities should just simmer down and try to understand their oppressors better.

"Get out of my country nigger!"

"Tell me more, good sir. "

 

[faisal233]

Have you ever talked about race

Bruh, we didn't need those 6 million missing voters to talk about race. We just needed them to vote so we could advance our agenda of racial justice.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Truly and honest-to-god. Has someone in here in the last 2-3 pages called anyone a racist who supports Trump? Not being dense, but I keep seeing claims of calling all his supporters racist, but not sure I've seen that happen in here.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Nobody is telling any POC or LGBT or Women that they should tolerate anything . What people actually have been saying in large numbers is that we as a community and the liberal community in general have to do some soul searching if this condemnation of everyone who is not pro-Hillary are racists bigots. It cost Hillary the election. She lost because Liberals pissed off these moderates too much, and it became about these disenfranchised voters feeling prosecuted and in the end they decide voting for Trump, even though he is the most unlikeable candidate in history.
You're asking for blessings to continue a one-way singular path forward. Insult everyone who is not with Yas Queen. Throw the slurs, throw the insults. Continue the contemnation and make NeoGaf a place where we only talk politics in a left leaning echo chamber.
Donald Trump has totally taken advantage of a classic divide and conquer strategy and democrats have completely played into it. Hillarys base (and also GAF collectively) have made people feel unfriendly for having any sort of alternative opinion. You're third? party bigot. support trump? racist and a bigot. dislike Hillary? you're a stooge of russian propaganda. Sanders supporter? purity based low information asshole.
In it's own way Hillarys base have pissed off so many people and probably hurt her chances, just like extreme Bernie Bros did for Bernie.

To reflect on that the current manner of engaging the opposition despite how misguided their views is, is not how you win the election. The echo chamber was that Hillary was gonna win in a landslide. once her gloves would come off she would make trrump fall of a cliff after the first debate. This strategy has completely failed, and I am personally tired of zero summing the idea that trying to win over the moderates and independents with anything other than going regressive left constitutes that one believes that LGBT or POC or women should be fine with opression.
The damage has been done. Let's not double down and honestly think, at the current stage that this can be won. Like others have said I too believe that right-wing will sweep Europe further right in 2017. This is the cost of a slow recovery and stagnant culture. Facism was born when socialism failed, and regression and conservatism always spew up at every economic recession. It's like clockwork.
We all need to realize that accept that the war is not won without them. So don't tell anyone here that invoking a civil rights leaders from the 60s is somehow magically going to prove that continuing on this trajectory is the best way toward.

Democrats need to work for these rustbelt voters. If Trump fails on all his promises, dems have to put in the work to bring new jobs and re-education back. Instead of insulting them, they need to be shown through example that they can change. These rust belt poor whites are not the same republicans who gridlock everything in congress. they hated jeb like they hate clinton. they only want Trump because he would burn everything down. We know its why him and Sanders did well.
So let us not lose focus of that.
Wanting to change strategy and being upset, frustrated and angry at how we as liberals have handled this- both with brexit and this election is not the same as saying that anybody should put up with abuse. But ask yourself how you win. Ask yourself if the strategy of insulting these voters did Clinton any favors. She would have been in the white house if she had gotten those 3 states.

The popular vote doesn't matter. And had Trump won the popular vote and Clinton the electoral vote, everyone here who would have yelled that as well. We know the score and this have been a disaster. Clinton had so many advantages, resources and help and money and it was a landslide. The strategy was all fucked and a new strategy is needed.

Oh thank you for this post. I voted for Clinton and now I'm so, so fucked. My generation is fucked. Even less of them will come out next time. Sigh.

 

[Phased]

Yes sir/mame. Black.

I'm willing to just take an L if all these people coming out really wanna blame the anger at America drinking that racism koolaid over people's actual humanity. I can take comfort in knowing it really is all about appealing to the white voter if that is what they want.

But just come out and say it instead of this fair and balanced shit. "Oh they arent all racist, they just said we'll ignore all the racism cause he said X, Y, Z" like that is some better stance. Joke.

