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ARMS Global Testpunch Thread: Let's see if this has LEGS
- Thread starter donkey show
- Start date
TheMoon
Member
donkey show
Member
Nah it's waaaaaaaay too early for nerfs. I wouldn't worry about it. Plus we don't know the actual statistics of the winning averages. For all we know it could be that Ribbon Girl had a 15% win rate vs Mechanica's 14%.
Glad to say I contributed a bit to this, only played Ribbon Girl during last weekend lol
Camarasketch
Member
Do you think that Nintendo will go Overwatch, and release different types of outfits for the characters? Would be really cool to have some variety there, I feel that the different color palettes are not enough.
That would imply monetization and it doesn't look like Nintendo is ready yet
Camarasketch
Member
Cosmetics is one of the easiest monetization ways, and they already jumped into the DLC wagon so....
Outfits as amiibo unlockables could be a possibility as well if they don't want to introduce any IAP in the game.
OR, they could just offer them for free, as they already said that they are going to keep creating content for the game for free.
Free characters and free outfits for the already existing characters.
I am here, in case.
HackTheSlash
Member
Through the 2 test punches i only used Ribbon Girl. Got real comfortable with her and was able to rack up quite a bit of points. I hope they dont nerf her 
Didnt Mechanica have most win ratio last week?
Didnt Mechanica have most win ratio last week?
heyyyy-eeeeeeee-eyyyyyy
They're not going to start re-working character based on results of a limited-time, limited-content demo event where win/loss records are being decided by people who have literally never played the game before.
Ribbon Girl is safe, at least until we see the reaults of the first few big tournaments and character distribution in the highest tiers of ranked mode.
Ribbon Girl is safe, at least until we see the reaults of the first few big tournaments and character distribution in the highest tiers of ranked mode.
If Splatoon is any indication it'll be both.
Joegrine_TT
Member
When is the review embargo for ARMS?
I think they will come as signature arms with new characters (3 arms). So new ones and different types of existing arms.
I can imagine an update will look like this:
- A new character
- 3 arms (signature arms of the new character)
- new stage (of the new character)
24 hours from now according to Opencritic
Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for.
Oh yeah, that makes sense. I'd be down with this. Wonder how soon they'll drop these, in addition to whatever other tweaks they make. Real excited to see how they do this.
raginrapids
Member
Thats fair, obviously a lot of people think both control types are viable. I'll be curious to see if others share my opinion when the game is in the wild.
I would also love to see a breakdown of % on control types used in competitive mode once it is out.
Twintelle in a classy dress. I'm in.
JStein0222
Member
Anyone (reviewers?) have info about the difference in load times between the game digitally and physically? Or if you have a physical cart, how are the load times? Just trying to decide whether to go digital or preorder with amazon prime's discount!
What would they even nerf tho lol
Conceivably, the only thing they could even mess around with without making a character's gimmick useless is mobility and maybe the active time for the charge of some characters like Mechanica and Twintelle or Mummy's health charge (which I think may move up at some point, to be honest, but it maybe depends on how 2v2 with him pans out).
Like, I think Mummy kinda sucks because Mechanica can do what he does better (assuming his only gimmicks are armor, health charge and moving really slow and being a big target), but, at the end of the day, this area is probably gonna be very player-dependent and I don't doubt that a good player can use Mummy and body other players because his reads and arms steering is good.
It's not like... using FANG and then going up against a Balrog in SFV where your character will forever be low tier because of Capcom's puzzling balance decisions and Balrog only needs to touch you like 2-3 times to win lol
I don't think that's in this game.
But yeah, a lot of the balancing might center around the arms, actually, like how long you stay in the disabled state for electric stun or whatever (don't even know if this is using an independent time from what happens when an arm is disabled or if it's possible to mash out of these states :v).
Pretty sure all reviewers got a digital code. Load times seem fine though.
Refreshment.01
Member
After witnessing the Testpunch and getting the impression of what seems to be the more optimal way for competitive play (traditional button input), i noticed how this contrasts with what developers claim about motion controls been the way to play. They said that at the unveil of ARMS and continue to say it in the latest interviews.
