pixelation
Member
GAF will die without Off Topic. I bet you are a Trump supporter.
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The state of NeoGAF
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
- Status
GAF will die without Off Topic. I bet you are a Trump supporter.
ghostofsparta
Member
hi Junior member. Can you explain to me how off topic was toxic?
You mean wanting better sources than banned users who love to see this place go down?
Absolute trash indeed. I don't believe Evilore, since I have no actual sources. I also don't take everything someone says at face value just because she's a woman. Guess that makes me sexist or something.
Member here. When I said that saying all white people have to "prove" that they are allies when one day before a white person died in a crowd while protesting for PoC and other minorities is wrong I was called a bigot and that I have ulterior motives because I didn't agree with that BS and was piled on by like 10 others. OT was toxic af when it came to these issues. I don't even wonder why, it's only natural after Trump and all the racists coming out of the woodwork. OT was a reflection of actual social/racial tensions. That's ok. PIling on people because they want to bring nuance into a discussion isn't.
Compsiox
Banned
He admitted shit in the past.
MrMephistoX
Member
Glad its back but to truly redeem yourself go Ad Free until this all clears up. That, in my opinion, would go a long way to proving that youre trying to keep the community alive not your revenue stream while these allegations are fresh in everyones mind.
torre_avenue
Banned
Are you on the Discord?
JordanN
Banned
The division of the GAF community only benefits those on the extreme right and the extreme left.
Ultimately, everyone here has always been against bigoted opinions.
You could wish for games to be progressive without having to direct all your anger at white people.
You could also wish to just play your games without thinking minorities are out to get you.
This is something that could still be continued here. I know the emotions are still strong, but just look at how we're tearing each other. Again, who is benefiting from this but outsiders?
Ultimately, everyone here has always been against bigoted opinions.
You could wish for games to be progressive without having to direct all your anger at white people.
You could also wish to just play your games without thinking minorities are out to get you.
This is something that could still be continued here. I know the emotions are still strong, but just look at how we're tearing each other. Again, who is benefiting from this but outsiders?
Mahadev
Member
10 days ago Sibylus grabbed my dick without asking me. Hey guys, believe the victim, Sibylus is a sex offender.
I bet you don't like it when your stupid fucking "logic" is used against you, huh?
Aces&Eights
Member
It's a play on OT. I'm not my best when I have to go 48 hours without my GAF fix.
Also, strange how the victim said she just wants to move forward with her life from all this but against her wishes here it is getting dragged through the mud and reverberated as a means for people to feel better about themselves for taking a stand against... A message board? Come on, go do some real charity work for sexual abuse victims. There's many foundations out there that would be more than happy to accept new volunteers. I must warn you, it's more work than typing up an account suicide for recognition.
This is where I'm at.
Yep. Evilore pretty much taking a page out of Trump playbook. Attack accusers, get defensive, never really apologize, use power to silence criticism.
Pathetic.
Wow. Go fuck yourself.
vanillacupcakes
Member
Shit I got alot of good stuff and international news from OT! Bring that shit back dude. Have off topic and then let there be like no holds barred ot for politics. So they can all die there on their own time in a lake of fire. Both sides.
But fr #freeOT
Look Idk know the guy and I'm not giving him a free pass. If what she says is true, it's obv a shitty thing to do, but let's not forget she also admitted to having a physical relationship after. So in spite of this shitty thing, it wasn't shitty enough for her to reject his initial apology and then she felt comfy enough to consent to something mutual afterwards. To which he may have been creepy again and she took off for good, who knows?
But my point is, wow are there some angry people here and so many sure of themselves bc they read it on the internet. Again, MAYBE he is. Maybe he's not. Men lie women lie. But people calling for his head the same way people called for other's in the past and then turned out to be off base illustrate 2 things. 2 things that these crusaders on gaf are just as guilty as any other toxic community like the alt right. (which I'm not a fan of, to be clear)
1. they assume that they know everything/all the facts or that everything they've read or heard in their echo chambers are true.
2. When the truth comes to light, or there's strong hard evidence that is contrary to what they believe, people DONT KNOW how to admit they're wrong, much less apologize. Which Idk if there is yet in favor of either person. And if I'm wrong, shit I'll own up to it. But Instead most the time you get the fuck yous, tantrums etc. Or in this case, the account suicides and permaban requests.