Without a doubt we have a huge racism problem in this country, institutional or otherwise. Is it despicable people voted for Trump? It absolutely is.

That's not why he won though. He won because Democrats didn't show up due to what seems like a variety of reasons, not the least of which the candidate we chose.

I haven't seen anybody trying to marginalize racism here. It's an obvious problem in the country but it hasn't gotten any worse in the last 48 hours. If you get a Democratic candidate that people are inspired and excited by, they go back to being the party not in power.

You risk losing sight of the forest from the trees if you just write everything off as racists voting against minorities. A whole host of issues contributed to this (low turnout) win for Trump. Let's fix that and work on the Democratic party so we get some exciting people in there again.

If we ran another Obama who is charismatic as fuck and gives rockstar speeches, this election wouldn't have even been close.

 

[Feel the Swift]

I'm never gonna tolerate racism, sexism, and xenophobia, or the tolerance and apathy towards it, as just a different viewpoint. And i'm not gonna apologize for that. And I sure as hell am not gonna peacefully allow Trump supporters and moderates pat themselves on the back at my expense.

Exactly how I feel. What else needs to be said other than it's wrong? If you still feel this way towards people after the campaign was all about it then you are hopeless.

Those who voted for trump may not be any of those things, but they sure as hell elected someone who believes in such hateful thoughts. Last time i checked there's only one bubble to fill in on your ballot. You dont get to pick and vote only the things you like about a candidate. Sure, to pick the best one based on your wants and needs you have to make compromises. And the fact that enough people were willing to sacrifice basic human rights for other races and normalize racism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc to pick Trump will boggle my mind forever.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

This is the problem, everyone on here is saying that a vote for Trump is a vote for white supremacy and you are evil to vote for Trump and says it is whites fault for him being elected, but look at his numbers.

8% and 30% of the people in groups that he put down STILL voted for him. They are either masochists, or you have to realize that voters don't take on all the baggage of people they vote for.

You can continue to be mad at white voters that voted for Trump, but labeling them all as White Supremacists isn't going to win any over to the Dems side. You have to realize that Trump voters are more than just people that hate minorities and see what else is in that group and get them.

There's always going to be minorities who bought into the American Dream and are labouring under the misapprehension that they might be accepted by white America at large. (I say America but it's the same self harming bullshit here in the UK).

I was watching the BBC live election coverage last night and they interviewed some guy leading a group called Muslims for Trump. Here is a Pakistani immigrant, campaigning for Trump and justifying his anti-Muslim rhetoric by saying "Oh he's not talking about me, he's only going to ban the troublemakers".

Sure dude, David Duke and his KKK boys are totally going to look past the brown face, funny sounding name and thick accent because you say you're not a "troublemaker".

Just because some minorities or some women are stupid enough to vote for Trump doesn't mean that Trump voters aren't either racists or they're OK with white supremacists. In either case they can get fucked.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Erm, the right famously plays the left as the enemy, to a fault even. The fact that people are calling those who voted for a demagogue anything less than deplorable would be the real worry.

I sincerely cannot and will not entertain the narrative that people didn't vote because their feelings were hurt via the agressive bigotry being called out front and center.

 

[Hierophant]

i posted this before in another thread but seriously i feel like it resonates deeply right now

"Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?
They are the same ones who wanted to have Muhammad Ali locked up for refusing to kill gooks. They speak for all that is cruel and stupid and vicious in the American character. They are the racists and hate mongers among us—they are the Ku Klux Klan. I piss down the throats of these Nazis.
And I am too old to worry about whether they like it or not. Fuck them.”
- Hunter S. Thompson

 

[superbeau]

Well yeah, as I said generally unconcerned with bigotry unless directed at them.

That's fine, I'm not going to tell you to cut her off or whatever, as long as you aren't telling me or any other minority that we're overreacting.

I'm definitely not. My posts in this thread have been along the lines of "I think calling all trump voters racist is wrong, but for moderates to say to tolerate racism is wrong too"

Minorities in America are constantly and repeatedly asked to be patient and wait for the white majority to accept and welcome them. Apparently many liberals are still A-ok with telling them to do that if it means we can elect Clinton. There's a point to be made there. Be silent to get progress inch by inch, but for liberals to ask that of Americans of color anymore is repugnant.

