Melchiah
Member
Weird. We get our tax returns just before xmas.
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PS4 Rumors , APU code named 'Liverpool' Radeon HD 7970 GPU Steamroller CPU 16GB Flash
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Weird. We get our tax returns just before xmas.
Except every PS3 game Sony has revealed is scheduled for between now and like Q1 next year, besides The Last Guardian everything falls silent for Sony and MS 4 months into next year.
Seems pretty evident to me unless something changes.
That's not true, there's no launch window for TLoU, TLG (as you mentioned), Puppeteer or Rain. I bet Beyond slips too.
I get my W-2's around Jan, electronically/digitally. I file by feb, get my state/fed return sometime between feb/march.
April 16/17 is Filing Deadline.
I wish I got my returns just before xmas.
Spring is usually my own personal xmas.
shinra-bansho
Member
A PSN game and a Move game pretty much have zero implication on the PS4 launch date.
While TLoU, TLG and Beyond are clearly the PS3's last hurrah.
The writing seems on the wall for a late 2013 release - barring some sort of production issue.
Delaying until 2014 would mean ceding a Holiday to the X720 and two Holidays to the Wii U. It would frankly be disastrous from a commercial standpoint.
SwimmingwithChickenz
Banned
What are these exact specs that your "source" is saying about the PS4? Can you list some actual specifics?
bgassassin
Member
jeff_rigby
Banned
The OP says rumors and maybe "leaks", but which are true?
If you build your speculation on rumors, it's a house of cards and with one wrong rumor or "troll" used in building your speculation, it can totally collapse. For example; the OP has a quote that the Video output will be 1080P with only a HDMI port; this is obviously "logically" wrong.
The AMD GPUs include video output hardware and they use Display Port that can be converted to HDMI. Display Port can support 4K resolution, multiple monitors, directly drive LCD panels including provide power which will be needed for head mounted glasses and more. The Xbox 720 powerpoint listed Display Port and some of it's possible outputs for the Xbox 720.
So Everyone going AMD GPUs is probably using AMD's display port video output. To believe Sony would strip out the AMD video out and not support 4K is deluded or trolling. So should we believe the OP in it's entirety? NO, but even trolls put known or accepted facts into a post to make them believable. In this case I believe 2 gigs maybe 4 but it's not locked as GDDR5 as other rumors have DDR4 being used and in those rumors PS4 is being delayed till 1st quarter 2014 because they want to include stacking and custom designs for DDR4 to support Fusion or Intel CPU/GPU which require very high bandwidth and short traces on motherboards. Which rumor do you believe? This might apply to the Xbox 720 also as rumors have them using a nearly identical Jaguar/GPU core which should use the same memory interface.
Lots of very bright people with more insider information are speculating about next generation and many are getting it wrong. I'm also speculating and for sure some of what I post can be wrong. For example:
Charlie at SemiAccurate predicted the PS4 would use the Intel GPU - Larrabee GPU then early this year had a news article stating that the Xbox 720 main silicon "Oban" taped out and started production Dec 2011 with 10,000 SOI wafers @ 32nm and that he was 99% certain that it was a IBM Power ISA platform. Both above are likely wrong but were good speculation at the time.
Oban as a Xbox 360 refresh not Xbox 720 was first proposed in the Simi Accurate forum by East of Eastside but there was no support for this. I also had issues with the Xbox 720 being 32nm and too early for a anything but a 6000 series GPU. Between 6000 to 7000 the 7000 is 1.6 times as efficient and between 7000 to 8000 another 1.2 times. So using 32nm and giving up nearly 100% (Double) the performance increase at no additional cost just to be 6 months to a year earlier than PS4 did not make sense.
I found a Linkedin profile for a IBM employee that was assigned to work on game consoles. In it work done and completed for a 32nm Xbox 360 game console was mentioned. Since the last Xbox 360 refresh was the 360S @ 45nm this proved a refresh @ 32nm was coming this year and supported Oban was a Xbox 360 refresh if the rest of Charlies post was accurate. There was also that the Xbox powerpoint had a Xbox 361 refresh scheduled for 2012 also.
