I bought the HD version last year when it first came out, and I'm just now getting around to finally playing it. It's just as fantastic as I remember it being, it's aged so fucking good for a previous generation game. It makes me sad when I see what Resident Evil 5 turned out to be. Not that I didn't enjoy the game, it's just what the game turns into towards the end that's completely meh.
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RTTP: Resident Evil 4: The most complete party ever thrown.
- Thread starter StuBurns
- Start date
It results in certain monsters not looking as slimy or Leon's strap not being as shiny as they were in the GC version. If that's a deal breaker for you then, yeah, you're better off trying the Dolphin emulation.
olimpia84
Member
After playing all versions (excluding the HD port) I'm certain the Wiimote is the way to go for this game.
Come on. Surely you know that providing an opposing viewpoint requires much more than this grocery list. Much less one that consists mostly of descriptions and vague, unsupported statements, lol. Did you actually want that list to help your argument?
All quite subjective on their own, for those who care for that sort of thing. Irrelevant to the quality of a game in a serious discussion, that is, assessing the quality of the mechanics and their implementation as well as the content built around those mechanics.
It is a very good comedy anyways, so it's good enough.
It would be quite a feat of revisionism to deny that this was one of the best looking games of the last generation. While recognizing that, you must also put into perspective the technology and techniques of last generation. Every game used "cheap" visual effects as a workaround. It must also be noted that games of last generation also took into account the common display technology that the game was going to be played on. A game like RE4 does have many primitive tricks, but just about all games last generation did. It was primitive hardware. The real problem is that it is very difficult to get these things looking correct on modern displays as games last generation had visual tricks that took advantage of the limited clarity and other shortcomings of CRT technology. Many enthusiasts are aware of how these things affect 2D games but it does not seem to carry over to 3D, which is an issue as it's just as important for games of the previous generation. Things like the commonly seen faux-bumpmappingish look painted into the textures (not to be confused with the hardware bumpmapping used on some creatures and objects) or 2D objects meant to appear 3D that rotate perspective in RE4 hold up much, much better on a CRT thanks to defocusing, color bleeding, and other quirks inherent to the technology. No amount of upressing in Dolphin will be able to fix this.
This is not only true for RE4 but true for many of the best looking games of last gen as well -- such as the Silent Hill games.
You're describing part of the game. You've told me that it has sparse environments, but you neglected to say why they are bad or give specific standout examples. Things can be sparse for a reason.
Another description of the game. They're predictable and easily dispatched, but why is it bad? There are a lot of factors to difficulty, so just because the enemies are predictable and easily dispatched doesn't tell me much. One could hold the view that the amount of enemies as well as the punishment for when you fail the easy dispatch could consist of the difficulty of the game, for example.
Yet another description of the game. You've told me that the bosses mostly consist of hit the obvious weak spot. This does not mean they are bad, however. It's a valid approach to boss design. You must also assess uncovering the weak spot -- is it interesting? Interesting doesn't have to mean that it's some big grand thing to uncover their weak points, as you're right in that they're a bit obvious. But say, those few minutes before you figure out their weak spot? Is it interesting to fight the boss until you find their weak spot? Is hitting their weak spot interesting? Is the fight paced properly?
Another very important part of boss fights is the area in which you fight them, and the effects it has on the fight, another thing RE4 excels at. You failed to cover any of these things.
Which ones? There are a lot of QTEs in the game. Most of them are too inoffensive and straight-forward to be awful, really. QTEs such as knifing Gigante are a release for the player, a bit of a reward. It allows them to continue their fight without taking away their interactivity completely, although the degree of interactivity is reduced. With that reduction in interactivity also comes a reduced room for error, you either hit the buttons and damage the boss or you don't. You don't have to worry about not doing something right or messing it up. That's how it works as a release for the players. It's part of the pacing of the game.
Some QTEs are a bit hard to objectively defend, but I personally see things like the boulder QTEs as a way to keep the player on their toes. It also helps establish the setting of the game as a hostile environment with danger at any turn, or the "atmosphere."
So you admit it's fine, but it doesn't belong in Resident Evil? Uh, okay. Is this a list of things wrong with the game or a list of stuff you just don't like in your RE games?
