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[enzo_gt]

Thanks to the folks that gave me feedback on the status of weeklies. Gonna do a big update today.

I don't know what all the fuss is about, Marvel got a patch and a bunch of hotfixes just this weekend!

Oh my god this is hilarious.

I want to play this game with Iron Man but $20 for Iron Man ain't worth it sorry. Considering picking up Cable at $10 but still kinda rubbed the wrong way by the pricing.

It begins....

Halo 5
Killer Instinct
BANJO KAZOOIE 4
FORZA 5
QUANTUM BREAK
HALO: SPARTAN ASSAULT
RYSE
FABLE 4
CRACKDOWN 3
FORTNINE
DEAD RISING 3
COD: Ghosts
BF 4
Witcher 3
Dying Light
PREY 2
Homefront 2
BGE 2
Mirror's edge 2
Rainbow 6 PATRIOTS
Brother in Arms
League of legends

Capcom Next gen lineup:

Dead Rising 3 (XB1 exclusive. Capcom Vancouver)
Dragon's Dogma 2 (PS4 exclusive, DD team doing it)
Darkstalkers Reborn (Wii-U Exclusive. Funded by Nintendo, Dimps + Ono)
Marvel Vs Capcom 4 (Both. Eighting + Capcom. Also "Expandable" and also allegedly taking advantage of Microsoft's E-Sports platform tools they gave to developers)
Megaman (both consoles, PC and done by "A very good US developer who you won't expect but would be very happy to hear is doing it")
New IP from Capcom Vancouver
New IP from Ninja Theory

edit: I got these rumors from a friend's source, I do not know where the picture originates from. I do not know if these are legit at all but the games listed has been extremely plausible judging from famousmortimer talking about a few of them. So this should be treated as a fake, I don't want people running around treating it as a prophecy cause it might turn out to be fake at the end of the day. Then again this is E3 season, what else is new?

Honestly.. this smells of bullshit.

It has hints of very likely stuff (DR3 X1, the new Halo trademark, KI, ME2 XB1, New Capcom Vancouver IP, slew of MS sequels, DD2 PS4) but then there is shit like Banjo 4, Fable IV (unless they choose this name for the MMO), Brothers In Arms, New IP from Ninja Theory, a next gen Megaman, etc. Darkstalkers Wii U could be a thing, but the strangest thing about this is that it seems like Capcom is making an exclusive game for each platform.

MvC4 using "Microsoft eSports platform" just gives a huge red flag. I hope if it is real, that "expandable" means that it will become the platform for adding characters like I wanted MvC3 to be.

Also no PGR5 makes me sad.. but it's likely coming and not on that list. At least I'm trying to believe more than I am for a MvC4..

are we all gonna start playing doa5

It's only free 2 play. Call me back when they start paying people 2 play.

Kind of random, but thank you enzo_gt for all your hard work. The FGW thread is much better than it was when I was doing the work. Now I use the thread myself for reminders about the tournaments for the week. You're the best!

no u <3

 

[K.Sabot]

Yeah, online paywall is suicide for a game that is based on addicting the player through a fostering of competitive nature.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

I suspect the SF4 2013 patch/title update/expansion is going to have a "quick to market" release after the EVO announcement. They've gotta get it out there fast to avoid the PS4 ruining their ability to push it. (A la Injustice's rapid BOMBAs..)

My prediction is 2 months after Evo.

 

[SolarPowered]

Guys, don't drag smelly shit into the house. You know how long it takes to get it off the carpet? Let's not get involved in this stupid guessing game. We'll find out everything we need to know when we get to E3.

Guilty Gear +R is pushed back : http://www.guiltygearx.com/info/#info29

Fucking hell

Then they wonder why they're irrelevant in America.

Also the thing that is even more unbelievable than MVC4 is fucking Darkstalkers exclusive on Wii U.

As if that game needed to be on LESS consoles... it ends up being on the console with the least momentum. Darkstalkers = TVC.

No matter how much Nintendo money hats Darkstalkers... it will never recoup the cost of what it could sell on PS4/Xbox One.

This will be worse than TvC. At least that game had a gigantic install base to work with.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

How much money/time does it take to develop a MOBA character? With the caveat that I know nothing about the genre it seems way cheaper to make one LoL hero than it does one DoA character.

 

[K.Sabot]

How much money/time does it take to develop a MOBA character? With the caveat that I know nothing about the genre it seems way cheaper to make one LoL hero than it does one DoA character.