So SUPPORTED speculation not possible when Charlie made his guess has ME guessing that a Xbox 360 refresh is Oban and coming this season. From here, speculation gets wilder with more assumptions.
1) From only a 2 year old Xbox 720 powerpoint (Edit: lead time from initial proposal to build is min 1.5 years so comments I've heard about "in 2 years it could have changed" don't take this into account. 9/2010 (powerpoint document) and 12/2011 tapeout does not give enough time for a redesign.) the Xbox 361 has HDMI pass-thru which implies low power modes. This requires a more modern GPU and logic to control the CPUs power and clock speeds as well as GPU power. This is supported by newer AMD GPUs but not the CPU and GPU @ 45nm in the Xbox 360S that hardware emulated the even older Xbox 360 CPU and GPU.
2) Within 18 months power modes will be required by California for Game Consoles. So either a total redesign occurs for both PS3 and Xbox 360 this 2012 refresh @32nm or at the next refresh for 22nm (both Xbox 360 and PS3 are getting a refresh this year and I guessed that a month ago before the FCC listing or the Xbox 720 powerpoint which I also found and posted to NeoGAF). I'm not trying to boast but when your attacked it's justified to bring up that you do the work to support your speculation.
For the 360 to support HDMI pass-thru and power modes a major rewrite for the OS is required. It will require newer CPU, GPU and support chips. For instance, memory will require some method to keep it active with power at all times to support standby and at least one CPU active and monitoring the HDMI video stream to intercept key parts of the data stream included in video and to monitor for a start command from keyboard or possibly voice recognition.
And another level of speculation builds on the above is that it will be easier this time to software emulate GPU and support chips rather than try to hardware emulate like they did with the Xbox 360S.
Building on that, PS3 refresh if it has a depth camera and HDMI pass-thru will likely do the same with the 1PPU3SPU multi-processor architecture mentioned in the Sony 2010 patent (Digitimes PS4 rumor 6/2011 and Sony depth camera patent Feb 2012).
Building on that since both are emulating and a Xbox 360 refresh hardware only needs to add 6 SPUs to emulate a PS3 why don't they share the same core Silicon to reduce costs.
It's a house of cards with everything built on multiple levels of speculation. The further you go in the chain the higher the probability of my being wrong. For instance both Xbox 720 and PS4 need to be using AMD X86 and GPUs/support chips and both would want to support BC to support parts of my speculation.
Also in the Linkedin IBM employee post is this; "- Led an international team to complete the design hardware characterization on a 32nm project." This must be Oban @ 32nm and for the first time (remember this employee did primarily game console and WiiU is at 45nm) is an "International Team" and Oban besides being a Scotch from the Oban region of the UK is a large blank oblong Japanese Gold coin. Yes I know very weak to support such a large speculation but it's all we have.
The above is an example of my guessing which may be more accurate than professionals only because I waited for information to support my speculation contrary to the opinion that I wildly speculate with no support.
1) microsoft-sony.com
2) digitimes PS4 rumor (Must be a PS3 as it's to be released 2012)
3) Xbox 720 powerpoint Xbox 361 if Oban 12/2011 was already in the pipeline when the powerpoint was made 9/2010
4) This patent and the timing in both filing and publishing XTV game support for Commercials on TV.
5) Both ps3 and Xbox 360 refresh must have a price reduction built in to allow a price reduction when the PS4 and Xbox 720 are released. This is already possible for the Xbox 360 but the PS3 would NEED a massive redesign to put both CPU and GPU on the same silicon.
6) Sony 2010 1PPU4SPU patent
7) Elizabeth Gerhard's Projects (IBM employee) and an International project involving the Xbox 360 @ 32nm and NO design work for a PS3 refresh at 32nm
8) Oban = large blank Japanese Coin => is Oban for both the PS3 and Xbox 361 (Microsoft making the chip for Sony)
9) Both having browsers at the same time for the first time ever and both have a refresh at the same time for the first time ever
10) Sony depth camera patent (Timing, 9/2011 & again 2/2012)
11) Khronos Openmax 1.2 (Supports Gstreamer-openmax and camera, second Khronos Pdf mentioning Augmented Reality starting Sept 2012 leveraging the browser libraries
Read #10 above and then look at the following picture and the description of the Bat in the Xbox 720 powerpoint.
