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[DNF]

It´s funny to see all this "damage control" every time there is good news about Nintendo. But but France doesn´t count because...

people like aoc (and other not-so-lightweighted users) shit on wii u in every thread.
he states his assumptions as fact, never proves any of his claims and even if he is proven to be wrong with his assumptions he just moves on to the next wii u thread to shit on it again.

i love neogaf for the rare, interesting discussions and posts of non-biased users (like schuelma, wsippel and many others)
i like to actually overthink my standpoint on certain topics because of logical, well thougt out and/or interesting statements / assumptions / predictions.
(that's what a discussion board is for i guess, to broaden his own horizon)

despite being a nintendo-fan i'm looking forward reading negative wii u comments from those aforementioned non-biased users because these are actual thoughts from real persons.

Unlike the constant trolling of these trolling trolls (just look at the post-histories).

if my litte namecalling/rant/meltdown is getting me permabanned, then farewell.
i will still enjoy neogaf because reading will still be possibly and actually contributing to intelligent discussions and expressing myself in english is non of my skills anyway.

 

[Psychotext]

Not really, that's not like we didn't knew already for 10 years.

Sure, but even so I suspect there's still a lot of people who want to hear how he tries to wriggle out of it.

Anyway, sorry, off topic!

 

[lherre]

nobody ever said that and you guys look silly for repeating it

we had reports of 40k for UK launch week and 60ish k for france almost a month ago.

The sub 100k talk is for UK only.

Basically this.

In fact I think a lot of peole said 300-400k as the most probably numbers.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

3DS 2012 : almost 950k

Slaying.

And 2013 is shaping to be much bigger. 3DS hitting its stride!

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Wait. Didn't the N64 sell something like 60 million + units worldwide? If you could guarantee that number of sold WiiU units to Nintendo right now they'd take your hand clean off at the wrist.

I think it may end up closer to the (and my beloved) Gamecube in terms of WW sales numbers than the N64 IMHO

The N64 sold about half that worldwide.

 

[Moonstone]

Germany IS a big N market. And that's why most of us are surprised in a bad way by Wii U software performance so far in that country.

Yes. But Germans seem to be not so launch crazy. It usually takes some time to build momentum.

The top 100 didn't include bundled software and WiiU was probably often bought as christmas gift for kids. Most likely a lot parents bought a wiiU Nintendoland bundle (Thats already 12 games!) and perhaps a cheepo Wii title.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

And 2013 is shaping to be so much better. 3DS hitting its stride!

It will sell gang-busters this year, across all continents.

 

[Psychotext]

Most likely a lot parents bought a wiiU Nintendoland bundle (Thats already 12 games!)

Suddenly I'm reminded of the old Wii ebay auctions which would count up all the Wii Sports and Wii Play games.

 

[Busty]

The N64 sold about half that worldwide.

YIKES. You are absolutely correct. I'm not a sales age guy at all but I was always under the impression that the N64 had sole MUCH better than that.

Interesting. I still think the WiiU will fall closer in line to the Gamecube's 20+ million units sold once everything is said and done though.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

 

[Exterminieren]

3DS 2012 : almost 950k

Slaying.

And 2013 is shaping to be much bigger. 3DS hitting its stride!

I genuinely think 3DS hardware is in for a pretty huge year, considering how it seems to have been doing worldwide with a lack of compelling content last year and the schedule for this year that we've been seeing.

 

[Mpl90]

Eh, there are no datas for Vita, DS and PSP. I'd like to know why, since the picture we have now is incomplete. Yes, we have the best selling console and all the home platforms, but the others?

 

[AniHawk]

YIKES. You are absolutely correct. I'm not a sales age guy at all but I was always under the impression that the N64 had sole MUCH better than that.

Interesting. I still think the WiiU will fall closer in line to the Gamecube's 20+ million units sold once everything is said and done though.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

the n64 sold less than the saturn in japan, and it sold poorly in europe (where nintendo has always struggled, last gen excluded). in america, it actually sold about as well as the super nintendo. so if you are an american, it probably didn't seem too bad.

the gamecube sold about 12-13m units in the us while the n64 sold 20m units. if the wii u can fight through its first year and come into its own in 2014 (a big if), it could probably perform more closely with the ps3 here- a distant third, but one with a respectable userbase.

 

[Striek]

Interesting. I still think the WiiU will fall closer in line to the Gamecube's 20+ million units sold once everything is said and done though.

No way. The market expanded a lot last-gen and Nintendo has more options than ever to get things moving in the right direction.

Eh, there are no datas for Vita, DS and PSP. I'd like to know why, since the picture we have now is incomplete. Yes, we have the best selling console and all the home platforms, but the others?

