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[LordKasual]

I read through every line of dialogue in FFXIV all the way up to the end of ARR (with Japanese voices on for cutscenes). Story was decent, dialogue was terrible. It came off as pretentious as it does this game, and every voiced cutscene was a blessing because I could hear the original, more straightforward script.

So it's not everyone.

Seems to be a love it or hate it affair.

There is no such thing as an "Original" FFXIV script. The ENG and JP translations are developed alongside one another. The localization team has even confirmed that some of it is done in English first and then translated into Japanese. And this was likely a very common scenario from Heavensward onward.

The problem here isn't "pretentiousness". It's you preferring a more "straightforward script". The Ivalice series and XIV was not written to cater to people who require straightforwardness to appreciate its content. And XIV continuously makes that very obvious.


Just about the only characters with a dialect so foreign that it's difficult to understand are Urianger and Midgardsormr. And that makes perfect sense with those two.

 

[badcrumble]

"Worrying will purchase nothing from me," instead of "Your worry will find no purchase with me."

Technically this would have a different meaning - "no purchase with me" is where 'purchase' means grip or traction, not a monetary transaction for goods

 

[BurritoBushido]

Never played the original, but I enjoy WOTL's localization

 

[GuardianE]

I don't find any of the examples in the OP particularly troubling.

 

["D"]

I kinda agree with OP. I get that the new translation is going for a more authentic feel for the era and time where people spoke like that, but having playing the original Engrish/mistranslated version on PS, I just have a natural preference for the one I started off with.

Also there's the fact that I'm not too fond of the "old english" era, even learning about it in high school and whatnot, so I really never cared for the "dialect".

I enjoyed War of the Lions as much as the original, but the new translations kinda weakened my experience a tad bit.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Nah, I think the thread has really just proven some people take to it, some don't, and really don't. I really like the localisation for the game but I think it's unfair to say he's wrong with people agreeing with him and it being so subjective. Better to just say we disagree with him.

I do really like that localisation though, I love the way they've handled Ivalice from game to game. In general the quality bar has stayed high, and t feels consistent game to game. Hus give us another haha

The thread title states that this game's translation sacrifices readability. It doesn't.
You might not like the flavored prose, but it is not sacrificing readability over that.

 

[WilyRook]

Technically this would have a different meaning - "no purchase with me" is where 'purchase' means grip or traction, not a monetary transaction for goods

It doesn't work as a metaphor? I thought it sounded like she was refusing to act differently in spite of his worrying. So refusing to give him something back in exchange for his worrying. To be clear I've completely forgotten most of the story.

 

[TheYanger]

"When a man's verses cannot be understood, nor a man's good wit seconded with the forward child Understanding, it strikes a man more dead than a great reckoning in a little room.-Truly, I would the gods had made thee poetical." - Touchstone

I'm only teasing.

Do you mean simple changes, though?

"Speak plainly," instead of "Make your purpose plain."

"Worrying will purchase nothing from me," instead of "Your worry will find no purchase with me."

"What news?" instead of "What news have you?"

"Be silent, Ludovich," instead of "Still your tongue, Ludovich."

Is this more palatable?

None of these really have the same meaning, though. They also sound worse.

It doesn't work as a metaphor? I thought it sounded like she was refusing to act differently in spite of his worrying. So refusing to give him something back in exchange for his worrying. To be clear I've completely forgotten most of the story.

It's more bizarre that way than it was as originally written. The gist is just "I'm going to do what I'm going to do, your concerns aren't going to change that" - it's about being resolute.

 

[kiaaa]

It doesn't work as a metaphor? I thought it sounded like she was refusing to act differently in spite of his worrying. So refusing to give him something back in exchange for his worrying. To be clear I've completely forgotten most of the story.

The typical purchase implies an exchange of goods or services usually. Not an enormous difference but it makes more sense the way it's written in the game.

 

[Marceles]

The translation, delay between spells, and different sound effects is literally why I haven't been able to finish WotL. I keep thinking that I can ignore it all and play through it all but I just can't

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I think the only one in the OP that doesn't make grammatical sense is 'I mislike this'. Most of the others, while some are pretentious, make sense. Reminds me of Vagrant Story.