Many of the accessories can be used with the PS3, PS4, Xbox 720 using blu-tooth but not with the Xbox 360, at least the pre 2012 refresh. Some standard for accessories is likely.
If ms launch Q4 2013, I really don't see Sony aiming for a Q1 2014 launch for themselves, they will lose the xmas trade, so it wouldn't make sense. The only reason for aiming for a Q1 2014 launch would be that they have to wait for the tech to be ready.
A Q2 2014 launch from Sony would give ms a 6 or 7 month head start, while that wouldn't be insurmountable it's certainly wouldn't be ideal, and is a long enough gap to see some jump ship.
I agree that a good launch is vital, but that applies whenever the launch date is.
Sony is banking on third parties steam rolling next year. Currently we have-
1. Bioshock Infinite
2. GTA V
3. The Last of Us
4. God of War Ascenscion
5. Battlefield 4
6. The annual COD
As well as a slew of other titles I'm not remembering. 2014 for both MS and Sony would be financially a smarter decision. Tech would mature for more powerful parts OR component cost would go down on target specs.
1. Bioshock Infinite
2. GTA V
3. The Last of Us
4. God of War Ascenscion
5. Battlefield 4
6. The annual COD
As well as a slew of other titles I'm not remembering. 2014 for both MS and Sony would be financially a smarter decision. Tech would mature for more powerful parts OR component cost would go down on target specs.
Graphics Horse
Member
Would be grateful for a link to the California info. All I can find is something which is still in consultation until next year, and heavily opposed.
http://www.mercurynews.com/business...ely-set-energy-standards-consumer-electronics
jeff_rigby
Banned
Yours is the best I've seen. I do make the assumption that the commission will pass the committee recommendations just like they did the TV power modes in 2009 over Sony objections. Sony wrote a letter to the commission objecting to the proposed ruling but it passed anyway.
From only a 2 year old Xbox 720 powerpoint (Edit: lead time from initial proposal to build is min 1.5 years so comments I've heard about "in 2 years it could have changed" don't take this into account. 9/2010 (powerpoint document) and 12/2011 tapeout does not give enough time for a redesign.) the Xbox 361 has HDMI pass-thru which implies low power modes. So if the Xbox powerpoint is real a Xbox 361 refresh with HDMI pass-thru is coming soon. Set aside my speculation, do you think Sony would not support the same HDMI pass-thru in a 2012 PS3 refresh. Remember the Digitimes PS4 rumor has 10 million sold the first year.
jeff_rigby
Banned
There is always room for a difference of opinion. Some of the comments do read like there are motives other than an honest difference of opinion. Anyway I'd rather have egg on my face rather than rotten eggs so I'll stop here.
I kinda admire the Mod who changed the title of the New PS3 Model (CECH-4000) Registered on FCC (Jeff_Rigby alert) thread. IF I'm wrong it's a warning against my wild speculation, if I'm right its notice to take it seriously. Obviously the Mod disagreed with my position.
Developers would not have or need access to this 2012 refresh unless there are differences that are going to be allowed to be exploited. QA tests are being done inside Sony UK on the new PS3 4000 chassis (from a comment by a NeoGAF poster just before the FCC announcement).
A new PS3 chassis with new OS firmware could reset security for a new design. Again from the PS3 6/2010 security crack a redesign with new security would occur at the earliest at this refresh (PS3 3000 chassis already in production and released 6/2011). PS3 4000 chassis had to be in production sometime early this year to build stocks same as the Xbox 361 that taped out 12/2011. (This only if my assumption of a 1.5 year lead time is accurate.)
Graphics Horse
Member
No I don't think the PS3 refresh would have an hdmi passthrough as there was no sign of it in the pictures we saw.