 

[faisal233]

ITT obsession with Trump voters.

No worries about our missing voters. They are all racists for not voting /s

 

[entremet]

The Idealists versus The Pragmatists basically.

No one is telling minorities to tolerate bigotry.

Clinton and Democratic friendly critics are only saying to field a better candidate and use better tactics. Because if we don't we have let down the most vulnerable.

Why can't we get this simple message?

We let down minorities by using boneheaded strategies and propping an unlikable technocrat.

Play to win. Because if we don't now the most underrepresented are affected.

 

[Beefy]

One of my co workers posted this today

I got called a racist bigot by a few Trump supporters for saying being a white straight guy in America is easier then being a minority or LGBTQIA+. Some of the shit being said is crazy.

 

[Crossing Eden]

The Idealists versus The Pragmatists basically.

No one is telling minorities to tolerate bigotry.

Clinton and Democratic friendly critics are only saying to field a better candidate and use better tactics. Because if we don't we have let down the most vulnerable.

Why can't we get this simple message?

We let down minorities but using boneheaded strategies and propping an unlikable technocrat.

Stop saying that no one told minorities to tolerate bigotry, YES the fuck they did, all day, on GAF, on facebook, on twitter, everywhere on social media there are a ton of shitheels telling minorities that they should calm down and stop overreacting and wait it out.

 

[Breads]

As a minority I am guessing who have a clear cut vision on what it's like to be stereotyped and unfairly targeted. So why do it to others? Rural America was left behind. Trump's language on the trail fucking sucked (racist, misogynistic, etc). But his message to rural America was simply "your situation sucks. Establishment Washington did this to you. Let's go kick them out and make your life better." They aren't bigots and racists voting for a bigot and racist. They are people down on their luck, out of work, and being told by a man "I give a shit about you and want to help you". No one else came to them, so in his infamous rally words "what have you got to lose?"

As others here have pointed out. They didn't vote for him because of his flaws. They voted in spite of them. Not recognizing that and just calling them blanket racist is practically the same thing. These are people left behind just the same. And trust me, in metro America (aka cities) they don't exactly feel that privilege.

Strawmanning the fuck out of me if you think that when I said "criticism" I actually meant "unfairly stereotyping people with blanket claims of racism".

 

[Psychoward]

The Idealists versus The Pragmatists basically.

No one is telling minorities to tolerate bigotry.

Clinton and Democratic friendly critics are only saying to field a better candidate and use better tactics. Because if we don't we have let down the most vulnerable.

Why can't we get this simple message?

We let down minorities by using boneheaded strategies and propping an unlikable technocrat.

Play to win. Because if we don't now the most underrepresented are affected.

yes they are

 

[Puck Beaverton]

i posted this before in another thread but seriously i feel like it resonates deeply right now

yeah he was smarter than all of us

 

[entremet]

Stop saying that no one told minorities to tolerate bigotry, YES the fuck they did, all day, on GAF, on facebook, on twitter, everywhere on social media there are a ton of shitheels telling minorities that they should calm down and stop overreacting and wait it out.

yes they are

Here? Where?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Yes. And I'm an active member of my local political area. I actually do fight for the things I believe in. I have to make do with people in my party with wildly different viewpoints than my own. There are hugely misogynistic and xenophobic members of the party, but I put up with them so I can help implement policy that helps all sides, including minorities and women.

cool.

Here? Where?

The threads are long so I don't doubt you've missed them, but

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1310702

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1310841

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1310907

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Angelus wins again.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

The Idealists versus The Pragmatists basically.

No one is telling minorities to tolerate bigotry.

Clinton and Democratic friendly critics are only saying to field a better candidate and use better tactics. Because if we don't we have let down the most vulnerable.

Why can't we get this simple message?

We let down minorities but using boneheaded strategies and propping an unlikable technocrat.

Play to win.