 

[kiaaa]

I think the only one in the OP that doesn't make grammatical sense is 'I mislike this'. Most of the others, while some are pretentious, make sense. Reminds me of Vagrant Story.

Mislike works; it's just centuries out of fashion.

 

[WilyRook]

None of these really have the same meaning, though. They also sound worse.



It's more bizarre that way than it was as originally written. The gist is just "I'm going to do what I'm going to do, your concerns aren't going to change that" - it's about being resolute.

I didn't intend for those to sound like I thought they were better alternatives. I'm just curious what exactly is unnatural or inorganic about those specific lines. They're fun to read. It's probably just another subjective thing.

 

[renzolama]

This thread is giving me a serious Idiocracy vibe

 

[Dunan]

Exactly. The OG translation is a "bad translation" in that it is messy, but it is more direct and to the point.


This is also spot on. It's not unreadable, it's not hard to read, it's just unpleasant to read. It doesn't sound natural at all. My undergrad major was English and I have a degree in literature, BTW, so it's not like I'm not used to Shakespeare and more artistic uses of the language. It just feels overly flowery and out of place in FFT. It's made more egregious by the fact that the original Japanese dialogue is pretty straightforward.

I hate to be "that guy", but... you are familiar with iambic pentameter, are you not? "Child" has to be one syllable for it to scan properly, but it does scan right. The Lucavi and also the godlike beings (Occuria? I've forgotten) in FFXII talk like this. Ten syllables per line, with the even-numbered syllables having slightly more stress. "Who once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" doesn't sound too bad when you realize the restrictions that it's being written with.

If this slipped past you, go back and read these dialogues again; I think you'll appreciate them all the more.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I hate to be "that guy", but... you are familiar with iambic pentameter, are you not? "Child" has to be one syllable for it to scan properly, but it does scan right. The Lucavi and also the godlike beings (Occuria? I've forgotten) in FFXII talk like this. Ten syllables per line, with the even-numbered syllables having slightly more stress. "Who once was hers, now kin to naught but woe" doesn't sound too bad when you realize the restrictions that it's being written with.

If this slipped past you, go back and read these dialogues again; I think you'll appreciate them all the more.

Child, is also not really out of place for the Lucavi either, the Lucavi were myths and legends at a time (FFXII) that was a myth and legend to FFTs primary myth and legend (Ajora). Pretty much everything is child-like in experience compared to them.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

the new script is pretty great in my opinion

i guess something like call of duty would be a better fit for someone who has problems understanding it

 

[Basileus777]

the new script is pretty great in my opinion

i guess something like call of duty would be a better fit for someone who has problems understanding it

I actually like the WOTL translation, but it's pretty amazing to see these infantile attacks the OP is getting. "Learn to read." "Go play Call of Duty!" This is some something you'd expect out of youtube comments.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I actually like the WOTL translation, but it's pretty amazing to see these infantile attacks the OP is getting. "Learn to read." "Go play Call of Duty!" This is some something you'd expect out of youtube comments.

i never said "go play call of duty" was an attack

those were your words

 

[.JayZii]

I'm not a Trump supporter, but this is the type of elitism that alienates working class americans from the left.. but I digress.

I wasn't calling you a Trump supporter, I was making a joke about what another retranslation could be. Trump has a very particular way of speaking that appeals to many people in middle America. Because that way of speaking is so popular, I was suggesting (farcically) that changing the game's translation to resemble that rhetoric might increase the game's popularity. I then went on to reference a popularly lampooned line from the original translation because it bears some resemblance to the way President Trump is known to speak. I hope my explanation of the joke reassures you that I was not in fact attacking you or whatever political ideologies you may hold. I apologize for my elitist critique of President Trump's vernacular which may have offended you and unfortunately caused you to digress within your own thread.

Perhaps victim complex fragility is a problem of our times, as well. Lot's to think about in this thread.

 

[Basileus777]

i never said "go play call of duty" was an attack

those were your words

Yeah, I'm really sure the implication behind that was benign.