Bitch please, disassociate yourself. Permaban yourself. Practice some restraint, go protest in real life, and practice what you preach. If the man is guilty as sin then fuck him too, but at the end of the day, if there are less politics, less whiners, and less witch hunts, then good riddance.
Besides, the only person he really owes an apology to is her.
Gaf is much more than the man. Or was.
But if all that negative shit migrates to another forum, I damn sure ain't following.
*Cue Jim Carrey who the hell are you talking too gif.
But fr #freeOT
Look Idk know the guy and I'm not giving him a free pass. If what she says is true, it's obv a shitty thing to do, but let's not forget she also admitted to having a physical relationship after. So in spite of this shitty thing, it wasn't shitty enough for her to reject his initial apology and then she felt comfy enough to consent to something mutual afterwards. To which he may have been creepy again and she took off for good, who knows?
But my point is, wow are there some angry people here and so many sure of themselves bc they read it on the internet. Again, MAYBE he is. Maybe he's not. Men lie women lie. But people calling for his head the same way people called for other's in the past and then turned out to be off base illustrate 2 things. 2 things that these crusaders on gaf are just as guilty as any other toxic community like the alt right. (which I'm not a fan of, to be clear)
1. they assume that they know everything/all the facts or that everything they've read or heard in their echo chambers are true.
2. When the truth comes to light, or there's strong hard evidence that is contrary to what they believe, people DONT KNOW how to admit they're wrong, much less apologize. Which Idk if there is yet in favor of either person. And if I'm wrong, shit I'll own up to it. But Instead most the time you get the fuck yous, tantrums etc. Or in this case, the account suicides and permaban requests.
Bitch please, disassociate yourself. Permaban yourself. Practice some restraint, go protest in real life, and practice what you preach. If the man is guilty as sin then fuck him too, but at the end of the day, if there are less politics, less whiners, and less witch hunts, then good riddance.
Besides, the only person he really owes an apology to is her.
Gaf is much more than the man. Or was.
But if all that negative shit migrates to another forum, I damn sure ain't following.
*Cue Jim Carrey who the hell are you talking too gif.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
"No one should ever see nudity unless they consent to it"
WTF is this? 1927 Mississippi?
Do you scream in terror when you see your own dick in the shower?
Miss me with that hyper conservative bullshit.
WTF is this? 1927 Mississippi?
Do you scream in terror when you see your own dick in the shower?
Miss me with that hyper conservative bullshit.
Portugeezer
Member
They choose to die on the tiniest hill known to man. Humans just like a bit of drama.
All this over the recent allegations? C'mon bruh, people already disliked Evilore for other reasons but at this point they are just joining in on the mass hysteria because it might feel amusing, and then if/when that replacement website doesn't take off they will regret it.
There are so many people here projecting their negativity on a extremely sensitive situation. So many already see Evil as guilty that if you didnt know any other details you'd think he committed rape.
I understand that the negativity if all you want to do is white knight for women given the recent uproar of people being outed for sexual harassment/abuse. Even if you disagree with my comment you are part of a problem that plagues society today. I read a bit of the details available on the accusation and all I could think was the feelings and opinions of others will all be subjective without more to go on. This doesnt dismiss the claim or feelings of the accuser, but we all should take the time to look at this from a different angle and accept that we may never know the whole truth. The details about Evil acting cold out of spite or as retaliation could easily be misinterpreted for someone acting feeling ashamed that they made the other party feel so uncomfortable. I'd imagine that if Evil acted friendly, as if he felt no lines were crossed, could come off as insensitive and/or "this guy is clueless how he made me feel and a potential problem to/for others". That being said, I dont know the specifics of the treatment the woman received but even if I did, who's to say that the actions would be interpreted the same for everyone? Peoples upbringings, environments, social circles, and much more come into play when interpreting another persons actions.
Heck, if Evils statement sound less offended at the accusation than there could easily be people who would take it to mean he's guilty of something.
To those shitty on him for the comments about the decision of other mods are just disappointing as well. While I'm sure some mods left for reasons other than what Evil stated, you shouldnt expect him to go over each mods decision for you to be able to understand his statement was to acknowledge them leaving without listing out individuals that could lead to people thinking some are getting called out etc.
