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[Boke1879]

They release this shit before a WiiU vs Switch comparison? what is wrong with you?

It dont even matter. I'm sure most people will be playing the Switch version. But it would be nice to see how the Wii U version holds up.

I just don't see how the performance is so poor in docked mode for Nintendo. I have no issues playing portable, but I don't want that to be my main method.

 

[Diablohead]

Been watching people play on twitch quite a bit since yesterday morning and while there is slowdown, i'm not seeing it that often at all.

it sucks that some early areas drop to 20 but if the game is stable 95% of the time i'm ok with that.

 

[WonkyPanda]

The is not a fault of the hardware. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe runs in Native 1080p60fps on Switch where this was not possible on the U. Using the Wii U as a benchmark, from the info gathered it would appear this is a problem with the optimization of the port rather than a problem with the Docked Switch being incapable or underpowered.

Agreed. Something is screwy.

 

[maxcriden]

Not watching to avoid any spoilers.

Is this post-patch, I assume?

How bad or frequent are the drops?

Does changing system output to 720 improve the framerate?

 

[Frankie Faison]

This is embarrassing for Nintendo.

Hahaha. I bet they're hiding in shame at their best game in years, well since NSMBu. People need to get some perspective.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

From Digital Foundry...

"This is only a theory, but it does make sense based on the data available. Laying out the maths here, docking increases pixel count from 720p to 900p, a 56 per cent in resolution. However, memory bandwidth only rises by 20 per cent, from 1331MHz to 1600MHz. Bandwidth is shared between CPU and GPU, so the higher resolution in the home console mode may be sapping memory bandwidth away from the main processor cores, making us more prone to slowdown when the CPU is under load. Bandwidth concerns may also explain why resolution doesn't scale closer in line with the difference in clock-speeds (307.2MHz or 384MHz undocked, 768MHz docked). "

And not to mention the custom Tegra in the switch has way less memory bandwidth than a standard Tegra, in other words this is a bottleneck that will take a hardware revision rather than a patch to solve.

Pro Dock announced for E3

 

[Max_Po]

rofl ...struggling to 900p in 2017 on your TV...

 

[fireflame]

A perfect score means perfection and must not be given lightly.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Tablet mode received a boost, right? Like for the CPU or GPU? Maybe that's what's helping portable mode.

 

[platina]

Opinions. How do they work. Also the score of the game doesn't affect your daily life in any way shape or form, so don't let it bother you even if you disagree with it, it'll make life simpler, I promise.

Exactly, just look at all the metacritic threads for big releases.

 

[RoadHazard]

I can't figure what gif would best suit this thread..

Is for some reason the dock is down clocking the cpu? Something doesn't make sense if it runs fine Undocked. I couldn't read all thread posts.

No, the most likely reason is a memory bandwidth bottleneck. The GPU should definitely be able to handle 900p, even 1080p, in docked mode, but that higher resolution comes with higher memory bandwidth requirements. Evidently the Switch cannot meet them. Something like MK8 runs fine in 1080p (vs 720p in handheld mode) because it probably doesn't have a lot of effects that require a lot of memory bandwidth, but games like BotW cannot really be done in high resolutions on this device. This is gonna be a trend for this system, I'm pretty sure.

EDIT:

The is not a fault of the hardware. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe runs in Native 1080p60fps on Switch where this was not possible on the U. Using the Wii U as a benchmark, from the info gathered it would appear this is a problem with the optimization of the port rather than a problem with the Docked Switch being incapable or underpowered.

See the above. MK8 probably doesn't use many alpha effects and such that require a lot of memory bandwidth. BotW does (all that grass, etc).

 

[PdotMichael]

Yes, but what we all believed was that optimizing at 720p for the handheld mode would mean that games would more or less "automatically" run the same at 1080p in docked mode. That's what the clock leaks told us. That's not happening, which indicates serious memory bandwidth issues.

Memory bandwidth issues.

How I miss all the dog pilling when claimed that it could be an issue just a few months ago.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

well here's your first mistake

no game is perfect

Just throwing it out there that I don't actually agree with the bolded.

Tetris is perfect. So is Super Hexagon. And Threes.

Thing is, as much as I love those three games, I actually don't think any of them would deserve a 10/10. A "perfect" game isn't necessarily the be-all end-all. Scope matters.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Not watching to avoid any spoilers.

Is this post-patch, I assume?

How bad or frequent are the drops?

Does changing system output to 720 improve the framerate?

Someone should really put in the OP that this is only the Great Plateau area, no spoilers are shown.

 

[bananafactory]

It dont even matter. I'm sure most people will be playing the Switch version. But it would be nice to see how the Wii U version holds up.

I just don't see how the performance is so poor in docked mode for Nintendo. I have no issues playing portable, but I don't want that to be my main method.

According to the poll in the other thread it's close to 50/50 Switch and WiiU customers. Definitely want to see how the WiiU version holds up

 

[bomblord1]

From Digital Foundry...