 

[humansarehorses]

I mean, I'm not a native speaker and haven't ever read Shakespeare in English, so the fact that promontory was the only word I didn't understand makes it surprisingly understandable imo. I have definitely come across much less understandable prose before.

I doubt you've come across the word mirth before. And as a native speaker, if I and (most likely) the majority of other native speakers do not understand the meaning of key words in a mere 2 sentence passage, I would not call that passage surprisingly understandable.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I doubt you've come across the word mirth before. And as a native speaker, if I and (most likely) the majority of other native speakers do not understand the meaning of key words in a mere 2 sentence passage, I would not call that passage surprisingly understandable.

english is not my first language

i learnt the meaning of "mirth" in adolescence

 

[shouamabane]

The OP makes me want to play the game more. The translation makes this game stand out.

 

["D"]

Oh wow. I understood the new translations for War of the Lions but I still didn't like them too much. Saying the OP needs to play something else or learn how to read is a bit much though.

I don't agree with his general statement in saying that the readability is sacrificed cause that is a totally subjective experience from one person to the next, but to bash him cause he doesn't like or understand "philosophical" way the characters talk is a little harsh.

 

[Kamina]

I am come to tell you that you speake false, OP.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

(I still prefer to play the PS1 FFT on Vita though. Wotl looks so fuzzy.)

 

[Sseklebeast]

PSOne me: Fuck this thread.

PSP/Mobile me: Alas this thread.

All jokes aside, I love WotL. My only problems with it are the lack of dialogue when using abilities/spells mid-battle, slowdown in PSP version (there is a patch at least), and the sound effects are way off. Also on Android, the battles feel so sped up but otherwise its great. I played the PSOne version day one and loved it but had a hard time understanding parts of the story. I was also younger so too so that could be part of why I had trouble.

 

[humansarehorses]

english is not my first language

i learnt the meaning of "mirth" in adolescence

Where? No one uses it in daily discourse or in their writings. The only situation I can think of where you'll come across it is if you're reading literature that does use such outdated vocabulary.

 

[Skilletor]

I doubt you've come across the word mirth before. And as a native speaker, if I and (most likely) the majority of other native speakers do not understand the meaning of key words in a mere 2 sentence passage, I would not call that passage surprisingly understandable.

Mirth is some obscure word? What?

 

[Lothar]

Mirth is some obscure word? What?

I've never heard it before. I would have to look it up. What's it mean, money?

 

[Eridani]

I doubt you've come across the word mirth before. And as a native speaker, if I and (most likely) the majority of other native speakers do not understand the meaning of key words in a mere 2 sentence passage, I would not call that passage surprisingly understandable.

I have.

 

[humansarehorses]

Mirth is some obscure word? What?

I've never encountered it in any modern writing in the US. Not in television, movies, games, news articles, op-ed's or research papers. I've never heard anyone use it in conversation or during a speech either.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I've never heard it before. I would have to look it up. What's it mean, money?

Amusement/joy with a fairly strong implication of it involving laughter.

I've never encountered it in any modern writing in the US. Not in television, movies, games, news articles, op-ed's or research papers. I've never heard anyone use it in conversation or during a speech either.

This doesn't surprise me, it's fairly archaic (its a word that was on its way out of common use by 1850).

 

[Skilletor]

I've never heard it before. I would have to look it up. What's it mean, money?

Joy or happiness.

I've never encountered it in any modern writing in the US. Not in television, movies, games, news articles, op-ed's or research papers. I've never heard anyone use it in conversation or during a speech either.

Just did a search in a few books. Stephen King, George Martin, Cormac McCarthy, Neil Gaiman...several books used it. Just the first few authors on my phone.

 

[kiaaa]

I've never heard it before. I would have to look it up. What's it mean, money?

I couldn't give you an exact definition, but it's a mixture of happiness/energy. Like the opposite of depression or lethargy.

I've never encountered it in any modern writing in the US. Not in television, movies, games, news articles, op-ed's or research papers. I've never heard anyone use it in conversation or during a speech either.

It's out-dated, but I wouldn't exactly call it obscure. You can find it in a ton of classic literature/poetry.