GAF always had a hive-mind when it came to white knighting, whether it was a topic about trans-gendered people, gay, womanizers, and so on. The details rarely matter, if you arent in full support of those mentioned than you stay silent in fear that you'll be labelled a poor excuse for a human. Everyone wants to demand you be understanding and accepting (topics mentioned) but no one wants to accept any other views even if they are on the same side. I saw the person who corroborated the incident but if they are friends than it's not hard to believe they'd sympathize and view the incident the same way. It would be difficult to downplay a friend who is expressing they felt violated.
I'm sure Evil learned from this situation one way or another. If a portion of the accusations are true but the actions were without malicious intent but a poor approach to a social situation than use it as an opportunity to learn and grow from.
It's bullshit to denounce him as some sexual predator as is and I hope none of you have to go through a similar situation.
Nonetheless, super glad Gaf is back. As a backhanded slight, I wouldnt be surprised if most people who left because they see Evil as outright guilty dont hold the same expectations of themselves in other areas, like say, own a IPhone that is made by some kids in China no hate here, just using the white knight point.
I agree for the most part, but no reply will make everyone happy. His name was already dragged through the mud that taking the high road and knowing you didnt do what your accused of is difficult to do. Why wouldnt the accused (not just this situation but similar ones with no physical contact) use the same logic/understanding when bringing the subject to light? (not directed at you)
I understand that the negativity if all you want to do is white knight for women given the recent uproar of people being outed for sexual harassment/abuse. Even if you disagree with my comment you are part of a problem that plagues society today. I read a bit of the details available on the accusation and all I could think was the feelings and opinions of others will all be subjective without more to go on. This doesnt dismiss the claim or feelings of the accuser, but we all should take the time to look at this from a different angle and accept that we may never know the whole truth. The details about Evil acting cold out of spite or as retaliation could easily be misinterpreted for someone acting feeling ashamed that they made the other party feel so uncomfortable. I'd imagine that if Evil acted friendly, as if he felt no lines were crossed, could come off as insensitive and/or "this guy is clueless how he made me feel and a potential problem to/for others". That being said, I dont know the specifics of the treatment the woman received but even if I did, who's to say that the actions would be interpreted the same for everyone? Peoples upbringings, environments, social circles, and much more come into play when interpreting another persons actions.
Heck, if Evils statement sound less offended at the accusation than there could easily be people who would take it to mean he's guilty of something.
To those shitty on him for the comments about the decision of other mods are just disappointing as well. While I'm sure some mods left for reasons other than what Evil stated, you shouldnt expect him to go over each mods decision for you to be able to understand his statement was to acknowledge them leaving without listing out individuals that could lead to people thinking some are getting called out etc.
GAF always had a hive-mind when it came to white knighting, whether it was a topic about trans-gendered people, gay, womanizers, and so on. The details rarely matter, if you arent in full support of those mentioned than you stay silent in fear that you'll be labelled a poor excuse for a human. Everyone wants to demand you be understanding and accepting (topics mentioned) but no one wants to accept any other views even if they are on the same side. I saw the person who corroborated the incident but if they are friends than it's not hard to believe they'd sympathize and view the incident the same way. It would be difficult to downplay a friend who is expressing they felt violated.
I'm sure Evil learned from this situation one way or another. If a portion of the accusations are true but the actions were without malicious intent but a poor approach to a social situation than use it as an opportunity to learn and grow from.
It's bullshit to denounce him as some sexual predator as is and I hope none of you have to go through a similar situation.
Nonetheless, super glad Gaf is back. As a backhanded slight, I wouldnt be surprised if most people who left because they see Evil as outright guilty dont hold the same expectations of themselves in other areas, like say, own a IPhone that is made by some kids in China no hate here, just using the white knight point.
I agree for the most part, but no reply will make everyone happy. His name was already dragged through the mud that taking the high road and knowing you didnt do what your accused of is difficult to do. Why wouldnt the accused (not just this situation but similar ones with no physical contact) use the same logic/understanding when bringing the subject to light? (not directed at you)
I have a feeling this is going to fall onto totally deaf ears, but these are my thoughts on what needs to happen to this place going forward. I'm completely staying away from the human side of this situation, and simply talking about the forum itself.