Why? What happens to it?
Mostly a description of the game. You fail to assess if simple puzzles are suited to the game's pacing or not (considering the fast action pace of the game, obtuse puzzles would just bog down the game, really), if they are designed well (yes, simple puzzles do not suddenly materialize out of nothing, they still must be consciously planned out and implemented by the developers), and if they complement the level design well.
Again, you even say it's not bad for me! Who cares about what your subjective perception of Resident Evil is? I mean "who cares" on a "we are speaking of RE4 as a game, not how well it blends in with the rest of the franchise" level. It's irrelevant.
Another irrelevant line. What does this have to do with the quality of the game? I respect the opinions of the fans who have a personal dislike of RE4, even if I disagree, because they feel it's far removed from what the series was prior, but in a discussion of the quality of the game itself, it absolutely does not belong.
Saying it's forgettable is subjective. If you had the knowledge to do so, you could objectively criticize the music on a musical level (sorry, not too familiar with music terms) and point out its failings I suppose. But saying it's forgettable... This has to do with the music's lasting power on a person and is really hard to measure objectively.
Subjective. Plenty of people have found the game to be quite tense/scary simply due to the nature of its encounters and also due to the atmosphere. Objectively it can't be said that it's tense and scary, but you can also not claim that it is objectively not tense and scary.
Sort of a cross between vague non-criticism and a description of the game. You should assess if the abundance of ammunition and herbs suits the pacing and encounter design or not. Since this game is much more focused on action and combat than previous RE games, it would make sense that it would have a lot of ammo and herbs.
It must also be noted that there are several iterations of the game's economy and item balance between regions, platforms, rereleases, etc. While not required, tackling all of them would make things much more interesting if one were to make a nice write-up of the game.
Once more, you're describing it. This is a valid approach to pacing a game and balancing its difficulty curve so long as it's done right.
Not a very detailed or convincing criticism, with only one vague ("some" -- how many? which ones?) example. And really, I disagree with your example. The ones usually right after the chapter save are in spots where you will be backtracking, so the placement makes sense. As far as I remember anyways, I won't make a factual claim on that quite yet.
You are describing something we have to do in the game. You do not criticize it. Is the escorting bad? Does the character you escort inhibit you? Alternatively, perhaps the escorted character forces you to formulate new battle strategies to ensure you defeat the enemies and ensure the escorted character takes no to minimal damage, etc. It can be a positive.
Well, which parts are hit and which are miss? Why? Am I just supposed to guess?
Why? How? Does the pacing diminish toward the end? Do the mechanics not warrant the length of game time it takes up? You don't tell me.
woah something i can respond to
I think that, in the case of the camera angle, it's a tradeoff. The left orientation feels quite natural and gives players a great, although not complete, field of view. There's that blindspot in the left, but in exchange you get greater precision to work with anything outside of that. The precision is rather necessary considering the combat in the game; limb/headshots etc. As a result, one of the strategies of taking out groups of baddies is making sure you're aware of your surroundings, and uh, surrounding enemies.
Which animations, specifically? All of them except those two cases? I can't really agree with that. The animation is quite good, especially the enemy reaction animations.
Overall this is not a very interesting or well-founded opposing viewpoint. For somebody who derides the fanbase of this game for not realizing subjectivity, you sure fall victim to that a bit yourself, just in a different way. Moving along to other posts in the thread...
So you have no issues saying that there is a problem with some of the level design, but when asked as to what you're talking about, you're going to have to wait until you have some time off? Don't you at least have a few examples off the top of your head? No? One?
So the reason he's bad is because you think he makes no sense? What effect does the sense of a merchant character make on the quality of the game?
Perhaps atmosphere, but he's well placed and low-key to the point where it's very hard to say he remotely effects the atmosphere. His nature is kept a mystery so you can make up your own explanation for him.
Why is nebulous necessarily bad, even if this did matter? He's a merchant character; does he need a detailed backstory and purpose other than being a merchant?