I do hope next generation machines will be more efficient when running non-game tasks in the future, as one of the Californian things was proposing. (Can't find it now, but the 2014 numbers were something like 70watts for a paused state, 50watts for multimedia, not much below what the latest PS3 draws now.)
But if the worst came to the worst, surely Sony would be better of not shipping the PS3 to California in 2014 instead of a complete redesign of hardware. If there's still enough U.S. demand for the PS3 in 2014, it could be picked up in neighbouring states, which apparently happened with energy hogging TVs!
jeff_rigby
Banned
Valid point and my speculation is only possible if the pictures are fake. There were two points I made about the pictures no one has answered. Sony does not use white or paper labels, it's plastic matching the case color (grey) with black writing and TINY, attempting to almost hide the label. I could be wrong here as I've only seen a few Sony models. My camera is the same. Also the Far pictures of the case do not show the label as seen in the closeup. As you noticed, there is no picture of the right side of the case which would be in a profession link with all sides of the PS3 4000 chassis. Several people have called it an obvious photoshop.
From the Xbox 720 powerpoint I assume these are tier 2 requirements:
Multiple Power States
Full Power
Media Playback
Idle
Streaming (I assume DVR background and HDMI pass-thru standby)
Standby
ENERGY STAR Version 1.0 Draft 2 Game Console Performance Requirements
Stakeholder Comment Summary (Distributed July 26, 2012)
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=revisions.game_console_spec
2.2 Excluded Products
2.2.1 The following products are not eligible for EPA recognition under the EPA Game Console
Recognition Program:
i. Portable Game Consoles.
ii. Game consoles brought to market prior to January 1, 2011.
From the above I think the 2012 refreshes have to comply with the new 3rd tier rules.
Auto power off
Standby power .5W
Active navigation menu 35W
Active streaming Media 45W
The PS3 3000 chassis consumes
Standby .5W
Active Navigation Menu 61 watts
So the PS3 4000 chassis to voluntary comply with the Energy Star rating has to cut XMB Menu power consumption from 61 watts to 35 watts or less
Edit: (Thanks bigtroyjon) US EPA Game console voluntary compliance for the energy star rating. How important is this that they comply? California to set must comply within 18 months.
bgassassin
Member
He asked about the specs which are contained in the OP. Not sure what the rest of your post after this sentence had to do with that.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Not really targeted at your post, just a place to jump into the thread.
Energy Star EPA sponsored Voluntary compliance standards Three tiers starting with tier 1 2010
Notice the third tier of Game Console Energy Star specs went into effect July 1 2012. FCC filing for the PS3 4000 chassis July 2012.
Stakeholders (game console manufacturers that are part of the Energy Star rating system) commented that earlier models may not meet performance requirements. This means there was a consensus arrived at for newer models and they all complied. Only if Sony is voluntarily a member "stakeholder" would this apply to the PS3 4000 chassis. There are only 3 game console platforms, we know WiiU should comply and the wording is plural. Sill doesn't confirm the PS3 4000 chassis but either PS3, Xbox 360 or both.
Tier 3 standards Game Console Energy Star Requirements
Auto power off
Standby power .5W
Active navigation menu 35W
Active streaming Media 45W
The PS3 3000 chassis consumes
Standby .5W
Active Navigation Menu 61 watts
Playing game 72-79 watts
Xbox 360S Valhalla
Standby
67 watts at the dashboard
80 watts while gaming.
Both Xbox 360 and PS3 would have to drop from about 60 watts to 35 watts for Active Navigation Menu. That is a dramatic drop that would require a total redesign with GPU Zero power (AMD's Zero power for GPU is 5 watts and only supported by a more modern GPU than in the Xbox 360S and for sure RSX) and a partial shutdown of some of the CPUs (Cell can't partially shutdown but individual 1PPU3SPU CPU packages could).
For the first time (Couldn't comply with second tier and were exempted " game consoles brought to market prior to January 1, 2011 are excluded from the scope of the performance requirements") we might see the PS3 4000 chassis comply with Energy Star for game consoles. Since we are going to see the Xbox 361 and PS3 4000 chassis sold to casual gamers and XTV-IPTV users, Energy Star would be a sales necessity or rather not being Energy Star rated when WiiU complies would be a serious disadvantage.