A model + 4 skill particle effects/animations + coding those skills to properly work with every character in the game + minor voicework + adjusting some numbers for balance.

LoL did a new hero every 2 weeks, they've slowed down because they've worked themselves into a corner with what they can do with a new character without making the game imbalanced. They've already nerfed that game into being a boring mess.

Fighting game character = tons and tons of animations, hitbox configuring, frame data balance, medium to large amount of voice work, high definition model.

I don't have specific numbers because I'm not a gentleman of the industry, but MOBA characters definitely seem simple in comparison.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yea online has to be free, at least the basic matchmaking system. All F2P games allow free online play, that's how they hook you in.

And a fighting game character is way more difficult to create than a MOBA character.

 

[vocab]

How much money/time does it take to develop a MOBA character? With the caveat that I know nothing about the genre it seems way cheaper to make one LoL hero than it does one DoA character.

Much longer simply because valve does like hundreds of lines for voice acting. There is lines for interactions with other heroes in many situations. It's mainly the art assets that take the longest. Theres a bunch of heroes that arent in Dota 2 but are finished already from dota 1. Plus, there's no rush from Dota 2 team while LoL pumps out heroes like no tommorow.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

A model + 4 skill particle effects/animations + coding those skills to properly work with every character in the game + minor voicework + adjusting some numbers for balance.

LoL did a new hero every 2 weeks, they've slowed down because they've worked themselves into a corner with what they can do with a new character without making the game imbalanced. They've already nerfed that game into being a boring mess.

Fighting game character = tons and tons of animations, hitbox configuring, frame data balance, medium to large amount of voice work, high definition model.

I don't have specific numbers because I'm not a gentleman of the industry, but MOBA characters definitely seem simple in comparison.

Yeah I don't think the ROI is going to be very good unless the models are extremely simple like that one MMO fighting game with genderswapped ArcSys/SNK characters (LostSaga I think it was called?)

 

[Dahbomb]

Wait are we comparing LoL vs DOTA characters or LoL vs DoA (fighting game) characters?

 

[Slamtastic]

What about having characters (and everything else) purchasable, but also accessible through in game currency, gotten through dedication (grinding) and skill at the game?

Would you play X matches as another character to unlock one you wanted, or just buy them? (Not playing the game is not an option)

As of now XDZW doesn't have any real money functionality, being in beta. You earn game money by playing (resets every month), which allows you to buy characters and costumes for either 30 days (cheaper) or permanently (more expensive).

Like right now, I want to play the sword guy, so I'm grinding arcade mode as an easy to play character (shoto) to get the "money" to buy them permanently. I could rent them for 30 days now, or save up to buy them permanently.

(If I'm understanding the system correctly, based on what other players have told me, as I'm just starting out)

There are various challenges and such that give you extra "money" if you play on certain days and do certain things, etc.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think if there is a grind system then it has to be permanent purchases like with LoL. Once you unlock a character with the in game currency that's that then. That is also how HoN used to do it, I had unlocked about half of the roster before that game went completely F2P. It's a decent model but you still run into the problem of tournaments where you either have to purchase all the characters for a high price or grind on all versions of the game (which for MOBA games takes a long ass time).

They can also rotate heroes/characters on a weekly basis.

 

[Slamtastic]

Xuan Dou Zhi Wang solves the problem of tournaments by not having local multiplayer

 

[Dahbomb]

Xuan Dou Zhi Wang solves the problem of tournaments by not having local multiplayer

LOL that doesn't "solve" anything, it makes things worse.

 

[kirblar]

Piecemeal won't work as a monetization system, unfortunately.

 

[DunpealD]

I have been thinking about f2p figthers for a long time now.

I think it's a model that could work eventually. And, hell, when/if DOA5 f2p comes to the states, I'll finally play it. That's something no amount of marketing or sales could ever do. I am just not that interested to make the investment. But when something is free, I have a much easier time getting in the door. I'm much more open to trying it now.

Selling the fighters themselves is a poor decision. There needs to be a way to earn them without paying for them. It's a basic requirement of the game lol, you have to have fighters to play with and against... it's a fighting game. Bad Move.


Things they can (and should) sell

- customized colors for outfits
- Costumes
- hats, wings, rings, ect. (accessories)
- Stages
- Music
- hit effects/hit sparks (different colors)
- Custom HUDs

just to name a few off the top of my head.

The DoA5U F2P model sounds interesting. It'll be interesting to see how well it does.
While we are talking about selling models on fighters... Would it make sense to introduce an arcade styled model?