So of course as a developer participating in the marketing phase of your game, it is understandable that you will say what you think will bathe the game in the best light possible. However, i wonder if the claim, instead of been a lie it ends up been just a "white" innocent one. In the sense that what developer's might mean is that motion control is the intended way to play (conceptually speaking) and not necessarily the optimal one for competitive purposes.
So Drdogg: With the above into consideration, let's say for a second that ARMS just offered motion control input, will your views change even slightly? Specially the one that sees an advantage to the defensive player?
So of course as a developer participating in the marketing phase of your game, it is understandable that you will say what you think will bathe the game in the best light possible. However, i wonder if the claim, instead of been a lie it ends up been just a "white" innocent one. In the sense that what developer's might mean is that motion control is the intended way to play (conceptually speaking) and not necessarily the optimal one for competitive purposes.
So Drdogg: With the above into consideration, let's say for a second that ARMS just offered motion control input, will your views change even slightly? Specially the one that sees an advantage to the defensive player?
I think motion controls work fine in the game. It's actually easier to curve your punches with motion controls. I think you have a bit more precision in your controls on a Pro controller, but that's just a preference. I'm sure with practice you can get that same precision with motion.
That said, I think in the developer's eyes motion is the optimal way to play. I don't think they looked deep enough to realize just how defensive the game would be at higher levels of play. If both players are constantly dodging and attacking, curving your punches is key. But if I'm just waiting for you to punch, curving isn't anywhere near as significant.
tl;dr The way the developers probably assumed the game would be played makes motion optimal. Unfortunately, that's probably not how it's going to be played at higher levels.
Magnet_Man
Member
I'm not sure how "high level" it was but during the last Test Punch session I was getting paired with really good players, and I'm starting to understand what you've been talking about. Even throwing just one punch limits your movement so much while dashes can be used so frequently with practically no drawback. I didn't start getting wins against them again until I focused on dashing and evading while only punching when they got impatient and threw a punch making themselves vulnerable. At least at mid to close range, that was the case.
There may be the Punch > Grab > Block chain, but Punch vs Dash is something else entirely. First thing I'm doing is checking Vs. CPU with evasive setting. I just hope there isn't a hard-counter ARM since that would mean everyone would need to use it. I don't think it's a "problem" per se so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if this interaction is one of the first things that patches considers. Even a slight increase to cooldown after a dash before you can do another action would go a long way.
I went through most of the characters today so I can better understand my options against other characters. Characters with advanced movement options just have such a huge advantage, and I don't know if I see that changing.
I played quite a few matches as Master Mummy and Byte/Barq and you have to work so much harder to win. I was still winning (against press/Nintendo Treehouse), but the lack of movement options makes it considerably more difficult to win, especially when fighting against a Twintelle or Ribbon Girl.
Just food for thought, here's my super early, won't matter in two weeks, will probably change completely, why am I even bothering tier list.
S-Tier: Twintelle, Ribbon Girl
A-Tier: Spring Man
B-Tier: Kid Cobra, Mechanica
C-Tier: Master Mummy, Min Min, Ninjara
D-Tier: Byte & Barq
Helix isn't listed because I feel as though I need more time to really look into his movement and evasion options. If it works how I think it works, I would probably put him at B-Tier.
Also, this is assuming all Arms are equal since you can mix and match Arms as much as you like.
Quick Explanations:
Twintelle and Ribbon Girl - Best movement options in the game hands down. Twintelle can charge in the air, while Ribbon Girl can evade in the air better than any other character.
Spring Man - You can keep the deflect up 90% of the time, leaving very little room for opponents to get in an attack. Add to this the fact that he gets free charge at low health meaning he can focus even more on deflection instead of worrying about keeping a charge.
Kid Cobra - Best ground evasion, but you lose charge when used and attacking out of the added evasion isn't as instant as Twintelle and Ribbon Girl.