For the Xbox 361 I believe coming this season, HDMI pass-thru already implies power modes but those multi-media "Set Top Box" power modes were exempted by request from stakeholders; reasoning was the multiple features made a "standard" for power draw too difficult to calculate. With hardware that can comply with Energy Star Tier 3 low power modes it should also be possible to support low power modes for HDMI pass-thru.
The 16 gig Flash drive in the PS3 4000 chassis and rumored in the PS4 is too large for just a special place for patches.
I suspect that it's used as a cache for the OS and background tasks to allow the Hard Disk to sleep reducing power during; "Active navigation menu 35W".http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38657020&postcount=1 said:
The above is another point, both PS4 and PS3 4000 chassis have 16 gig SSD memory which is mentioned as part of AMDs building blocks to be included in SoCs. This would be necessasary as mentioned above to comply with Energy Star power modes, the OS would have to manage this turning on and off the hard disk as needed.
bigtroyjon
Member
Energy Star isn't forcing them to do anything. It's mostly a marketing thing.
"Our Fridge is Energy Star rated at the highest level. Buy it to save on electricity."
"Our Fridge is Energy Star rated at the highest level. Buy it to save on electricity."
systemfehler
Member
So any big revelations after the first Hot Chips information? Neither Jaguar nor Steamroller seem to bring anything surprising with them and I certainly don't count the secrecy about clock speeds as something positive.
If Sony really goes with a weak CPU I do hope this is to make "room" (heat, price, size) for a hefty GPU.
If Sony really goes with a weak CPU I do hope this is to make "room" (heat, price, size) for a hefty GPU.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Best guess it that it's not going to look like any CPU/GPU we have seen before. It's probably going to be a very large 2.5D assembled package that will allow for a larger than normal contact with a heat sink.
Something like this can be speculated with the Oban name for a PPC/AMD GPU made @32nm for Microsoft=> large Japanese oblong blank gold coin. Oban can either be that or a region in the UK or a Scotch named for that region. If it's a UK region then the naming convention adopted by "Liverpool" for the rumored PS4 SoC and Oban for the Microsoft chip implies a complete GPU and support chips AMD design with PPC processors like the AMD A6 but with PPC processors (32nm SOI also). At 32nm it's not the Xbox 720.
Point was that normal rules in contact area and heat dissipation with standard sized packages won't apply.
Disregard the price for a moment (as there is a hefty profit margin on each unit): After looking at this, it makes me wonder why is still a unrealistic deal to have at least 4GB GDDR5 at current chip density? It's like we're running in circles with regards "ifs" and "buts" all the while new products with 1/3rd the surface area of PS3's (60GB) motherboard displaying what was previously thought impossible or cost prohibitive.
Also, care to guess if our next games will end up looking like this?
phosphor112
Banned
Are there archives of the events?
bgassassin
Member
You sure you want to use a $700 card as support for that notion? That thing has 24 chips. Looks like it runs in clam shell mode so they didn't have to use a larger bus. Still that's a PCB dedicated only to the GPU, not a full motherboard. And at 4GB you're still looking at 16 chips. And what other products are you referring to?
And there's no other info with that video to say what it took to run that demo. So personally I can't make a guess on that.
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
You guys think the new PS3 portal is a hint of what we can expect from the PS4's UI?
http://ps3.us.playstation.com/beta/index.html
Im viewing it on my PS3 and it fits the whole screen like a dashboard.
I think this would be a good direction. It advertises alot of different games, like Xbox LIVE, and that could mean more game sales for PS3. I think one of the reasons PS3 games don't sell as much 360 is that nobody knows about it. On 360, when you turn on the system every game that out and going to be released is advertised in some way.
The way they have the sections setup for each XMB icon is exactly the way i pictured it being if sony was to go the dashboard advertisement route like Xbox.
http://ps3.us.playstation.com/beta/index.html
Im viewing it on my PS3 and it fits the whole screen like a dashboard.