Just as an example:
The game itself is free to download with following features:
- Arcade mode with challenge active
- Full roster
- Online vs mode
- Offline vs mode
- All extra stuff can be unlocked by playing (costumes, icons, titles, etc)
- Arcade style payment with credits to play, i.e. Arcade/online mode until loss
- Separate player pools for different releases
- Latency depending matchmaking and some other particular changes for online mode like heavy punishment for rage quitting

I always read that people play different with money on the line. So this might prove to have slightly different experience depending on which release people are playing.

 

[Slamtastic]

LOL that doesn't "solve" anything, it makes things worse.

Yeah, I don't know what they intend to do with that, with the game being in beta and me not speaking Chinese.

They could add it, or they could expect people to sign in on their accounts on LAN netplay and use their owned content.

Piecemeal won't work as a monetization system, unfortunately.

What kind of piecemeal?

Characters? Yes, people will eventually own them all.

Non gameplay things like stages or hats can be made and added much faster, giving people more new pieces to buy individually as time goes on.

There's a reason the latest TF2 update was entirely cosmetic items, made by community members.

Speaking of TF2, imagine the Steam Market being integrated. You spend your days playing F2Pfighter and winning, getting ingame cosmetics as rewards for time played/winning, then you turn them into steambux and new games.

The genre has so much potential. Moreso than live local tournaments, even.

 

[onionfrog]

Xuan Dou Zhi Wang solves the problem of tournaments by not having local multiplayer

Whaaaaaat?

I don't like any of these ideas for a f2p fighter because they would all end up costing more than just buying a normal game at MSRP.

It doesn't offer anything that a traditional release + robust DLC support can't provide...

 

[FlyFaster]

Putting online vs behind a paywall would be the stupidest thing ever.

yup. defeats the entire purpose. online has to be included in the base game. It's essential.

 

[Slamtastic]

Whaaaaaat?

Sorry, forgot the Kappa

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Fighting game character = tons and tons of animations, hitbox configuring, frame data balance, medium to large amount of voice work, high definition model.

But hitbox configuring is so simple, you wouldn't need to pay anyone to do that, you could just automate it. What next, are you gonna say a new character costs something crazy like $200K to make? And for voice work you can just get the office receptionist to record a few grunts and you're done.

 

[Dahbomb]

The F2P fighter also has to be on PC, preferably on Steam. First major fighter to go this route of adopting the TF2/DOTA 2 model is going to be wildly successful.

 

[onionfrog]

But hitbox configuring is so simple, you wouldn't need to pay anyone to do that, you could just automate it. What next, are you gonna say a new character costs something crazy like $200K to make? And for voice work you can just get the office receptionist to record a few grunts and you're done.

You definitely forgot the kappa

 

[K.Sabot]

In my honest opinion the first F2P fighter that shows up for the international community has to shirk local multiplayer to be successful.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

You definitely forgot the kappa

Kappa doesn't work on neogaf

 

[FlyFaster]

The DoA5U F2P model sounds interesting. It'll be interesting to see how well it does.
While we are talking about selling models on fighters... Would it make sense to introduce an arcade styled model?

Just as an example:
The game itself is free to download with following features:
- Arcade mode with challenge active
- Full roster
- Online vs mode
- Offline vs mode
- All extra stuff can be unlocked by playing (costumes, icons, titles, etc)
- Arcade style payment with credits to play, i.e. Arcade/online mode until loss
- Separate player pools for different releases
- Latency depending matchmaking and some other particular changes for online mode like heavy punishment for rage quitting

I always read that people play different with money on the line. So this might prove to have slightly different experience depending on which release people are playing.

I've actually thought of this as well, set up a fighter like the arcades were back in the day, with online (an excellent code + excellent connection) it could potentially be no different (except for actually being there lol).

What if they did 25cents a match, Everything else is free?

Well the problem here is that even at 25 cents a match we are looking at a paltry 240 matches for $60 dollars. ( 60 / .25 = 240 ) I don't know about most people but 240 matches is like the first weekend (if that) of a new game for me. I don't see this being a viable option.

The F2P fighter also has to be on PC, preferably on Steam. First major fighter to go this route of adopting the TF2/DOTA 2 model is going to be wildly successful.

I agree. I;ve wondered if Capcom will make SF5 f2p. Talk about a low entry fee... anyone and everyone will be able to try it out. The FGC would piss and moan at first but they would eat that shit up.

