Yes there was. It was proven and honestly it broke the game IMO.
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Rabid Fanboy Post with Fake Info on Last of Us AKA a big FU to Thread Standards
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Yes there was. It was proven and honestly it broke the game IMO.
so much for survival horror..
Pai Pai Master
Banned
The death of health packs was a start. Being incapacitated or dying is considered a bad thing in a lot of games these days. If I'm not shooting more dudes, I'm not having fun!
I think I remember an article awhile back where naughty dog said it wasn't survival horror.
I don't know... There have been a lot of really stupid things coming out of this gen. However, it is one of them.
Jawmuncher
Member
Sounds good to me.
I hope ND can pull it off.
I hope ND can pull it off.
Input lag is game ruining, the fact that people defend it boggles my mind.
SneakyStephan
Banned
It isn't something they choose...
Developers have done nothing but try to reduce input lag and make games more responsive over the years.
Many many manyears of blood sweat and tears have gone into finding ways to program games (Carmack has lots of talks about this all over the internets) to have your control input be added as late as possible in the rendering of each frame (so that you can use the newest input and the game will be more responsive.
The greatest game dev engineer minds have broken their heads over this for ages, some game engines are famous for being more responsive than others (id engine is the main one).
It is not an easy problem to work on and many many devs will fuck it up (guerilla games did, horribly.... avalanche did with just cause 2 )
High input lag is a result of engine programmers failing miserably at their goals.
The kz2 'patented' 'weight' was a desperate marketing spin.
It is infuriating to see people fall for it and I can only imagine how people like Carmack must feel when they have worked for most of their careers on reducing it when they see someone parroting marketing speak and defending/praising a game like killzone 2
Any engine with less of it than average is a great feat of engineering and should be aknowledged as such.
I gush about the spark engine from ns2 all the time because while casuals whine about a 40 second loading screen the first time you start a map I see the most responsive engine since goldsrc and ID tech 3
What are guerilla going to say? We failed as programmers? No, they'll say look at these fancy effects and bald space marines and we meant to make it like this...
Like a mother defending her ugly mouthbreathing runt of a child saying she still thinks he's beautiful and special.
Input lag is not realistic, 24 fps is not cinematic, a 50 degree fov in a game is not chosen because of the distance you sit from a tv, viewdistanceforresolution.jpg is horseshit, skyrim's UI was not an artistic choice that made it good, screen tearing is not defendable, fxaa is not a superior more advanced form of AA.
This spinning of objectively bad things or things that are objectively a big ugly compromise needs to stop.
Sessler: "As careful, as you have to be it's still a fast paced game."
Neil Druckmann: "That's the thing we always wanted to keep. You can go in guns blazing, you can stealth...all those things have to be fun."
Oh god, Derrick will lose it hearing about this trying to be a hybrid stealth action game
This is not a big FU to AAA games, this is another AAA game if that is true. You should not be able to go full action in an actual survival game.
I'm waiting for someone to have the balls to not cater to every brain dead asshole on this planet.
I'm sure the 5 seconds you go in guns blazing will be worth it.
Also the original trailer I believe was what they ment by action.
DRM also comes to mind as something that is being defended at the moment.
Kenshin001
Member
Regarding KZ2 the devs themselves said there was input lag, they also said the weightiness was a combination of factors including acceleration and animation.
Personally I had no problems with KZ2's controls, I even enjoyed them, but I can see how people used to COD and like games would. Yet to play any other game that replicated a gun's weight like KZ2 did though. I think KZ3 was a decent compromise.
Personally I had no problems with KZ2's controls, I even enjoyed them, but I can see how people used to COD and like games would. Yet to play any other game that replicated a gun's weight like KZ2 did though. I think KZ3 was a decent compromise.
Melchiah
Member
It didn't prevent me from hitting the targets in Killzone 2, in fact it worked very well in the context of the game, by adding more inertia to the movement. Which might be the idea here as well. I have absolutely no worries in this regard, as I loved how KZ2 felt, even before the whiners' patch.