I'm going to guess they're all negligible and not worth mentioning.

 

[Busty]

No way. The market expanded a lot last-gen and Nintendo has more options than ever to get things moving in the right direction.

While the WiiU is by no means dead and buried (anecdotally speaking) there just seems to be no enthusiasm for the platform at all. No one talking about it. No one buzzing about it.

Can Nintendo turn it around? To a degree, yes, but there is no way it's going to get anyhere near the Wii's level of success or mass market penetration and considering it's the 'sequel system' to the Wii that has to be a major disappointment already.

But, to me, the WiiU just feels like it's a conceptual misstep. Nintendo can splash the cash on exclusives and bring some first party heavy hitters to the table but the system just feels weirdly out of step to the rest of the market...., and not in a good way.

To me anyway..........,

 

[PaulLFC]

Talking about 3DS... Where are PSVs numbers? It´s interesting that no one even mentioned this system in this thread. Basically we have informations for every system since X360 launched and only PSV is MIA.

No idea for France. For UK:

PSV: ~61,000 in 4 days
Wii U: ~40,000 in 2 days

 

[grimshawish]

What does it do in the face of continuously underperforming Nintendos own expectations?

Liar
And you surely know your lying on this matter.

EDIT:
I also think its interesting the 360 is getting outsold by the Wii. Outside of NPD MS just isn't in that hot a shape.

EDIT 2: Oh and 'France is racist' can fuck off. Why is it when an American product isn't selling somewhere its down to race? Europe hasn't taken to Halo, without that...360 is less appealing. Its the same thing that people in the US have live cause their mates have it, people buy PS3.

Seriously, theres no leg to stand on since so many other US products sell well. Its total bullshit and quite frankly elitism.
MS just hasn't done enough in Europe or Japan.

 

[Backflip]

I have dual citizenships and from what I've seen the French and Americans have a very bizarre love/hate relationship. The anti-American sentiment matches the anti-French sentiment among many Americans, but I've also always found that both cultures have a profound, untold, almost shameful respect for one another.

That's true. What I don't understand though, is the fact that most French people won't admit that there is some anti-americanism in France.

 

[Kurtofan]

That's true. What I don't understand though, is the fact that most French people won't admit that there is some anti-americanism in France.

Isn't there anti-americanism everywhere?

 

[Striek]

Liar
And you surely know your lying on this matter.

Lol? I can't tell if you are being serious. I assume so, but thats so...wrong.

Original 3DS forecast for FY11: 16M. Huge price drop. Later revised forecast of 14M. Reaches 13.53M.
FY12: Forecast 18.5M. Later reduced to 17.5M Reaches ???

The 3DS hasn't actually met a single one of Nintendos forecasts yet. The originals, or the revised.

 

[Shahadan]

That's true. What I don't understand though, is the fact that most French people won't admit that there is some anti-americanism in France.

Never saw it anywhere, except for fun. France isn't Paris. In other regions I pretty much observed the opposite and it was ridiculous : "That product to kill cockroaches must be so effective, it is american after all!"

 

[Laguna]

No idea for France. For UK:

PSV: ~61,000 in 4 days
Wii U: ~40,000 in 2 days

I´m talking about France 2012 numbers. We know PSV launched this year but it still gets ignored or data gets hidden from public for whatever reason.


But I´ll answer you anyway with a similar case in Japan to show that some systems can have a very frontloaded launch.

WiiU launched in Japan with
WIU | 308.142
while PSV did even a little bit better
PSV | 324.859

Despite the marginally better PSV launch in Japan, WiiU already came close to 2/3 of PSVs lifetime sales. WiiU 715.085 vs PSV 1.175.222.

Here we are comparing ~1month of WiiU sales against ~1 year PSV sales.

 

[grimshawish]

Despie the marginally better PSV launch in Japan, WiiU already came close to 2/3 of PSVs lifetime sales. WiiU 715.085 vs PSV 1.175.222.

To be fair Vita has been selling worse than holidays to North Africa. So thats not really notable at all.

Lol? I can't tell if you are being serious. I assume so, but thats so...wrong.

Original 3DS forecast for FY11: 16M. Huge price drop. Later revised forecast of 14M. Reaches 13.53M.
FY12: Forecast 18.5M. Later reduced to 17.5M Reaches ???

The 3DS hasn't actually met a single one of Nintendos forecasts yet. The originals, or the revised.

Well obviously 2011 was a cock up. Was pretty much around 14M in the end and this year we've yet to see what it ends up with.

 

[Feahnor]

Wii had 180.000 units.