 

[Dahbomb]

In my honest opinion the first F2P fighter that shows up for the international community has to shirk local multiplayer to be successful.

Yea unfortunately this is going to be the case. Much like that Chinese F2P game which has no local play.

I don't think SFV is going to be F2P. Capcom may try it with another fighting game first to test it out. I would not be shocked to see a F2P MVC game before a F2P SF game, charging like $5 to play Magneto. Better yet I think they should just do what Tecmo did and make SF4 have a F2P option.

 

[K.Sabot]

Imagine, an actual ladder rating/ranking system. Will be pretty awesome for a fighter to have, no more 112 pp players lagging / randoming me out with T.Hawk.

 

[FlyFaster]

Yea unfortunately this is going to be the case. Much like that Chinese F2P game which has no local play.

why couldn't a company add local play to a f2p game? I'm not connecting the dots here.

 

[K.Sabot]

why couldn't a company add local play to a f2p game? I'm not connecting the dots here.

Force players into their ecosystem, prevent pockets of local scene from forming a la the fighting scene today.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Just put in a stamina bar and microtransactions

Or a "premium" subscription that unlocks all chars to play

 

[Dahbomb]

why couldn't a company add local play to a f2p game? I'm not connecting the dots here.

Because they want you playing online so they can monitor you and if it has an offline version someone could hack it and have the characters be playable for all. Plus most F2P games have constant updates and patches.

DOA works because the game is at the end of its life cycle and whatever profit Tecmo could've made on the game with the retail version has already been made. They have nothing to lose with adding this new model so its a win/win for them. I am mostly talking about a game that starts out this way like that Chinese fighter.

 

[FlyFaster]

Force players into their ecosystem, prevent pockets of local scene from forming a la the fighting scene today.

Hmmm.. couldn't they just restrict the game in some other way?

Not allow you to earn in game credit, or save any progress you make?

 

[enzo_gt]

The F2P fighter also has to be on PC, preferably on Steam. First major fighter to go this route of adopting the TF2/DOTA 2 model is going to be wildly successful.

Why? PS4 as a platform and probably the X1 allow for pretty much everything you can possibly do in a PC F2P model, but on a console (which of course has a ton of advantages for the genre being a console release alone).

PS4 can do rolling betas, support F2P transactions, background updating, relaxed patching fees (possibly none, we don't know yet, but I think they wouldn't give that to indies and not big pubs), support a steady stream of updates, etc. It does everything you want to do as good as say, on Steam or in a dedicated PC client, with the bonus of being on a console which works better for casuals and TOs.

 

[DunpealD]

I've actually thought of this as well, set up a fighter like the arcades were back in the day, with online (an excellent code + excellent connection) it could potentially be no different (except for actually being there lol).

What if they did 25cents a match, Everything else is free?

Well the problem here is that even at 25 cents a match we are looking at a paltry 240 matches for $60 dollars. ( 60 / .25 = 240 ) I don't know about most people but 240 matches is like the first weekend (if that) of a new game for me. I don't see this being a viable option.

I think the fee per match is pretty much a variable and who's to say that those credits are limited to one game. Maybe one could add paid options for unlockable stuff. Offline VS matches should also be included in the credits system.

Hmmm.. couldn't they just restrict the game in some other way?

Not allow you to earn in game credit, or save any progress you make?

I don't think came credits or save progress matters to anyone who plays fighting games. So these kind of restrictions won't have a big Impact. What does have a big impact is the ability to play other people or actual content like characters.

Don't see it either how an offline F2P Fighter can work without severe restrictions.

 

[Dahbomb]

That's probably how it will start. It will start by removing Story/Arcade mode, then switch Training mode to Online only, limit what you can do offline. All the while adding new features to the Online portion so it is seen much more fruitful to play online.

It's all about control and information. The more control and information the publishers have over you the more they stand to gain. It becomes easier for them to throw online events/competitions or make changes/additions that will keep you coming back for more.

Why? PS4 as a platform and probably the X1 allow for pretty much everything you can possibly do in a PC F2P model, but on a console (which of course has a ton of advantages for the genre being a console release alone).

PS4 can do rolling betas, support F2P transactions, background updating, relaxed patching fees (possibly none, we don't know yet, but I think they wouldn't give that to indies and not big pubs), support a steady stream of updates, etc. It does everything you want to do as good as say, on Steam or in a dedicated PC client, with the bonus of being on a console which works better for casuals and TOs.