There needs to be way more transparency, and way more communication. There needs to be an official stickies thread for questions/comments/complaints about the board, and there needed to be one years ago. If pride needs to be swallowed, then swallow it. There's been too much silencing of people's attempts to try to talk about what's going on around here, and this should be a simple concept, but the opinions of the customers should actually be listened to. Make one centralized thread for it, and don't punish people for saying things the management might not want to hear.
The community has to be welcoming to everyone outside of the extreme elements. Yes, that means conservatives, and republicans, and Trump supporters, and so on. I've seen tons of comments about how people love(d) GAF for being welcoming to women and minorities—and that's been a very important thing that shouldn't ever be given up. However, it can be welcoming to everyone else as well (again, outside of the extreme). The rule should be that people should be civil to one another, and if they are, then let them be here. It got to a point where conversations became the enemy here, and then not so long ago it became that moderates were the new enemy, and promised to soon be that the "not left enough" would be the new enemy. Stop letting any particular groups dictate the conversation on here, and stop the dog piling that occurs due to "wrongthink". Also, no more protected members. It's been clear that certain posters have been "favorites" of the mods and been allowed to get away with a whole lot more than other users could. Cut that shit out.
Cut it out with the passive aggressive mods. Stop with the shit user tags, stop with the smarmy ban messages. It got to the point where mods because like emperors flaunting their power from high above the peons, and that's unacceptable. However, shadow mods are not the answer. Modbot is bullshit, and threads should never be closed with smart quips from a faceless entity. If Modbot needs to be used, then have the balls to sign the name of who used it in that instance. Also, mods should not be decided when the conversation in a thread is "done" outside of obvious circumstances. Tons of great discussions in threads have been prematurely killed just because some mod didn't personally find it worthwhile. And for god's sake, don't allow any more deification of mods—a situation like Bish should never, ever happen again.
Have a clear and fleshed out list of rules, and if someone does something that's not on the rules list, don't ban them for it. That's bullshit. It's been impossible at times to know what would and wouldn't get you banned around here unless you happened to see a thread where a new rule was announced. And, again, ban messages should actually be clear about why the person was banned and what they did wrong, and not the chance for a mod to act like they're an action hero using a one-liner before taking out a bad guy.
Make the forums fun again. Have clear differences in expectations between official threads and casual ones. I totally think that OTs should be free from derailment and (unjustified) nonsense and trolling and all of that, but easy up a little bit in other threads. Let people be silly sometimes. Let the jokes happen, and require that people not be so thin-skinned that even the most innocent of joking around is blow up into some offense. Bring back those couple of smilies that existed years ago. Let threads like "Hot Men/Women" exist again so long as boundaries aren't pushed too far. Don't just paint over the entire forum with the exact same expectations for every single thread. And make "if you don't like the thread, don't read it" an expected part of using GAF. Having certain people shit up threads just because they don't like the subject has gotten out of control. Every thread doesn't have to be for everyone.
Speaking on that, keep politics out of most threads. Allow for threads to specifically focus on and discuss the politics of games or developers or publishers or genres or whatever—that should absolutely exist—but keep the politics out of threads where they don't belong. I understand people might not like the dev/narrative behind The Last Night or the fact that JonTron was in Hat in Time, but that conversation has no place in most threads about both of those games.
Getting rid of Off Topic is messy. At the very least, it should exist but be locked from any further posting. There's a lot lot of threads in there that were important to a lot of people, and just taking that all away from everyone isn't the right thing to do. Also, the policy of completely scrubbing certain conversations or topics instead of dealing with them head-on is something that absolutely needs to stop, but I have zero faith ever would.
Finally, banning anyone today other than those who directly ask to be permabanned is really, really not a good look. If NeoGAF is to survive, it'll settle down–but the venting that's happening today needs to happen, and needs to be allowed.
Those are my thoughts as someone who isn't sure if this is a place I can still support or not. But—again, personal human aspects aside—I think there is a chance to put changes in place that can make this place change for the better going forward for those who do stick around, and those who join in the coming days.
There needs to be way more transparency, and way more communication. There needs to be an official stickies thread for questions/comments/complaints about the board, and there needed to be one years ago. If pride needs to be swallowed, then swallow it. There's been too much silencing of people's attempts to try to talk about what's going on around here, and this should be a simple concept, but the opinions of the customers should actually be listened to. Make one centralized thread for it, and don't punish people for saying things the management might not want to hear.