One could argue that if he doesn't have a purpose other than being a merchant, then you could replace him with anything and it wouldn't change. But I think a merchant character works for having a shop and upgrade system accessible mid-level, being able to backtrack to him rather than having to restart the level, and not as dumb as like a vending machine or something. I much prefer him to RE5's uninspiring menu.
You do.
And I don't think Resident Evil should have ever been about being a 4-pack of glorified Simple 2000 games, but RE6 still exists. You'll never see me use "it's not resident evils!!!" in criticism of it, though.
No, they are great. Button usage and variety is a bizarre complaint, but they are obviously mostly used to relieve and reward the player without just giving them a cutscene, while bringing some of the strengths of cutscenes, such as camera angles that give you a visually satisfying view and more contextually relevant animations that wouldn't be possible during normal play.
They are pretty forgiving with the checkpoints on any QTE that kills you on failure, so that's not an issue either.
Uhh, okay. I like Resident Evil too and Resident Evil 4 is a good Resident Evil game because it is a game in the Resident Evil series and is a good game. Actually it's the best. Do you see my viewpoint?
Not a lot to work with here.
What more control do you want over her? You can tell her to wait, tell her to follow you, and tell her to hide in trash dumps where it'll be as if you're not even having to escort her for as long as she's in there.
It's a great solution to escort missions.
Lastly,
this hurt my brain
This reply took awhile because it was a lot to tackle so I just put it in Notepad and chipped away at it on it on and off.
Um, what? Elaborate please.
It's honestly one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played. I've beaten it upwards of 20 times, each play-through taking more than 10 hours, and I still enjoy it to this day. I don't think I can say that about any other game in existence.
EDIT: NM, you covered that later I just saw. Still, I think that's what most people think of when they call anything "best ____ ever." People usually aren't talking about the individual parts that make up the whole.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Rofl. Same
I like RE4 alot and think it's a really fun, well made japanese action game.
But it's just another one of many to me
The amount of TMP ammo you get from drops is balanced towards the amount of shots you'll end up firing off.
It makes it the smartest choice for sections like the monorail where a single shot knocks enemies off as single TMP bullets are worth alot less than single bullets of other weapon types
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Weren't you arguing recently that RE4 had awful localization?!
Resident Evil 4 should have never be called Resident Evil 4. Like Devil May Cry never became Resident Evil 4, it is just too fare away of the original idea of the series. Now it pretty much split the fans in two camps: People who want the classic horror-survival gameplay and people who want the action-style. Capcom should have take the same route like Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare continued with "Modern Warfare" or Rayman: Raving Rabbids continued with "Raving Rabbids" and have Resident Evil 4 become a spin-off. With this decision Capcom would have much lease problems in the long run and two well-known, different IPs to capitalize.
Dion Blaster
Member
Still working through this for the first time on my Wii. Is this the best game from last gen? Seems like it.
Yet they use neither formula...I don't get it.
RE5 and RE6 are much different than RE4 from what I've played/seen.
Yet they use neither formula...I don't get it.
RE5 and RE6 are much different than RE4 from what I've played/seen.
This game is awesome. one of the few games that ive played through multiple times. The others being super metroid, ocarina and skyward sword.
So many highlights, the village, the barn, snipering the crazed villager in the van. It does shooting better than any other game ive played. Deserves every accolade it gets.
Could it be a fluke though?? Resi 5 is fun, but its like half the length and bulit around co-op. Pales in comparison. Resi 6 is like its made from a different company, tries way too hard to be mainstream, targetting cod crowd. res.net etc
So many highlights, the village, the barn, snipering the crazed villager in the van. It does shooting better than any other game ive played. Deserves every accolade it gets.
Could it be a fluke though?? Resi 5 is fun, but its like half the length and bulit around co-op. Pales in comparison. Resi 6 is like its made from a different company, tries way too hard to be mainstream, targetting cod crowd. res.net etc
I totally disagree. RE4 is largely the same formula. It's just on a grander scale and controls much better. It was a required evolution for the series, because no one would be buying those tank controlled entries if they still existed.
Roland Deschain
Member
Great reply pizzaroll.
RE4 is certainly in my top 5 greatest games. Waiting for the HD version to go on sale.