Meatvillain
Banned
I know this makes me an asshole but I really did like the way Killzone 2 played. Input lag or not, I did like it for the way it did bring a certain heft to the way the game controlled. >_>
Why are we talking about KZ2?
Why are we talking about KZ2?
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
Killzone 2 definitely had input lag--almost 150ms. Guerrilla tried to deny this for a while but later ended up patching it. I think most dedicated players learned how to play with that and actually preferred the pre-patch controls.
I wouldn't be worried about the input lag in TLoU because it may actually suit the game.
I wouldn't be worried about the input lag in TLoU because it may actually suit the game.
Hang on a sec. KZ2 has weight. It also has input lag. The problem comes when people confuse the 2. The reason KZ2 has weight and atleast contributed to the illusion of weight - Heavy recoil, slower animation ( aim down sight in KZ2 has a longer animation than say a COD ), turn speed ( crucial reason ) and massive use of motion blur.
What it did have was also input lag which was most certainly a problem. KZ2 most certainly had weight not because of input lag.
SolidSnakex
Member
The only way you're going to prevent people from playing like that is by putting those annoying instant game over alarms in games. Which is a terrible gameplay mechanics and a really cheap way of eliminating action gameplay.
The only other of trying to curve it is by making the action route punishing. And that's what TLoU does from what we've seen and heard.
Calling attention to yourself in an area full of Clickers (one hit kill enemies) seems like a really dumb thing to do. And that's what you'd do if wanted to as Rambo in the game.
Meatvillain
Banned
I wonder if Uncharted 3's control issues are a better comparison? If so it could indeed be bad news.
Input lag, boo-hoo. If that's a dealbreaker for some (most) people, then the game isn't for you. Just like KZ2.
Translation: you suck at games.
So yeah, what's your opinion on Grand Theft Auto 4's input lag?
Melchiah
Member
What's there to deny? Sometimes games include features, or deliberate hindrances, that fit the idea and the gameplay, and might make them more realistic. Everything doesn't have to be made according to the lowest common denominator (ie. CoD), but unfortunately in some cases the developers bend over due to the whiners' outcry (ie. GoW:A trophy outrage).
I dunno I don't think I want to believe game journalists when it comes to difficulty as they tend to be more casual gamers than people who are supposed to play games for a living. I'm starting to believe it'll actually be possible to rambo your way through spots, if not clickers then the human enemies.
Believing that input lag = weight... You'd have to be as retarded as those that ate the marketing tripe that 'rumble was last gen'. The response time if KZ2 was universally delayed, right down to the title screen, the pause and options menus, you name it.
Pretty sure menus aren't supposed to 'weigh' anything. And if it takes as long as it does for a bullet to fly out of your gun after you pulled the trigger in real life as it does in KZ2, then, fuck.
Pretty sure menus aren't supposed to 'weigh' anything. And if it takes as long as it does for a bullet to fly out of your gun after you pulled the trigger in real life as it does in KZ2, then, fuck.
It still blows my mind that ND had no idea they shipped a game with funky aiming controls and had to have outsiders come in and help them figure out what was going on. Not to mention nearly any of the initial reviews for the game called this problem out either. Yet the minute the game came out, gaf was all over the issue.
I'd take a game with 10 forms of DRM and no input lag over a game with input lag and no DRM, though.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Is it safe to read the OP? i.e. any spoilers? Actually I'm not gonna read it, I have only seen the E3 gameplay video and the ambush video and am on complete media blackout, just tell me, is it good or bad?
Melchiah
Member
The thing is, was that a deliberate decision, that just backfired due to the CoD crowd? It wouldn't be the first time a game featured a deliberate hindrance of some sort.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Here we go again, low input lag the lowest common denominator?
So street fighter on a crt arcade cabinet at 60 fps is lowest common denominator?
Quake 3 is lowest common denominator?