No? Just telling minorities that we should use nicer language to bigots lest we hurt their feelings.

It's ok guys, you've been alienated, disenfranchised and told you ain't shit for generations upon generations. Can you pipe down and deal with it for another century or so because these poor white folks over here aren't as familiar with being treated like the dregs of society as you are so can we try and be a bit nicer to them?

 

[Enzom21]

The Idealists versus The Pragmatists basically.

No one is telling minorities to tolerate bigotry.

Clinton and Democratic friendly critics are only saying to field a better candidate and use better tactics. Because if we don't we have let down the most vulnerable.

Why can't we get this simple message?

We let down minorities but using boneheaded strategies and propping an unlikable technocrat.

Play to win.

No, they are telling us to educate them, offer a fucking olive branch or see their point of view.
None of that should be done by minorities. That responsibility falls on the shoulders of other white people.
They are the ones who have the best chance of changing the minds of bigots.

 

[capitalCORN]

The Idealists versus The Pragmatists basically.

No one is telling minorities to tolerate bigotry.

Clinton and Democratic friendly critics are only saying to field a better candidate and use better tactics. Because if we don't we have let down the most vulnerable.

Why can't we get this simple message?

We let down minorities by using boneheaded strategies and propping an unlikable technocrat.

Play to win. Because if we don't now the most underrepresented are affected.

Stop saying that Trump didn't win, Clinton lost. Both parties voted last night. You can convolute the popular vote, the electoral college all you want. But the fact remains that a significant portion made the effort to vote for Trump.

 

[borghe]

ITT obsession with Trump voters.

No worries about our missing voters. They are all racists for not voting /s

Exactly. Trump didn't win. The DNC lost. More accurately shit the bed. That is a major distinction and until people start acknowledging that, we're fucked.

We didn't lose because a bunch of people voted for a racist (1m fewer than voted for the last much more subtle racist). We lost because ~6m people who voted for Obama couldn't stand the thought or have enough care to vote at all. WI (my state) hasn't voted GOP for president since the great Reagan red out of 84. Yet here we are amid record low voter turn out handing the state to Trump.

Rural America didn't do that. They just showed up at the polls every two years like they always do.

Strawmanning the fuck out of me if you think that when I said "criticism" I actually meant "unfairly stereotyping people with blanket claims of racism".

Ok, my statement was probably unfair but my point remains. You have two choices in this country and unless your ideals line up squarely you are almost always going to have to sacrifice one value for another when voting. Is it so impossible to believe that someone might be willing to grit their teeth and bare uncomfortable or even gross language under the promise of someone actually giving a shit about their misfortune?

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Exactly. Trump didn't win. The DNC lost. More accurately shit the bed. That is a major distinction and until people start acknowledging that, we're fucked.

We didn't lose because a bunch of people voted for a racist (1m fewer than voted for the last much more subtle racist). We lost because ~6m people who voted for Obama couldn't stand the thought or have enough care to vote at all. WI (my state) hasn't voted GOP for president since the great Reagan red out of 84. Yet here we are amid record low voter turn out handing the state to Trump.

Rural America didn't do that. They just showed up at the polls every two years like they always do.

Damn

Fucking

Skippy

 

[marrec]

I'm probably one of those people this thread is meant to lambaste, as I've been calling for quite a long time for more understanding of a certain voting block. But I feel like I need to make a distinction here.

I personally am not calling for tolerance of sexism, xenophobia, or racism. I wouldn't describe myself as a moderate. There is a fundamental lack of understanding that I think we can clear up.

Specifically, fuck racists, sexists, and bigots. Fuck any Trump voter who is a racist, sexist or bigot. A lot of them probably are, cause America is a deeply bigoted country that has been built on pillars of sexism, racism, and white supremacy. There is no doubt that Trump road a wave of white nationalism to power and that a large part of his voters cast their ballots specifically because they think he will "make america great again" by moving America backwards by a century or so. To claim that bigots don't exist in America or that racism is dead is either grossly ignorant or insidiously racist.