RE4 is certainly in my top 5 greatest games. Waiting for the HD version to go on sale.
Joint best game of all time along with Metroid Prime. Perfect combination of eerie RE atmosphere, satisfying action gameplay and tongue-in-cheek script. I'd happy play this for the next 10 years than endure the po-faced drivel we were served with 5 and 6.
Zero was a failure, the series needed to evolve. RE4 still felt like Resident Evil to me, despite the changes. It has more fleshed out combat but personally I see a minimal difference between it and REmake in terms of tone. Mikami knew exactly what he was doing.
Zero was a failure, the series needed to evolve. RE4 still felt like Resident Evil to me, despite the changes. It has more fleshed out combat but personally I see a minimal difference between it and REmake in terms of tone. Mikami knew exactly what he was doing.
AcceptableGhost
Member
There were SIX very close in design Resident Evil games prior to RE4. The RE series would honestly probably be dead by now (it would be where Onimusha is) if they didn't do some sort of Mega Man X style total re-haul of the series. Given that they made one of the best action games ever made out of their total re-haul, I consider it a pretty big success. If you want to play older RE there are six games just sitting there waiting for you to play them (among the other slight spinoffs of RE that Capcom made as well).
I am surprised they didn't manage to ring more games out of the Resi4 formula (only Resi5 and RE:R).
RE4 still has tank controls. In fact (from what I recall) it controls almost identically to older RE games except you can aim freely and the camera is over the shoulder.
I am surprised they didn't manage to ring more games out of the Resi4 formula (only Resi5 and RE:R).
RE4 still has tank controls. In fact (from what I recall) it controls almost identically to older RE games except you can aim freely and the camera is over the shoulder.
Hey, I am definitely looking at dynamic difficulty as well since it
a) also is different from difficulty to difficulty and
b) affects the player to a different extend. You are more likely to trigger it on hard than on easy, which is a difference in the difficulty levels in itself.
Was the fact that the difficulty changes for taking damage and missing shots something you "noticed" or something you read anywhere? Could you link me? I tested the dyn. difficulty for dying a bit so far already.
Also, still looking for PC saves of Resident Evil 4, see the last post in the OP. Anyone?
No, it doesn't.
It does doesn't it? Unless my mind was playing tricks on me for the last 7 years, you rotate the character with the left stick exactly the same way you did in the old RE games.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Yeah.. it does.
You press forward and he goes forward. You press back he goes back. Left/Right turns him like a tank. The right stick does nothing (just awkwardly moves the camera to the side you press it, temporarily... never use the right stick in Resi4 lol).
It is tank controls...
He rotates, not strafes, that's true, but you can alter your direction while moving, you don't stop like in previous games. It feels completely different.
The Xtortionist
Member
I love RE4 reloading animation for almost all weapons
More games should focus on making the unimportant things more satisfying. Weak reload animations are an instant turn-off for me, shallow as that sounds.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I just popped in Resident Evil 3. You don't stop while your moving when you alter direction. It is exactly the same. You are incorrect.
I disagree, it feels totally different.
It's not proof in any way, but the GiantBomb tank controls concept page doesn't list RE4, but does list a number of games that I'd consider to have tank controls. I can't articulate why it's different, but seemingly, they agree.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
The difference in camera angle makes the controls infinitely more usable. They're still tank controls, but the "forward button" will always be both character relative and, crucially, camera-relative.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I just popped in Resident Evil, apparently Mikami got it right the first time because it is effectively identical. I don't think GiantBomb wiki articles really have a bearing on whether or not RE4 has tank controls lol. Tell me when Resident Evil 4 has strafing and then I will agree with you.
The camera is certainly a huge element. I remember when Heavy Rain came out, they gave the character a 'drive' button (R2), which was meant to stop the fixed camera from disorienting the player movement. I don't think it helped at all, but it was at least an attempt.
I literally said in that post the GB thing doesn't prove anything. Just that who ever did it disagrees with you, like I do.