I think this would be a good direction. It advertises alot of different games, like Xbox LIVE, and that could mean more game sales for PS3. I think one of the reasons PS3 games don't sell as much 360 is that nobody knows about it. On 360, when you turn on the system every game that out and going to be released is advertised in some way.
The way they have the sections setup for each XMB icon is exactly the way i pictured it being if sony was to go the dashboard advertisement route like Xbox.
Some info about AMD steamroller which is expected to be powering Sony's next gen playstation
Complete article at First Details about steamroller
sorry if it has already been posted
Complete article at First Details about steamroller
sorry if it has already been posted
phosphor112
Banned
Oh shit... does that mean you can have multiple endian types in an architecture!?
EDIT: Wait.. I think I'm just stupid... I'm gonna have to sit down and read this (instead of watch tv and skim).
EDIT: Wait.. I think I'm just stupid... I'm gonna have to sit down and read this (instead of watch tv and skim).
bgassassin
Member
I guess I forgot to add my response to the other post. It could also be they are looking to keep the costs down as much as possible.
SniperHunter
Banned
Was that CG or DX11? As an Ace Combat fan, that video made me say wow!
jeff_rigby
Banned
"Valid", my opinion is that the "specs" that are leaking from Developers are developer platform specs not final SoC. There are a number of leaks that you have to filter through what seems reasonable to come to what one thinks is "Valid" but in the filtering we can be putting our own spin on leaks.
For instance the CPU I think (from 2 leaks) will be 2 packages of 4 Jaguar CPUs in each package with 2 meg L2 cache each not fewer more powerful horribly hot desktop CPUs that are in developer platforms.
SoC with 2.5D assembly using custom external memory or discrete CPU and GPU using GDDR5 (I think SoC)
GDDR5 vs DDR4 (I think DDR4, bgassassin was told GDDR5, either is possible but DDR4 will be designed for fusion processors, GDDR5 will require more drive voltage which is inefficient and causes heat in the SoC to drive the external memory.)
7000 series GPU vs 8000 series GPU (I think 8000 series if DDR4 and 1st quarter 2014)
Remember the PS4 is going to try to be tier 3 EPS Gold Star certified which limits the active XMB or dashboard or browser desktop to 35 watts. Active as in a power reading of the system while at the active menu not actively using the menu. The 16 gig of SSD flash is (my opinion) used for the OS with the Hard disk sleeping to meet that 35 watt power spec at the menu. So having Jaguar low power X86 CPUs with one CPU package sleeping and GPU in Zero power mode (5 watts) with more efficient memory makes sense. To meet the 35 watt spec they may have to variable clock the CPUs and memory slower for the active memory and speed up for other functions as needed.
Oh the spec was bumped up to 35 watts from 25 watts sometime between 2009 and 2011 with feedback from a partner (Sony or Microsoft). Multi-media streaming 45 watts, there is no spec for the other power modes for multi-media features as again from "partner" feedback there were too many possibilities and was too hard to calculate so those were removed. From 35 watts for an active menu to 45 watts for streaming and displaying Netflix also suggests hardware choices. GPU will not be used or if it is then only a part of a GPU would be awake which I think the 8000 series supports.
Canis lupus
Member
Nr 1 to 4 are set to release in the first 6 months of next year. (if Rockstar follows their tradition of spring releases.)
Why is that? when they first showed it off everyone and their dog assumed it was a late 2012 title till they came out and said it was coming in 2013, I see no reason why it would be a late 2013 title considering how long it has been in development and you are the only one I have seen suggesting it wouldn't be out in the first 6 months.
I mean, if you know something we don't, do share.
Canis lupus
Member
Didn't they first say q4 2012 or early next year?
jeff_rigby
Banned
http://www.digitaltvnews.net/content/Argentina%20comenz%C3%B3%20pruebas%20con%20ISDB%20en%20Canal%207/?s=Digital%20Living%20Network%20Alliance&sentence=1 said:
Something like the above will be in the Xbox 720 and possibly PS4. It looks like this generation Sony can support ATSC 2.0 with the Nasne and a PS3, no HDMI pass-thru needed.