But to simply write off 50 million American voters as racist, sexist, or bigoted, is logically insane. There are probably all kinds of opinions within that group, people who ARE economically downtrodden and desperate, people who're indoctrinated in the hatred of Clinton, people who are just fucking dumb as all hell, selfish, low-information, etc. If we want anything like a path forward for American democracy and for the progressive movement as a whole, it would be best if we did not indefinitely alienate half of the voting population in our anger and fear at a white nationalist president.

If the liberals don't want them (or actively ignore them), they only have one other place to go, and that's the party of regressive bigotry.

None of this matters tonight, because a lot of people are righteously afraid and angry. A Trump presidency means actual tangible harm to minorities living in America and GOP control means we may be dealing with the consequences of this election for decades to come in the form of SCOTUS Judges and continued efforts at voter disenfranchisement. But in the coming months we gotta start gearing up for the midterms and we gotta figure out how to get people out there voting for a future free from the white supremacy that permeates our nation. We obviously can't do that by trusting every Progressive in America to get off their lazy asses and vote, a large swath of them abandoned this country because they're unreliable, so for the next few years we gotta expand the base and there is a disenfranchised block of white voters that will gladly join us in the future if only we can promise (and deliver) one in which they're a welcome part.

When the GOP lost in 2012 their post-mortem revealed the fundamental problems with the party... they largely ignored that and as such elected a bloviating orange shit of a man to POTUS. When the post-mortem of this loss is done, we'll need to take a lot of shit a lot more seriously if we want to look anything like a progressive, liberal party in the future.

In the mean time, fuck racists and sexists and bigots. White liberals and moderates need to do more now than they ever have to support our minority population and move forward with what progress we can make in these dark times.

 

[Odrion]

the "future of the black lives matter movement" thread is a real fuckin' bummer

 

[Vincent Alexander]

the "future of the black lives matter movement" is a real fuckin' bummer

I'm rooting for them more than ever now

 

[darkwing]

quoting someone

lol are you serious:

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/09/donald-trump-pledges-sign-anti-lgbtq-first-amendment-defense-act/

legalize discrimination, so just grin and bear it?

 

[freethoughtbubble]

I've never witnessed an aspersion on right wing ideology in person, but I've seen many racially and sexually motivated attacks in my lifetime. If you want to argue candidates, call obstruction all you want, but Bernie never had the numbers, hence 'Bernie math'. The fact that Clinton ran a largely centrist platform, one specifically to appeal moderates, and still lost, tells everything.

I'm arguing candidates, yes. I don't know where people are getting this "educate the other side" bullshit strawman. What I've seen today is an outcrying from folks who supported Bernie or did not love Hillary, who nonetheless bit the bullet and supported her because they knew the alternative was that much worse, because they saw the warning signs and were shouted down and condescended at every fucking turn. You say Bernie couldn't have won. Who knows for sure? You know what I know? Hillary lost states in the general that Sanders won in the primaries. Sanders spoke to disaffected whites in the Rust Belt while Hillary took their support for granted; and he did so while still championing the causes of minorities.

Hillary was demolished last night by the only metric that truly matters: electoral votes. People tried to tell you then why this might happen, and people called them naive, bigots, uncle toms. They attacked them viciously for not towing the line. People are trying to tell you now why it actually did happen, and people are pulling the same garbage in this thread. Enough. Learn already.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

I just don't get it. You guys just lost the fucking election to cheeto hitler and rather than introspect about what drove this you decide to call literally everyone that voted for him a racist and a terrible person and circlejerk about how morally superior the Clinton platform was. I can't think of a dumber, more meaningless response.

This is why people hate liberals.

It truly is baffling. That kind of attitude will continue to get people like Trump elected. And the cycle will continue. Screaming at someone you don't agree with will NEVER get them to consider your point of view. AND ESPECIALLY when you scream that they are racist, sexist etc etc.

The world is not black and white. Just because someone voted against you does not make them human garbage. But if you continue to call them that, then they will forever vote against you.

 

[entremet]

Stop saying that Trump didn't win, Clinton lost. Both parties voted last night. You can convolute the popular vote, the electoral college all you want. But the fact remains that a significant portion made the effort to vote for Trump.