"This is only a theory, but it does make sense based on the data available. Laying out the maths here, docking increases pixel count from 720p to 900p, a 56 per cent in resolution. However, memory bandwidth only rises by 20 per cent, from 1331MHz to 1600MHz. Bandwidth is shared between CPU and GPU, so the higher resolution in the home console mode may be sapping memory bandwidth away from the main processor cores, making us more prone to slowdown when the CPU is under load. Bandwidth concerns may also explain why resolution doesn't scale closer in line with the difference in clock-speeds (307.2MHz or 384MHz undocked, 768MHz docked). "

And not to mention the custom Tegra in the switch has way less memory bandwidth than a standard Tegra, in other words this is a bottleneck that will take a hardware revision rather than a patch to solve.

Wait, this has less than 25.6? How could we know this?

 

[Orayn]

A perfect score means perfection and must not be given lightly.

No score really means anything and they're all given lightly, always.

 

[thestopsign]

A perfect score means perfection and must not be given lightly.

A perfect score is not given lightly, but it also doesn't mean the game is technically perfect.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

A perfect score means perfection and must not be given lightly.

A perfect score means the game gave me a blowjob. I have yet to receive one from any video game and thus such a score is yet unattainable.

 

[trixx]

wrong thread

 

[Feel the Swift]

Stuff like the marketing is really dock focused though. That's how the Switch presents itself on the front of the box and it's hard to imagine that not being the primary mode of play for most users. Like the DF video says, there is more leeway for shortcuts and performance issues on a handheld screen. If they cannot get stuff running in docked mode properly why are they trying to render something that's more demanding? It's all very sad and undermines the concept of the system.

Certainly. I still believe it is a console first and a problem with Zelda itself.

 

[audio_delay]

Seeing this makes me wonder if nintendo could add a performance mode, for when the console is docked, as in rendering in 720p rather than 900p+. I know some people won't like it, but other love their framerates, me included.

 

[Malus]

Mannn I'm really talking myself into playing on handheld mode now. It would help out with the games IQ as well which is real nice. Guess I'll give it a shot, but not before trying it on the big screen as well.

 

[adamsapple]

That's terrible performance for such a high profile first party title.

I guess the reviewers must have mostly played in handheld mode, a technically under performing game wouldn't be getting that good reviews regardless of quality of content.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Ah yes, remember kids that all scores are meaningless and the proof is in the pudding when given another extensive look at an effects heavy beginning area where most of the bigger frame drops occur, but not actually the whole game.

That's terrible performance for such a high profile first party title.

I guess the reviewers must have mostly played in handheld mode, a technically under performing game wouldn't be getting that good reviews regardless of quality of content.

Many played in docked mode, a few reviewers in particular mentioned they only played in handheld mode for less than a few hours.

 

[Jarmel]

A good amount of the reviews played theirs docked. And almost all of them mention frame rate drops, EasyAllies in particular highlighting the sort of drops you saw in the DF video. But it was not enough to detract the game as a whole. Probably because the drops become more infrequent outside the beginning area.

My understanding is that there are a few areas where at least the U version is just constant struggle such as the villages so I'm really wondering whether that's actually the case or not. As for the reviews, Giantbomb brings it up for one short paragraph and moves on. It felt understated in the reviews I've seen but whoknows maybe the Switch docked doesn't have those drops later.

 

[jmga]

Welcome back to the 64 era.

 

[nordique]

I've had zero issues thus far.

But maybe CPU load will max later on.

Super impressed with the system.

 

[dancrane212]

That's disappointing to hear. I have no plans on giving up my TV, sound setup and going to anything other than the pro controller so I'll have to take those drops as they come rather than go with portable mode.

 

[rekameohs]

Yes, but what we all believed was that optimizing at 720p for the handheld mode would mean that games would more or less "automatically" run the same at 1080p in docked mode. That's what the clock leaks told us. That's not happening, which indicates serious memory bandwidth issues.

Isn't that exactly what Mario Kart did at the preview event? I still feel like Zelda is bugged somehow.

 

[Orayn]

That's terrible performance for such a high profile first party title.

I guess the reviewers must have mostly played in handheld mode, a technically under performing game wouldn't be getting that good reviews regardless of quality of content.

Were you around when GTA IV came out? GTA V? How about The Last of Us? Any Bethesda game ever? They all ran like absolute dogshit and got rave reviews.

 

[Haines]

I actually like playing handheld zelda so this won't bother me I don't think

 

[Mael]

Kudos to the DF team on this vid if only for totally avoiding any kind of spoiler there.
If you've seen e3 footage you can safely watch this vid without fearing that it would be spoiling anything.

 

[PdotMichael]

Wait, this has less than 25.6? How could we know this?

Not that the standard bandwidth is anything remarkable.

 

[btrboyev]

rofl ...struggling to 900p in 2017 on your TV...