Mechanica - Super armor plus decent evasive options. She has really bad matchups against Twintelle and Spring Man because they're charged basically all the time.
Master Mummy - Super armor is nice, but he's way too slow with ground evasion. This forces you into the air where you're vulnerable or you have to turtle up. If you turtle you really need to use heavy Arms to just plow through attacks, but the heavier Arms are easier to evade forcing you to play even more defensively. You can heal, but it's extremely difficult to evade a throw at close range and just as hard keeping an opponent away.
Min Min - I should probably play with her more, but I don't feel as uninformed as I do when it comes to Helix. Deflect is nice, but it's only an aerial option. As soon as you hit the air, you have to deflect accurately or you're left vulnerable. On the ground she's average at best.
Ninjara - Same issues as Min Min. You need to be in the air to use the teleport effectively. This makes it very easy to punish once you know how the ability works. On the ground he's just a normal character unless you're blocking, but even then the teleport option is limited.
Byte & Barq - Very poor ground movement. Barq is difficult to position well. He always tries to move if you're directly behind him. Jumping on Barq is good, but can be difficult to use effectively because Barq doesn't move well enough for you to quickly jump on top of him. While Barq's punches can save you or add damage to a combo, Barq is also very easy to knock out. Short jump deflection is decent, but again, not easy to setup in a real match and the advantage isn't significant unless you have a life lead already, plus a well-timed punch will knock Barq out even with short hops in play.
If Nintendo nerfed the dash in some way, it would be interesting to see how the game evolves. At that point I'd have to think blocking becomes the go-to for defense, but you can only block so much. I think you block and watch for a throw to interrupt.
I played quite a few matches as Master Mummy and Byte/Barq and you have to work so much harder to win. I was still winning (against press/Nintendo Treehouse), but the lack of movement options makes it considerably more difficult to win, especially when fighting against a Twintelle or Ribbon Girl.
Just food for thought, here's my super early, won't matter in two weeks, will probably change completely, why am I even bothering tier list.
S-Tier: Twintelle, Ribbon Girl
A-Tier: Spring Man
B-Tier: Kid Cobra, Mechanica
C-Tier: Master Mummy, Min Min, Ninjara
D-Tier: Byte & Barq
Helix isn't listed because I feel as though I need more time to really look into his movement and evasion options. If it works how I think it works, I would probably put him at B-Tier.
Also, this is assuming all Arms are equal since you can mix and match Arms as much as you like.
Quick Explanations:
Twintelle and Ribbon Girl - Best movement options in the game hands down. Twintelle can charge in the air, while Ribbon Girl can evade in the air better than any other character.
Spring Man - You can keep the deflect up 90% of the time, leaving very little room for opponents to get in an attack. Add to this the fact that he gets free charge at low health meaning he can focus even more on deflection instead of worrying about keeping a charge.
Kid Cobra - Best ground evasion, but you lose charge when used and attacking out of the added evasion isn't as instant as Twintelle and Ribbon Girl.
Mechanica - Super armor plus decent evasive options. She has really bad matchups against Twintelle and Spring Man because they're charged basically all the time.
Master Mummy - Super armor is nice, but he's way too slow with ground evasion. This forces you into the air where you're vulnerable or you have to turtle up. If you turtle you really need to use heavy Arms to just plow through attacks, but the heavier Arms are easier to evade forcing you to play even more defensively. You can heal, but it's extremely difficult to evade a throw at close range and just as hard keeping an opponent away.
Min Min - I should probably play with her more, but I don't feel as uninformed as I do when it comes to Helix. Deflect is nice, but it's only an aerial option. As soon as you hit the air, you have to deflect accurately or you're left vulnerable. On the ground she's average at best.
Ninjara - Same issues as Min Min. You need to be in the air to use the teleport effectively. This makes it very easy to punish once you know how the ability works. On the ground he's just a normal character unless you're blocking, but even then the teleport option is limited.