If HRC carried the amount of voters Romney did she would've won. She didn't even hit that mark.

That's on Clinton's poor showing.

 

[Phased]

No, they are telling us to educate them, offer a fucking olive branch or see their point of view.
None of that should be done by minorities. That responsibility falls on the shoulders of other white people.
They are the ones who have the best chance of changing the minds of bigots.

I haven't seen anybody say you should tolerate racism. Nobody should tolerate it. For me personally all I've said is we need to examine WHY we lost beyond just "racists did it". That starts and ends with the DNC and the candidate they chose.

By all means continue calling out racist shitheads, but we also need to look at why our turnout was so low. If we had an Obama level turnout (or even semi close to it) then it would have easily outnumbered the people who voted for Trump.

 

[darkace]

cool.

Isn't it just? It's almost as if me and everyone else who have been saying the same thing aren't doing it because we hate minorities but because we want to build a movement capable of implementing policy for the better.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

No, they are telling us to educate them, offer a fucking olive branch or see their point of view.
None of that should be done by minorities. That responsibility falls on the shoulders of other white people.
They are the ones who have the best chance of changing the minds of bigots.

Nah bruv, Muslims need to publicly speak out against every act of terrorism across the entire fucking globe AND sit down and educate white people who hate everything about them and wouldn't bat an eyelid if they were all rounded up and shipped off to black sites to be waterboarded.

The onus is on black leaders to focus on inner city violence as well as being nice to farmers in the midwest who don't give a fuck that institutional racism in the police force means that innocent black people die every goddamn day by the very people who are meant to protect them.

Why won't we think of the racists?

It truly is baffling. That kind of attitude will continue to get people like Trump elected. And the cycle will continue. Screaming at someone you don't agree with will NEVER get them to consider your point of view. AND ESPECIALLY when you scream that they are racist, sexist etc etc.

The world is not black and white. Just because someone voted against you does not make them human garbage. But if you continue to call them that, then they will forever vote against you.

Yep, America has spoken and it's white.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I watched that the night it aired and I think that there's something not being understood here. That little girl is just repeating what she's been imbued with in her environment. It's sad and yeah, it shouldn't happen. I very much doubt that the die is cast for her and she will just grow up to be a racist.

It's an interesting clip to point to though because what that girl needs is someone to explain racism and why it is a problem to her. She's not hateful, she's ignorant.

It used to be that people owned slaves. They were bought and sold as property. A war was fought over that concept that divided America. You won't convince me that 10% of people would fight for slavery's existence now. That's progress.

There used to be a time that interracial couples weren't just discouraged but illegal. Now there may be some backlash to it but it isn't as uncommon anymore. That's progress.

There exists racism and it will, unfortunately, exist for a long time still but I believe the trend in the US is that of a positive one. It doesn't negate the bad that happens today and by all means fight that as hard as you can but little by little progress will in.

And I agree, but policies would help to educate those people. Under Trump, we will not have those policies.

We'll have the progress. But it's going to take longer. Something that should be taken in account when people elect their leaders. Progress is incremental or doesn't happen. All those landmark achievements that occur throughout history didn't happen in a flash. The New Deal was not done with a single executive decision and actually took a crisis for the political will to be accumulated.

This isn't really aimed at you, I'm just talking in general.

 

[capitalCORN]

I'm arguing candidates, yes. I don't know where people are getting this "educate the other side" bullshit strawman. What I've seen today is an outcrying from folks who supported Bernie or did not love Hillary, who nonetheless bit the bullet and supported her because they knew the alternative was that much worse, because they saw the warning signs and were shouted down and condescended at every fucking turn. You say Bernie couldn't have won. Who knows for sure? You know what I know? Hillary lost states in the general that Sanders won in the primaries. Sanders spoke to disaffected whites in the Rust Belt while Hillary took their support for granted; and he did so while still championing the causes of minorities.