Okay..since 2013 since both PS4 and Xbox One also struggle at 900p in some games.

 

[Dictator93]

Were you around when GTA IV came out? GTA V? How about The Last of Us? Any Bethesda game ever? They all ran like absolute dogshit and got rave reviews.

Actually it's about the technical ethics in games journalism.

 

[NSESN]

Yup. It's a marketing problem.

I am a huge Nintendo fan but I absolutely agree. The "Switch won't replace the 3DS" talk is also terrible.

 

[icespide]

Were you around when GTA IV came out? GTA V? How about The Last of Us? Any Bethesda game ever? They all ran like absolute dogshit and got rave reviews.

oh c'mon GTAV wasn't that bad

 

[Jarmel]

From Digital Foundry...

"This is only a theory, but it does make sense based on the data available. Laying out the maths here, docking increases pixel count from 720p to 900p, a 56 per cent in resolution. However, memory bandwidth only rises by 20 per cent, from 1331MHz to 1600MHz. Bandwidth is shared between CPU and GPU, so the higher resolution in the home console mode may be sapping memory bandwidth away from the main processor cores, making us more prone to slowdown when the CPU is under load. Bandwidth concerns may also explain why resolution doesn't scale closer in line with the difference in clock-speeds (307.2MHz or 384MHz undocked, 768MHz docked). "

And not to mention the custom Tegra in the switch has way less memory bandwidth than a standard Tegra, in other words this is a bottleneck that will take a hardware revision rather than a patch to solve.

Wouldn't that imply that for all the more CPU intensive games that the portable version is going to be much smoother than the docked?

 

[Zeouterlimits]

They release this shit before a WiiU vs Switch comparison? what is wrong with you?

They have to play through the just now gotten WiiU version to the same points to have comparison footage.

And what a way to ask that question.
What's wrong with you?!?

 

[thefro]

Hopefully they patch it later (they'll probably have some sort of patch when the DLCs come out at the very least), but it doesn't bother me given that Zelda isn't a FPS or stylish action game.

Also think it's a very good sign for Nintendo that the fandom for the other consoles sees them as a threat again. Not saying that's definitely the case for anyone in this thread, but the Metacritic user accounts giving 0/10s to Zelda make that pretty clear.

Seeing this makes me wonder if nintendo could add a performance mode, for when the console is docked, as in rendering in 720p rather than 900p+. I know some people won't like it, but other love their framerates, me included.

Aren't there games that will drop the resolution when it gets to a taxing area? I think FFXV does that on XB1. That'd even the FPS out.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Wait, this has less than 25.6? How could we know this?

We don't and he doesn't

 

[Boke1879]

Okay..since 2013 since both PS4 and Xbox One also struggle at 900p in some games.

It's just mind boggling because Nintendo actually does put in the effort for good performance. Not to mention how is docked mode so unstable?

 

[Orayn]

oh c'mon GTAV wasn't that bad

I tried to play the PS3 version and yes it was. Large stretches of main story missions ran in the teens or low 20s.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Wouldn't that imply that for all the more CPU intensive games that the portable version is going to be much smoother than the docked?

If they don't optimize it as a priority, I can see that being the case. That said I don't know where he got that last bit of info.

 

[Jarmel]

If they don't optimize it as a priority, I can see that being the case.

RIP Xenoblade Chronicles 2

 

[adamsapple]

Ah yes, remember kids that all scores are meaningless and the proof is in the pudding when given another extensive look at an effects heavy beginning area where most of the bigger frame drops occur, but not actually the whole game.

Many played in docked mode, a few reviewers in particular mentioned they only played in handheld mode for less than a few hours.

I'll chalk it up to 'the zelda effect' then I guess, because this isn't a 98 metacritic worthy performance in my opinion.

Were you around when GTA IV came out? GTA V? How about The Last of Us? Any Bethesda game ever? They all ran like absolute dogshit and got rave reviews.

I was around but I don't recall either GTA IV or V having stretches of extended 20 FPS segments. If you're talking about Skyrim, the 360 and PC versions were perfectly fine, the PS3 version was the only outlier and TLOU on PS3 never dropped down to stretches of 20 FPS either, it would hover in mid 20's in busy segments but never to 20 during combat scenarios.

Besides TLoU, the rest are all multiplatform projects, this is a high priority first party franchise, essentially all of Nintendo's might would be behind this project.

 

[Raguel]

oh c'mon GTAV wasn't that bad

GTA V dropped to 20 to 15 fps in some parts on PS3, I believe. It wasn't detrimental to the enjoyment of the game, much like what most reviewers are saying about this game but it seems like some people here can't seem to grasp that.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

oh c'mon GTAV wasn't that bad

GTA V performed worse than GTA IV last gen. Which is to be expected, but still.

 

[rekameohs]

oh c'mon GTAV wasn't that bad

Spoiler

Neither is Breath of the Wild