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[FlutterPuffs]

It's already 2017, 26 years after Toy Story 1.

And people are still defending the graphics. I dont think even the ones at Pixar will agree at this point.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

edit: woops

 

[Wishmaster92]

The best thing possible for Zelda is for it to stay stylized as much as possible. In terms of physics and stuff Zelda seems way farther ahead of Horizon considering that was a seemingly a huge focus for Nintendo's new proprietary engine. Engines are more than renderers...


Looking at some of those 4k images and videos on gamersyde and genuinely not seeing it. Horizon still very much looks like a video game. This is the sort of stuff I think about when it comes to game engine rendering perfectly replicating the crisp look of CGI:


As a video game it's like holy hell the technical wizardry on display. But still not gonna confuse me with CGI, (especially outside of the photomode).

Death Stranding currently looks more CGI than those tech demos, both in micro and macro level of detail.

 

[Tyaren]

Re: IQ on 4k screens

I've noticed checkerboarded 4k comes out really wonky in screenshots. My Watch Dogs 2 captures look absolutely awful but in the game the IQ is pristine. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can explain it.

Something's wrong with ronaldthump's pics though. Great photos, he's got talent, but the IQ and compression is terrible. I've discussed that already in another thread with him. We are still not sure why the IQ turns out so bad. If you look at Slasher's 4K pics in the Horizon impressions thread you see the IQ is actually much cleaner.

 

[nOoblet16]

Genuinely think a computer would have more trouble rendering a scene of toy story than a scene of horizon.

This isn't true.
It is possible to render Toy Story 1 in real time with today's hardware even if you use the exact same code as they did back in the day. It is possible to match the visuals 1:1 by using modern rendering techniques and make it run even more faster.

Hardware today is considerably more powerful than what they had in 1994.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Death Stranding currently looks more CGI than those tech demos, both in micro and macro level of detail.

Yeah...the character model in Death Stranding of Mads is the best I have seen using a real time engine...the likeness is beyond uncanny.

 

[Dictator93]

Yeah...the character model in Death Stranding of Mads is the best I have seen using a real time engine...the likeness is beyond uncanny.

Yeah, that model is VERY NICE.

Comparison to Horizon (although a bit unfair since this is not from a directed cutscene AFAIK), still it shows off differences in texture resolution quite well. If anyone has a nice similar close up from a cutscene, that would be great.

 

[jacksepticeye]

The one area of this game that lets it down visually is water. Still water in the game looks like ass and has almost no interaction with the character swimming through it. Flowing water fares a little better
That being said the game is fucking fantastic looking. Seeing huge mountains in the distance being enveloped in fog and clouds while the sun filters through is wizardry. I think that's why the water is so jarring, cos everything else is amazing

 

[nOoblet16]

The one area of this game that lets it down visually is water. Still water in the game looks like ass and has almost no interaction with the character swimming through it. Flowing water fares a little better
That being said the game is fucking fantastic looking. Seeing huge mountains in the distance being enveloped in fog and clouds while the sun filters through is wizardry. I think that's why the water is so jarring, cos everything else is amazing

Yea I said that in my first post I made in this thread. I dont expect them to use FFT for waves and mesh deformation for ripples but I donno why they didn't use some half decent shaders for ripples and use a little bit of alpha for splashes. Like just have something there.

 

[Ahasverus]

Yeah, that model is VERY NICE.

Comparison to Horizon (although a bit unfair since this is not from a directed cutscene AFAIK), still it shows off differences in texture resolution quite well. If anyone has a nice similar close up from a cutscene, that would be great.

Still looks fantastic imo. PS2 era game CGI.

 

[nOoblet16]

Yeah, that model is VERY NICE.

Comparison to Horizon (although a bit unfair since this is not from a directed cutscene AFAIK), still it shows off differences in texture resolution quite well. If anyone has a nice similar close up from a cutscene, that would be great.

I fully believe that Death Stranding will look nothing like that in game and we will have the same sort of comparitively flat face as in in that Horizon screenshot.