The community has to be welcoming to everyone outside of the extreme elements. Yes, that means conservatives, and republicans, and Trump supporters, and so on. I've seen tons of comments about how people love(d) GAF for being welcoming to women and minorities—and that's been a very important thing that shouldn't ever be given up. However, it can be welcoming to everyone else as well (again, outside of the extreme). The rule should be that people should be civil to one another, and if they are, then let them be here. It got to a point where conversations became the enemy here, and then not so long ago it became that moderates were the new enemy, and promised to soon be that the "not left enough" would be the new enemy. Stop letting any particular groups dictate the conversation on here, and stop the dog piling that occurs due to "wrongthink". Also, no more protected members. It's been clear that certain posters have been "favorites" of the mods and been allowed to get away with a whole lot more than other users could. Cut that shit out.
Cut it out with the passive aggressive mods. Stop with the shit user tags, stop with the smarmy ban messages. It got to the point where mods because like emperors flaunting their power from high above the peons, and that's unacceptable. However, shadow mods are not the answer. Modbot is bullshit, and threads should never be closed with smart quips from a faceless entity. If Modbot needs to be used, then have the balls to sign the name of who used it in that instance. Also, mods should not be decided when the conversation in a thread is "done" outside of obvious circumstances. Tons of great discussions in threads have been prematurely killed just because some mod didn't personally find it worthwhile. And for god's sake, don't allow any more deification of mods—a situation like Bish should never, ever happen again.
Have a clear and fleshed out list of rules, and if someone does something that's not on the rules list, don't ban them for it. That's bullshit. It's been impossible at times to know what would and wouldn't get you banned around here unless you happened to see a thread where a new rule was announced. And, again, ban messages should actually be clear about why the person was banned and what they did wrong, and not the chance for a mod to act like they're an action hero using a one-liner before taking out a bad guy.
Make the forums fun again. Have clear differences in expectations between official threads and casual ones. I totally think that OTs should be free from derailment and (unjustified) nonsense and trolling and all of that, but easy up a little bit in other threads. Let people be silly sometimes. Let the jokes happen, and require that people not be so thin-skinned that even the most innocent of joking around is blow up into some offense. Bring back those couple of smilies that existed years ago. Let threads like "Hot Men/Women" exist again so long as boundaries aren't pushed too far. Don't just paint over the entire forum with the exact same expectations for every single thread. And make "if you don't like the thread, don't read it" an expected part of using GAF. Having certain people shit up threads just because they don't like the subject has gotten out of control. Every thread doesn't have to be for everyone.
Speaking on that, keep politics out of most threads. Allow for threads to specifically focus on and discuss the politics of games or developers or publishers or genres or whatever—that should absolutely exist—but keep the politics out of threads where they don't belong. I understand people might not like the dev/narrative behind The Last Night or the fact that JonTron was in Hat in Time, but that conversation has no place in most threads about both of those games.
Getting rid of Off Topic is messy. At the very least, it should exist but be locked from any further posting. There's a lot lot of threads in there that were important to a lot of people, and just taking that all away from everyone isn't the right thing to do. Also, the policy of completely scrubbing certain conversations or topics instead of dealing with them head-on is something that absolutely needs to stop, but I have zero faith ever would.
Finally, banning anyone today other than those who directly ask to be permabanned is really, really not a good look. If NeoGAF is to survive, it'll settle down–but the venting that's happening today needs to happen, and needs to be allowed.
Those are my thoughts as someone who isn't sure if this is a place I can still support or not. But—again, personal human aspects aside—I think there is a chance to put changes in place that can make this place change for the better going forward for those who do stick around, and those who join in the coming days.
Iced Arcade
Member
Almost got worried I would have to go back to IGN.
I'm not even all the familiar with this drama that went down. I'm not one to follow the he say she say.
I'm not even all the familiar with this drama that went down. I'm not one to follow the he say she say.
KanameYuuki
Member
Seriously that place was the biggest reason why the whole internet has so much hate for this forum, you know it is a good place when you don't even feel like going there afraid that the tiniest little thing would get you a perma ban, not just those regular posters were the worst, lots of the mods used their power to maximize as possible how much of an echo chamber it was
Vicetrailia
Member
Changing OT is a terrible mistake.
what better source than evilore himself on his own fucking site
I would link you to it but half the forum got nuked
you can interpret his actions however you want but you can't deny these things happen.