 

[Eridani]

For what it's worth, I also just remembered that I have come across promontory before (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilsons_Promontory) though I never took the time to look up what it actually meant.

So yeah, surprisingly readable sounds about right.

 

[humansarehorses]

Just did a search in a few books. Stephen King, George Martin, Cormac McCarthy, Neil Gaiman...several books used it. Just the first few authors on my phone.

You're searching for the use of a word in a limited selection of books that are written by people with literary or journalistic backgrounds who tend to have larger vocabularies than the average person.

That in no way shows that the word isn't obscure in modern discourse or modern writings (and as my prior post implied, modern writings includes much more than works of fiction).

 

[Skilletor]

You're searching for the use of a word in a limited selection of books that are written by people with literary or journalistic backgrounds who tend to have larger vocabularies than the average person.

That in no way shows that the word isn't obscure in modern discourse or modern writings (and as my prior post implied, modern writings includes much more than works of fiction).

Lol. Okay.

 

[Gauntlet]

I learned the word "mirth" from paying attention in high school English class.

The writing in War of the Lions is extremely appropriate and adds flavor and personality to the setting.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I learned the word "mirth" from paying attention in high school English class.

The writing in War of the Lions is extremely appropriate and adds flavor and personality to the setting.

...and the cycle repeats...

 

[humansarehorses]

Lol. Okay.

Yeah, having your argument attacked because it's based on an unrepresentative sample takes all of the fun out of making bad arguments.

 

[Skilletor]

Yeah, having your argument attacked because it's based on an unrepresentative sample takes all of the fun out of making bad arguments.

Nah, just not that serious.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I'm going to go play this game now. Thanks for the recommendation, OP

 

[Durante]

"When a man's verses cannot be understood, nor a man's good wit seconded with the forward child Understanding, it strikes a man more dead than a great reckoning in a little room.-Truly, I would the gods had made thee poetical." - Touchstone

I'm only teasing.

Do you mean simple changes, though?

"Speak plainly," instead of "Make your purpose plain."

"Worrying will purchase nothing from me," instead of "Your worry will find no purchase with me."

"What news?" instead of "What news have you?"

"Be silent, Ludovich," instead of "Still your tongue, Ludovich."

Is this more palatable?

Erm, as I said I'm not a native speaker, but isn't the meaning of those very different?

Technically this would have a different meaning - "no purchase with me" is where 'purchase' means grip or traction, not a monetary transaction for goods

Right.

... an episode which would appear to lend some credence to the claims of obscurity espoused by the esteemed thread creator.

 

[Pinko Marx]

You're searching for the use of a word in a limited selection of books that are written by people with literary or journalistic backgrounds who tend to have larger vocabularies than the average person.

That in no way shows that the word isn't obscure in modern discourse or modern writings (and as my prior post implied, modern writings includes much more than works of fiction).

Yeah, having your argument attacked because it's based on an unrepresentative sample takes all of the fun out of making bad arguments.

You've spent two pages now telling people that they couldn't have possibly heard the word mirth before.
Let it go fam.

 

[badcrumble]

You're searching for the use of a word in a limited selection of books that are written by people with literary or journalistic backgrounds who tend to have larger vocabularies than the average person.

That in no way shows that the word isn't obscure in modern discourse or modern writings (and as my prior post implied, modern writings includes much more than works of fiction).

it's okay for games not to aim for the lowest common denominator in their writing, in my opinion

 

[Green Mamba]

Now "mirth" is too hard of a word.

 

[WilyRook]

Erm, as I said I'm not a native speaker, but isn't the meaning of those very different?

Right.

... an episode which would appear to lend some credence to the claims of obscurity espoused by the esteemed thread creator.

yeah, that was very much my bad. I was set to rights right quick, though. Simply forgot that meaning.

It sounds like fvng's problem is more about readability than obscurity, though. I'll admit it's strange that I genuinely thought my variation sounded simpler in my head lol

 

[coopolon]

This thread made me excited to play this game on my phone sometime! Really enjoy well done dialogues in media, reminds me a lot of elmore leanord (well, it's been awhile since I've read anything of his, but I just rewatched justified and in my memory he wrote the short stories that way).