It's simply because in a cutscene you can have proper soft lighting and shadows that makes a model's features come out as best as possible plus they can always add a bit more detail on faces and objects.

 

[Dictator93]

I fully believe that Death Stranding will look nothing like that in game and we will have the same sort of comparison flat face as in in that Horizon Screenshot.

Yep, I imagine it will have rather reduced complexity in-game if it comes out on this gen's PS4, PS4pro included.

It's simply because in a cutscene you can have proper soft lighting and shadows plus a bit more detail on faces.

Yeah, as I said in the comment on it: a cutscene comparison would show off the model detail and shading better, but things like texture resolution are good for fair game comparison there.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Death Stranding currently looks more CGI than those tech demos, both in micro and macro level of detail.

Llike those demos, it's an incredibly controlled scenario. And no it really doesn't look better than the Adam demo, by quite a large margin. The face model of Mad's character looks a lot less gamey than the rest of him. (you can still see polygonal edges on some parts of his model including those fingers). And then there's Del Toro who looks a lot less good visually than Reedus or Mads for some reason. And then ofc hair and lighting.

This isn't true.
It is possible to render Toy Story 1 in real time with today's hardware even if you use the exact same code as they did back in the day. It is possible to match the visuals 1:1 by using modern rendering techniques and make it run even more faster.

Hardware today is considerably more powerful than what they had in 1994.

I suppose you're right in that regard. Technically i've rendered scene that're more advanced than a frame in toy story.

I fully believe that Death Stranding will look nothing like that in game and we will have the same sort of comparitively flat face as in in that Horizon screenshot.

It's simply because in a cutscene you can have proper soft lighting and shadows that makes a model's features come out as best as possible plus they can always add a bit more detail on faces and objects.

Curious about how close you think ND will get to their target for TLOU2?

 

[jacksepticeye]

Yea I said that in my first post I made in this thread. I dont expect them to use FFT for waves and mesh deformation for ripples but I donno why they didn't use some half decent shaders for ripples and use a little bit of alpha for splashes. Like just have something there.

Yeah it's quite distracting. Especially when you fall from a cliff into water and it has almost no reaction to your presence.

 

[ronaldthump]

Death Stranding will not look like that. Its a tech demo without AI+game engine behind it. Just a fully realised cutscene

Horzion doesn't really have cutscenes - like uncharted 4, it seems to have prerendereed cutscenes where the fidelity of the talking heads sequences have better visuals - you'll immediatelly notice that when the talking ends, that the fidelity drops to inengine.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Yeah, that model is VERY NICE.

Comparison to Horizon (although a bit unfair since this is not from a directed cutscene AFAIK), still it shows off differences in texture resolution quite well. If anyone has a nice similar close up from a cutscene, that would be great.

Yeah obviously there is a big difference, but that Horizon model is taken from gameplay I think (using Photomode), and at 4K it looks very impressive for what it is.

Personally I also think the Death Stranding model looks much better than the ones in the Adam demo...but that is because of the skill of the modelers, rather than technical brute force.

Ronaldthump: Do the costume changes turn up in cutscenes in Horizon? If so, they are likely ingame. I think all the cutscenes are real time. All of them are real time in Uncharted 4...well a couple aren't, but the vast majority are.

 

[Kremzeek]

Yea I said that in my first post I made in this thread. I dont expect them to use FFT for waves and mesh deformation for ripples but I donno why they didn't use some half decent shaders for ripples and use a little bit of alpha for splashes. Like just have something there.

could they realistically add that in an upcoming patch?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Death Stranding will not look like that. Its a tech demo without AI+game engine behind it. Just a fully realised cutscene

Horzion doesn't really have cutscenes - like uncharted 4, it seems to have prerendereed cutscenes where the fidelity of the talking heads sequences have better visuals - you'll immediatelly notice that when the talking ends, that the fidelity drops to inengine.

Horizon seems to have some pre-rendered cutscenes in the first hour or so for after that they seem to all be realtime, almost all of UC4's scenes are realtime too. During conversations they have specific lights set up to make the models look a lot better.