MrToast
Member
If you're going to educate me, why don't you educate me on how you jumped to this conclusion?
LQX
Member
EvilLore you need to open the OT. It was not and is not the problem. Trying not foster honest and genuine discussion from all sides in regards to serious topics like this one is and was the problem. And closing down the OT highlights that. And not being given much leeway to explain your side of things is a perfect example of that.
In regards to the most recent allegation against EvilLore. I do not know what to make of them. It is such a crass and low thing to say "...well, at-least he did not rape her" but I think it is almost equally crass to pretend as if that was the case and feel that is how some are leveraging their outrage. And I'm so conflicted I see holes in both their stories but at the same time I wonder if I'm not outraged enough so I wish we could genuinely and openly discuss it in a off topic discussion. I want understanding.
And you have to talk about this EvilLore, and we as a community should be able to talk this and without repercussions. Not saying allow trolling but this site fostered a mentality that shit like what you are accused of does not fly so we cant now just overlook it. And wish you would see that is best way to get past this...or try to.
That said, I'm not going to pretend I'm outraged to the point of leaving the site as I think NeoGAF is more than EvilLore. I cant and wont condemn the whole site based on his actions as there is so much good about this site as well as so many good people.
In regards to the most recent allegation against EvilLore. I do not know what to make of them. It is such a crass and low thing to say "...well, at-least he did not rape her" but I think it is almost equally crass to pretend as if that was the case and feel that is how some are leveraging their outrage. And I'm so conflicted I see holes in both their stories but at the same time I wonder if I'm not outraged enough so I wish we could genuinely and openly discuss it in a off topic discussion. I want understanding.
And you have to talk about this EvilLore, and we as a community should be able to talk this and without repercussions. Not saying allow trolling but this site fostered a mentality that shit like what you are accused of does not fly so we cant now just overlook it. And wish you would see that is best way to get past this...or try to.
That said, I'm not going to pretend I'm outraged to the point of leaving the site as I think NeoGAF is more than EvilLore. I cant and wont condemn the whole site based on his actions as there is so much good about this site as well as so many good people.
This shit is exactly the problem that was wrong with OT and the reason it needs to be purged or cleaned. Calling anybody who disagrees with even a little bit of what you're saying a Trump supporter or a Nazi sympathizer is bullshit.
Neogaf was a thing before OT became a monster
Corronchilejano
Member
"Come back to work but don't make any money"
Mushroomer25
Member
The NeoGAF you knew isn't back. This is the NeoGAF explicitly for people who are willing to tolerate this power move. With a moderation staff that follows suit.
Forums are communities, and the communtiy that existed a week ago is permanently disbanded. Pockets will settle and reform elsewhere, but they'll never be brought together quite the way they were.
It is gone because EvilLore failed to respond in a timely or appropriate manner to severe accusations that made a major contingent of this site felt they could no longer support him.
Sweet Bellic
Member
Unconditionally? Without any consideration of the evidence or the accused's account of events? I'm generally inclined to give the accuser the benefit of the doubt too, especially when the accused has a pattern or history of similar accusations, but blanket statements like these discourage critical thinking and promote prejudice. I doubt you would be singing this tune if you found yourself publicly accused of sexual misconduct.
Dick Justice
Banned
This whole shitshow has exposed a lot of posters around here for the wormy little fucks that they are. Never thought I'd see the day where I could equate GAF with the likes of The_Donald and 4chan. Prioritizing your videogames over the fact that the owner of the site is an actual rapist piece of shit who pulled excuse after excuse from his rancid asshole, even going so far as to blame the victim.
Keep brown-nosing, you disgusting cunts.
Keep brown-nosing, you disgusting cunts.
Spaced Harrier
Member
Its impressive how you made it worse.
What do you be thinking?
What do you be thinking?
Uno Venova
Banned
Cramoss
Member
This community was already damaged
I'm just here for the videogames. People like you are the reason I don't give a shit about anything else here that isn't videogames. I just can't take you seriously, man.
wat? lol, as much as I was some normalcy around here, the people who are left won't exactly be the cream of the crop.
Because its the attitude myself and many others got when games featuring Jontron were talked about.
So in return i have to just assume anybody buying into evilore's bullshit must also support harassment. Thats how this forum worked for as long as ive been here.
Doesnt feel good does it?
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