I am saying the F2P fighting game has to be on PC ON TOP of those two consoles. Its not just about what can be done on the PC but the userbase which is enormous for PC. A lot of PC gamers play F2P games, they are the demography you are poised to make the most out of.

 

[FlyFaster]

I think the fee per match is pretty much a variable and who's to say that those credits are limited to one game. Maybe one could add paid options for unlockable stuff. Offline VS matches should also be included in the credits system.



I don't think came credits or save progress matters to anyone who plays fighting games. So these kind of restrictions won't have a big Impact. What does have a big impact is the ability to play other people or actual content like characters.

Don't see it either how an offline F2P Fighter can work without severe restrictions.

You do realize that we're talking about a free to play model in which game currency or grind progress is how you'd unlock things like more fighters and whatever else right? If they took that ability away in a offline mode, all you could do is train or fight against someone locally. Everything else would be connected.

I think this would be good too since it would allow tournaments.


As far as the per match fee goes, I personally don't see it working out. Do some of the math yourself. Using numbers from fighting games I've played it wouldn't even be worth it at 5 cents a game. I'd be Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over $60.

 

[Professor Beef]

Fuck I'm hungry.

 

[Dahbomb]

Pay to play models are freakin' dumb. They should not be entertained at all. Might as well add a stamina bar to the game that limits your play by the hour unless you pay up.

 

[gutabo]

ChrisG vs Marn Poke Battle

 

[Slamtastic]

Pay to play models are freakin' dumb. They should not be entertained at all.

but Guilty Gear Xrd

 

[Dahbomb]

but Guilty Gear Xrd

What's the model of that game?

 

[Slamtastic]

What's the model of that game?

Pay to play.

100 yen per game, until you lose.

And you have to leave your house to do it too!

 

[Dahbomb]

Oh nvm then.

I was talking on consoles/PC.

 

[Stabby McSter]

Pay to play.

100 yen per game, until you lose.

And you have to leave your house to do it too!

what are those things i've never seen anything like it

 

[Slamtastic]

Oh nvm then.

I was talking on consoles/PC.

Why is it any more excusable if the location is outside your home?

I agree with you that pay per play is a terribly anti consumer business model that should be criticized, I just wish the gaming populace of Japan would wake up and agree.

 

[kick51]

what are those things i've never seen anything like it

It's some rich guy's house. he has like 200 ps3s hooked up to these monitor boxes with TE sticks built into them. When you hit the big blue button on the right, a little computerized voice says "when's marvel"

 

[Dahbomb]

Why is it any more excusable if the location is outside your home?

Because you aren't paying for the arcade cabinet. It's like gaming centers/LAN centers... they provide you with a nice gaming PC and a wide variety of games but you pay by the hour to play. If you don't play games than often, then this is fine for you but if you play a lot it's better for you if you just buy the console/PC + games yourself.

 

[Professor Beef]

Pay to play.

100 yen per game, until you lose.

And you have to leave your house to do it too!

how is the netcode

 

[SixMachine]

I personally find that having all characters available from the start would be best, since if they didn't it would be a huge logistical mess at a lot of locals. It won't be a problem if a corporation like Capcom threw a 30th SF anniversary and had everyone unlocked since it's no sweat off their back, but the FGC is largely community grown and the players are the people setting up the events for their area.

Xuandhou Zhiwang is similar to LoL in that you can unlock characters by playing more and the cosmetic stuff must be bought. It seems alright at the moment because the roster isn't too big but if it had much more characters like Marvel or Kof it would be a pain to have all the characters ready up for events.

About the tourney situation with a game like Xuandhou Zhiwang which has no offline, as mentioned above, it will get a tourney scene at Chinese esport circuits because other games like DFO have had tournaments even without an offline mode. A lot of people in NA were actually sad that DFO didn't get as much professional support (even patches and updates that Asia got months ahead took long to come over) because there were tournaments thrown for it in China and Korea and some people thought the same would happen over here. Too bad it's totally dead in a couple days.

I think the new DOA model is fine though because it feels like the f2p version is like a sample but you still have the option to buy the game as a normal retail item. One thing I hope is that balancing is done well for a model like this to work. If certain characters are more played due to availability, people will figure them out faster and also have more to say about nerfs/buffs but that would leave others out in the dark. It would also make players inclined to go to more known stronger characters rather than the maybe good/unknown characters to figure them out, since they would be making a more "safer" decision with their money on a known character than a wildcard.