Attack the argument not the poster is the rule on gaf but I'm sorry,reason keeps failing because you are a fool who falls for marketing spins.
You can lead a horse to water and all that, enjoy your 150 ms (+ 50-100 from your awesome HD led but not really tv, +10 from your wireless controller) of delay and then your 200+ ms lag on the hit detection when you play it online with that superpro (not lowest common denominator shit) peer to peer connection, with probably a ton of packetloss from that wifi connection you undoubtably use.
For people wondering why I get agressive, it's because the people defending this are only doing so because they haven't the slightest clue about what they are talking about.
It's like getting lectured by an 11 year old on sex, and kids say the darnest things.
Because only the CoD crowd is against input lag. Rofl.
Interframe
Member
Yeah, yikes, I remember GTA4's input lag being real bad (on PS3, which I played on), made the game frustrating to play for me. It was hard to tell though how much of it had to do with the Eurphoria engine.
To be fair, uncharted 3's aiming issue was more awkward and a lot couldn't even tell what was wrong with it other than that it's "off" (I still don't know what was wrong with it), and it's perfectly playable because it only affected aiming and you have other things like meleeing/blindfire to make up for it, so most could easily work around it and beat the game on crushing before the patch.
I don't think it was an input lag people had issues with, it just wasn't precise.
Melchiah
Member
What I meant was, that everything doesn't have to be made according to what the mainstream likes the most at the moment, namely CoD. It just leads to everything being watered down, and having no personality of their own.
Then why don't you follow the rule?
I think I just might have played more games than you ever have. After all, my first game was Pong.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Input lag has nothing to do with that though. It's a flaw not a feature.
XOMTOR
Member
Exactly, input lag is an exact number that can be measured in ms. Killzone 2 did indeed have input lag but most people playing Killzone 2 confused it with the slow acceleration and deceleration of the analog sticks. In KZ2, the aiming reticule doesn't stop as soon as you let off the right stick; you have to anticipate and let off early or you'll overshoot your target. It's not like COD where you flick the analog sticks and it aims on a dime.
People who value games not playing like shit, whether by design or otherwise, are obviously COD freaks - I agree.
The reason developers try to avoid having input lag in their games isn't to cater to the "mainstream", it's because they don't want their game to be an unplayable piece of shit.
As someone said above me, input lag isn't a feature. It's a game crippling flaw.
Palette Swap
Member
Congrats for the dumbest post of the month. Not liking input lag = sucking at games ? Seriously ?Input lag, boo-hoo. If that's a dealbreaker for some (most) people, then the game isn't for you. Just like KZ2.
Translation: you suck at games.
UC3's problem seemed to be 'stairstep' aiming along the diagonals. Instead of, say, having the aim reticle move northeast to aim at somebody up and to the right, the reticle would momentarily move right, then up, THEN start moving normally. It was brief, but it made a huge difference, especially since the other two games had normal aiming.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
LOL! What if someone is stashing shit loads of ammo later down the game?
Well I took that statement figuratively. Like you could find enough melee weapons around to go nuts too. As for guns in all the footage I've seen the guy only gets like 4-5 bullets at most, and they don't 1 shot most enemies unless it's a headshot on normal humans. And from the looks of it they're not like tomb raider's AI where they just sit there peeking their heads out behind cover. They do a lot of shifting and moving and bobbing.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
Hmmm.
Input Lag? healing QTEs?
I'm starting to think this game isn't going to be for me. Personally, for games, realism usually has an inverse relationship with fun. And I want my games to be about fun.
I'm still interested, for now.
Input Lag? healing QTEs?
I'm starting to think this game isn't going to be for me. Personally, for games, realism usually has an inverse relationship with fun. And I want my games to be about fun.
I'm still interested, for now.
But what if the game is still fun? Do you ONLY play survival horror games?
There'd be nothing fun about another modern TPS. Tomb Raider proved that for me.
Domcorleone
Member
Where did it say QTEs? Am I reading the wrong OP?
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