Hillary was demolished last night by the only metric that truly matters: electoral votes. People tried to tell you then why this might happen, and people called them naive, bigots, uncle toms. They attacked them viciously for not towing the line. People are trying to tell you now why it actually did happen, and people are pulling the same garbage in this thread. Enough. Learn already.

Well let me make this clear. If you're sitting idly, mumbling umms and ahhs, while a walking, talking, literally living in this century fascist demagogue runs for president, I don't think much patience needs to be applied.

If HRC carried the amount of voters Romney did she would've won. She didn't even hit that mark.

That's on Clinton's poor showing.

This isn't some two lane fight. They're both fighting for the same middle. Her efforts didn't exist in a vacuum.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Isn't it just? It's almost as if me and everyone else who have been saying the same thing aren't doing it because we hate minorities but because we want to build a movement capable of implementing policy for the better.

You're the first person who's actually answered me back

 

[faisal233]

Nah bruv, Muslims need to publicly speak out against every act of terrorism across the entire fucking globe AND sit down and educate white people who hate everything about them and wouldn't bat an eyelid if they were all rounded up and shipped off to black sites to be waterboarded.

The onus is on black leaders to focus on inner city violence as well as being nice to farmers in the midwest who don't give a fuck that institutional racism in the police force means that innocent black people die every goddamn day by the very people who are meant to protect them.

Why won't we think of the racists?



Yep, America has spoken and it's white.

ZERO campaign stops at Wisconsin and we lost by 20k vote.

WI 2016 - WI 2012 = Difference
GOP: 1409467 - 1,407,966 = +1501
DEM: 1382210 - 1,620,985 = -238775

Facts don't support your strawman

 

[entremet]

This isn't some two lane fight. They're both fighting for the same middle. Her efforts didn't exist in a vacuum.

And it was very competitive, but why did DNC go with such garbage candidate if that was the case?

I'm not blaming any voter. I'm putting the sole blame on the DNC and their terrible political strategy.

 

[Enzom21]

I haven't seen anybody say you should tolerate racism. Nobody should tolerate it. For me personally all I've said is we need to examine WHY we lost beyond just "racists did it". That starts and ends with the DNC and the candidate they chose.

By all means continue calling out racist shitheads, but we also need to look at why our turnout was so low. If we had an Obama level turnout (or even semi close to it) then it would have easily outnumbered the people who voted for Trump.

Did you even read what I wrote? I don't think you did.
Give it one more go.

 

[marrec]

And it was very competitive, but why did DNC go with such garbage candidate?

I'm not blaming any voter. I'm putting the sole blame on the DNC and their terrible political strategy.

Cause she won the primary and is a highly qualified candidate.

She's also just really unlikable. A quality that shouldn't fucking matter when she's clearly a born leader ready to get shit done, but American Liberals are fickle fucks.

 

[bishoptl]

Oh fuck off with your boogeyman bullshit. I see motherfuckers almost every damn day in the OT who shit on white people all day and all night long and nothing comes of it but God forbid people don't kowtow to the Liberal echo chamber on these forums, they get banned by Bishoptl with a quickness. Let's be honest here, the mods and one in particular are quite okay with racism towards white people on these forums unless people complain heavily about it. The OT has literally turned into a one sided discussion about how white people are the blame for all of societies problems and i blame Evilore for letting it happen.

man, that sucked

 

[cheezcake]

Cause she won the primary and is a highly qualified candidate.

She's also just really unlikable. A quality that shouldn't fucking matter when she's clearly a born leader ready to get shit done, but American Liberals are fickle fucks.

Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure likeability is a fairly important metric for a leader of people

 

[Fergie]

It must be hard to realise that there is a underbelly of bubbling racism prevalent in your country. Rather deflect to something else.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

ZERO campaign stops at Wisconsin and we lost by 20k vote.

WI 2016 - WI 2012 = Difference
GOP: 1409467 - 1,407,966 = +1501
DEM: 1382210 - 1,620,985 = -238775

Facts don't support your strawman

"She didn't campaign in my state so I'm going to vote for the xenophobic, racist, Islamophobic, race-baiting, lying, cheating sexual predator to be president"

Makes perfect sense.