 

[nOoblet16]

Llike those demos, it's an incredibly controlled scenario. And no it really doesn't look better than the Adam demo, by quite a large margin. The face model of Mad's character looks a lot less gamey than the rest of him. (you can still see polygonal edges on some parts of his model including those fingers). And then there's Del Toro who looks a lot less good visually than Reedus or Mads for some reason. And then ofc hair and lighting.


I suppose you're right in that regard. Technically i've rendered scene that're more advanced than a frame in toy story.


Curious about how close you think ND will get to their target for TLOU2?

I think that trailer was cutscene visuals. The NF engine proved with UC4 that it's capable of that. If you find TLoU2 looking more realistic then it's because UC has a stylised look rather than full realism.

could they realistically add that in an upcoming patch?

I doubt that, beside water in every GG game has looked and interacted like shit. I can't exactly remember how it was in KZSF tho.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

Performance was my biggest fear for this game and I'm so happy they nailed it.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I think that trailer was cutscene visuals. The NF engine proved with UC4 that it's capable of that. If you find TLoU2 looking more realistic then it's because UC has a stylised look rather than full realism.

Some shots in that trailer looked almost photoreal and way ahead of any one scene in UC4 aside from the initial trailer.

 

[icecold1983]

The best thing possible for Zelda is for it to stay stylized as much as possible. In terms of physics and stuff Zelda seems way farther ahead of Horizon considering that was a seemingly a huge focus for Nintendo's new proprietary engine. Engines are more than renderers...


Looking at some of those 4k images and videos on gamersyde and genuinely not seeing it. Horizon still very much looks like a video game. This is the sort of stuff I think about when it comes to game engine rendering perfectly replicating the crisp look of CGI:


As a video game it's like holy hell the technical wizardry on display. But still not gonna confuse me with CGI, (especially outside of the photomode).

those still look gamey to me. id say the most cgi ish ive seen is epics infiltrator demo

http://www.gamersyde.com/leech_31643_1_en.html

to think that ran realtime on a 680

 

[KainXVIII]

Still looks fantastic imo. PS2 era game CGI.

Nah, ps2 fmv model looks like dolls (especially bad/absent skin shaders)

 

[Tyaren]

It somehow bothers me that Aloy's nose tip is missing texture detail like skin pores. XD
The rest of the model looks so good though. Those eyes... You can see the eye and it's parts like the cornea, lense and Iris are all anatomically correct modelled.

 

[nOoblet16]

It somehow bothers me that Aloy's nose tip is missing texture detail like skin pores. XD
The rest of the model looks so good though. Those eyes... You can see the eye and it's parts like the cornea, lense and Iris are all anatomically correct modelled.

Post apocalyptic tribal make up.

But yes really it's very common for games to have female characters with almost no or little pores.

 

[nOoblet16]

Some shots in that trailer looked almost photoreal and way ahead of any one scene in UC4 aside from the initial trailer.

I'd put it down to artstyle, Uncharted never went for photorealistic look.

 

[Lord Error]

Some shots in that trailer looked almost photoreal and way ahead of any one scene in UC4 aside from the initial trailer.

There were scenes in UC4 that looked considerably better than others. The one where you have to escape from under the Jeep after it catches on fire is one of them - everyone I know who's seen it has it stuck in their mind as a standout. There were a few others, mostly cutscenes, like the one where Elena makes a surprise appearance, or when Drake wakes up in the rain. I think they may have figured some things out as they went along, and it's not unreasonable to think that they can apply that for the next game.

It somehow bothers me that Aloy's nose tip is missing texture detail like skin pores. XD
The rest of the model looks so good though. Those eyes... You can see the eye and it's parts like the cornea, lense and Iris are all anatomically correct modelled.

It looks like the nose is out of focus, maybe because of the shallow DOF / being too close to the camera.

 

[Bollocks]

ffs sony where is the pro + game bundle?
I would bite

 

[Inuhanyou]

according to some, this game doesn't look all that different from RDR on 360 in terms of visual quality

 

[Tyaren]

It looks like the nose is out of focus, maybe because of the shallow DOF / being too close to the camera.