12) ATSC 2.0 *-* starts May 2012 thru 1st quarter 2013. *-* h.265 published for use Jan 2013. *-* Sony Nasne *-* RVU support for the PS3 announced by Verizon and Direct TV
Raytracer WTH? and 2 sticks of ddr4..so no GDDR5?Look familiar? from IBM to AMD CPU
jeff_rigby
Banned
New information on AMD 2013 releases
BGA package is a direct solder to motherboard design not plugin which would be Laptop or Game Console packaging. This sounds very much like the 2014 designs available late 2013.Fudzilla said:
THE PS4 APU?
Sounds promising for a possible PS4 set up. Jaguar has been mentioned a lot in recent rumors and I'm expecting something like an 8850 in terms of a GPU (likely heavily underclocked but with a newer tesselator and OpenGL 4.3 support)
specialguy
Banned
The 8000 series should be out in very early 13 if not late 12 though. 8000 series seems cutting edge to us now, but it will seem quite mature and old hat by November 2013 (by then AMD will be readying 9000 series).
What you're saying would be the equivalent of saying Sony should go with a 6000 series instead of a 7000 series for a hypothetical nonexistent November 2012 launch over manufacturing issues, and that doesn't seem right.
Staying on 28nm and being an extension of HD7XXX, 8XXX shouldn't be a problem imo, and you could get nice spec bumps. For example the rumored 8XXX equivalent of Cape Verde (rumored for Durango) is a tasty little boost, I'm sure the same for Pitcairn and down the line.
Canis lupus
Member
8000 series will most likely be in the PS4. It will debut around Q1 2013, by the time PS4 launches AMD will be ready to launch 9000 series on pc.
Nevertheless, with all these latest tech PS4 will be a powerhouse.
Nevertheless, with all these latest tech PS4 will be a powerhouse.
When a line of graphics cards launches has less to do with whether it will be in a system, than stuff like its power draw, transistor count, die size, level of heat dissipation, and so on.
It usually takes a while to get all that down to a level where it's viable to put it an enclosed device like a console, especially at a realistic price point.
It usually takes a while to get all that down to a level where it's viable to put it an enclosed device like a console, especially at a realistic price point.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The 2014 design 8000 series has a couple of features that would be advantageous.
1) Full HSA
2) Context switching
3) 1.2 times more efficient than 7000 series and 7000 1.6 times more efficient than 6000
4) A 2014 full HSA design is the first point where AMD says they can have third party IP in the SoC and Custom SoCs using their building blocks to 2.5D and 3D assemble. The 8000 series Full HSA GPU is probably designed to be a building block part.
(AMD's Chips in 2014 to Support CPU-GPU Context Switching.. Sony filed a patent in 2010 about CPU-GPU context switching.) Context switching absolutely needed to efficiently use parts of the GPU as a compute element (split the GPU up into multiple GPUs/CUs (supported by OpenCL 1.2)) in games and switch back to traditional GPU use when needed.
The PS4 will have a 8000 series GPU and 2 packages of 4 Jaguar CPUs each with 2 meg L2 cache for each package. This leaves TDP room for a larger GPU or room for 2 additional CPU packages like two 1PPU3SPU packages mentioned in another 2010 Sony patent. I think rumors of 2X the performance are adding 1.6 plus 1.2 efficiency increases for a total that is almost 2X the performance. Also if DDR4 is used instead of DDR3, DDR 4 is designed for Fusion APU SoCs and requires less drive power allowing for a TDP savings inside the SoC.
Dunno.
I'm sure if it would make sense they would do it, but it might not be that simple.
Think it's also a question of integration and customisation. If they've been targeting the 7 series for a while, 'starting over' on a 8 series based chip might not be feasible for a release in the next 12-15 months. I'm not sure how much customisation work they're doing, but something to bear in mind.
What would the 8 series buy them anyway, assuming the same performance envelope? Unless there was some massive boost to perf-per-watt or something, the difference might not be worth the risk to the schedule.
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