Byte & Barq - Very poor ground movement. Barq is difficult to position well. He always tries to move if you're directly behind him. Jumping on Barq is good, but can be difficult to use effectively because Barq doesn't move well enough for you to quickly jump on top of him. While Barq's punches can save you or add damage to a combo, Barq is also very easy to knock out. Short jump deflection is decent, but again, not easy to setup in a real match and the advantage isn't significant unless you have a life lead already, plus a well-timed punch will knock Barq out even with short hops in play.
If Nintendo nerfed the dash in some way, it would be interesting to see how the game evolves. At that point I'd have to think blocking becomes the go-to for defense, but you can only block so much. I think you block and watch for a throw to interrupt.
donkey show
Member
Not that it'd make a big difference simply due to the lack of options out of it and general usefulness, but are you taking into account Min Min's ground back dash deflect?
I put it in the same category as Twintelle's slow down into a back dash. It gets you away, but you're basically just resetting the situation. Very difficult to capitalize on the deflect if you're moving backward while doing it.
I'm with ya! I found this reddit post that has some interesting observations about the two. There's some stuff I didn't know about, like Barq's charged punch.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ARMS/comments/6fb1pv/byte_and_barq_consistency_and_barqs_hidden/
Balance patches were somewhat frequent with Splatoon, and each one was smartly done. The game could've used one final one, though, after the advent of quick respawn super jump.
Hold shield to charge, bait a grab, then countered with a charged punch.
After several hits, my opponent stopped spamming teleport->grab lol.
Magnet_Man
Member
Grabjara's are pretty tense or twitchy so just keep to mid distance and then throw a punch. They'll teleport and invariably try to grab right then, so throwing another punch at that point will go through their grab and hit them.
Standing at a distance while guarding will make them come close, so just assume they'll try to grab when they jump and either punch through it or dash out of the way to punish.
You could also dash / air dash a lot because grabs are so slow they have a very hard time hitting a moving target like that. They'll get impatient and expose how bad they are at aiming punches making for easy punishes.
Soundslike
Neo Member
Sure, i can see the appeal of using non-motion control, and perhaps its easier to win with it, but i think the motion control adds a lot more fun to the game.
Less than one hour to reviews, anyone making a thread?
I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple dismissals of motion controls as a precise way to play the game competitively. Easy Allies on one of their podcasts yesterday said the same thing about separating pad and motion control players so pad doesn't have an advantage...
I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple dismissals of motion controls as a precise way to play the game competitively. Easy Allies on one of their podcasts yesterday said the same thing about separating pad and motion control players so pad doesn't have an advantage...
Almost all the Ninjaras I played had one movement pattern:
-Jump
-Teleport (which is actually an air dash)
If your timing and dash read is good enough (I mean... there's only two directions to guess for air dash since everyone apparently forgot you could air dash in 2 more directions or whatever), you can actually bop a Ninjara the moment he comes out of an air teleport if you air dash in the same direction as him.
(I'm currently not sure if it's actually possible to curve strong enough to air dash in opposite directions and then still hit someone out of air dash recovery... I mean, it might be, but I haven't tested this scenario too much)
Didn't even get a chance to throw something out a lot of the time since my arm was already where they were gonna appear :v
Soundslike
Neo Member
Not sure if the people in the pod have a review copy, one of them played the test punch for two sessions and will pick up the game. None of them are really hyped for it though.
It really didn't sound like that particular panel was very excited for it, but Huber is reviewing the game and as far as I know hasn't said a single thing about it leading up to the review. I would not expect a particularly good score from them on this one, but who knows.
James Scott
Banned
Reviews are in 20 minutes?
Wonder how that'll turn out. Not expecting too good, likely low 80s/high 70s.
Pretty sure the Nintendo Memories podcast at Easy Allies was a bit happier with the motion controls and all that but idk.
Wonder how that'll turn out. Not expecting too good, likely low 80s/high 70s.
Pretty sure the Nintendo Memories podcast at Easy Allies was a bit happier with the motion controls and all that but idk.
Reviews are tomorrow.
Reviews are in 20 minutes.