You have a point there. That could be the reason for the seemingly blurry nose tip texture.

 

[0ptimusPayne]

Anybody speculating what extra PS4 Pro mode will be offered down the line like the video states? Wonder If they can somehow get it to run in 60FPSish and drop the resolution to 1080p/dynamic res. I don't know shit about how this wizardry all works, so save the elitist tech comments for someone else please lol.

 

[HStallion]

according to some, this game doesn't look all that different from RDR on 360 in terms of visual quality

According to some women of color being prevalent is scary and offensive

 

[Inuhanyou]

According to some women of color being prevalent is scary and offensive

Er, no need to bring identity politics in a fight about graphics mate

its not that serious

Anybody speculating what extra PS4 Pro mode will be offered down the line like the video states? Wonder If they can somehow get it to run in 60FPSish and drop the resolution to 1080p/dynamic res. I don't know shit about how this wizardry all works, so save the elitist tech comments for someone else please lol.

The entire reason they can offer this performance mode is by dropping the resolution down to 1080p. What that means for FPS we don't know, but its not going to be 60fps.

 

[sugarman]

Well damn do I just get this for PS4 or wait for more reasons to buy a Pro. My KS8000 is dying for more 4K.

 

[0ptimusPayne]

Er, no need to bring identity politics in a fight about graphics mate

its not that serious



The entire reason they can offer this performance mode is by dropping the resolution down to 1080p. What that means for FPS we don't know, but its not going to be 60fps.

So maybe 1080p w more bells and whistles with lighting/effects/etc instead you think? I'd actually like that option down the line.

 

[HStallion]

Er, no need to bring identity politics in a fight about graphics mate

its not that serious

Many of those complaints came from the same place is my point and a reason they shouldn't be listened to.

 

[Electret]

according to some, this game doesn't look all that different from RDR on 360 in terms of visual quality

Yeah, it's a jpg, but...for anyone making that claim it's time to see the eye doctor.

 

[Crossing Eden]

those still look gamey to me. id say the most cgi ish ive seen is epics infiltrator demo

http://www.gamersyde.com/leech_31643_1_en.html

to think that ran realtime on a 680

That is a gorgeous trailer.

I'd put it down to artstyle, Uncharted never went for photorealistic look.

Except for UC4's original trailer.. >_>

There were scenes in UC4 that looked considerably better than others. The one where you have to escape from under the Jeep after it catches on fire is one of them - everyone I know who's seen it has it stuck in their mind as a standout. There were a few others, mostly cutscenes, like the one where Elena makes a surprise appearance, or when Drake wakes up in the rain. I think they may have figured some things out as they went along, and it's not unreasonable to think that they can apply that for the next game.

I mean yea ofc they figured things out as they went along and some scenes look better than others but TLOU2's initial trailer wouldn't be the first time they overshot what's possible, especially in realtime. Like UC4's initial trailer. The shot with the dead woman is what gets me. Like, no they're not hitting that in the same way they didn't hit how realistically wet Drake was in that initital trailer. The models themselves look representative tho.

according to some, this game doesn't look all that different from RDR on 360 in terms of visual quality

That's just silly.

 

[Crossing Eden]

.

 

[icecold1983]

new gamersyde 4k vids

http://gamersyde.com/news_a_bit_more_horizon_zero_dawn_beauty-18817_en.html

 

[Spiral Insanity]

It somehow bothers me that Aloy's nose tip is missing texture detail like skin pores. XD
The rest of the model looks so good though. Those eyes... You can see the eye and it's parts like the cornea, lense and Iris are all anatomically correct modelled.

The nose tip looks like it is blurred due to a depth of field effect.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Idk, AF, AA, polycounts, and resolution are the biggest issues I have with BOTW visually. Don't think it'd benefit with less stylization. You can be stylized while at the same time using modern rendering tech. Zelda really doesn't mesh well with realistic, TP looks like ass and frankly so does that tech demo where Link had clay hair. Zelda is perhaps Nintendo's most technically advanced series, where they have to use more modern things like mocap. But they are pretty small as a studio relatively speaking, the flaws show, the flaws show up less often when they go for stylization.