Wii U is almost 100 € more expensive (no one want's the basic bundle), so 120.000 units are good for December.


The question is how the following months are going to be.

Wii was 180.000 units because that's all that was available. There were plenty of wii u's in most shops. This is a picture taken at Fnac Paris Champs-Élysées the 24th December (or 23rd, i can't remember right now). I stayed in the videogame section for an hour (my family was shopping and it was easy to "park" me there with the wheeling chair) and not one person took a single wii u box.

 

[test_account]

To be fair Vita has been selling worse than holidays to North Africa. So thats not really notable at all.

How much did holidays sell to North Africa?

 

[jonno394]

Figures aren't too bad, the whole launch has been a bit slow overall but people expecting a repeat of the Wii figures will undoubtedly be disappointed (Nintendo too).

As long as the Wii U can get lifetime sales of 30-40 million, then considering the shift to tablet and mobile gaming I don't think thats too bad (ok a big drop from Wii, but the fact is the core market who bought the Wii have moved on, and there is no reason to move back)

 

[Striek]

Well obviously 2011 was a cock up. Was pretty much around 14M in the end and this year we've yet to see what it ends up with.

2011 and the first half of 2012 thus far.

But we know what they expect for the next half anyway. To ship 2M more than they did last year in the same period. But we know they're down ~600k in the US, ~even in Japan, up slightly in France. Almost certainly down on a WW basis. So barring some wierd turn-around in the next 3 months (or price movement), they're going to miss another forecast too.

Regardless, what I said was true, its missed every forecast, and calling someone a liar just to maintain your own little reality is wierd.

 

[grimshawish]

Regardless, what I said was true, its missed every forecast, and calling someone a liar just to maintain your own little reality is wierd.

There is a difference between calling someone a liar and saying 'Liar '
But sure. Its my own weird little reality that the 3DS is doing very well and in 2012 at least is within general expectations.

Europe continues to be in a good position, Japan is strong, and so Nintendo should be looking to focus on the US. December sales indicate a good market there, its just about getting the games out and frankly next Black Friday being able to make good deals like NoE did this year.

How much did holidays sell to North Africa?

A refugee camp is still 'technically' a holiday...right?

 

[shinra-bansho]

Numbers aren't bad. They're not fantastic though. Supply is obviously plentiful then, given the 50% sell-through.

Falls roughly in line with an estimate of ~400K for the region.

Depending on performance in other countries that should bring WiiU somewhere between 400k on the low end and 700k on the high end.

Lol. 400K is nearing the high end.

EDIT: Why is there all this crap about Vita? Vita is selling like shit. That doesn't magically make sales above it fantastic... :/

 

[Spieler Eins]

UK is a lost cause anyway, but at least the core followers would be there in countries like France and Germany, if proper Nintendo HD productions were ready at launch and more on the horizon instead of NSMB whoring and relying too much on an ugly tech demo. Now it's probably just the core of the core, who feel obligated to buy the latest Nintendo thing. I guess Monster Hunter might give a minor boost in some mainland EU, but the whole timeframe until autumn probably seems like a missed opportunity for sales. Wii development almost died at the end of 2010, so we should swim in proper game announcements and hence more excitement for the latest Nintendo console...

 

[E-phonk]

I corrected myself here:

Ok, having calculated a bit more, this is where I land:

The UK should be somewhere between 60k & 100k (and 60k would be a flop in EU's biggest market), germany is about the same size as France in console%% and usually nintendo-friendly but with the lackluster performance let's put it between 75k & 100k.
The next 2 markets are Spain and Italy. Spain is +/- 45% of the market compared to france, Italy about 40%. I'd put both around 35-50k.
All other countries should also come to 70k combined (netherlands, finland, denmark, swiss, belgium, portugal, greece, ... )

So my guesttimate put's it at 400k on the low end, 600k on the high end.

If you'd have me taking a guess I'd say 450k-500k at the moment (including first 2 weeks of january).

This is excluding AU, which is also PAL and should add about 30k.

 

[test_account]

A refugee camp is still 'technically' a holiday...right?

Well, a holiday is a time period, so it cant really be compared to a phyiscal thing in that regards I knew it was a joke hehe, but i didnt quite understand the reference (i knew it was about that the Vita is selling bad), that is why i commented to ask =) I didnt try to kill the joke, sorry if it looked like that.

 

[Sadist]

Wonder about the German figures; Nintendo is pretty strong in Germany, well at least in my area just across the border of the Netherlands. Spain, Italy could be interesting as well.