There are few games I'd say are better than RE4, but that doesn't mean RE4 doesn't give them a run for their money. Thread has inspired me (for better or for worse) to hunt down a copy of the PC version. It's the only version of the game I haven't played...iOS version included. It's got that Deus Ex thing going in that every time someone mentions it, some one will replay it.
Doesn't really matter what it "feels" like to you, as the movement controls are exactly the same.
StuBurns said:
Doesn't really matter what it "feels" like to you, as the movement controls are exactly the same.
Net_Wrecker
Member
It's not shallow at all. A lot of shooters don't get "the little things" right, and it adds up to a game that if stripped all the way down to it's core gameplay would be boring as hell. Reload animations, recoil, casings, muzzle smoke/flash, etc. are all a part of that.
21 times. Yes, I'm a huge dork.
Youd think some of the critics played an entirely different game compared to the fans. Plus, they easily trip over the use of words like perfect or sentences like best game ever. Correctomundo scares me a bit, especially with opinions being factual. Yikes.
Anyway, Resident Evil 4 was a huge departure from its predecessors but thats okay. As much as I love classic Resident Evil, only devoted fans to the franchise would buy a new game with tank controls and fixed camera positions. It sucks for some, but a lot of people just want a more dynamic game. With RE 4, they made the right choices. I just mentioned I finished the game 21 times and its because of the amazing pacing this game. Uncharted 2 almost replicated it, but overall RE 4 did a bit better. After so many times I know whats coming but I dont mind. The diversity in enemy encounters, boss fights and other set pieces are amazing.
And I love the constant dread hanging around. Mansion tension and all that jazz is still fantastic in REmake for instance, but RE 4 gave it a different spin. RE4 is one of those game where I felt that I was being watched all the time and more importantly; I never felt safe.
And oh, the bosses man. Seriously, my first fight with Verdugo was a doozy. And the cage battle with It was unnerving.
I dont think the people who loved Remake want a new RE game to have the same tank controls. What they are asking for is that Capcom retain the tone and atmosphere and pacing of the original and update the game to modern controls. Tighter corridors with lesser enemies and a more moody atmosphere would still work. I think the initial RE4 concept video was a perfect way they could have evolved on the previous RE framework. All they had to do in that video was replace the supernatural elements with zombies and viola you have a perfect template to work on. Oh and glad I am not the only one who thought UC2 came that close to single player greatness in terms of pacing.
They are certainly not exactly the same. The dynamic camera means controls are always relative to your directional input.
Yes they are.
Uh what? Have you ever played a classic RE game longer than 15 minuets or something, because that's exactly how they have functioned in every resident evil game since the series inception. It's the entire reason the term "tank controls" came about as up on the the dpad/stick = forward regardless of where the camera was is the entire reason the controls worked so well with the constantly changing screens in the game. Otherwise, you'd have to randomly stop and reset the controls every time you changed screens.
The HD version of RE4 is one conversation I think I wont bother with - I already have both the Wii and the Gamecube versions. And according to the Gametrailers review the HD version of is inferior to the Gamecube version. As it's based off the PC version code, which was based off the PS2 version, which was already not as good as the original. I have no idea why Capcom cheaped out and didn't do a proper HD conversation.
Well, that would be great to have such a game, but I think Capcom is kind of done with the whole mansion concept in the Resident Evil series. Okay, if you look at Revelations there might be hope but I don't know. The RE 4 haunted mansion looked very cool, but I wonder; wouldn't modern controls break a game like that? People can call me crazy, but the tank controls were half the fun of classic RE. Because of your inabillity to act quickly zombies were actually a threat.
Kinda makes me think of RE 3; in order to give it a more modern feel they gave Jill a dodge move. If you mastered dodging zombies weren't a threat anymore.
AcceptableGhost
Member
You press up the character go forward, press down the character goes backward, press left/right causes the character to turn regardless of what the camera is doing. That is what tank controls are. It just happens in Resident Evil 4 the camera is at your back but it has not affected the controls at all.
I have no idea what you mean by 'reset the controls', but I don't think the controls worked well at all, and they were constantly shit on by people, so I think lots of people agree. Where the camera is, logically to me, is where I as the operator am, I can't imagine being in the PoV of the character and operate the controls accordingly.