I totally agree about the way Zelda is stylised, I would never want them to go for a more realistic look again like TP because as you say it's not aged well at all. BotW is the perfect visual mix of WW and SS, they should only build on that going forward. When I said cutting edge rendering I meant things like PBR which works well in Overwatch despite it going for a highly stylised look.

A lot of people forget that Nintendo have maybe four development teams that can do large scale, modern 3D rendering well (and the teams are tiny compared to the other companies AAA teams). The rest of their development teams are used to doing much smaller scale 3DS stuff. It's going to be interesting to see how those smaller teams adjust to the massive technical leap that Switch is over 3DS.

The character models above are stunning!

 

[Frozone]

Firstly, those are not Toy Story 1 screenshots and the first tow of those are very unflattering and "gamey" as you like to put it. I'm sure you have seen UC4 screenshots from the epilogue with prebaked lighting that look close to the third shot btw. Secondly, CGI movies like Pixar movies are never crisp. There has been extensive input from Pixar developers on this matter where they mention that in order to get a perfectly aliasing free image it is necessary to have a soft look because no matter how high the resolution goes you will find imperfections unless you soften the image.

Lastly, looking "like a game" isn't necessarily a bad thing especially when Toy Story itself doesn't look anything realistic nor does it manages to look like a game. That movie is simply dated CGI that was surpassed in many many ways.

I think what Cross Eden is trying to say is that the "videogame" look is still apparent whereas TS1 (and any of the other CGI movies) look more 'in-line' with what you'd expect. Take multiple shadow casting lights for every object as a perfect example. Literally way too costly in videogames and the lack thereof makes the image look "wrong". The foilage with semi-transparent sprite cards (instead of real geo) also stands out as "video-gamey" since they don't respond to lighting in the same way and you can see the polygon edges if you look close enough. Lots of texture detail is tapered back on low budget assets like foliage, tree branches, buckets, props, etc.. it's just not really comparable IMO.

 

[TAJ]

Toy Story characters were b-spline models with around 30,000 vertices.
The lighting was just some point lights with very primitive falloff, some parallel lights and an ambient value.
Materials were basic AF.

 

[Cyberia]

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[Paragon]

Crysis 3 Ultra settings grass finally surpassed?

We are even comparing it to Crysis 3 ultra setting grass , is a feat in itself!!
Although for me personally it is upto there or even slightly better .

While Horizon looks good, I wouldn't say that it's surpassed Crysis 3. The foliage in that game is insane.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Seeing Horizon running on a PS4 Pro and a 4K HDR TV at a PS event way back convinced me to buy all three things. Today is a great day

same

I r excite

according to some, this game doesn't look all that different from RDR on 360 in terms of visual quality

Those people are known as "blind"

 

[icecold1983]

While Horizon looks good, I wouldn't say that it's surpassed Crysis 3. The foliage in that game is insane.

crysis 3 still has the best grass overall imo as well. horizon is a good ways ahead all aspects combined however. not having well designed physically based materials is hard to go back to. really makes games look artificial.

 

[dr guildo]

While Horizon looks good, I wouldn't say that it's surpassed Crysis 3. The foliage in that game is insane.

More various, more natural, better lit... than Crysis imo. I have to try Horizon to see if it surpasses UC4 in terms of diversity and self shadowing and lighting on foliage.

 

[KKRT00]

More various, more natural, better lit... than Crysis imo. I have to try Horizon to see if it surpasses UC4 in terms of diversity and self shadowing and lighting on foliage.

But it doesnt move like foliage. Same goes for Battlefront which has outstanding vegetation in terms of asset quality, but physics are poor.

And then you have interaction:
https://s1.webmshare.com/WJ93n.webm


Now Crysis 3 doesnt have too much unique assets for vegetation, but they do physics the best from all games i've played:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh2Lv97OhMg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWvgETOo5ek&feature=youtu.be&t=136