I'd say okay Wii U numbers, thinking of the € 350 price. Seems to me the fanbase on mainland EU is still more interested, while the UK (at this moment) reverted back to it's pre-Wii state.

 

[Psychotext]

What I'm interested in isn't so much the launch sales (Nintendo have a loyal hardcore customer base) but the ones since the start of the new year. I have a feeling that they're going to be extremely low because I don't see any interest in the console from average consumers.

I was looking at the Amazon charts for gaming (I know, I know)... the Wii U premium bundle is currently 604th in the UK, 106th in France and 42nd in Germany (this is actually pretty good). Basic pack is 1,113th / 551st / 1,266th respectively.

So it seems to be "ok" in Germany... but one thing is certain, the Basic pack is completely dead. I'd be surprised if they don't discontinue it.

 

[PaulLFC]

I´m talking about France 2012 numbers. We know PSV launched this year but it still gets ignored or data gets hidden from public for whatever reason.


But I´ll answer you anyway with a similar case in Japan to show that some systems can have a very frontloaded launch.

WiiU launched in Japan with
WIU | 308.142
while PSV did even a little bit better
PSV | 324.859

Despite the marginally better PSV launch in Japan, WiiU already came close to 2/3 of PSVs lifetime sales. WiiU 715.085 vs PSV 1.175.222.

Here we are comparing ~1month of WiiU sales against ~1 year PSV sales.

So you dismiss my numbers saying you're talking about France, then go on to list numbers for Japan?

 

[shinra-bansho]

I corrected myself here:
If you'd have me taking a guess I'd say 450k-500k at the moment (including first 2 weeks of january)

Considering I would guestimate based on these French numbers and a rough UK estimate of ~80K that for 2012 the European sales were ~400K or less (and there was some confirmation of such a figure in another thread).

UK sales this last week were like 1.5K based on Nintendo Land's lack of charting. We have an estimate for Spanish sales in one of their biggest shopping weeks at around 7K iirc from lherre. And the abundance of surplus supply in France doesn't indicate unrelenting demand.

I would say there's pretty much no chance of it being anywhere near 500K even with two weeks of January.

 

[michaelius]

I´m talking about France 2012 numbers. We know PSV launched this year but it still gets ignored or data gets hidden from public for whatever reason.


But I´ll answer you anyway with a similar case in Japan to show that some systems can have a very frontloaded launch.

WiiU launched in Japan with
WIU | 308.142
while PSV did even a little bit better
PSV | 324.859

Despite the marginally better PSV launch in Japan, WiiU already came close to 2/3 of PSVs lifetime sales. WiiU 715.085 vs PSV 1.175.222.

Here we are comparing ~1month of WiiU sales against ~1 year PSV sales.

As they say there are lies, bigger lies and statistics:

 

[grimshawish]

Well, a holiday is a time period, so it cant really be compared to a phyiscal thing in that regards I knew it was a joke hehe, but i didnt quite understand the reference (i knew it was about that the Vita is selling bad), that is why i commented to ask =) I didnt try to kill the joke, sorry if it looked like that.

haha its alright I guessed, wasn't much of a joke; just that North Africa isn't exactly prime holiday material these days. Don't worry 'bout it.

Wonder about the German figures; Nintendo is pretty strong in Germany, well at least in my area just across the border of the Netherlands. Spain, Italy could be interesting as well.

German numbers are pretty much the must see atm. Not for any one console; but to identify the size of the market compared to France/UK.

 

[Laguna]

As they say there are lies, bigger lies and statistics:

My numbers are correct and from Media Create and Famitsu has similar ones with slightly even better WiiU lifetime numbers. That you are selectively chosing a diagram that pleases you doesn´t change the fact that WiiU in one month already sold near 2/3 of what PSV did in its lifetime and in more than a year in Japan (handheld loving country). PSV even had 2 holiday seasons in this timeframe.

according to Media Create http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=508558
WiiU 715.085 vs PSV 1.175.222.

WiiU launched in Japan with
WIU | 308.142
while PSV did even a little bit better
PSV | 324.859

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Doesn't stop people from buying expensive smartphones and tablets...

Mmm, but phone services are completely central to your life, and smartphone/tablet computers do a lot more for people than a dedicated games machine does. It would be equally fallacious for me to say that the price tag of the 3DO didn't harm its sales, because people were buying cars, expensive stereos, air conditioning units, and houses, which are evidently far more money in the absolute sense.

People would be more willing to spend money on the WiiU if it was cheaper, or if it had more quality software backed up by good marketing. People might also be more willing to spend money on it if there wasn't so much good competition from other games platforms, which had far more games available to purchase last year than WiiU did. And they might be willing to buy it if they had more money to burn in a better economy.