This is the same website who lied about the AI in RE Mercs 3D and used an example from a tutorial stage to make their point for them.
GT is a fairly untrustworthy website all around.
The_Hitcher89
Member
You've just explained why Syberia controls like shit
It's becoming increasingly obvious you don't know what you are talking about here....
To put it simply, due to the prerendered backdrops that change as you reach the edge of them usage of traditional "analog" (move forward in the direction you press) controls aren't feasible due to the orientation of your character changing every time you shift from one prerendered backdrop to the other. EG when using analog controls Leon goes from one end of a hallway to the other you're pressing the movement stick to the down position to move to the end of the hallway. However, once you get the the other end of the hallway the prerendered backdrop shifts to a new perspective facing Leon and you are now holding the movement stick down to move Leon forward . Thus you have to stop and let the controls realign themselves to Leon's perspective every time you change screens.
This is why the game's utilize "tank" controls in the first place.
ok
Ad populum is not a good argument. Particularly when it's back up by nothing but an anecdote.
See above^
O_<
*takes the Syberia games off gog list*
Ugh, thanks for saving me the time of having to go through those controls. Nothing is more aggravating than having to stop and let the controls realign after every single screen. Not even having a zombie take a bite out of my ass in RE1 PSX due to me not being able to 180 on a dime.
I agree the tank controls contributed to the fun of classic RE. It made the player feel more vulnerable but I am sure they can modify enemy types to adapt to the modern controls the player has at his disposal and create the same feeling of vulnerability. Thats where good game design comes in. I really think that Capcom will not be going in that direction though ever again unless RE6 disappoints sales wise which in all likely hood is not going to. I have not played Revelations yet since I do not have a 3DS. Saving as much money as possible for a WiiU. Hopefully they make a WiiU version in the future.
You're saying it's the best it could be given the prerendered backgrounds, I'm not denying that, I am saying, they are shit.
Every time I moved from one camera to another (actually, not every time, but most times), I had to reconsider my controls.
why
They are constant. Up is always forward. Down is always backwards. Right/Left allows you to shift your character in a different direction. I can not understand why you would have to "reconsider" them considering nothing changes.
In more modern games that use a camera that changes orientation abruptly based on the scene when you transition from once scene to the next your control input acts the way it did under the old camera orientation until you enter a significantly different input.
This addresses the problem where you run from one camera angle into a reverse angle then immediately accidentally turn around. Works pretty well in practice.
Left rotates your character to their left, which can be confusing, as in one scene angling them to their left may have made them face left relative to the screen, then in the next scene may make them face right in screen terms
In a control scheme where pointing left makes the character go left in screen space that isn't an issue.
It also isn't an issue in RE4 because the camera position relative to the character is relatively constant. In that case your left, screen left and the character left are all the same direction.
This addresses the problem where you run from one camera angle into a reverse angle then immediately accidentally turn around. Works pretty well in practice.
Left rotates your character to their left, which can be confusing, as in one scene angling them to their left may have made them face left relative to the screen, then in the next scene may make them face right in screen terms
In a control scheme where pointing left makes the character go left in screen space that isn't an issue.
It also isn't an issue in RE4 because the camera position relative to the character is relatively constant. In that case your left, screen left and the character left are all the same direction.
The Return of
Banned
RE4 controls exactly like RE1-3. You just like how the camera is handled in 4 a lot better because it doesn't have transitions that confuse you which is understandable, but the movement in both games are exactly the same believe it or not.
This doesn't address anything as you're still awkwardly pressing a movement key in a direction that makes no sense, and the only way to correct them is to reset them by stopping.
A better aside is that well designed modern games don't abruptly change camera perspectives during gameplay if using traditional analog controls.
In the files, yeah. The dialogue isn't much different aside from a few added jokes, though that doesn't mean there aren't still a lot of fuck-ups, like completely changing Saddler and the cult's motives or removing somewhat important references, but it's still probably the most faithful and improves on Mikami's original writing in a lot of ways. So I suppose you could look at it in the light of being the best of the bad, since there isn't a single localization in the series that isn't filled with a mountain of mistakes.