 

[E-phonk]

People would be more willing to spend money on the WiiU if it was cheaper, or if it had more quality software backed up by good marketing. People might also be more willing to spend money on it if there wasn't so much good competition from other games platforms, which had far more games available to purchase last year than WiiU did. And they might be willing to buy it if they had more money to burn in a better economy.

Yeah, this is where I am at the moment. NSMBU just isn't enough to buy a 330€ console, and there isn't a lot to look forward to. I also have a huge backlog on PS3.
My current position is "might buy Q4 2013 is their is some compelling software". I also hope they patched out the current problems with the OS. And I'll probably get a PS4 at the end of 2014 unless they have some amazing launch software ready.

 

[electroplankton]

I think that the Wii U numbers aren't as bad as many people see them, but they aren't great either.

But Q1 numbers should be quite bad if Nintendo doesn't invest in some big marketing campaigns (which I don't suppose).


Anyway, I feel like their priority is the second half of 2012, especially because X720 and PS4 should be released/shown then.
This strategy is bad in short-term, but better for long-term-sales, they need a strong lineup to compete against the new consoles.

But they overestimated the launch numbers, I believe they thought this would run smoother.


Furthermore, their numbers 1 priority seems to be the 3DS currently, they can't change much for Wii U anyway (aside from marketing).

I agree. First half of 2013 should be terrible for Wii U (but it won't be good for any console), but I do think they are trying to set up a good second half so to counterbalance attention next MS and Sony hardware will get.

 

[Shito]

Off topic but...

Hey guys, we're so fan of americans that every news channel is opening right now with lance armstrong's ophra interview, when we're in a fucking war with terrorists!

No.
I watch BFMTV and I-tele morning news every morning.
Today, both of them opened their news with a big segment about what is happening in Israel, how it is related to the military operation going on in Mali, and AFTER THAT they talked about Armstrong.

France (as in "most people in France") neither hate nor love America. We love American pop culture (especially your tv shows guys), we sometimes criticize America for stuff like gun control or healthcare, but it doesn't really go beyond that.
This all "France is anti-america" is really stupid. It's just the same as saying "American people are dumb and don't know shit about geography": it's a stupid generalisation of maybe less than 5% of a country's population / shits you can see on its national television.

Sorry for the rant. I should know better it's useless, but hey... ^^

 

[electroplankton]

the n64 sold less than the saturn in japan, and it sold poorly in europe (where nintendo has always struggled, last gen excluded). in america, it actually sold about as well as the super nintendo. so if you are an american, it probably didn't seem too bad.

the gamecube sold about 12-13m units in the us while the n64 sold 20m units. if the wii u can fight through its first year and come into its own in 2014 (a big if), it could probably perform more closely with the ps3 here- a distant third, but one with a respectable userbase.

Assuming that PS4 and Nextbox will be flawless platforms not eating market with each other, they will have the perfect price point, a line-up of AAA since the launch day and all things will go perfectly for MS and Sony. Which are quite bold predictions.

 

[gamergirly]

3DS continues to laugh in the face of its apparent destruction.

3DS is going to be hosting a destruction party by years end

 

[Durante]

Assuming that PS4 and Nextbox will be flawless platforms not eating market with each other, they will have the perfect price point, a line-up of AAA since the launch day and all things will go perfectly for MS and Sony. Which are quite bold predictions.

At this point, I really don't think that things have to go "perfectly" for MS and Sony to go better than for Wii U.

 

[electroplankton]

At this point, I really don't think that things have to go "perfectly" for MS and Sony to go better than for Wii U.

Many people are assuming that. They don't realize that if 360 could sell over one million units during December 2012, this year will obstruct its successor, and its games will keep selling million and million of units (Call of Duty, Madden, generic FPS n.180) to the detriment of the new product.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Considering we heard many estimates saying sub 100K in all of Europe and most of GAF was basically not counting Europe when tallying Wii U sales, I'd say its much better than we thought.

Edit: Just so I'm clear, the estimates were from our GAF experts.

The only "GAF expert" estimate I've seen for Europe was 300k in 2012. And that came from someone who's bullishly negative on all things Nintendo.

Who said 100k?

 

[Laguna]

The only "GAF expert" estimate I've seen for Europe was 300k in 2012. And that came from someone who's bullishly negative on all things Nintendo.

Who said 100k?

I´ve seen this 100k prediction as well.

 

[lherre]

I´ve seen this 100k prediction as well.

LInk?

 

[Psychotext]

The only place I've seen 100k referred to is for the UK (in the PAL charts thread).

The Wii U is currently sub 100k LTD there.